The Energon Pub

by **gbm** » Thu Feb 07, 2013 8:48 am

I mean, cooooooome on already with these ridiculous re-paints!!!!!

Kup/Swerve/Hoist?????

What a shame. Hoist and Trailbreaker were my fav g1 figures too....what a shame to see Hoist given such a lazy reincarnation.

by **RAcast** » Thu Feb 07, 2013 9:17 am

With the exception of the lack of crane (which is an easy Shapeways fix if it bug you that much), it's pretty spot on to the original. Definitely an awesomely well done update.

by **gbm** » Thu Feb 07, 2013 9:24 am

RAcast wrote:With the exception of the lack of crane (which is an easy Shapeways fix if it bug you that much), it's pretty spot on to the original. Definitely an awesomely well done update.

It is?

http://www.seibertron.com/transformers/ ... /439/1/16/

News Credits: 241 · by **Jelze Bunnycat** » Thu Feb 07, 2013 9:28 am

gbm wrote:
RAcast wrote:With the exception of the lack of crane (which is an easy Shapeways fix if it bug you that much), it's pretty spot on to the original. Definitely an awesomely well done update.

It is?

Yes, since the theme is Machine Wars, not G1:

Plus, the pick-up may have been forced as he may be repainted into G2 Electro. Just read the original threads, the info is all over.

by **gbm** » Thu Feb 07, 2013 9:28 am

In all fairness though, I prob would like this better, and accept it more, if it wasn't already 2 other characters. Kup and Swerve.

by **gbm** » Thu Feb 07, 2013 9:30 am

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:
gbm wrote:
RAcast wrote:With the exception of the lack of crane (which is an easy Shapeways fix if it bug you that much), it's pretty spot on to the original. Definitely an awesomely well done update.

It is?

Yes, since the theme is Machine Wars, not G1:

Plus, the pick-up may have been forced as he may be repainted into G2 Electro. Just check out the original threads.

oh really? My bad. I thought this was supposed to be a G1 Hoist.

by **RAcast** » Thu Feb 07, 2013 9:34 am

gbm wrote:oh really? My bad. I thought this was supposed to be a G1 Hoist.

Gotta keep things in perspective, my friend.

News Credits: 241 · by **Jelze Bunnycat** » Thu Feb 07, 2013 9:36 am

Technically he still is G1 Hoist, just in a new form. Machine Wars takes place after G2 supposedly, in fact this set is set after G2: Redux in the Wings Universe.

by **gbm** » Thu Feb 07, 2013 9:37 am

RAcast wrote:
gbm wrote:oh really? My bad. I thought this was supposed to be a G1 Hoist.

Gotta keep things in perspective, my friend.

Not a matter of perspective....more like a matter of "me reading the entire article next time."

News Credits: 60 · by **fenrir72** » Thu Feb 07, 2013 2:45 pm

Theres no beating the original.

by **Doubledealer93** » Thu Feb 07, 2013 2:48 pm

gbm wrote:I mean, cooooooome on already with these ridiculous re-paints!!!!!

Kup/Swerve/Hoist?????

What a shame. Hoist and Trailbreaker were my fav g1 figures too....what a shame to see Hoist given such a lazy reincarnation.

im not really disappointed im just not impressed.

by **RAcast** » Thu Feb 07, 2013 4:10 pm

gbm wrote:
RAcast wrote:
gbm wrote:oh really? My bad. I thought this was supposed to be a G1 Hoist.

Gotta keep things in perspective, my friend.

Not a matter of perspective....more like a matter of "me reading the entire article next time."

That too!

No worries, worse mistakes have been made.

by **NTESHFT** » Thu Feb 07, 2013 4:17 pm

I'm gonna pass on this. He looks cool, but since I'm not attending the Con, the price for me will be too high, especially since it's just a repaint and different head. I have much better things in mind to put that money to.....

News Credits: 11 · by **Overcracker** » Thu Feb 07, 2013 9:07 pm

Just to remind everybody. Botcon exclusives have always been and will always be repaints of existing molds. Sometimes with new head sculpts but that's it.

If you were expecting new molds out of Botcon releases you have no idea how Botcon works.

I can understand not liking the figure or being underwhelmed by it, but saying its not worth it, or a bad deal because its a repaint is just well silly. As they are all repaints. So it should not be an issue that its a repaint.

Personally, I like Machine Wars Hoist. I have no issues with it. However I'm not a fan of the Kup mold, so I hope the next reveals are a little nicer.

And yes they will be repaints.

by **Bowspearer** » Thu Feb 07, 2013 10:15 pm

RAcast wrote:With the exception of the lack of crane (which is an easy Shapeways fix if it bug you that much), it's pretty spot on to the original. Definitely an awesomely well done update.

Which to be honest is a bit like saying, "with the exception of supporting beams, it makes a pretty good building".

Overcracker wrote:Just to remind everybody. Botcon exclusives have always been and will always be repaints of existing molds. Sometimes with new head sculpts but that's it.

Which is where FP have no excuses here. They have a history of remoulding parts to make existing moulds work so there is no reason why a crane/gun couldn't have been arranged here too- especially as Hubcap is also bound to be sold at Botcon.

News Credits: 11 · by **Overcracker** » Thu Feb 07, 2013 10:34 pm

When have they remolded parts? They make new heads, but that's as far as they go. They've never added accessories to molds ever that I can remember.

by **Bowspearer** » Thu Feb 07, 2013 10:39 pm

Overcracker wrote:When have they remolded parts? They make new heads, but that's as far as they go. They've never added accessories to molds ever that I can remember.

Except that you've contradicted yourself there. Rescuplting a head is rescuplting a part of the figure. Granted this skates on the thin edge of sculpting accessories, however the crane in this case is as integral a part of the vehicle mode as the head is part of the robot mode.

Also bear in mind that head sculpting didn't originally happen either, until there was a need for it. Well now there's a need to do the same with an accessory that would form an integral part of the vehicle mode.

News Credits: 241 · by **Jelze Bunnycat** » Fri Feb 08, 2013 8:17 am

Bowspearer wrote:
Overcracker wrote:When have they remolded parts? They make new heads, but that's as far as they go. They've never added accessories to molds ever that I can remember.

Except that you've contradicted yourself there. Rescuplting a head is rescuplting a part of the figure. Granted this skates on the thin edge of sculpting accessories, however the crane in this case is as integral a part of the vehicle mode as the head is part of the robot mode.

Also bear in mind that head sculpting didn't originally happen either, until there was a need for it. Well now there's a need to do the same with an accessory that would form an integral part of the vehicle mode.

The only time a new part other than a head was made was for BotCon 2007 Thrust, he got a new set of wings and tail fins, including the VTOL fans. Thrust's wings were so radically different from the basic Seeker wings and Ramjet's, they decided that between Thrust and Dirge, Thrust should be the one getting the new parts. Now, we have the Gentei/Generations wing set for the both of them. Go figure.

What they basically do is not retool the base mold, rather they create a whole new mold for the head alone. And that's not cheap either. Since larger parts cost more to make, plus since Hoist has been a pickup before (think Universe Spychanger and the more recent GDO Legend) I can live with Hoist not having a crane assembly this time around.

Plus, G2 Electro! :DANCE:

News Credits: 402 · by **Mkall** » Fri Feb 08, 2013 11:18 am

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:
Bowspearer wrote:
Overcracker wrote:When have they remolded parts? They make new heads, but that's as far as they go. They've never added accessories to molds ever that I can remember.

Except that you've contradicted yourself there. Rescuplting a head is rescuplting a part of the figure. Granted this skates on the thin edge of sculpting accessories, however the crane in this case is as integral a part of the vehicle mode as the head is part of the robot mode.

Also bear in mind that head sculpting didn't originally happen either, until there was a need for it. Well now there's a need to do the same with an accessory that would form an integral part of the vehicle mode.

The only time a new part other than a head was made was for BotCon 2007 Thrust, he got a new set of wings and tail fins, including the VTOL fans. Thrust's wings were so radically different from the basic Seeker wings and Ramjet's, they decided that between Thrust and Dirge, Thrust should be the one getting the new parts. Now, we have the Gentei/Generations wing set for the both of them. Go figure.

Also 2005 Ratchet got a lightbar/scanner/gun thing.

I always preferred Thrust's Botcon wings to what was put out at mass retail. I actually suspect that was done intentionally, but that's a conspiracy theory for another thread.

News Credits: 11 · by **Overcracker** » Fri Feb 08, 2013 6:02 pm

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:
Bowspearer wrote:
Overcracker wrote:When have they remolded parts? They make new heads, but that's as far as they go. They've never added accessories to molds ever that I can remember.

Except that you've contradicted yourself there. Rescuplting a head is rescuplting a part of the figure. Granted this skates on the thin edge of sculpting accessories, however the crane in this case is as integral a part of the vehicle mode as the head is part of the robot mode.

Also bear in mind that head sculpting didn't originally happen either, until there was a need for it. Well now there's a need to do the same with an accessory that would form an integral part of the vehicle mode.

The only time a new part other than a head was made was for BotCon 2007 Thrust, he got a new set of wings and tail fins, including the VTOL fans. Thrust's wings were so radically different from the basic Seeker wings and Ramjet's, they decided that between Thrust and Dirge, Thrust should be the one getting the new parts. Now, we have the Gentei/Generations wing set for the both of them. Go figure.

What they basically do is not retool the base mold, rather they create a whole new mold for the head alone. And that's not cheap either. Since larger parts cost more to make, plus since Hoist has been a pickup before (think Universe Spychanger and the more recent GDO Legend) I can live with Hoist not having a crane assembly this time around.

Plus, G2 Electro!

Oh yeah, forgot about Thrust. hehe. :oops:

Anyway I don't see them making a crane for Hoist though. I just don't think he's as important as Thrust. Or see the crane as much of a defining characteristic as Thrust VTOL engines were and are.

by **Bowspearer** » Sat Feb 09, 2013 12:12 am

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:plus since Hoist has been a pickup before (think Universe Spychanger and the more recent GDO Legend) I can live with Hoist not having a crane assembly this time around.

Except that using a Legends class figure as a yardstick never works well. In fact with the exceptions of both legends class releases, Hoist has always been a tow truck.

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:Plus, G2 Electro!

Which could still happen with a custom weapon for Hoist [edit: and Hubcap]

Mkall wrote:Also 2005 Ratchet got a lightbar/scanner/gun thing.

And there's your precedent for MW Hoist having a custom made Crane/rifle. Heck you could even lengthen Armourhide's gun, remove the cyber key holder and it'd work.

Overcracker wrote:Anyway I don't see them making a crane for Hoist though.
I just don't think he's as important as Thrust.

And personally, I don't really care about the Coneheads a great deal. Just because you don't care that much about Hoist doesn't mean that others share your relative ambivalence towards the character.

Overcracker wrote:Or see the crane as much of a defining characteristic as Thrust VTOL engines were and are.

On the contrary, Hoist being a tow truck is as archetypal as Ratchet being an ambulance, regardless of how important it and the character are to you. The difference is that if the roles were reversed, I would actually respect your love of Thrust enough to at the least say nothing or even back you on voicing displeasure over a hypothetical lack of VTOL wings - rather than self-centredly taking an "oh quit yer bitchin" approach to the issue (btw that's not just directed at you). But I guess that's just me.

Honestly FP's response annoys the hell out of me. I've been waiting since 1997 for something decent to be done with the MW line and honestly, if this first offering is anything to go by - to accuse FP of laziness is an insult to lazy people.

News Credits: 241 · by **Jelze Bunnycat** » Sat Feb 09, 2013 9:04 am

Hoist hasn't always been a tow truck, or even a truck at all:

If 3rd Parties are willing to make proper accessories for the BotCon toys, power to them. After all, G1 Hoist was just that, a regular truck with a towing extension.

by **Bowspearer** » Sat Feb 09, 2013 9:37 am

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:Hoist hasn't always been a tow truck, or even a truck at all:

Complete strawman argument on your part here. Sure that guy might bear the name Hoist, but it is a distinctly different character to MW Hoist who, unlike Armada Hoist, is the same character as G1 Hoist - the actual character/figure in question here.

By your utterly fallacious reasoning here, he:

is the same as him:

or he:

is the same as him:

No fan in their right mind would attempt to make such a claim and expect it to be seen as even remotely credible, so why on earth are you trying to do so with Hoist?

News Credits: 241 · by **Jelze Bunnycat** » Sat Feb 09, 2013 9:48 am

Even with the

the joke is lost with you?

by **Bowspearer** » Sat Feb 09, 2013 10:03 am

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:Even with the the joke is lost with you?

Some of us aren't at the point of laughing about this yet. In fact some of us have been hoping that Machine Wars would get some actual love since 1997 when much like the Euro G1 stuff, it was thoroughly neglected and unlike the Euro G1 stuff which existed in a vacuum- died because of the attention BW was getting at the time. Nothing against BW, it was a fantastic series on all fronts. However some, like me, have long lamented the fact that besides tech specs making it clear that these were the G1 characters, the line got nothing in the way of a storyline.

Now it's turned into the nightmare situation of "be careful what you wish for..." on 2 fronts right now. Sure those of us with about 16 years' worth of expectations will laugh it off eventually, but forget about the wounds having time to settle. IF these 2 are any indication, the wounds haven't even finished being inflicted yet.

Seriously, too soon.