The Energon Pub

[Autobot032]

I'm conflicted, though not necessarily with the topic at hand.

I'm conflicted about whether or not this particular column was successful/good idea in the first place. On the one hand, there are clearly people responding to the original topic, but those responses are fairly limited; there are about three options: yes, I hate the internet too; no, the internet has been great for the hobby; there are good and bad aspects. To be sure, the actual responses are a little bit more nuanced than that, but they do fall into one of these three camps.

That this distribution exists isn't an issue. That any response must lie within one of these categories beforehand is the issue.

Well, that's one of the problems with the post. I don't think our opinions matter much anyway...

Part of the problem is with the topic itself. There's the element of futility that like it or not, the internet is here to stay and there is no going back. Unless you take it upon yourself to print Sears Christmas Catalogs, you're not going to see those again (I was a kid during the early-mid-90's and I only vaguely remember seeing comprehensive Christmas catalogs then). Unless you launch continuous DDOS attacks on all Transformers fan sites, general toy hobby sites, Hasbro, and eBay, you're going to get spoilers. So while complaints about the topic are valid, there really is little to nothing that any discussion or complaining will do.

Even if nothing can be done, he's still entitled to not like it, he's even entitled to voice his opinion about it. This went above and beyond that, however.

There's the relativity of the argument, that any opinion really only applies "to me"; any conclusions that I make, or that I draw in the course of the discussion are only applicable to me, because there's not really any right or wrong answer to it. Now it's fine if I can't convince you to agree with my position after a fruitful discussion, because we'll still have gained something from talking to one another. But here, where it's preordained, then we are only talking past each other, and just spewing out our own talking points.

Like I said, I don't think our opinion matters much. He says he wrote it to start discussion, and to raise questions, but it didn't work out that way. It was intentional, too. This was something that would be more suitable for a blog. Seibertron is definitely not a blog.

Then there's the issue of execution. I think it's safe to say that Mkall wanted to create a discussion through controversy--after all, he wrote, "Got an idea for Mkall to rant and rave about ... he may just do so, for better or for worse."--but controversy for the sake of controversy is just not that conducive to rational discourse. I can probably get people talking if I yelled "HEIL!" while goosestepping down Main Street, but what would be the nature of that discourse? Would it be the reasonable, rational discourse I wanted to stimulate? I don't think so.

*claps* I completely agree. He definitely started this with the intention of poking a hornet's nest with a big stick. Blurrz's post was opinion based, but he handled it correctly. He gave his point of view, laid out some facts, and never labeled anyone or called them on the carpet for liking PCC. Even if they disagreed with his point of view, he never got nasty about it. His was an excellent post. Mkall's was definitely confrontational and intentional. A lot of poking and prodding, for no good reason.

Lumping people together, as he did, wasn't a good thing to do.

I'm still mystified by the whole reviewer issue. I mean, he was basically one step away from saying "You reviewer people suck, and I hate you for it."

Forget the labels, forget the closeminded nature of the post... the "attack" on the reviewers was a bit overboard. I understand where he's coming from, because there have been some real snoozefest reviews, but wow.

So Mkall, 1) I understand that your intentions were good. 2) I hope they are better executed next time, because reasonable discourse is a rare thing these days. But 3) stop blaming the internet for your problems.

1.) I don't think so. You can get a feel for the post and tell there was some rage behind it.

2.) The execution was handled exactly as he had hoped. Don't fool yourself into thinking otherwise. And don't let him, either.

3.) Yes, yes, a thousand times yes.

[MegaDave]

If i understand correctly the oversaturation of content thats availible for you to view is ruining the experience of discovery for you.

The fact the content is there is the thing your placing blame on, your consumption and conviction to view it however cannot be held responsible.

To be honest I would have to argue the opposing point.

The internet has been the biggest and most benificial power keeping this toyline allive and allowing people all over the world enjoy it.

Lets forget for a second that the platform youve chosen to make your point on is one of the best sources of information on transformers and is reporting the very news thats ruining the experience for you personally.

As a transformers fan from the UK i would not have been able to collect, enjoy and experience transformers the way I have for the past ten years without the internet.

As well as information about new toys, the information on older toys present is invaluable. I can look on TFinfo and check what parts and weapons each toy should have, I can complete grails from my childhood on ebay and I can relive the mythos on sites like TF wiki.

As far as excitement goes, the news on the internet has got me excited about figures that I wouldnt have seen otherwise, yes I can watch reviews but that does not personally spoil the enjoyment for me.

The main problem with the way news is reported I find is that it builds up excitement of the 'Next big thing' but by the time this amazing thing materialises, there is a new thing being built up.

I would agree with your point some of the reviews are terrible, some reviewers have no showmanship personallity or any reason to keep watching the video other than your interest in the figure they have. (The ones that annoy me most are the ones lacking even the vocabulary to express anything of their feelings or opinions on the items in question, So many of them end up sounding like "so um yeah this is the figure in robot mode, its like got articulation which i guess is pretty cool and yeah um the figure looks um pretty cool." and some how spread that over a 9 minute video.) Youtube is filled with videos of this poor quality on pretty much every subject however.

I would suggest the medium of the internet is not to blame, transformers was allmost a forgotton toyline and the internet helped people relive their childhood together and contributed to the growth of the beast wars francise and lines beyond.

If perhaps you would prefer a time when you didnt know so much about transformers that it ruined the experience for you, it is entirely possible, just not to look for this information!

[Mykltron]

I find it even more exciting to find a TF months after knowing about it because the reviews and photos have helped me decide whether or not it's worth buying. I've bought figures purely on impulse without researching them and have always been disappointed by them. Knowing about it in advance heightens the pleasure of finding it because the antici...




















...pation makes it more intense.




It's like foreplay.

[Counterpunch]

Can't say I agree with my Canadian buddy on this one...

I have two brief, but entirely relevant points to this end.

1. The internet has led to literally every one of my TF based friendships.

2. The internet has connected the east and west in terms of information, history, and trade where the hobby is concerned. This trumps any possible spoiling or boredom brought on by info-overload.

To me, this is the end of the discussion. These two things; the creation of the community and the advancement of the information/buying market are so fundamentally important to the discussion of whether the internet is a positive or negative factor in the hobby that they override all other points and make the matter moot.

Further questions on the matter may be addressed to moot@4chan.OMG

[El Duque]

I would say the internet has revolutionized Transformers, not ruined it.

[dguastel]

Of course that's only if we wanted to do the research. I'm going to let you reviewers in on a secret: most of you aren't as exciting as you think you are. Do a funny accent, wear a hat, have the transformer fight a cat! Just do something to make people think they're doing more than watching a lecture. I will give money to the first person to review an upcoming figure(s) in the style of a rock ballad. I had a professor walk into a class of 300 and said "My name is Dr. Viminitz. Don't call me Doctor. You can call me Paul. I also respond to 'Hey Asshole!'" That made this class on elementary logic the most entertaining course of the year. You can inform AND be entertaining at the same time. Work with it.

Everyone has made good points and it appears that MOST disagree with this column, although, I realize that there is probably bias (people who agreed and liked it may not have commented for that reason). I have, more or less, said my peace in a previous post, but I would also like to add something regarding the comment above on reviewers..... I am a reviewer on YouTube and I know and realize that I may be one of the most monotone, boring reviewers out there. But to be quite honest and maybe even selfish, I do reviews because I ENJOY doing them, if that may be the only reason. I have had many subscribers tell me that they really enjoy watching my videos. Its not that I could care less about what people think of my videos, I do care, but I really do them for my own personal enjoyment. The fact that other people watch and enjoy my reviews is only an added perk. If you don't like them and think they are boring, then don't watch them. Nobody is twisting your arm to watch them.

[Jazz-1982]

Our Transformers experience has changed, forever, due to the internet.

I hear you about the negatives of no surprises at the stores anymore, but for many people the negatives for you, are huge positives.

Being able to get almost any Transformer you want, albeit at a high price sometimes,
Custom add ons/figures that were never made/going to be made by the toy companies (Arcee for example),
The chance to get things cheaper if you shop around,
The ability to budget how much you are going to spend on Transformers and when, based on the release schedule,
Availability of Transformers products from every country in the world.
Reviews of figures to help you decide if it's one you definitely want to buy or not.
Community!! Finally we can chat to people the world over about anything and everything Transformers!!

I also miss the surprise factor in shops but not the feeling of seeing pictures of Transformers from Japan and America when I was young knowing that those figures would never be available in the UK and I had no way of getting them. Those days are over and good riddance!!

[Flux Convoy]

For me, the internet has only enhanced my enjoyment of the brand and helped me make better informed buying decisions. That helps me get the most enjoyment I can from anything I'm willing to throw money at. I like seeing the differences in other countries and basing my decisions around that. The only real negative I see is the fandom in general. The entitlement, the self-righteous justification for being an absolute asshat. That alone can destroy how much I like talking about new figures or feeling a sense of community. Did mother never tell these people to not say anything if they didn't have anything nice to say? Some people shouldn't be allowed to speak at all, much less use the internet to tell the world what they think. I do miss the optimism that seems to have been trampled to death under the deluge of movie converts and "true fans". What happened to them? Did they give up trying to have a discussion and be heard when everything was thrown back at them? I know I did. For a good long while. What brings me back time and again is the good friends I've made through attending Botcon. As much as I like the movies for what they're meant to be, I can not wait for a time when that era has ended. The overt negativity has gotta go.

[Random]

I have to agree with others as far as finding figures that I would not have found without the Net. Some other things kind of off topic though:

If a Chinese or Vietnamese factory worker wanted to steal and sell off the protos, he could find a buyer, with or without the internet. Do you think TF prototypes never sold illegally, before the internet?

What about bootlegs and knockoffs leading Hasbro to put rubsigns on their toys and mentioning it in the instruction manuals?

Wonder how much those protos would have went for back then. Kinda strange to think of pricing now without Ebay in mind.

Also, I wasn't aware there was an actual marketing reason for the rubsigns. I just remember the commercial when they first came out. Did Hasbro trademark them, therefore, making any TF figure after they were introduced a knockoff?

[Jazz-1982]

For me, the internet has only enhanced my enjoyment of the brand and helped me make better informed buying decisions. That helps me get the most enjoyment I can from anything I'm willing to throw money at. I like seeing the differences in other countries and basing my decisions around that. The only real negative I see is the fandom in general. The entitlement, the self-righteous justification for being an absolute asshat. That alone can destroy how much I like talking about new figures or feeling a sense of community. Did mother never tell these people to not say anything if they didn't have anything nice to say? Some people shouldn't be allowed to speak at all, much less use the internet to tell the world what they think. I do miss the optimism that seems to have been trampled to death under the deluge of movie converts and "true fans". What happened to them? Did they give up trying to have a discussion and be heard when everything was thrown back at them? I know I did. For a good long while. What brings me back time and again is the good friends I've made through attending Botcon. As much as I like the movies for what they're meant to be, I can not wait for a time when that era has ended. The overt negativity has gotta go.

I concur. Some fans do need to take it down a notch. While most of the chat about figures/the movies is great (good ideas, shared opinions/good natured debate) Everybody has had a figure whose paint job they didn't like or whose head was shaped badly and I myself have complained several times but some people just complain too much about everything which really puts me off my hobby.

As for the movies. They are what they are. I don't love them but I do like them. I'm really happy that our beloved Transformers have been re-introduced to a new generation and that they are back on the big screen and at the top of the toy charts. Their current popularity is certainly helping to increase the number of cool new toys we get exponentially so we shouldn't complain (except to say that Michael Bay did a crap job with Devastator, the twins were as bad as Jar Jar Binks and has too many grey/silver Transformers that just look the same

[Duke of Luns]

Ok, I'll agree that the Internet has somewhat diluted the joy of finding a brand new figure you never knew existed on store shelves. Fortuneately sometimes I do miss something, and every once in a while I get that feeling.

However, I think my joy comes from that unexpected find, be it on the internet, or in person. If not for Seibertron's gallery, I would not have known about ROTF Tankor. A measly, paltry figure for some, but a pleasant and welcome surprise for me. So I looked for him, found him, bought it, and I love the little figure.

Animated Arcee. The pain, the pain of it all. Looking(or having my brother look) at TRU for probably literally months on end for the figure. One day I walked into TRU, not expecting to find the figure, kept my eye specifically away from that area of pegs as I scanned through the ROTF stuff, then I pan over to the Animated pegs....and there she was. Truly, an awsome experience. The internet tipped me off a bit early in my search, but in the end, it was well worth it. Of course she's got those blasted stressed thumbs, but still...

Finally, if not for the internet, I probably would not have gained knowledge that made me appreciate Transformers even more. The TF Wiki is such an awsome thing, could spend an entire day there and learn something new, and of course were it not for scanlations of Manga, Guiltor would be an unknown quantity. Then of course there's Transformers Mosaic. I am an avid supporter of the project, and have even written a few pieces. Whether their good or not is up to the eye of the beholder, but who knows, maybe(though doubtfully) I've inspired someone, brought someone into the fold, or at the very least inspired a new appreciation for a character.

[Optimum Supreme]

The internet is like a bigger, better informed version of the old school playground.

[Counterpunch]

The internet is like a bigger, better informed version of the old school playground.

Unfortunately, there's still the same kids who eat the sand.

[The Legend]

It sounds like TF fansites like Seibertron ruined Transformers for you. You don't need to read the news here or browse the forums or view the galleries, you choose to, really, you're ruining Transformers for yourself.
Not sure why you are cursing your ability to buy superior products either. It prevents you wasting your money on crap you don't like out of package and forces HasTakomy to up their game.

[Cobalt Prime]

OOH! OOH!

I know! To make the video reviews more interesting, the reviewer could do it against a funky psychedelic background ( like the oil on water effect at a Moody Blues concert ). He could wear colorful sock puppets on both hands (which would make Transforming the figure difficult, but that in itself might add to the hilarity factor) and provide a voice and a name for each-Herbert and Sherbert or some such. The reviewer could carry out the entire review in a silly, high-pitched voice like someone from Monty Python while lively banjo or ragtime music plays in the background...

Yeah, I'm being facetious.

The point is, I only care about one thing when watching a video review-the figure in question. The reviewer, his voice, his home decor, his cat walking by in the background etc all fade into a background hiss as I focus in on the reason that I clicked the link in the first place-the figure! I can forgive the lack of jaunty presentation in view of the fact that someone is kind enough to share that new figure experience with all of us. And that's my two cents on that.

As for the internet's detrimental effects on TFs, well, at the risk of being kicked in the nads, I'm going to have to side with the "it's been a benefit" camp on this one.

Do you remember those wonderful full color fold-out booklets we used to get with our G-1 bots that showed EACH and EVERY bot in an upcoming wave complete with a convenient checklist? Unfortunately, those days are past; I wouldn't use the current "catalog" offering for a bookmark or a coaster such is it's worthlessness. The internet has effectively taken the place of my beloved booklets in a huge way. No more do I have to squint at tiny possibly prototype mock-up photos; I can see the figure from every possible angle now, thanks to the galleries. I have a rough idea when to start hitting the stores thanks to the sightings section. I know how many new items are being released in a single wave thanks to the comprehensive info offered here.

And I have a community of fellow fans to talk to in depth about TFs. Do you remember how darn tough it was to find other people who were into TFs back before the internet? I mean, sure there was the occasional guys you would meet in the comic book store or in the isles at TRU, but that was just peanuts compared to what we have here.

As to your point, Mkall, I can kinda see where you are coming from in that the internet has so darn much to offer in terms of TFs that info overload is imminent if one doesn't have their filters turned on. I basically worked out a long time ago when I crashed my credit card on toys that one can't have everything TF that comes out (believe me, I tried!). Would I love to have a FP Magnus armor set or a FP trailer for classics Prime? You betcha, but for what those cost, I could buy several of the off-the-shelf figs in an upcoming wave. So budgetary concerns dictate (and I do not mean to imply that this is your situation) that I just gloss over those sections containing things I'm not likely to buy and focus on the areas that more pertain to me. And that's a huge point and a major benefit of the internet in terms of TFs- there is something here for everyone-not just the old timers, not just the newbies or movie fans or customizers or 3rd party fans etc, etc, but everyone.

[Lapse Of Reason]

Mkall - great topic! Truly meant to inspire debate and discussion - with a dry sense of humor added to the mix.

Despite the exaggerations you make, I do recognize your main points. But times have changed for us. We are older. Information is out there now. Ignorance may or may not be bliss, depending on who you ask. Sure, the excitement and rush of finding a new toy in the toy aisle was a blast. I give you that. Personally I like knowing what is coming up next. I don't always watch the ham-handed reviews and such, but I like knowing about upcoming Masterpiece, Generations, etc... figures.

The best thing the Internet has done for Transformers is unite the fans. Here I am. Here we all are, adults (mostly) discussing a hobby that we enjoy. I don't have many friends that are into Transformers collecting as much as me, but I can discuss the hobby and toys with online friends and for that the Internet has been one of the best parts of the hobby to me. Come to think of it, I spend more time reading and discussing Transformers than I do actually "playing" with my toys

I also have a lot of those cool toys because of the internet. About half of my collection could not be purchased at a retail US store.

[3.8TransAM]

Damn I'm a hard core G1'er and this topic makes me laugh.

I think more than anything and what we all share regardless of what version or generation of Transformers we like, something has been lost in the effect to the sense of awe and wonderment we used to get as children when we first opened the Sears catalog. I'm sure this place is about split 50/50 for people who remember them and those two young to know what I'm talking about.

I will admit that part of it does suck.

The only things that mean much to me in Transformer's land are G1 and related lines like the Classic's or Generation's now and the Masterpiece line, that I won't lie about.

Begrudgingly I have to even accept the Bay movies as bad as I think they are for part of what's keeping the line going now and into the future.

Same thing goes for Beast Wars(while I have come to like the show the figures dont do anything for me), Machine Wars, the Unicron Trilogy, TFA(cant stand the look of the figures) and now Transformers:Prime(undecided as of yet, have to see more).

On the flip side, the internet has let me piece together all of G1 continuity, here in the US and in Japan as well. Also lets me get reissues or old figures that would otherwise be hard to come by here.

So it's just a matter of perspective.

The new stuff has let us old farts keep in touch with our roots because it has kept the name and concept alive for new generations. Also makes reissues from companies a lot more common I would assume, because the name is still relevant.

So that's my 2 cents and I admit I know exactly where he is coming from since I have lived Transformers from the time it first aired and they appeared in stores.

[Skullcrunchberries]

Can't say I agree with my Canadian buddy on this one...

I have two brief, but entirely relevant points to this end.

1. The internet has led to literally every one of my TF based friendships.

2. The internet has connected the east and west in terms of information, history, and trade where the hobby is concerned. This trumps any possible spoiling or boredom brought on by info-overload.

To me, this is the end of the discussion. These two things; the creation of the community and the advancement of the information/buying market are so fundamentally important to the discussion of whether the internet is a positive or negative factor in the hobby that they override all other points and make the matter moot.

Further questions on the matter may be addressed to moot@4chan.OMG

I'm afraid I have to second this entirely.

I'm also one of the people who'll be at Target for the third time that month, expecting the disappointment I've gotten so used to only to feel a surge of excitement and my hand shoots out to grab that one Cybertron Soundwave on the back of the peg, then look around to see two others I've been looking for, then briefly wonder how I'm going to feed myself the next week but then getting it anyway. Ah, ramen, you truly are god's gift to the human race.

Personally, I think the heads-up the internet gives does MORE for the excitement. I get pumped up for months hoping to find one or two figures, and can plan and budget up to six months ahead instead of fighting the compulsion to buy Tuner Skids because he's a neat colour, only to find out later that it was really, really, awful and half to return it or deal with a crappy toy.

I think the one thing the internet has dramatically changed is the secondary market. there was once a time where you could walk into ye olde toy shoppe, or a pawn shop or a garage sale (hey, remember those?) and pay $3.50 for a Powermaster Optimus Prime that's missing one side gun because no one knew, or cared, what it was (keep in mind though, this example is a bit of an exaggeration). On the flip side, for those of us selling our toys it's fantastic, and for those of us looking for rarer things it's even better.

So yeah. It was an interesting read, buddy, but I have to respectfully disagree. If you like though, we can continue this discussion on the telegraph. My address is doot-doot-doot-dootdoot-doot-dootdoot-doot-doot.

[Prime Riblet]

If it weren't for the internet, I would not be in the hobby. I hadn't collected in literally decades, and then the 07 movie happened. It renewed my interest initially. Then I found Seibertron.com and I have been a freaking addict ever since. The internet is where I learned about all the things I missed between G1 and the 07 movie.

So, I completely disagree that the internet has ruined transformers. I wouldn't have gotten back into without the internet. That is all there is to it.

[kirbenvost]

Blurrz & Mkall, amirite?

Well anyway. While I do agree that feeling of discovering something new in-store that you never new about is wonderful and that has been largely removed for us, I think the pros of the internet far outweigh the cons. Besides, like others have stated, there is still the excitement of seeing the first images on the net...it just doesn't come with the instant gratification of buying it then and there.

I probably wouldn't own 3/4 of the figures I do if there were no internet, because I wouldn't have even known about them. Actually, the internet is responsible for getting me back into Transformers in the first place. So there's that, and now I can know what's coming out and when I need to start looking in stores, as opposed to only going to the store once in awhile and potentially missing out on awesome things.

And as CP said, there's the community aspect. This is a great place with a good community, and I think it's well worth my time to come here, not only for the information, but for the interaction with others in the hobby. I've even been able to meet a couple local people so far. That never would've happened without the internet and its forums.

This should be progressing to a logical conclusion, but I never was good at writing essays. Anyway, this has been a pretty good discussion, and while I do disagree with your opinion Mkall, I'm glad you wrote the article!

[Windsweeper]

Like everything, there's good and bad with it. Though to be honest, for me it's mostly good.

Ebay has allowed me to pick up G1 TF's I didn't have a chance to get as a kid. I'm only sorry I didn't discover Ebay a few years previous so I wouldn't have spent 70 euros a piece on the G1 reissues that Forbidden Planet charged.

I do enjoy the forums though I'm sure people get fed up of my compulsion to rant about scale now and again or getting Energon Divebomb repainted as Banzai-tron. Slag, I've done it again.

As for the third party/KO sector, I love them. Those clip on custom heads for G1 Ironhide and Ratchet enhance those toys remarkably. The KO's are great for correcting scale issues. I have an oversized G1 Bruticus, Classics Octane and Robotmasters Wingstun and Wrecker Hook that I love and would not have were it not for the internet.

On a strange note, I bought Octane and Bruticus on the net but the Robotmasters I bought in a pound shop in Cork because someone told me about them on a forum. 2 euro each and fantastic KO's. Their smaller original counterparts were nearly 20 euro each in Forbidden Planet. Wingstun makes a great buddy for Acid Storm.

Yes I do miss that feeling as a kid from walking into a toy shop but these days my lack of enthusiasm comes from the Movie and Animated aesthetics that flood the shelves. I do like most Movie toys though, usually the non cast members. Oh and things like Robot Heroes and Fast Action Battlers are awful in their own right but made worse knowing what's available in other countries that we're not getting. I suppose I can blame the net for that last one in fairness.

I do look forward to the latest mosaic or fan made piece on Youtube. The quality of most mosaics makes me miss the days of the UK comic when we got quality stories on a weekly basis for years.

The only toys that bother me when I see them on the net are the convention exclusives. At least when you see the retail stuff you know it will be reasonably priced and probably go in clearance at some point but the convention stuff is annoyingly overpriced and bound to increase. The killer is, most of them look great but I cannot justify 70euros for Leozack. I want him, he looks great but at that price, no way. I can easily afford him but spending 70euros on a 12 euro toy is almost a sin.

Overall though the net has greatly enhanced my Transformers experience. Just wish I knew why the Collector's Club never accepts my credit card details as it works fine for everything else. I'd love to become a member.