The Energon Pub

Banjo-Tron wrote:

xyl360 wrote:

Banjo-Tron wrote:

xyl360 wrote:I think region plays a huge role here. In the UK, for a long time all they had were the comics and a handful of G1 episodes on VHS, so the UK Marvel continuity was all they knew. They didn't have Transformers on TV in the UK in the 80s, so it was irrelevant to them.

Sorry, but that is wrong on both counts. We got all of the US stories as well as the UK stories in the weekly comic, and we also got the Cartoon. If anything, we had a greater appreciation of the comics because we got over twice the material the guys in the USA ever did, including extensive appearances of the Movie cast way before the US comic.

Wow, really? My friend from the UK is the one who told me this. I guess he was mistaken.

You know what, in retrospect he may well be half right, regarding the cartoon, we definitely got Season 1, I distinctly remember watching it on a rubbish programme called 'Wacaday', it was the only reason I watched it. That was in 1985 I think. Not sure about the later seasons, but I used to rent the videos out which had selected episodes from Seasons 2, 3 and 4. But in terms of the entire cartoon? Maybe we didn't get it. I'm confused now! My point regarding the comics still stands though

Thanks to the miracle of Satellite TV I was able to watch all kinds of channels, usually in English like The Children's Channel and Sky One. And I'm happy to say, all 4 seasons were broadcast there, including Generation 2, plus a re-run of Season 2 to coincide with the Classics reissues of 1990/1991

I am trying my darnedest to find it, but am having extreme difficulty finding a quote from either Simon Furman or James Roberts that mentioned how limited and briefly the G1 cartoon aired in the UK, leading to the Marvel UK comics ultimately becoming the definitive G1 continuity for the UK.

Sabrblade wrote:I am trying my darnedest to find it, but am having extreme difficulty finding a quote from either Simon Furman or James Roberts that mentioned how limited and briefly the G1 cartoon aired in the UK, leading to the Marvel UK comics ultimately becoming the definitive G1 continuity for the UK.

Lol if anyone can find it, you will! I have tried to find the original UK air dates but to no avail! The quote might be in one of the IDW 'classics UK' books.

Banjo-Tron wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:I am trying my darnedest to find it, but am having extreme difficulty finding a quote from either Simon Furman or James Roberts that mentioned how limited and briefly the G1 cartoon aired in the UK, leading to the Marvel UK comics ultimately becoming the definitive G1 continuity for the UK.

Lol if anyone can find it, you will! I have tried to find the original UK air dates but to no avail! The quote might be in one of the IDW 'classics UK' books.

That's what I was looking in, but there's just so much text in them that it really makes me wish physical books had a "Ctrl+F" quick search function like computer browsers do.

I even tried looking on the "TransFormation" pages of some old Marvel UK comic issue scans I have, but that got exhausting real quick.

Also checked Simon Furman's "Transformers: The Ultimate Guide" book's sections on the UK comics, yet no luck there either.

It's really frustrating when you know something from having seen/read/heard about it, but cannot for the love of all that is good in this world find the original source you saw/read/heard it from.

Cyber Bishop wrote:I still watch the G1 toons as silly and bad (Bad... carnage in C Minor.. ahem..) as some of the stories were they are still fun.

I know everyones entitled to their opinions, but why does everyone rag on "Carnage in C Minor"? I adore this season 3 episode, and the vhs I had of this which was paired with "Ultimate Weapon" got played to death because I love both episodes so much.

ThunderThruster wrote:

Cyber Bishop wrote:I still watch the G1 toons as silly and bad (Bad... carnage in C Minor.. ahem..) as some of the stories were they are still fun.

I know everyones entitled to their opinions, but why does everyone rag on "Carnage in C Minor"? I adore this season 3 episode, and the vhs I had of this which was paired with "Ultimate Weapon" got played to death because I love both episodes so much.

It's an AKOM episode, which means "Animation Error Central".

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:

ThunderThruster wrote:

Cyber Bishop wrote:I still watch the G1 toons as silly and bad (Bad... carnage in C Minor.. ahem..) as some of the stories were they are still fun.

I know everyones entitled to their opinions, but why does everyone rag on "Carnage in C Minor"? I adore this season 3 episode, and the vhs I had of this which was paired with "Ultimate Weapon" got played to death because I love both episodes so much.

It's an AKOM episode, which means "Animation Error Central".

Plus the whole "planet of musical people that no one other than Soundwave/Blaster can communicate with except for when they suddenly can" thing was handled pretty roughly.

Carnage in C-Minor is actually a fun episode to watch as an adult. Wait, isn't he dead? Wait, how can Hot Spot be standing next to Defensor? Scale, what scale?

Delicon wrote:Carnage in C-Minor is actually a fun episode to watch as an adult. Wait, isn't he dead? Wait, how can Hot Spot be standing next to Defensor? Scale, what scale?

Take a drink for every animation error you spot in that episode, and you'll be dead halfway in.

As a rule of thumb, I ignore episodes with aliens in it (excluding the Transformers themselves, and other robots) and then you are left with mostly good episodes.

For example, what the hell was the one with the space castle or whatever, when Autobots were riding horses, or the one when Ultra Magnus et al were turned into dungaree-toting humans? There's a reason why certain episodes are (rightly) derided as being dreadful. I think 'club con' and 'carwash of doom' are probably the worst two Generation 1 comic stories but they are far superior to a majority of the cartoon episodes

(IMO, of course)

Banjo-Tron wrote:or the one when Ultra Magnus et al were turned into dungaree-toting humans?

But that was the G.I. Joe crossover episode with Cobra Commander.

Banjo-Tron wrote:I think 'club con' and 'carwash of doom' are probably the worst two Generation 1 comic stories but they are far superior to a majority of the cartoon episodes

(IMO, of course)

Oh, I can think of several other Marvel G1 issues that were far worse than those two.

Banjo-Tron wrote:For example, what the hell was the one with the space castle or whatever, when Autobots were riding horses,

Can't say I recall that episode!

ThunderThruster wrote:

Banjo-Tron wrote:For example, what the hell was the one with the space castle or whatever, when Autobots were riding horses,

Can't say I recall that episode!

A Decepticon Raider in King Arthur's Court? Madman's Paradise? Love Madman's Paradise.

I love the old show, sure it's incredibility stupid and flawed but it's still fun.
For me that's still the definite version of G1, I tried getting into the Marvel comics but the artwork disgusts me and the writing is mostly, well not really up to the standard of the times. The 80s had great comics, but Transformers sure wasn't one of them.
So far the only 80s comics I've actually bothered to finish in one go without groaning every two pages are the few UK stories I bothered to try.

But yea, both the comics and the cartoon are actually pretty bad, each have their unforgivable low points, and a few standout good moments, but they're both mostly bad. It's just that we grew up with one or the other or both and the fond memories we associate with them that make them "good" to us. Basically nostalgia.

So really, arguing over what's the better incarnation is silly, as is complaining about the "haters", because they likely only learned of them after already being introduced to this Franchise after enjoying their own nostalgic incarnation.

recently did a big re-read of much of the UK run of comics. found myself doing little more than skimming the US-originated stories so I could get to the good stuff. And some of those books were marvellous.

But, there are some awesome episodes of the cartoon as well. The Bruticus/Combaticons 2-parter, as well as the Aerialbots and Stunticon's being built, then the 'bots getting sent back to the start of the war, the whole thing with Silverbolt becoming the leader of the team? great! Some eps are enjoyable because they've got great animation, and some are enjoyable because of the story and in spite of terrible animation.

I like a lot of the Season 3 stuff, maybe because those were the ones airing on Sky after school at a time when one of my friends had satellite tv, so I got to see them. The rest was really reliant upon VHS tapes, and I must have rented those from the shops so many times, I still don't know why my parents didn't just buy me them. Would have saved them a lot of money in the long run! Only Human, where Magnus, Rodimus, Springer and Arcee become sort of human and get conveniently colour-coded dungarees is actually a lot of fun. Rodimus totally gets it on with a gangster's trophy wife/girlfriend off-screen.

Basically, I think both comics and cartoon probably have an equal proportion of terrible stories, as they do good stories. But, I can't imagine why anyone would hate on the toon, because for all the bad stuff in it, every episode (or near enough) has Optimus Prime, Megatron, Starscream, Soundwave and some other guys, all with their iconic voice acting. And that theme song! I honestly don't know what to think if you're hating on something that gave us those voices and that music!

(never mind that the animated movie is one of my favourite films of all time!)

I don't actually think anyone hates the cartoon, they have just dismissed chunks of it from their own personal 'canon' because some episodes are sooo nonsensical and old-fashioned (even for the time) it is embarrassing. I realise the irony of using the word 'nonsensical' given that we are all talking about giant talking robots when I say this.

For me the issue is the huge clash in style and tone between what I would consider to be the better stories in all mediums, and what I would consider to be crappy filler. I'd say that about half of the entire US comics run is crappy filler, and I'd say the same for the cartoon. I may be biased here but I think the UK comics run is superior in almost every respect. Not that I would ever want to dismiss what Bob Budiansky did in giving pretty much every figure a personality and a name which was a tremendous achievement, given the time constraints he was under.

For me, the problem is this - I'd finish reading Time Wars for example and then the very next UK issue would be a reprint of some nonsensical story about robot wrestling or whatever. Or I'd switch on the TV and there would be spike turned into a demented robot who was a very lazily spliced amalgamation of several Autobots. There is just no coherency. It would be like mixing in silver, bronze and modern age Batman comic stories and interspersing golden age stories within the same timeframe and expecting no-one to say "what the hell?"

The US comic and cartoon also both suffered from having to provide 'one shots' all the time. It's no coincidence that the better stories were those which were allowed to develop properly and have a decent runtime, such as the movie, the original mini-series, Dark Star, the Matrix Quest etc. It can be hard to tell a good story in 20 pages or minutes. having said all that, I do enjoy watching the more surreal cartoon episodes because they are fun in a different way, they just don't particularly complement the more intelligent or 'Highbrow' (geddit?) stories of the time. And I certainly don't hate them.

I don't think anyone can 'hate' on G1. Like G1 is the whole reason we're here. More likely they're recognizing it as a flawed, sometimes silly, nonsensical 80's cartoon meant to sell toys. That doesn't at all mean it's bad...well, except for B.O.T. But we don't talk about that...

JetOptimus23 wrote:I don't think anyone can 'hate' on G1. Like G1 is the whole reason we're here.

False. I'm here cuz of Beast Wars. Others are here cuz of the same, or any other post-G1 series.

Also, it's not "G1" that's being "hated" on, just the cartoon. There's more to "G1" than just its cartoon. For the general discussion about the idea of "hating on G1", see here - http://www.seibertron.com/energonpub/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=82127

Well, I mean G1 is literally the genesis of transformers. I'm in the fandom because of Armada, but G1 is the beginning,

JetOptimus23 wrote:Well, I mean G1 is literally the genesis of transformers. I'm in the fandom because of Armada, but G1 is the beginning,

Yep. Though, the cartoon wasn't. The true beginning, fiction-wise came in the form of the Marvel comics.

But if one wanted to get really precise, the actual beginning (fiction-wise) was the original eight-page story treatment written by Jim Shooter and then handed off to Bob Budiansky, but that's a bit much.

Sabrblade wrote:

JetOptimus23 wrote:Well, I mean G1 is literally the genesis of transformers. I'm in the fandom because of Armada, but G1 is the beginning,

Yep. Though, the cartoon wasn't. The true beginning, fiction-wise came in the form of the Marvel comics.

But if one wanted to get really precise, the actual beginning (fiction-wise) was the original eight-page story treatment written by Jim Shooter and then handed off to Bob Budiansky, but that's a bit much.

The Marvel comic beat the cartoon by a matter of months and had a fraction of the audience compared to the show. Also, the show had like 98 episodes over four years and the book had 80 issues over seven or eight. It wasn't really till the show was canceled and TF mania cooled off that the Marvel book really found itself. Before then, the book placed a great deal of focus on human characters that had little appeal and treated most of the TFs as disposable background fodder.

I do see a lot of backlash to the original cartoon (which informed the idea of what TFs were to the vast majority of anyone familiar with the franchise in the '80's), but it does seem that most of this comes from fans that grew up later or are REALLY fond of the UK books. There's a lot of snobbery on the IDW boards towards the show.

Dean ML wrote:The Marvel comic beat the cartoon by a matter of months and had a fraction of the audience compared to the show. Also, the show had like 98 episodes over four years and the book had 80 issues over seven or eight. It wasn't really till the show was canceled and TF mania cooled off that the Marvel book really found itself. Before then, the book placed a great deal of focus on human characters that had little appeal and treated most of the TFs as disposable background fodder.

In the U.S., maybe. In the UK, however, it was the primary TF story since the cartoon barely aired over there. It had 332 issues over seven or eight years, and placed a great deal of focus on the bots themselves, even the more obscure ones who didn't get any chance to shine or even appear in the U.S. issues.

Sabrblade wrote:

Dean ML wrote:The Marvel comic beat the cartoon by a matter of months and had a fraction of the audience compared to the show. Also, the show had like 98 episodes over four years and the book had 80 issues over seven or eight. It wasn't really till the show was canceled and TF mania cooled off that the Marvel book really found itself. Before then, the book placed a great deal of focus on human characters that had little appeal and treated most of the TFs as disposable background fodder.

In the U.S., maybe. In the UK, however, it was the primary TF story since the cartoon barely aired over there. It had 332 issues over seven or eight years, and placed a great deal of focus on the bots themselves, even the more obscure ones who didn't get any chance to shine or even appear in the U.S. issues.

I wouldn't really go that far. The show aired in its entirety and was the main TF fiction for me, my cousin and his school friends, he never even knew that TF comics existed and he would have been all over them had he. He did collect X-Men comics for almost 10 years.
I even remember seeing repeats of the show (or maybe it was just the G2 version now that I think about it).
There where multiple VHS releases and an active VHS "trading ring", well the later might have just been at my cousin's school, he kept showing up with VHSs he taped himself or bought off of someone else, he was real proud about getting a tape with the full episodes of the Rebirth as I remember.


However, I will say that the TF comic might have been the main TF fiction for about 90% of adult UK TF fans. Since that lasted until well after the cartoon ended, and the final UK G2 issue even directed its readers towards the at the time young online community and its fanzines.

And I think that's basically the same for the US fans as well, those that followed the comics, stayed aware of the brand for longer than those who didn't and then lost interest after the cartoon stopped and eventually grew out of it.

Same would have happened to me weren't it for my cousin and him taping G1 and Beast Wars for us to watch well after it all ended. He kept me interested, then introduced me to the DVDs, which then led me to the Dreamwave comics, which then led me to internet news sites, which eventually introduced me to the online fandom after I learned what forum ment.