The Energon Pub

[MightyMagnus78]

I've been thinking about this for a while now, and although there is no obvious definitive proof there does appear to be sufficient evidence to support that theory.

I seem to remember in 'More than meets the eye part 1' it was in fact Starscream, ignoring Megatron's direct order, who 'inadvertently' awoke the Autobot's on Earth after the Decepticon's had left them there to rust in piece, after they themselves had been revived during that initial volcanic eruption.

Added to this Starscream is a constant thorn in Megatron's side. Disrupting military campaigns either consciously or subconsciously, regularly undermining Megatron's authority, in some instances even openly instigating mutiny, supporting other military coops and coupled with numerous assassination attempts, it does appear that Starscream is the perfect agent provocater.

So, could Starscream really be an Autobot sleeper agent, designed to infiltrate and destabilize the relentless Decepticon war machine?

What do you guys think?

[Nico]

I doubt it.

[Prime Riblet]

I doubt it.

Agreed. Too much of a weasel.

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

I've been thinking about this for a while now, and although there is no obvious definitive proof there does appear to be sufficient evidence to support that theory.

I seem to remember in 'More than meets the eye part 1' it was in fact Starscream, ignoring Megatron's direct order, who 'inadvertently' awoke the Autobot's on Earth after the Decepticon's had left them there to rust in piece, after they themselves had been revived during that initial volcanic eruption.

Added to this Starscream is a constant thorn in Megatron's side. Disrupting military campaigns either consciously or subconsciously, regularly undermining Megatron's authority, in some instances even openly instigating mutiny, supporting other military coops and coupled with numerous assassination attempts, it does appear that Starscream is the perfect agent provocater.

So, could Starscream really be an Autobot sleeper agent, designed to infiltrate and destabilize the relentless Decepticon war machine?

What do you guys think?

I would like you to list what you consider "sufficient evidence" and then show how its just not insubordination on Starscreams part.

So far the 2 examples dont seems to be nothing more then insubordination and far from what I would call "sufficient evidence" in support of him being a sleeper.

Particularly when you compare it to his actions in episodes "The Ultimate Doom" and "Countdown to Extinction" where his actions almost lead to the Earths destruction.

[fenrir72]

The thought did cross my mind. I wonder if having his face in one of Masterpiece Convoy's wrist com could mean something.

[Skyfire77]

I seem to remember in 'More than meets the eye part 1' it was in fact Starscream, ignoring Megatron's direct order, who 'inadvertently' awoke the Autobot's on Earth after the Decepticon's had left them there to rust in piece, after they themselves had been revived during that initial volcanic eruption.

See, it looked to me like he was trying to seal the opening, but lacked the firepower.

Added to this Starscream is a constant thorn in Megatron's side. Disrupting military campaigns either consciously or subconsciously, regularly undermining Megatron's authority, in some instances even openly instigating mutiny, supporting other military coops and coupled with numerous assassination attempts, it does appear that Starscream is the perfect agent provocater.

He may be brilliant and ambitious, but The Screamer is also petty, insubordinate, boastful, and more than a little incompetent. He wants to lead the 'Cons, with Meg's Lasercore crushed in his own hands if at all possible, but in the back of his mind he knows he can't take Megatron one-on-one. He will take advantage of a situation though.

So, could Starscream really be an Autobot sleeper agent, designed to infiltrate and destabilize the relentless Decepticon war machine?

What do you guys think?

It just seems out of character for the Autobots to try something like that, not to mention risky and, as the war rages on, ineffectual.

[fenrir72]

Speculation is all. Would a "sleeper agent" dunk the Supreme Commander Convoy into a vat of acid? In Search for Alpha trion, that incident did happen........

[JokerFC]

he seemed to enjoy blowing away Prowl,Ironhide,Brawn and Ratchet a little too much to be honest.

hes just a power hungry loon imo.

[Shadowman]

Lasercore

The word is "Spark."

Starscream can't be an Autobot. He's a power-hungry little sneak, Prime would tolerate his existence even LESS than Megatron. He isn't always getting in Megatron's way for the Autobots, he's doing it so he can usurp command of the Decepticons.

Speculation is all. Would a "sleeper agent" dunk the Supreme Commander Convoy into a vat of acid? In Search for Alpha trion, that incident did happen........

First off, Optimus Prime. Second, actually yes. Double agents often have to do insane things in order to keep cover.

[MightyMagnus78]

Lasercore

The word is "Spark."

Starscream can't be an Autobot. He's a power-hungry little sneak, Prime would tolerate his existence even LESS than Megatron. He isn't always getting in Megatron's way for the Autobots, he's doing it so he can usurp command of the Decepticons.

Speculation is all. Would a "sleeper agent" dunk the Supreme Commander Convoy into a vat of acid? In Search for Alpha trion, that incident did happen........

First off, Optimus Prime. Second, actually yes. Double agents often have to do insane things in order to keep cover.

When I wrote the original post, I was actually thinking Starscream would be more of a 'Manchurian candidate' rather than a traditional double agent. He basically thinks he's a Decepticon, so he looks like a Decepticon, he acts like a Decepticon, he thinks like a Decepticon and of course, he has all of their self-serving traits. However deep down in his subconscious he's been fundamentally altered.

[Shadowman]

When I wrote the original post, I was actually thinking Starscream would be more of a 'Manchurian candidate' rather than a traditional double agent. He basically thinks he's a Decepticon, so he looks like a Decepticon, he acts like a Decepticon, he thinks like a Decepticon and of course, he has all of their self-serving traits. However deep down in his subconscious he's been fundamentally altered.

Personality altering is a serious no-no in a group who's motto is "Freedom is the right of all sentient beings."

[fenrir72]

Convoy and OP are the same being. Please don't tell me how to address the subject as such. (unlike the Masterforce series where the characters have different story personalities,Fight Super Life Robot and Transformers are just the same)

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

Convoy and OP are the same being. Please don't tell me how to address the subject as such. (unlike the Masterforce series where the characters have different story personalities,Fight Super Life Robot and Transformers are just the same)

Actually there are some very minor differences due to translation issues.

[MightyMagnus78]

When I wrote the original post, I was actually thinking Starscream would be more of a 'Manchurian candidate' rather than a traditional double agent. He basically thinks he's a Decepticon, so he looks like a Decepticon, he acts like a Decepticon, he thinks like a Decepticon and of course, he has all of their self-serving traits. However deep down in his subconscious he's been fundamentally altered.

Personality altering is a serious no-no in a group who's motto is "Freedom is the right of all sentient beings."

Well the theory is far from perfect.

As a Scientist before the great Cybertronian war, I reckon 'Autobot' Starscream (with a little help from his mate Skyfire) could have potentially altered his own personality. He could have sacrificed himself, or at least the bot he once was, for the Autobot cause. After all, his colours are a very patriotic red, white and blue, traditional western hero colours.

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

When I wrote the original post, I was actually thinking Starscream would be more of a 'Manchurian candidate' rather than a traditional double agent. He basically thinks he's a Decepticon, so he looks like a Decepticon, he acts like a Decepticon, he thinks like a Decepticon and of course, he has all of their self-serving traits. However deep down in his subconscious he's been fundamentally altered.

Personality altering is a serious no-no in a group who's motto is "Freedom is the right of all sentient beings."

Well the theory is far from perfect.

As a Scientist before the great Cybertronian war, I reckon 'Autobot' Starscream (with a little help from his mate Skyfire) could have potentially altered his own personality. He could have sacrificed himself, or at least the bot he once was, for the Autobot cause. After all his colours are a very patriotic red, white and blue, traditional western hero colours.

"Autobot Starscream"???

And BTW, his color scheme was red blue and gray.

[fenrir72]

Thanks stovokor 2000, minute differences but still the same guy. So if Convoy is your Big Boss, you'd at least try to throw a monkey wrench in that particular episode of the acid dunking.

But, a bit of deviating, the MP Convoy figure had Starcream's face in one of Convoy's wrist coms. Is Convoy exchanging secret "wiki leaks" with old 'screamer? Okay, realm of speculation.

Maybe the Air commander is just watching over his metal behind at sabotaging Megatron's plans.

[MightyMagnus78]

When I wrote the original post, I was actually thinking Starscream would be more of a 'Manchurian candidate' rather than a traditional double agent. He basically thinks he's a Decepticon, so he looks like a Decepticon, he acts like a Decepticon, he thinks like a Decepticon and of course, he has all of their self-serving traits. However deep down in his subconscious he's been fundamentally altered.

Personality altering is a serious no-no in a group who's motto is "Freedom is the right of all sentient beings."

Well the theory is far from perfect.

As a Scientist before the great Cybertronian war, I reckon 'Autobot' Starscream (with a little help from his mate Skyfire) could have potentially altered his own personality. He could have sacrificed himself, or at least the bot he once was, for the Autobot cause. After all his colours are a very patriotic red, white and blue, traditional western hero colours.

"Autobot Starscream"???

And BTW, his color scheme was red blue and gray.

Was Starscream's true origin ever confirmed in the G1 narrative?

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

When I wrote the original post, I was actually thinking Starscream would be more of a 'Manchurian candidate' rather than a traditional double agent. He basically thinks he's a Decepticon, so he looks like a Decepticon, he acts like a Decepticon, he thinks like a Decepticon and of course, he has all of their self-serving traits. However deep down in his subconscious he's been fundamentally altered.

Personality altering is a serious no-no in a group who's motto is "Freedom is the right of all sentient beings."

Well the theory is far from perfect.

As a Scientist before the great Cybertronian war, I reckon 'Autobot' Starscream (with a little help from his mate Skyfire) could have potentially altered his own personality. He could have sacrificed himself, or at least the bot he once was, for the Autobot cause. After all his colours are a very patriotic red, white and blue, traditional western hero colours.

"Autobot Starscream"???

And BTW, his color scheme was red blue and gray.

Was Starscream's true origin ever confirmed in the G1 narrative?

What we know of his origin is very little....he was a scientist before the war.

[Shadowman]

Convoy and OP are the same being. Please don't tell me how to address the subject as such. (unlike the Masterforce series where the characters have different story personalities,Fight Super Life Robot and Transformers are just the same)

The thing is, though, when Hasbro created the character, they named him Optimus Prime.

So if Convoy is your Big Boss, you'd at least try to throw a monkey wrench in that particular episode of the acid dunking.

I already explained that he wouldn't. When an agent is undercover they have to do insane things to keep their cover. it's actually a pretty common occurrence in spy fiction.

What we know of his origin is very little....he was a scientist before the war.

Megatron offered him a seat of power, Starscream took it, then proceeded to find ways to obtain even more power. Sure, he was an Autobot at one point, probably, but then he gave that up for a seat of power so he could do some back stabbing and get an even nicer seat of power.

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

The thing is, though, when Hasbro created the character, they named him Optimus Prime.

Marvel comics.

I already explained that he wouldn't. When an agent is undercover they have to do insane things to keep their cover. it's actually a pretty common occurrence in spy fiction.

But do they go as far as Scresamer did??

Really asking, not much of a fan of spy films.

Megatron offered him a seat of power, Starscream took it, then proceeded to find ways to obtain even more power. Sure, he was an Autobot at one point, probably, but then he gave that up for a seat of power so he could do some back stabbing and get an even nicer seat of power.

I was talking about the G1 toon only.

And I wouldnt consider Screamer an autobot at any time in the G1 toon.

[Skyfire77]

Lasercore

The word is "Spark."

The term "Spark" was never once uttered in G1. Laser core, on the other hand...

"Autobot Starscream"???

Being he was built as a Seeker, I think it could be argued Starscream was always a Decepticon, he just wasn't a fighter until after he lost Skyfire.

[Shadowman]

The thing is, though, when Hasbro created the character, they named him Optimus Prime.

Marvel comics.

Let's ask Bob Budiansky :

ASM: In an issue of Marvel Age from 1984, it was stated that Jim Shooter and Denny O'Neil created the background story for The Transformers and came up with the personalities for the first 28. Jim Shooter has gone on to say that he brought you in to name all of them. Can you tell us exactly how far in the development process were you actually brought in?

Bob Budiansky: My recollection is different, but only slightly. Shooter and O'Neil came up with the backstory, that's true. I had nothing to do with that. Shooter brought me in when most of the initial names and at least some of the character profiles were rejected by Hasbro. For whatever reason, Denny declined to revise them. So, facing an imminent deadline, Shooter scoured the Marvel editorial offices looking for someone who could write at least basic English. The first few Marvel editors Shooter approached, all with more writing experience than me, wanted nothing to do with Transformers. I was probably Shooter's third or fourth choice. I turned around the revisions over a couple of days -- right before Thanksgiving of 1983 -- and Hasbro was very pleased with what I wrote. I renamed most of the characters (Optimus Prime was Denny's, Megatron was mine), and revised some character profiles.

So, Marvel, but Hasbro had the final say.

I already explained that he wouldn't. When an agent is undercover they have to do insane things to keep their cover. it's actually a pretty common occurrence in spy fiction.

But do they go as far as Scresamer did??

Really asking, not much of a fan of spy films.

"Snape Kills Dumbledore." If you know Harry Potter, you know what I mean. Splinter Cell: Double Agent offers you a similar choice.

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

The term "Spark" was never once uttered in G1. Laser core, on the other hand...

Correction.....The term "Spark" was never once uttered in the G1 toon.

It was in the comics.

Being he was built as a Seeker, I think it could be argued Starscream was always a Decepticon, he just wasn't a fighter until after he lost Skyfire.

That was my thinking.

So, Marvel, but Hasbro had the final say.

So....Hasbro did nothing but say yes or no.

Thanks for proving me right.

"Snape Kills Dumbledore." If you know Harry Potter,

Not that well really.

Doesnt he come back to life?

[Shadowman]

The term "Spark" was never once uttered in G1. Laser core, on the other hand...

It was, however, used repeatedly in Beast Wars, which takes place in the same continuity as G1 (I've heard it takes place only 300 years after), and the term "Spark" is the ONLY officially accepted concept of what makes a Transformer tick.

So, Marvel, but Hasbro had the final say.

So....Hasbro did nothing but say yes or no.

Thanks for proving me right.

Fine. Marvel, Hasbro, whatever. It still proves Optimus was an American creation.

"Snape Kills Dumbledore." If you know Harry Potter,

Not that well really.

Doesnt he come back to life?

Yes and no. Harry has an extended dialogue with him in the seventh book, after Dumbledore was killed, but it's one of those "on the edge of life and death" sort of things. In Harry Potter, except for a few extreme examples, dead people stay dead.

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

It was, however, used repeatedly in Beast Wars, which takes place in the same continuity as G1

"officially" that is true.

Yes and no. Harry has an extended dialogue with him in the seventh book, after Dumbledore was killed, but it's one of those "on the edge of life and death" sort of things. In Harry Potter, except for a few extreme examples, dead people stay dead.

Thanks for the info.