The Energon Pub

Rated X wrote:Henry Ford created the automobile

No he didn't. And amusingly, in the case of Transformers, neither did Hasbro.

Hardhead is a great choice for a remold. Yes, its a pity he won't be a headmaster, but if I'm honest, I always found headmasters a slightly dodgy idea in the first place

Nah! i would have to pass on this, the ultra class version of Hard Head with Head Robots upgrade is the best so far and also, when i look or think of Hard Head, i don't see him as a Deluxe, i seen him as a Ultra class figure or maybe a voyager if he is done right! If anything to re-mold Warpath, it should be down to 2 Transformers: Either Quake or Grandslam! I can see these 2 fitting the mold, but NOT Hard Head and NOT BRAWL!!!!!!!! no movie version of Brawl and no G1 version of him either.

Hasbro, repaint him into G1 Gutcruncher and name him Sparkcrusher like you did with the Legend! Please?

Vicalliose wrote:

Rated X wrote:That would mean Hasbro actually aknowledges they have competition. Maybe it's time collectors stop using the term "Third Party" and start referring to them as legitimate Transformer companies. Were giving Hasbro way too much credit. Henry Ford created the automobile, but we dont go referring to Chevy, Buick, and Dodge as "3rd party car companies" do we ??? Basically Hasbro needs to realize that just because they were the first, doesnt make them the best.

*Ahem* You mean "changing robot companies". Anyway, you still can't precisely call them legit until they start making original characters, as apposed to homages. Hasbro acknowledges them, and they'll let the homages slide so long as they don't turn a large enough profit that they pose a threat, which is unlikely as they aim only at the collectors market.

Bingo. Has there been a true competitor to Transformers outside of GoBots?

If I'm supposed to think of these companies as true competitors to Hasbro, they are going to have to do a lot more than push out add-on sets to Hasbro toys and figures that are obvious representations of Hasbro characters.

Releasing a toy of Arcee or Springer isn't competition. It's profiting off the character of another company. If they want to compete, they should come up with their own stuff.

Wow, I had no idea people would be so sensitive about Hasbro and their "rights". Some may see them as gods or see "Mr. Hasbro" as Vector Sigma himself, but I just see them as a corparate giant who capitalized on a million dollar franchise 26 years ago. Yeah I said it. They are not the creators of the G1 characters that made this universe we all love. They are just a toy company. I credit the original artists and animators, both Japanese and American with being the creators of our obsession. Some are dead. Some are really old. Some sold their copyrights for money when the G1 toyline lost popularity after 1988. Copyrights are like stocks and bonds. They get bought and sold every day. Often by people who dont know or have anything to do with the creators. Michael Jackson owns the copyrights to all the Beatles songs. (and he's dead) Who cares who ends up with a stupid piece of paper that says "you officially own the rights to a name of something 26 years old". They can take that piece of paper, shine it up real good, turn it sideways, and stick it straight up their candy a** !!! If you choose to follow the chain of owners to the G1 franchise, it's characters names, images, etc, then more power to you. If you choose to look at a bunch of people in suits and ties with papers as supreme beings, suit yourself. My respect goes out to the original G1 production team who created the characters we love from 1984-1988. and if some of those people sold their rights or passed away, then I say the use of their creations is up for grabs. If Hasbro doesnt use it fine. But somebody else will. Thats what im saying. And those sombody elses shouldnt be referred to as "third parties". They should be refferred to by their names, because they are more dedicated to the Transformers universe than any corparate entity will ever be.

P.S. After a little research I found out it wasnt Henry Ford who created the automobile. But Henry Ford is credited with being the first person to create a company to market the automobile in mass quanity and make it affordable for the middle class. So he is very similar to Mr. Hasbro in a way. But along came Chevy, Buick, and Crysler, to offer him some good ol American compitition by giving consumers things he wasnt giving them. These companies were not called third party car companies. They were the real deal. And just like them, Fansproject, I-Gear, Impossible Toys, Headrobots, and Perfect Effect are the real deal. Pay homage to the people who respect us...the collectors.

Bullycon wrote:Has there been a true competitor to Transformers outside of GoBots?

Well, in Japan...

- Gundam
- Macross\Robotech

are both more popular than Transformers, and they contain a few toys that "morph" into stuff.

Rated X wrote:Wow, I had no idea people would be so sensitive about Hasbro and their "rights". Some may see them as gods or see "Mr. Hasbro" as Vector Sigma himself, but I just see them as a corparate giant who capitalized on a million dollar franchise 26 years ago. Yeah I said it.

How could they not, it was an unexpected success

They are not the creators of the G1 characters that made this universe we all love. They are just a toy company. I credit the original artists and animators, both Japanese and American with being the creators of our obsession. Some are dead. Some are really old.

Transformers was actually a shared property: Hasbro dealt with the toys, Marvel and Sunbow the multimedia and characters. Ultimately though, Hasbro makes every single call back in the day, and still does. How else would you explain characters being killed off in shows to make way for new product?

Some sold their copyrights for money when the G1 toyline lost popularity after 1988. Copyrights are like stocks and bonds. They get bought and sold every day. Often by people who dont know or have anything to do with the creators. Michael Jackson owns the copyrights to all the Beatles songs. (and he's dead) Who cares who ends up with a stupid piece of paper that says "you officially own the rights to a name of something 26 years old". They can take that piece of paper, shine it up real good, turn it sideways, and stick it straight up their candy a** !!! If you choose to follow the chain of owners to the G1 franchise, it's characters names, images, etc, then more power to you. If you choose to look at a bunch of people in suits and ties with papers as supreme beings, suit yourself. My respect goes out to the original G1 production team who created the characters we love from 1984-1988. and if some of those people sold their rights or passed away, then I say the use of their creations is up for grabs.

You should realise that the copyright of everything employees create for a company defaults to the company itself: Hasbro or Takara for the toys and characters, and the studios for the animations and comics. It's in the contracts.

If Hasbro doesnt use it fine. But somebody else will. Thats what im saying. And those sombody elses shouldnt be referred to as "third parties". They should be refferred to by their names, because they are more dedicated to the Transformers universe than any corparate entity will ever be.

Some companies do keep copyrights for themselves for the sake of keeping it, and preventing other companies from using it. And "dedication" is a matter of viewpoint. It's more than just catering to fans you know?

P.S. After a little research I found out it wasnt Henry Ford who created the automobile. But Henry Ford is credited with being the first person to create a company to market the automobile in mass quanity and make it affordable for the middle class. So he is very similar to Mr. Hasbro in a way. But along came Chevy, Buick, and Crysler, to offer him some good ol American compitition by giving consumers things he wasnt giving them. These companies were not called third party car companies. They were the real deal. And just like them, Fansproject, I-Gear, Impossible Toys, Headrobots, and Perfect Effect are the real deal. Pay homage to the people who respect us...the collectors.

Again, you're overlooking a detail: those companies are registered at Chambers of Commerce, which allows them to officially and legally compete with other companies. And I don't really see a sign of those Third Parties being registered anywhere on their homepages (anybody can correct me on this). Which makes them hobbyists, but still making money by "copying" (I'm using the term loosely) Intellectual Property. The fact they're just hobbyists may be another reason why Hasbro pays them no heed... for now.

Rated X wrote:Wow, I had no idea people would be so sensitive about Hasbro and their "rights". Some may see them as gods or see "Mr. Hasbro" as Vector Sigma himself, but I just see them as a corparate giant who capitalized on a million dollar franchise 26 years ago. Yeah I said it. They are not the creators of the G1 characters that made this universe we all love. They are just a toy company... If you choose to look at a bunch of people in suits and ties with papers as supreme beings, suit yourself.

Not true. Do you think it's coincidence that so many G1 characters and awesome homages get produced? That Warpath is terrifyingly G1 cartoon accurate and has his catchphrase written on him? That frickin' Straxusgot a release?

There are indeed corporate suits at Hasbro who are only thinking of maximizing profits and thinking purely about the marketability of the toys. That's fair enough, they're a corporation rather than a charity. But there are also people trying to make sure there's as much old-school fan appeal as possible. Way, way more than the percentage of figures that we buy should really accommodate for. The Classics/Universe/Generations/Reveal The Shield line is pure fan-favouritism.

You seem to be acting as if Hasbro does not have an iota of interest in the fandom. Which is patently and demonstrably not the case. This is a world where Thunderwing got a figure. And bloody Skullgrin. These figures were certainly not made because kids today were screaming for characters from 80s' comic books.

And those sombody elses shouldnt be referred to as "third parties". They should be refferred to by their names, because they are more dedicated to the Transformers universe than any corparate entity will ever be.

Really? Because Hasbro puts a hell of a lot of money and effort into Transformers. Toys, playsets, books, games, comics. I would imagine that there are designers and marketers who go home and dream about Transformers. And you can look at Derrick Wyatt's twitter, read interviews with the engineers and talk to personalities at Botcon to see how into the whole thing they are.

These companies were not called third party car companies. They were the real deal. And just like them, Fansproject, I-Gear, Impossible Toys, Headrobots, and Perfect Effect are the real deal. Pay homage to the people who respect us...the collectors.

Indeed. And when Fans Project, like Chevy, start making their own converting robot series rather than aping Transformers then they'll get my support.

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:Hasbro, repaint him into G1 Gutcruncher and name him Sparkcrusher like you did with the Legend! Please?

This would be awesome. I thought that the moment I busted Warpath open!

Not really digging that it's Hardhead. I'm pretty happy with the previous iteration. Headrobots really made that shine as well. There's those things and then there's the fact that Hardhead shouldn't really have a tank barrel protruding from his chest IMO. I'd probably get it anyway, I'd really rather have a character we haven't gotten yet though.

Still say that Quake would be awesome for this mold. Enough of taking a nice mold and getting 2 Autobots out of it, make one for the Decepticons too!

Or if they want to make an Autobot out of this mold, good god don't make it Hard Head, make someone else, like Grandslam or something.

The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of Hardhead as the retool. The alt mode fits perfectly, the head looks great, and the shoulder cannon lends itself very well to the mould.

Now, what would really make fans happy is if it wasn't just the head that got a remould, but if the missle launcher and even the chest got a remould. I picture a G1 looking shoulder cannon and a set of doors or flaps that cover up the turret to make a solid chest. They've done extra stuff like that in the past for Blurr and the up coming Black Shadow so who knows, maybe then fans would flip for an even closer to perfection version of Hardhead.

Depending on how the colors look, I may get this.

Regarding all the 3rd party discussion... I hope Hasbro/Takara simply watches the 3rd parties to see what characters there is a good demand for, and makes an official release. (Thinking of Reflector, Insecticons, Arcee, etc.)

gothsaurus wrote:Regarding all the 3rd party discussion... I hope Hasbro/Takara simply watches the 3rd parties to see what characters there is a good demand for, and makes an official release. (Thinking of Reflector, Insecticons, Arcee, etc.)

I wouldn't hold your breath. Reflector we are supposedly getting, but it's merely a retool of Perceptor. I also think that of we were going to get a classics Arcee, we already would have. I think the movie Arcee and the upcoming TF: Prime Arcee will be the only ones we will be getting for a while.

Yeah, I know. I'm dreamin'.

Just hoping they don't try to shut them down. I think the 3rd parties are serving a really valuable role in the grand scheme of things. It becomes clear that there's not a BROAD market for a fleet of 7 masterpiece jets, a hot-pink femmebot car, or an accurate-sized masterpiece megs... and they step in to fill that gap.

I think if HasTak did try to take legal action, it would paint them as the "bad guy" among fans. I hope things can keep going at the status quo. Definitely best for the fans, and I don't think it's hurting HasTak. Most of the fans who buy 3rd party stuff are on board for any official versions.

That the case with most everyone? (ie. you get Masterpiece Prime before thinking about iGear prime, right?)