The Energon Pub

[durkadurka]

Hey all, i'm sure this has been brought up before, but I searched and found nothing. I just got back into reading these comics because of the movie, ect ect. and I bought the TPB of Dreamwave's Generation 1, Vol 1 and 2. There seems to be an inconsistancy between the two volumes and I'm wondering what happened? Does anybody know? I'm at the end of vol 1, reading the preview to vol 2 where Optimus and Spike are on the hill and Prime gets zapped by something and falls, then I pick up vol 2, and it's something totally different with them fighting, ect. Anybody care to fill a noob in?:)

[Leonardo]

I think the official explanation is that Dreamwave weren't very good.

In all seriousness, I think it was just that they decided to rewrite volume #2 after they had already done the preview.

I do like the fact that volume #2 doesn't follow on from the preview. It leaves things a little more open. However, some of the same sense of foreboding that Prime has in the preview is carried across into volume #2, and I believe the questions raised in the preview were answered in DW's own ongoing series (after volume #2). I've never read the ongoing, though, as I can't find it and I thought the first two volumes were bad.

[Dead Metal]

Yea, the best they ever did was, the war within and Transformers vs GIJoy. The rest wasn't exactly good.

[Scaleface]

Volume 2 happens a year after volume 1 ended, I believe, the events that take place between volume 1 and 2 were not depicted, and since they closed I doubt we will ever see them.

Later on we learn that the fight in the opening of volume 2 was instigated secretly by Shockwave to make the two sides fight each other.

[JazZeke]

I wouldn't even waste money on any more of the DW comics if I were you. I did, and they weren't even worth it, largely due to the fact that the company went kaput before anything got resolved in the story.

[Glyph]

IIRC, Sarracini wrote the story one way in Vol 1, then Dreamwave (read Pat) decided they didn't like it and basically started over with Vol 2. Major events in Vol 1, like Wheeljack's death and Grimlock's defection, were glossed over with a backhanded comment in dialogue, and in general the whole series pretended that Vol 1 had never happened.

[JazZeke]

IIRC, Sarracini wrote the story one way in Vol 1, then Dreamwave (read Pat) decided they didn't like it and basically started over with Vol 2. Major events in Vol 1, like Wheeljack's death and Grimlock's defection, were glossed over with a backhanded comment in dialogue, and in general the whole series pretended that Vol 1 had never happened.

Actually I always thought that had been a pretty smart move, since vol. 1 pretty much sucked except for Sarracini's characterization of Optimus. I'm sick of broody emo Optimus like how Furman and Mick portrayed him. Tough-as-nails Optimus (like in the cartoon) is way better. Leave the second-guessing and self-doubt for Rodimus.

[Scaleface]

I found the stories and art of Dreamwave to be excellent. The only problems I had were the art in Micromasters and the fact that they didn't get to wrap the story up. It was goinf great up till then, including their characterization of Megatron as thinking he was a ruthless good guy, not a villian. He was saving Cybertron from the evil council of elders who were keeping the population in the dark about their history.

[Duke of Luns]

IIRC, Sarracini wrote the story one way in Vol 1, then Dreamwave (read Pat) decided they didn't like it and basically started over with Vol 2. Major events in Vol 1, like Wheeljack's death and Grimlock's defection, were glossed over with a backhanded comment in dialogue, and in general the whole series pretended that Vol 1 had never happened.

As well as Kickback's and Blitzwing's single panel appearance in either #1 or #2, which was also glossed over. A single panel is nothing, so that's easily forgotten, but one big huge continuity gap that they never even attempted to rectify was Red Alert.

Red Alert appears with the bots in Canada to fight the virus in several panels, has dialog, and even gets his arm shot off. In Vol. 2 however it's revealed he never even left Cybertron! I just find that lack of continuity amusing.

[HollyW00d]

I'm surprised that so many people bash the Dreamwave comics. I think they had some of the best artwork to date, much batter than most of the IDW comics. The stories may not have been to your likings, but I enjoyed most of them.

Also, thinking about the old Dreamwave comics makes me think of getting ripped off from seibertron.com when I ordered some Dreamwave items from the store, back when it was still around. I was one of the poor fellows who never got a refund.

[Judge Deliberata]

Continuity problems (and Micromasters) aside, I too enjoyed most of DW's work, such as how the triple changers were a successful experiment of Shockwave's, and making Sunstorm a force to be reckoned with. I felt that it was really starting to hit its stride when it all went kablooey; we got a brief glimpse of Unicron, the Starscream/Megatron/Shockwave dynamic was beginning, Wreck-Gar, being stabbed by Megs, would be entering the fray at some point, as would Cyclonus and Scourge. Not to mention they foreshadowed Galvatron. I hope against hope that the story can some day be continued.

Also, it gets bonus points for showing off Reflector a bit, as well as for that scene in vol.2 where Thundercracker and Skywarp are kicking back and relaxing, which was awesome. Those two don't get many moments where they're not fighting, and I was glad to see that.

[JazZeke]

Don't get me wrong, the DW comics had their strong points. Mick was excellent in character portrayal, and in some instances the individual issues were a bit more substantial than their IDW "-Ation" couterparts.

But since the stories were never resolved I wouldn't recommend paying money for loose ends like those of us who were buying them at the time did. And Micromasters was pure trash.

[Scaleface]

IIRC, Sarracini wrote the story one way in Vol 1, then Dreamwave (read Pat) decided they didn't like it and basically started over with Vol 2. Major events in Vol 1, like Wheeljack's death and Grimlock's defection, were glossed over with a backhanded comment in dialogue, and in general the whole series pretended that Vol 1 had never happened.

As well as Kickback's and Blitzwing's single panel appearance in either #1 or #2, which was also glossed over. A single panel is nothing, so that's easily forgotten, but one big huge continuity gap that they never even attempted to rectify was Red Alert.

Red Alert appears with the bots in Canada to fight the virus in several panels, has dialog, and even gets his arm shot off. In Vol. 2 however it's revealed he never even left Cybertron! I just find that lack of continuity amusing.

I think the Dreamwave web site would later imply the entire first volume was a story being told to Daniel as a bedtime story, and any mistakes in continuity were just his imagination running wild. The basic events happened, but it wasn't EXACTLY what we saw.

While we are counting errors - there were some problems with Blitzwing's appearances in War Within, where they showed him triple changing, but later stories woud say he didn't become a triple changer until much later in an experiment by Shockwave.

[Sunstar]

I have the set of Dreamwave comics aside of the summer specials... I am looking still and I think the artwork is inspring.

[Spazicon]

The DW releases were all around decent, but there are some things I have issues with, especially with the War Within titles.

Like for instance, the supposed "Cybertonian forms" for alot of the transformers whom have yet to appaer with one in any comic, or cartoon, have very little, if not ANY big differences from their future Earth modes. It was damned silly. I was seriously peeved at the Constructicons. Oh boy. They looked almopst IDENTICAL to who they would eventually look on Earth. Lazy design, seriously.

[Leonardo]

I thought the artwork of the first two volumes was terrible. The volume #1 preview and issue #1 were okay, but after that it descended into sub-standard quality. Sometimes this was to do with forced perspective, but sometimes Lee's lines were just wonky and geometrically incorrect. Prime's cab mode in issue #6 (or #5) of volume 1 is a good example. As is issue #4 of volume #2.

As for the story, not only did I think Mick's "War and Peace" to be one of the worst written pieces of TF fiction ever, I actually consider it one of the worst exercises in comic book history to date.

[durkadurka]

well, aren't we just one big bundle of happy feelings today!

[Calvatron]

As much as i loved the plot ideas. (megs return/starscream, Cyclyonus and Galvatron. And as much as i loved where they were going, in retrospect the continuity problems were a serious fault. When i first read them, I thought that it was simply an epic tale and i was still missing a lot of details. But after it stopped, I look back and see that, no it wasn't that i was missing information, the details just don't sink up. Like Scourge reactivating soundwave almost four million years after Jetfire trapped him in a escape pod, and his eventual discovery on modern day earth. I thought that i was missing something, like he escpaped went to cybertron, then found shockwave, then escaped again to earth to conclude his chain of actions. But no, just an unfixable mistake, one of many. It was entirely people running with their ideas, with noone checking to make sure thing corroberatted even loosely. I'm much happier with Simon running now. He doesn't give me a head ache the same way, especially because his puzzles are actually solvable, not mistakes.

[Spazicon]

After reviewing War Within once more, several more Cybertronian forms bug the hell out of me.

Springer (why the hell does he have a Helicopter form pre-Earth?)
Devastator and the Constructicons (I already said them. It's silly to think they already had Constriction-type vehicle modes PRE-EARTH)
Dinobots (speficly, Swoop, who looks almost identical to his Earth mode. Whata re you thinking, Pat?)

I mean, you downplay a whole MAJOR thing with the Transformers if you ignore the whole "going to earth, taking on forms of earth based vehicles and eletronics" if they look JUST as they do then, in Pre-Earth comics. A VERY vad mark in my book. Then, characters like "Ratbat" big me to. Why would his name be of earth creatures pre-earth? Wasnt any knowledge of earth non-existant? I unno, I would have handled the story ALOT differently (and better).

[Leonardo]

After reviewing War Within once more, several more Cybertronian forms bug the hell out of me.

Springer (why the hell does he have a Helicopter form pre-Earth?)
Devastator and the Constructicons (I already said them. It's silly to think they already had Constriction-type vehicle modes PRE-EARTH)
Dinobots (speficly, Swoop, who looks almost identical to his Earth mode. Whata re you thinking, Pat?)

I mean, you downplay a whole MAJOR thing with the Transformers if you ignore the whole "going to earth, taking on forms of earth based vehicles and eletronics" if they look JUST as they do then, in Pre-Earth comics. A VERY vad mark in my book. Then, characters like "Ratbat" big me to. Why would his name be of earth creatures pre-earth? Wasnt any knowledge of earth non-existant? I unno, I would have handled the story ALOT differently (and better).

Construction vehicles make sense to me, as they'd still have to build things on Cybertron. I can't remember off-hand the specific designs, though, so I can't say how different the Cybertronian modes were from Earth modes. Then again, why do any of the Cybertronian vehicles have canopies and cockpits, when there's no-one to fit inside them? Surely they'd only work on planets like Nebulos?

As for names, one has to remember that the TF's won't be talking in English. They'll be talking in Cybertronian, so when they refer to "Bumblebee", there's no denotation of an actual bumblebee. Their names on Earth are probably the closest equivalent to the Cybertronian, or maybe when they arrive on Earth, they just pick entirely new names because humans can't pronounce Cybertronian words.

[Dagon]

My DW comic question deals with some of the faction rosters in the WWI vol. 2 TPB. They show Catilla and Grotesque and I think one other Autobot on the rosters of the Predacons and Ultracons. Suppose my question is why? Or was this going to be something explained in WW vol.3?

[JazZeke]

My DW comic question deals with some of the faction rosters in the WWI vol. 2 TPB. They show Catilla and Grotesque and I think one other Autobot on the rosters of the Predacons and Ultracons. Suppose my question is why? Or was this going to be something explained in WW vol.3?

I don't know about Grotesque, but Cattilla being a Decepticon was a homage to the Marvel UK comics. Both he and Carnivac were Decepticons who defected to the Autobots, though Carnivac insisited on still being called a Decepticon. Catilla was soon afterwrad killed by the Mayhem Attack Squad, and Carnivac went BW Dinobot on them to avenge him.

[Scaleface]

After reviewing War Within once more, several more Cybertronian forms bug the hell out of me.

Springer (why the hell does he have a Helicopter form pre-Earth?)
Devastator and the Constructicons (I already said them. It's silly to think they already had Constriction-type vehicle modes PRE-EARTH)
Dinobots (speficly, Swoop, who looks almost identical to his Earth mode. Whata re you thinking, Pat?)

Springer always HAD a Cybertronian form. His War Within form was that he was pre-triple changer, so he only had the Helicopter.

For the Constructions - like they don't need cement trucks on Cybertron?

I think Swoop was based on his Cybertronian form in Marvel UK comics, where they showed him before coming to Earth. I liked the rest of the Dinobots.

[Dagon]

My DW comic question deals with some of the faction rosters in the WWI vol. 2 TPB. They show Catilla and Grotesque and I think one other Autobot on the rosters of the Predacons and Ultracons. Suppose my question is why? Or was this going to be something explained in WW vol.3?

I don't know about Grotesque, but Cattilla being a Decepticon was a homage to the Marvel UK comics. Both he and Carnivac were Decepticons who defected to the Autobots, though Carnivac insisited on still being called a Decepticon. Catilla was soon afterwrad killed by the Mayhem Attack Squad, and Carnivac went BW Dinobot on them to avenge him.

Makes sense. I never read the UK comics so I didn't know about that.