The Energon Pub

[heroic_decepticon]

i just received my Alt Mirage from Hong Kong and noticed that there is some discrepancy between the one I received and the Alt Mirages that I've seen around.

The MAIN differences lie in the box art and layout- there are NO copyright or the little 'R' symbol anywhere. I've compared the unopened toy with pics from Seibertron and TF Kenkon and don't seem to detect any difference other than the badly applied paint on the bonnet.

I emailed the seller and he/she has this to say:
'Thanks for your email, yes, the packaging is different from the auction
listing, because we used the pictures from the Hasbro US web site, (To be
honest, I didn't know there is different till I found out later), anyway,
because Hasbro offer alternators in the US and Europe market, and the
packaging had different, the toy itself are the same as the were made in the
same period, part were sent to the US in US Packaging, and part sent to
Europe.

Please let me know if you want to exchange or anything, but we only have
these version (Which by the way, is very hard to find)'

It seems that BBTS also has a shipment of such Mirages, but that presumably does not rule out the possibility that they could be KO?

' PLEASE NOTE: This item may ship with multi-lingual international packaging. It looks basically the same as what is pictured, but there will be a bit more text in places due to the multi language translations.' http://www.bigbadtoystore.com/bbts/product.aspx?product=HAS11878&mode=retail

Is this a KO or the real thing? What do you guys think?
Any help would be greatly appreciated.

***

Comparison pics below:

[The Chopnel]

I haven't seen alt. Mirage myself, but that box is similar with the alt. Optimus Prime I bought last year from a local store.

So, I'd say it's a real one, you just got an euro box.

[Deadpool.]

Could be fake.

Firstly, the boxart shouldnt be a pic of the toy itself.
And there isn't the "Warning: Choking Hazard" sign on it.
And it's "Robot to Vehicle" instead of "2 in 1".

[Leonardo]

It's possibly genuine.

U.K. and European boxes nowadays use images of the toy rather than box art because trading laws dictate that the packaging must not misrepresent the contents. Using an artist's impression, like the Dreamwave-esque style art seen in the auction pic, on the front of the box would constitute a misrepresentation under those terms because the toy inside does not actually look like that (often, box art pictures depict the character in poses not actually achievable with the toy itself). It's not the same in the U.S. but that's how it is in the U.K. and Europe, which is why the packaging you have received has a photo of the toy instead. Most toy packages now have a product photograph on the front and artistic impressions elsewhere on the box.If I recall, the U.K. Alternators boxes have Dreamwave-esque art on the bottom and sides of the packaging instead. I don't know what the laws are like in Australia or elsewhere.

As for the (R) symbol, as far as I'm aware that is only legally permitted when the trademark has been registered with the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office. Companies are allowed to freely use the 'TM' symbol regardless of whether they have actually registered the trademark with the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office (provided, of course, their TM trademark doesn't infringe upon another already-established trademark) but using the (R) symbol without having registered can compromise the company's rights to trademark (for various reasons). Since Hasbro would have to file their trademark under a different patenting office in the U.K. and Europe it is unlikely that the (R) symbol will appear on U.K. and European packaging.

[The Chopnel]

Could be fake.

Firstly, the boxart shouldnt be a pic of the toy itself.
And there isn't the "Warning: Choking Hazard" sign on it.
And it's "Robot to Vehicle" instead of "2 in 1".

As Leonardo said, euro boxes have photos instead character art. Also, euro boxes have recently replaced "robot to vehicle" with that "2 in 1" -thing.

[Sid Burn]

being a KO is highly doubtful.

As others have said, it is simply not U.S packaging.
Here in canada, packaging can be wildly different as well.

Are alt KOs even an issue? I think if I were to KO a transformer, the last line I would choose to rip off is Alts. Too complicated.

[heroic_decepticon]

Leonardo, many thanks for that detailed analysis.

I haven't seen alt. Mirage myself, but that box is similar with the alt. Optimus Prime I bought last year from a local store.

So, I'd say it's a real one, you just got an euro box.

The Chopnel, is Alt Prime the only instance of a European Alt that you've come across? Leonardo, have you seen any yourself?

Any European board member seen Europe boxed Alternators on retail there?

Are alt KOs even an issue? I think if I were to KO a transformer, the last line I would choose to rip off is Alts. Too complicated.

I'm worried cos they do indeed exist as proven by members of the other message board i frequent.
http://otca.invisionzone.com/index.php?showtopic=2941&st=20

[Leonardo]

I'm not sure if by European you're including the U.K. or just the continent but I've certainly seen U.K. packaged Alternators on store shelves for most of the line (except a U.S. Hound I saw in Cornwall). Whether there's a difference between U.K. packaging and packaging that's sold on the continent I can't confidently say.

Also, there are certainly are K.O. Alternators. I've seen a few on eBay and some board members have purchased some to kitbash into other characters (I think A.K. bought one to turn into Ratchet).

[The Chopnel]

I haven't seen alt. Mirage myself, but that box is similar with the alt. Optimus Prime I bought last year from a local store.

So, I'd say it's a real one, you just got an euro box.

The Chopnel, is Alt Prime the only instance of a European Alt that you've come across? Leonardo, have you seen any yourself?

Any European board member seen Europe boxed Alternators on retail there?

The only instance of the bubble-packaged version, yep. But earlier red-boxed ones had photos of the toy instead of artwork as well.

Anyway in my opinion, the package in your photo looks like real european TF packages do. It has the multiple languages, toy photo instead of character artwork, and that weird "2 in 1" -thing which was also in classic packages around here.

I admit I'm not very knowledgeable in the area of KOs, but I do wonder why KO makers would replicate the european box


edit: I found a photo from another board, which might be helpful. http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a264/ ... l/alts.jpg

there's european packaged alt. Decepticharge, not a best possible photo but looks to be similar.

[Dead Metal]

That is the real deal, concider ourself luck, now you know how we Europeans get our TFs!
Yep that is a European box it's all there, the toy imeage, the 2 in 1 the multiple langueges, just cheack out the flags, if you see the DE, the GB, I, E..... you have the real deal.

[Sid Burn]

Are alt KOs even an issue? I think if I were to KO a transformer, the last line I would choose to rip off is Alts. Too complicated.

I'm worried cos they do indeed exist as proven by members of the other message board i frequent.
http://otca.invisionzone.com/index.php?showtopic=2941&st=20

Scary stuff, at least the boxes are easily identified as KOs to those familiar with Alt packaging.

[heroic_decepticon]

That is the real deal, concider ourself luck, now you know how we Europeans get our TFs!
Yep that is a European box it's all there, the toy imeage, the 2 in 1 the multiple langueges, just cheack out the flags, if you see the DE, the GB, I, E..... you have the real deal.

it's nice to know that it isnt a KO. I don't really like the box though, would have preferred the one with the art.

maybe i should pop the 'item not as shown or described' to the seller...

[kirbenvost]

Most KO Alts are very easy to spot in box, and indeed in both modes, except for the KO Wheeljack and Grimlock, whose alt modes are very close to the real thing.

I'm pretty sure yours is real, but in Euro packaging like others have said. Too bad about the bad paint job though, that's always a disappointment.

I wouldn't neg the seller, he'll just neg you back. His picture didn't match exactly (sellers shouldn't use stock pics), but you did receive the right item in good conditon. You could perhaps mention it in the feedback, but the seller didn't rip you off or anything so it would be sort of unfair to give him negative feedback.

[heroic_decepticon]

Finally sorted this out.

Got a partial refund of US$33.00

Cited the reasons below:

My reasons for this amount include (1) box art is extremely important to me; (2) the US box version is what I thought I was bidding for; (3) I would not have bought it at the buy-it-now price if I knew it was a European multi-lingual box; and (4) this piece seems to have a poorer paint jpb (for the white stripes) than most other Alt Mirages I’ve seen online.

I don’t want to put you in a difficult position with this partial refund and I don’t want you to suffer a lost. If that amount is not workable for you or if you will lose money, please let me know. I remain open to the 2 options in my previous email or other alternatives.

Thank you guys for all the comments and the help. Really appreciate it!

[coolpop]

Finally sorted this out.

Got a partial refund of US$33.00

Cited the reasons below:

My reasons for this amount include (1) box art is extremely important to me; (2) the US box version is what I thought I was bidding for; (3) I would not have bought it at the buy-it-now price if I knew it was a European multi-lingual box; and (4) this piece seems to have a poorer paint jpb (for the white stripes) than most other Alt Mirages I’ve seen online.

I don’t want to put you in a difficult position with this partial refund and I don’t want you to suffer a lost. If that amount is not workable for you or if you will lose money, please let me know. I remain open to the 2 options in my previous email or other alternatives.

Thank you guys for all the comments and the help. Really appreciate it!

It was really nicely handled and a happy ending, I'm happy for you H_D. I've placed order of a multi-lingual boxed Alt. Mirage from BBTS, and I think most likely it will be the same Euro version as yours, hopefully it's paint application will be acceptable.

Cheers,
Coolpop

[City Commander]

Why the ****, when they had been produced and obviously shipped, didn't we see our **** European release of Alt Mirage!

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

I never buy any TF's from Hong Kong that I cant eazly tell is real or a KO.