The Energon Pub

[Autobot032]

I was looking at some auctions from Toynk.com and I noticed this blurb:

IF YOU DO NOT PAY
Winning bidder must complete payment within 10 days, unless you are purchasing multiple items. If payment is not received by the 14th day, you will be reported to eBay as a non-paying bidder and the item will be re-listed. We also report ALL non-paying bidders to the following 3 credit bureaus: Equifax, Experian, and Transunion. Failure to pay for your auction will show up on your credit report.

I just can't imagine that something as simple as an eBay auction could go on your credit history.

[Burn]

Well I guess it would be legal.

You are of course entering into a purchasing contract.

Frankly though I think it's going to the extreme a bit. But it goes to show how much E-Bay has evolved from an online garage sale to a shopping mall with security guards.

[Autobot032]

Well I guess it would be legal.

You are of course entering into a purchasing contract.

Frankly though I think it's going to the extreme a bit. But it goes to show how much E-Bay has evolved from an online garage sale to a shopping mall with security guards.

With their feedback being so spotty, they really have no room to talk.
Still, I guess it would keep people from screwing around with you.

[Burn]

I've come across sellers in the past who have stated in their auctions that the buyer is to leave feedback first and if you leave negative they will reciprocate. I wanted the item the guy was selling, but I was NOT going to deal with someone who had that attitude as i'm of the belief that once you post the item, the seller should be leaving feedback.

So looking at this, if I saw an auction with that i'd avoid the seller as well. Now i'm not dodgy and I have a spotless credit record and have no fears with dealing with someone like this. But while they're within their rights to do this, I see it as a form of intimidation and i'd much rather take my business elsewhere as i'm sure a lot of other casual buyers will.

So good luck to them! I hope they don't get shocked when their sales drop off.

[Autobot032]

I've come across sellers in the past who have stated in their auctions that the buyer is to leave feedback first and if you leave negative they will reciprocate. I wanted the item the guy was selling, but I was NOT going to deal with someone who had that attitude as i'm of the belief that once you post the item, the seller should be leaving feedback.

So looking at this, if I saw an auction with that i'd avoid the seller as well. Now i'm not dodgy and I have a spotless credit record and have no fears with dealing with someone like this. But while they're within their rights to do this, I see it as a form of intimidation and i'd much rather take my business elsewhere as i'm sure a lot of other casual buyers will.

So good luck to them! I hope they don't get shocked when their sales drop off.

*slow clap* Thank you. Exactly. I was floored when I read that. I had considered dealing with them and that killed any chance of that. Like you, I'm not a back out kinda guy, but I won't subject myself to a crappy seller either.

I used to be a prick in my fine print when dealing with folks. I was told how stupid I was being and when I looked at it from their point of view...I got it. Right away, I got it.

[Burn]

One other thing to, while I have no fear about this, as I believe myself to be a reliable buyer. A part of me is a bit worried that all it will take is the slightest delay in payment (caused by illness or something like that) that would prompt this guy to give you a black mark on your credit history.

Is an E-Bay transaction over a Transformer worth that? No.

[skyshadowprimus]

I was looking at some auctions from Toynk.com and I noticed this blurb:

IF YOU DO NOT PAY
Winning bidder must complete payment within 10 days, unless you are purchasing multiple items. If payment is not received by the 14th day, you will be reported to eBay as a non-paying bidder and the item will be re-listed. We also report ALL non-paying bidders to the following 3 credit bureaus: Equifax, Experian, and Transunion. Failure to pay for your auction will show up on your credit report.

I just can't imagine that something as simple as an eBay auction could go on your credit history.

Simple answer to this is NO, it has no legal standing.

The three credit reference agencies mentioned hold information on you relating to employment, income, value of property, CCJ (Count Court Judgements) and adverse credit history.

As you are entering into a purchase contract with the seller he has nothing to file with the agencies. If for any reason he does and you are based in the UK you can obtain a copy of your credit file for £2 and can request any information listed incorrectly to be removed.

Since the only way the seller could leave bad information is by lies he would open himself up to court action by you.

I think some sellers who run their business through eBay get pissed when loads of people never pay and try to scare people off with all these wild claims, like others have said, it makes them sound like cocks and puts off genuine buyers with their heavy handed and unfriendly approach.

[Cyber Bishop]

I've come across sellers in the past who have stated in their auctions that the buyer is to leave feedback first and if you leave negative they will reciprocate.

I hate this..
Good news though, I left feedback recently and they have a new policy, Sellers can not leave negative comments for buyers anymore.

[Me, Grimlock!]

Good news though, I left feedback recently and they have a new policy, Sellers can not leave negative comments for buyers anymore.

I love this new policy. But I think it's just paying buyers, isn't it? I think a seller can still leave negative feedback against a non-paying buyer.

The seller should only be able to leave positive feedback if the buyer pays within a couple of days. I'd hate to get even neutral feedback for something I paid for in a few hours. But, then again, maybe that's asking too much.

Anyway, the guy above seems to have been screwed over too many times, but you can skip him if you want. I would. I've dealt with some pricks on eBay and never bought from them. Sometimes you ask a question and get the response, "It's in the description." Even if it is and I overlooked it, that marks the seller as a definite prick. It's just as easy to give an answer as it is to type that. Last time I got that response, it *wasn't* in the description, so I told him and got the silent treatment. Will definitely not be buying from that seller in the future.

[Burn]

All E-Bay had to do was make feedback only visible once both parties had left feedback.

Far too many sellers adopted the "you leave feedback first" approach.

Instead they introduce a system which now protects dodgy buyers. No wonder this guy introduced the threats of credit reporting.

[homelessjunkeon]

As far as eBay is concerned it's the buyers they need to cater to.
Their logic is that people will always want to sell things, but you need to keep the buyers sweet in order to get them to come back.

Look at paypalsucks.com, almost all of the major problems with PP are reported by sellers. I don't blame sellers for being angry when they get the shaft, but stuff like the OP is stepping over a whole bunch of lines.

At its most basic and fundamental level a sales contract is an agreement based on mutual trust, and I should hope at least some degree of respect. When a seller tells you off the bat that they don't trust you, why should you trust them?
It's like a barman pouring a drink and pointing a gun at the punter's head just to make sure they pay for it.

I know there are a lot more poopy buyers on eBay than sellers though, just because the dispute system is weighted so completely in their favour. I've seen some cases where there is no way in hell that the seller has done anything wrong, and they've then had their PP account locked (losing no small amount of money in the process), and the buyer walked away with the item, and their money.

[Autobot032]

As far as eBay is concerned it's the buyers they need to cater to.
Their logic is that people will always want to sell things, but you need to keep the buyers sweet in order to get them to come back.

Look at paypalsucks.com, almost all of the major problems with PP are reported by sellers. I don't blame sellers for being angry when they get the shaft, but stuff like the OP is stepping over a whole bunch of lines.

At its most basic and fundamental level a sales contract is an agreement based on mutual trust, and I should hope at least some degree of respect. When a seller tells you off the bat that they don't trust you, why should you trust them?
It's like a barman pouring a drink and pointing a gun at the punter's head just to make sure they pay for it.

I know there are a lot more poopy buyers on eBay than sellers though, just because the dispute system is weighted so completely in their favour. I've seen some cases where there is no way in hell that the seller has done anything wrong, and they've then had their PP account locked (losing no small amount of money in the process), and the buyer walked away with the item, and their money.

I agree that there are plenty of buyers who are complete scum (you see the numerous feedbacks all the time.)

However, here's one thing to consider: How many sellers do the exact same thing to the buyer? I've seen that time and again where the buyer never receives their item and the seller keeps their money and even though PayPal rules in the buyer's favor, they still can't reclaim the payment for them.

I think the entire system needs an overhaul, from auctions to payments to disputes, etc.

It's sad that eBay went from something neat to do to help you find what you needed, to being a gray market with enforcers with victims on both sides.

I hate eBay for that. I really, truly do.

I miss the days where you posted an auction, the people paid, you left feedback (good or bad) and just let the chips fall where they may. How difficult is that? Seriously. Taking the simplest thing and making it into this complicated mish mash of rules that assist no one, and screw everyone was their biggest mistake.

I'm all for eBay getting their cut, because they are providing a service, but it's just out of hand. Of course we can't expect them to regulate themselves, because the house always wins.

*sighs and raises glass* To the old eBay, we hardly knew ye.

[Tekka]

No matter the overhaul it won't make a difference. It's the user base that's the problem, and always will be. The dishonest flippant characters out there will always drag it down for everyone else.

As for the credit reporting thing... I'd have to say that's more of a scare tactic than anything else. For a start they'd have to be sure they can accurately identify you, which is not always possible depending on which shipping address you decide to give them.

[Autobot032]

No matter the overhaul it won't make a difference. It's the user base that's the problem, and always will be. The dishonest flippant characters out there will always drag it down for everyone else.

As for the credit reporting thing... I'd have to say that's more of a scare tactic than anything else. For a start they'd have to be sure they can accurately identify you, which is not always possible depending on which shipping address you decide to give them.

I'd think they'd need your SSN as well. And let's be honest here...if they could get that just because you won an auction, it's high time to get the heck off the internet and never look back.

[Burn]

Would they need your SSN (or whatever government number you use)?

The husband of a work mate had a nice black mark left on his credit history by a phone company because they never received the bill (despite updating their address, the bill still went elsewhere) and as such never paid it. And I know in Australia we most certainly don't provide our Tax File Numbers to phone companies.

The only time we're forced to provide TFN's is for banking and financing. But that doesn't stop phone and other companies that don't require TFN's from reporting bad credit.

Wouldn't that be the same (or similar) for the U.S.?

[Autobot032]

Would they need your SSN (or whatever government number you use)?

The husband of a work mate had a nice black mark left on his credit history by a phone company because they never received the bill (despite updating their address, the bill still went elsewhere) and as such never paid it. And I know in Australia we most certainly don't provide our Tax File Numbers to phone companies.

The only time we're forced to provide TFN's is for banking and financing. But that doesn't stop phone and other companies that don't require TFN's from reporting bad credit.

Wouldn't that be the same (or similar) for the U.S.?

Unfortunately, no. If you want to activate cable service? SSN.
Telephone? SSN.
Something as simple as a Pre-Paid Credit Card? SSN.
Any major utility (gas, electic, etc.) requires a SSN for verification purposes.

So you're stuck giving that information out to a lot of people and just having to hope they don't do anything with it.

[Burn]

Really? Wow. That's crazy if you've got to hand over for something like a phone or cable service.

Aside from the big brother aspect, what purpose does having your SSN attached to your phone bill serve?

[Autobot032]

Really? Wow. That's crazy if you've got to hand over for something like a phone or cable service.

Aside from the big brother aspect, what purpose does having your SSN attached to your phone bill serve?

Security and credit purposes.

Security:

- Verification that you are who you claim to be. (A lot of people will exploit this potential flaw.)

- Credit history. (So they know that if you sign on, you're either an asset or a drain. (Which is why a lot of people can't get a cell phone outside of Pre-Paid services.)

- Age verification. (self explanatory, it would seem, but people have used their own children just to turn on cable.)

No one likes doing it, but if we're forced to give it, the people that need it, find no reason to abuse it. (They abuse you when the bill comes in. lol)

[Me, Grimlock!]

The only time we're forced to provide TFN's is for banking and financing. But that doesn't stop phone and other companies that don't require TFN's from reporting bad credit.

Is the TFN in Australia the same as a SSN in the States or a SIN in Canada?

[City Commander]

I'd much rather buy from a retailer (online or offline) or someone within the fandom than deal on ebay.


No matter how many good transactions I've had there, I still feel it to be a dodgy place.

[Evolution Prime]

Really? Wow. That's crazy if you've got to hand over for something like a phone or cable service.

Aside from the big brother aspect, what purpose does having your SSN attached to your phone bill serve?

One of my friends ex-wife put the phone bill in their one year olds son's name because she couldn't put in her name because she had horrible credit.

[Burn]

Really? Wow. That's crazy if you've got to hand over for something like a phone or cable service.

Aside from the big brother aspect, what purpose does having your SSN attached to your phone bill serve?

Security and credit purposes.

Security:

- Verification that you are who you claim to be. (A lot of people will exploit this potential flaw.)

- Credit history. (So they know that if you sign on, you're either an asset or a drain. (Which is why a lot of people can't get a cell phone outside of Pre-Paid services.)

- Age verification. (self explanatory, it would seem, but people have used their own children just to turn on cable.)

No one likes doing it, but if we're forced to give it, the people that need it, find no reason to abuse it. (They abuse you when the bill comes in. lol)

We just hand over our driver's license when it comes to stuff like phone's. Internet, subscription tv, we don't even do that. It's mostly the phone companies that do credit checks and that's by the driver's license.

Interesting. You learn something everyday!

The only time we're forced to provide TFN's is for banking and financing. But that doesn't stop phone and other companies that don't require TFN's from reporting bad credit.

Is the TFN in Australia the same as a SSN in the States or a SIN in Canada?

Yeah, it'll be your government issued number. Every country's different like that and considering I work for an Accountant it's quite fun sometimes learning how other countries deal with things like this.

[Proconix]

Legal? yes. Right? Depends. If you forgot thats wring. But if you really were trying to get away with something, its different. Oh well.

[TheMuffin]

Regardless, Toynk is a great place to buy stuff from. Never had a problem with them.

[Baseball Tonight]

Good news though, I left feedback recently and they have a new policy, Sellers can not leave negative comments for buyers anymore.

While sellers can't leave a "negative feedback", I believe they can still write negative comments for their buyers.

Ebay will also now remove negative feedback from buyers who get suspended for things like making threats/extortion and breaking similar policies.

Also when sellers don't get paid sellers can file an unpaid thingy and if the buyer doesn't respond to that, ebay will remove any resulting negative feedback from buyer.

Although in both cases I believe the bad comments still remain, it just won't affect your feedback score.


On the topic of Toynk, I order from them once (it was the Takara G1 Megatron reissue with binder pages). It took longer than I expected (it took 2 weeks) for it to arrive. The shipping was nice, only $5 or $6. They packaged pretty well, but it have been better.