The Energon Pub

[ZenithF0RTE]

I was wondering which country produced the TF figure with better quality.

What made me think about this was the re-issue Laser Optimus Prime. I was too young to get one myself when it first came out, and despite RiD Scourge being a repaint, it just wasn't the same (in terms of colour of course).

Anyways, I saw in my local collector's shop a re-issue of Laser Optimus Prime, but it was the Japanese version.

It obviously had some noticeable differences (vacuumized metal, different stickers etc.)

But what I really want to know is: who uses the better plastic? Are they the same? Is the US version more "solid" while the Japanese version is more "rubbery"?

Also, who has the better paint application? And finally, if you had a choice, which of the two would you prefer? (assuming money is no object)

Thanks in advance to anyone with any advice!

[Burn]

For years the Japanese product was always the better version.

Plastic wise they were about the same (except for a few minor details like Galaxy Force/Cybertron Vector Prime. His sword and wings were quite rubbery in the Cybertron version but his GF counterpart was anything but). The main differences is normally in the joints and paint apps.

Japanese figures tend to have better paint apps. ie, more areas detailed and colours more accurate to the cartoon.

Same with the joints, they're often tighter in the Japanese version.

Whether that's a difference in plastics I don't know. But the Japanese figures were for the most part more robust.

And I say were because since Takara's merger with Tomy they haven't produced much in the way of TF's, and those they have, like Masterpiece Starscream, have had quality control issues Takara never had in the past.

[ZenithF0RTE]

When did Takara and Tommy merge?

What about the Transformers classics? Was there ever a Japanese release?

Or how about the Beast Wars figures? How would one rank a US BW figure compared to a Japanese BW figure?

[Flux Convoy]

And I say were because since Takara's merger with Tomy they haven't produced much in the way of TF's, and those they have, like Masterpiece Starscream, have had quality control issues Takara never had in the past.

Bull. No one remembers Reissue Predaking had production errors? Reissue Soundwave had QC issues where sometimes he had the same two hands. What about GF Soundwave with his pins not being alligned correctly so that he didn't transform correctly. These are just the few that immediately spring to mind. To make it sound like Takara always had the superior product is simply not true. Every item should be a case by case comparison.

As far as Laser Convoy goes, I only have the U.S. Scourge to compare him with, but he feels pretty quality to me. I really enjoy them both.

[Exulted Unicron]

I am a collector of the G1 reissues and I've been comparing the TFCs to the Hasbro CS figures and I've noticed a huge difference between them

The plastic is of a much superior quality compared the hasbro ones. I also noticed a much heavier use of die-cast metal on the Takara reissues compared to very little to none on the Hasbro ones.

Being a collector, I'd go Takara any day..their quality is much higher and its much less prone to fading than their hasbro counerparts

[DeathAura]

I believe i recall fellow seibertronian Alex K talking about some differences between the train bots from the Robots In Disguise series. He said that the hasbro version's front canopies/windows/windsheilds were just painted on, where the Takara version used translucent plastic instead.

I also want to add that something DOES feel different, in my opinion, between the japanese plastic versus hasbro's. Perhaps it is a small variation in the ingredients? it's hard to know for sure without actual plastic samples explained by the chemists that make them. It's like, i want to say that Takara's plastic feels.. harder. maybe more brittle? not sure. Of course, all i'm going off of here is the superlink bruticus giftset.

speaking of quality control issues, i remember people griping about superlink superion's arm or something, like it wouldn't stay on, or, the figure won't stand or something like this.

[tentagil]

Superlink Superion's problem isn't plastic quality. Its a design flaw. The chest in combined mode is held together by a very small tab. The slot for it simply isn't tight enough to hold the tab in to support the weight of the arms. Its an easy fix with nail polish or even jsut a little tap on the tab to tighten the fit.

[Tom_Servo]

I've only had the chance to directly compare the American and Japanses releases of a specific figure with RID Optimus Prime. I bought his Japanese version SUPER FIRE CONVOY online before he was released in the US. A friend of mine bought the American version. The Japanese figure is made from much nicer plastic and feels sturdier.
This might not be a fair comparison, but I think that the Japanese sound chip sounds much cooler than the American one.

[Redimus]

Given the choice, I tend to prefere the Takara offerings. On main lines, the only real difference IMO is the paint job. Hasbro's cheaper paint jobs have been a source of irritation to me for years.
Some of the other Japanese tf lines have suffered QC issues, but seeing as Hasbro dosnt offer the same products, you obviously have to buy Takara anyway.

The only exception to my Takara preference is the Alts/BTs. I find that although it may not look *quite* as nice or feel as heavy, the plactic Hasbro uses is far more practical than Takara's diecast and paint.

[Burn]

Bull. No one remembers Reissue Predaking had production errors? Reissue Soundwave had QC issues where sometimes he had the same two hands. What about GF Soundwave with his pins not being alligned correctly so that he didn't transform correctly.

Nope. Never heard of those actually.

Of course I could sprout ten times the number of problems with a Hasbro product. So even if TakaraTomy do have some QC issues, they pale in comparrison to what Hasbro puts out.

[Redimus]

Bull. No one remembers Reissue Predaking had production errors? Reissue Soundwave had QC issues where sometimes he had the same two hands. What about GF Soundwave with his pins not being alligned correctly so that he didn't transform correctly.

Nope. Never heard of those actually.

Of course I could sprout ten times the number of problems with a Hasbro product. So even if TakaraTomy do have some QC issues, they pale in comparrison to what Hasbro puts out.

In my experiance, the vast number of qc issues come from lines that only one company or the other runs. (Takara and their RMs, THSs, MP-03, and thier reissues line Hasbro and their Titaniums and reissues line).
So really, with perhaps the exception or reissues and alt/bts, this conversation is meaningless once paint app difference and the different choice of mateirals in the alts/bts has been made clear.

[tentagil]

Bull. No one remembers Reissue Predaking had production errors? Reissue Soundwave had QC issues where sometimes he had the same two hands. What about GF Soundwave with his pins not being alligned correctly so that he didn't transform correctly.

Nope. Never heard of those actually.

Of course I could sprout ten times the number of problems with a Hasbro product. So even if TakaraTomy do have some QC issues, they pale in comparrison to what Hasbro puts out.

Yeah, but part of that is because Hasbro puts out a far larger number of products then Takara as well. Hasbro produces about ten copys of each figure to every one Takara produces. Hasbro is natuarlly gonna have more QC issues simple based on how much they put out there.

And yes Takara has had lots of QC issues, people jsut tend to forget and forgive them quicker. I do tend to prefer Takara for main line stuff because they look better, but I've gotten burned a few times on Takara figures with missing parts, the wrong hands, and other issues.

RM Skywarp for instance came with two left hands. Flame Convoy was missing his tail. In both of those cases I was lucky enough to get quick replacements from the store I ordered them from (BBTS has always been good to me).

[Emperor Primacron the 1st]

Same thing with RID Scourge. The Japanese one is very sturdy, and I heard from people and on Ben's site, that the American RID version has looser knees.

[Vile MK III]

Well, I was comparing my TFC Takara Bumblebee with the Hasbro keychain reissue and the TFC on feel alot better. It's seem a bit heavyer, it kinda makes the hasbro one feel like a bootleg.

[ZenithF0RTE]

The only exception to my Takara preference is the Alts/BTs. I find that although it may not look *quite* as nice or feel as heavy, the plactic Hasbro uses is far more practical than Takara's diecast and paint.

Why do you feel that Hasbro's plastic is superior to Takara's diecast?

[Redimus]

The only exception to my Takara preference is the Alts/BTs. I find that although it may not look *quite* as nice or feel as heavy, the plactic Hasbro uses is far more practical than Takara's diecast and paint.

Why do you feel that Hasbro's plastic is superior to Takara's diecast?

Mainly cuase of the paint chipping (my bt battle ravage is rather badly chiped, partly due to traveling between home n uni sans box (my bad) but mostly due to parts scraping in transformation). On some BTs the heavy metal also makes it difficult to pose em.

[Tom_Servo]

The only exception to my Takara preference is the Alts/BTs. I find that although it may not look *quite* as nice or feel as heavy, the plactic Hasbro uses is far more practical than Takara's diecast and paint.

Why do you feel that Hasbro's plastic is superior to Takara's diecast?

The Binal Techs look much nicer and feel much more solid, but I would tend to agree that the plastic parts of Alternators are more practical. The extra weight of the meatal can make them top-heavy, and the stiffness can make transforming them slightly toughter. I can definalty say that my Alt Battle Ravage is much easier to transform than my BT Tracks.

[ZenithF0RTE]

The only exception to my Takara preference is the Alts/BTs. I find that although it may not look *quite* as nice or feel as heavy, the plactic Hasbro uses is far more practical than Takara's diecast and paint.

Why do you feel that Hasbro's plastic is superior to Takara's diecast?

The Binal Techs look much nicer and feel much more solid, but I would tend to agree that the plastic parts of Alternators are more practical. The extra weight of the meatal can make them top-heavy, and the stiffness can make transforming them slightly toughter. I can definalty say that my Alt Battle Ravage is much easier to transform than my BT Tracks.

Hmmmm. I honestly wouldn't have thought of these as reasons against Binaltech.

But I guess the general consensus is that, while Takara does make the occassional blunder in TFs, they still make the better product (with the exception of BT)

[Flux Convoy]

My basic point was that, while we all answered your basic question already, really every figure should be a case by case comparison. Sometimes one company gets it wrong, and the other will knock it out of the park. Read reviews, check picture galleries, stay informed. It's 2007, with the fandom and the internet being what they are these days, it isn't hard.

[Black Dranzer.exe]

I've learned with countless products (Beyblades, Transformers, Action figures) that Takara uses better plastics. I actually went to the trouble to buy and compare Energon Hotshots from both companies, and after some testing Takara does make a tougher product. Personally look-wise Hasbro seems to have an advantage though. Their paints seem slightly different.

[Counterpunch]

Well, I was comparing my TFC Takara Bumblebee with the Hasbro keychain reissue and the TFC on feel alot better. It's seem a bit heavyer, it kinda makes the hasbro one feel like a bootleg.

That's um, basically because it is.

At any rate. (and not pertaining to what Vile MK just said...)

Having a massive collection myself, spanning both Takara and Hasbro TFs, I have to say that there is no real difference in what either side gets.

There was a time a few years back, mainly around Armada, where Takara was offering superior paint applications when compared to the Hasbro releases.

However you want to slice it, that ended when Energon came around. Both the US release of Ironhide and Hotshot from Energon were more show accurate and awesome late line releases such as Landquake and Quickstrike proved that Hasbro could pull off the excellent paint apps once they knew there was a market for that sort of thing.

Both Hasbro and Takara have good and bad releases. There is NO noticable difference in the overall quality of the toys when the same materials are used (obviously you can't compare Binal and Alts, that's apples and oranges).

I've always felt there was an unfounded elitism based in the idea of purchasing 'Japanese' Transformers. Like I said, there was a time when Takara offered a slightly superior product, but that has long since past. Where the differences are today lie in the ability of Takara/Tomy to still release accurate, un-altered reissue pieces of G1 (and to a lesser extent, improved Beast Wars). Hasbro has the ability to provide and distribute (quite well actually) new TF products (send your applause to Hasbro for Classics people...).

More people should be happy that they have options as to where and what to buy instead of playing a passive-aggressive game of one-ups-manship, trying to insinuate that somehow one side or the other makes a better grade of plastic.

[Redimus]

However you want to slice it, that ended when Energon came around.

Possibly, but it then resurfaces in Cybertron/Galaxy Force, where a great number of the Takara versions had superior paint apps to the Hasbro version. Off the top of my head, Vector Prime and Soundwave (pluse lazorbeak) spring strait to mind. Also, (though this is a personal preference) with the odd exception (latter runs of Scourge) the charcerters who are found on the verious planets who dont initally belong to a faction dont have a faction symbol on the toy on the Japanese version. As they dont have it in the cartoon, and arnt actully cons or bots, I think it is good that Takara chose not to include their faction symbols. Hasbro on the otherhand, having to deal with 'retarded american kids (and their perants) desease' had to apply faction symbols everywhere lest they got confused.

[Counterpunch]

Possibly, but it then resurfaces in Cybertron/Galaxy Force, where a great number of the Takara versions had superior paint apps to the Hasbro version. Off the top of my head, Vector Prime and Soundwave (pluse lazorbeak) spring strait to mind. Also, (though this is a personal preference) with the odd exception (latter runs of Scourge) the charcerters who are found on the verious planets who dont initally belong to a faction dont have a faction symbol on the toy on the Japanese version. As they dont have it in the cartoon, and arnt actully cons or bots, I think it is good that Takara chose not to include their faction symbols. Hasbro on the otherhand, having to deal with 'retarded american kids (and their perants) desease' had to apply faction symbols everywhere lest they got confused.

You know, Vector Prime is an interesting point and somewhat of an anomaly. Hasbro went an entirely different route with him for no particular reason and gave American kids $20 worth of Failure. Voyager class Starscream never saw an equivilent American release (the TRU 2-pack doesn't count, that's Thrust damnit.)

But to go so far as to say 'a great number of...', I just don't see it. I had remembered hearing some people say that their Soundwave's had bad paint apps. I can't attest to that though. My Hasbro Soundwave was just fine. The only other difference I can remember was between Scourge and Flame Convoy, where FC had darker, but not-quite show accurate colors.

[Flux Convoy]

Possibly, but it then resurfaces in Cybertron/Galaxy Force, where a great number of the Takara versions had superior paint apps to the Hasbro version. Off the top of my head, Vector Prime and Soundwave (pluse lazorbeak) spring strait to mind. Also, (though this is a personal preference) with the odd exception (latter runs of Scourge) the charcerters who are found on the verious planets who dont initally belong to a faction dont have a faction symbol on the toy on the Japanese version. As they dont have it in the cartoon, and arnt actully cons or bots, I think it is good that Takara chose not to include their faction symbols. Hasbro on the otherhand, having to deal with 'retarded american kids (and their perants) desease' had to apply faction symbols everywhere lest they got confused.

You know, Vector Prime is an interesting point and somewhat of an anomaly. Hasbro went an entirely different route with him for no particular reason and gave American kids $20 worth of Failure. Voyager class Starscream never saw an equivilent American release (the TRU 2-pack doesn't count, that's Thrust damnit.)

But to go so far as to say 'a great number of...', I just don't see it. I had remembered hearing some people say that their Soundwave's had bad paint apps. I can't attest to that though. My Hasbro Soundwave was just fine. The only other difference I can remember was between Scourge and Flame Convoy, where FC had darker, but not-quite show accurate colors.

I have Flame Convoy and I can't really see a difference at all. Is there more of a "spray" on FC? Otherwise they look exactly the same to me.

[Darth Screamer]

Well you have then to compare the American beast wars 1 releases from Kenner and the Japanese released beast wars 1.

The pain and quality of the Japanese toys are far superior imho.

I perfect example is rampage. The American release is paint like crap and its joints are very loose.

The Japanese version is anime correct and the joints and over craftsmanship of the toy is better.