The Energon Pub

News Credits: 60 · by **fenrir72** » Sat Aug 06, 2011 9:11 am

We have Encore in the TF lines right? Hasbro too has sort of jumped on the bandwagon by releasing quite a few G1 classics.

There is also a modern take in the RTS,Generations,Classsics etc.

In the modern versions, we have all the POA and pose ability to the point that they pop out of their ball joint sockets right?

So in a what if universe? (Disregard Encore) What if Hasbro/Takara starts manufacturing newly designed Transformers sans the pose ability and articulation? You know, back to the old stiff as a "brick" design like, lets say Sixshot.

Would anyone of you even consider such a possibility and support such a line? Weird things can happen.

Your opinions?

News Credits: 10 · by **Lapse Of Reason** » Sat Aug 06, 2011 10:22 am

No. Sounds like a step backwards.

News Credits: 15 · by **PrymeStriker** » Sat Aug 06, 2011 10:30 am

No, and I don't think it would be good for Hasbro/Takara either. Like Lapse of Reason said, it sounds like a "step backwards," and imagine the whining kids that while cry to their mommies for these figures, when they get it in their hands, they say it "sucks", and they end up returning it. Hasbro/Takara probably wouldn't make a whole lot of money off of that.

EDIT: Plus I don't see many-any "kids" buying the reissues. I see maybe people 18-30s whenever I'm in the same aisle. And besides, the reissues are surely re-releases (or slightly changed) toys of G1. But if they name them a different label, the kids are going to think it's actually an action figure, not a brick house...

News Credits: 5 · by **zodconvoy** » Sat Aug 06, 2011 10:31 am

That just doesn't make sense. With the Classics+ line, they try their best to take the bricks of yesteryear and make them action figures. If they aren't updating articulation, how are they different from reissues?

Are you saying you would actually want a Sixshot that can't stand in cool poses? Because I have one already. It's called Sixshot.

by **NTESHFT** » Sat Aug 06, 2011 10:40 am

I say if they did that, then just stick with reissues. I know that it has been said a lot of the old molds are destroyed or M.I.A., but there are still many that have not been done yet. I'm sure we have the technology to build new molds. There should be a way to reverse engineer....

News Credits: 5 · by **zodconvoy** » Sat Aug 06, 2011 10:54 am

headsortails wrote:I say if they did that, then just stick with reissues. I know that it has been said a lot of the old molds are destroyed or M.I.A., but there are still many that have not been done yet. I'm sure we have the technology to build new molds. There should be a way to reverse engineer....

When they reissued the MOTU line like 5+ years ago, Mattel put out the call for parts they no longer had to make new molds from. TF's are 1,000x more complex but the same could be done. They're going to sit there and tell us that the Dinobots wouldn't sell well enough the warrant whole new molds? I call bullsh!t.

News Credits: 60 · by **fenrir72** » Sat Aug 06, 2011 11:23 am

Hypothetical situation anyway. Stranger things do happen in life....... >:oP

I presented this idea because, well I'm kind of getting sick with all this pose ability to a point that parts of the figure literally are popping out of their sockets.

henkei Galvatron is the worst example (granted that in mid development he got shafted in the design department due to the release of TFA Shockwave) and henkei Grimlock but, well I hope fellow collectors you do get my point?

And, well HasTak seems to have pulled everything in the magicians hat except the kitchen sink with regards to innovating the line. Mechtech, Power core combiners, Superlink, "Masters" gimmick, gestalts, super pose ability and then........?

News Credits: 5 · by **zodconvoy** » Sat Aug 06, 2011 12:26 pm

fenrir72 wrote:And, well HasTak seems to have pulled everything in the magicians hat except the kitchen sink with regards to innovating the line. Mechtech, Power core combiners, Superlink, "Masters" gimmick, gestalts, super pose ability and then........?

They've been at it for nearly 30 years. The simple fact that they can still find fresh things to do is a testament to their imagination and engineering prowess. Transformers itself is a gimmick and then they work around that to put in other gimmicks "yo dawg" style and even through various art styles. The ultra-detailed shattered metal and random parts designs of the Movies was perfected in ROTF Leader Optimus Prime. It was done so well that they didn't even bother to try to top it in DOTM. The highly stylized, kinetic Animated style? Deluxe Jazz is a smooth as Jazz should be. If he was any smoother he'd steal your girl and become your best friend in the same night.

To tell these guys to not do what they do so well because someone out there got a wobbly Galvatron? To make an entirely new line no better that the stuff we had in the early 80's? And the fan reaction towards anything less articulated then what we had last year is to call it childish or "Playskool." The term "brick" itself is used to insult toys. Why would they willingly make something targeted to us that they know most of us would hate?

News Credits: 15 · by **PrymeStriker** » Sat Aug 06, 2011 8:38 pm

zodconvoy wrote:
fenrir72 wrote:And, well HasTak seems to have pulled everything in the magicians hat except the kitchen sink with regards to innovating the line. Mechtech, Power core combiners, Superlink, "Masters" gimmick, gestalts, super pose ability and then........?

They've been at it for nearly 30 years. The simple fact that they can still find fresh things to do is a testament to their imagination and engineering prowess. Transformers itself is a gimmick and then they work around that to put in other gimmicks "yo dawg" style and even through various art styles. The ultra-detailed shattered metal and random parts designs of the Movies was perfected in ROTF Leader Optimus Prime. It was done so well that they didn't even bother to try to top it in DOTM. The highly stylized, kinetic Animated style? Deluxe Jazz is a smooth as Jazz should be. If he was any smoother he'd steal your girl and become your best friend in the same night.

To tell these guys to not do what they do so well because someone out there got a wobbly Galvatron? To make an entirely new line no better that the stuff we had in the early 80's? And the fan reaction towards anything less articulated then what we had last year is to call it childish or "Playskool." The term "brick" itself is used to insult toys. Why would they willingly make something targeted to us that they know most of us would hate?

Yes, that's right. As much as I love G1 figures, they're more of a collector's shelf shine to me, not something I'd call "the best figures in the world" and play with them all day. To agree with zodconvoy, most of us would hate the BrickFormers to come back, populating shelves everywhere, knocking out some of the best figures, and, ultimately, ruining their popularity. I admit, their figures were good, for the 80s. They should stick with Encore and Reissues if they want to do that, and make good figures for the 21st century.

by **Cobalt Prime** » Sat Aug 06, 2011 8:45 pm

The other day, while I was moving my Cybertron and Energon bots to a new shelf complex I found myself saying "they don't make 'em like this anymore" more than a few times. And it's true.

While a bit less articulated, the AEC figures felt sturdier, solid, heavier, and of better quality overall (they also didn't skimp on paint apps, but that's a whole other subject!)than anything offered nowdays. Despite the lower level of articulation, those TFs still managed to look cool too, especially ones like E-Galvatron, E-Omega Supreme, and C-Optimus. The transformations were also a Hell of a lot simpler and didn't make one constantly feel like they were about to break the thing.

I for one would be willing to take that "step back" for those afore-mentioned attributes in my newer TFs.

But of course, that's just my opinion.

News Credits: 226 · by **Burn** » Sat Aug 06, 2011 9:21 pm

fenrir72 wrote:Would anyone of you even consider such a possibility and support such a line? Weird things can happen.

Heck yeah.

I love my bricks.

Poseability isn't everything. In fact I find they often over-complicate what should be a simple figure to transform.

The bricks? Plain and simple, quick to transform, easy to play with. Plus they tended to have better "gimmicks". Let's face it, combiners these days suck. Sure they may be poseable, but they look like crap and their poseability tends to make them fall down.

News Credits: 60 · by **fenrir72** » Sat Aug 06, 2011 9:29 pm

I used henkei Galvatron as a worst case scenario example of articulation and pose ability. As I said, any input would be most welcome.

Btw, when I called Sixshot a brick, that was a term of endearment and not a pejorative

The transformation is a gimmick for sure so the need to keep the line fresh is always welcome(who wants a stale product btw?)But there are times, over complication turns people off.

Edit: my smileys are malfunctioning, the love icon becomes an angry one, wtf?

News Credits: 226 · by **Burn** » Sat Aug 06, 2011 10:15 pm

Gimmicks can also be a hinderance. I've always felt the best example of this is Cybertron Vector Prime.

Great figure, but his articulation went out the window because they had to build a speaker into him. In this case, improved articulation would have been a better trade up than a speaker which will fail over time.

News Credits: 60 · by **fenrir72** » Sat Aug 06, 2011 10:52 pm

Speaking of which, this sound effects gimmicks really are a drag. For example henkei Powergilde. They blew up his size for the sound effects circuit board but, I find it imho unnecessary. That size ill befits him. The size should have been well spent on Skyfire/Jetfire.

News Credits: 226 · by **Burn** » Sat Aug 06, 2011 11:34 pm

Personally I don't want sound or any other gimmick other than the whole "changes from one thing into another" gimmick.

But that's just me. I'm old and grumpy.

Apparently.

by **beanman** » Sun Aug 07, 2011 1:08 am

I know this is a hypothetical questions, but it just doesn't make sense to for Hastak to even go that route (business-wise). They would quickly alienate causal fans (and kids!) for the sake of a few old timers. Better off continuing with the random reissue projects and updating the old molds (Classics, Universe, etc.).

Now, 3rd parties, which have less to lose and in general produce smaller quantities may consider it, but they would need some sort of media support (i.e., comics, a different transformers continuum like shattered glass).

News Credits: 4 · by **freaky777** » Sun Aug 07, 2011 1:39 am

No.. especially when you see some of the best enginerring in ROTF Leader Prime or HA Jazz, etc. Of course once in a while you do get 'bricks' like Ultimate Prime.

News Credits: 9 · by **Mykltron** » Sun Aug 07, 2011 6:14 am

fenrir72 wrote:Would anyone of you even consider such a possibility and support such a line? Weird things can happen.

Hell no. That was why I gave up on G1 at the age of 11 and why I have no interest in Armada/Energon.

News Credits: 60 · by **fenrir72** » Sun Aug 07, 2011 7:45 am

Mykltron, don't give up on the oldies. It's like fine wine that gets even better as it ages.

by **Windsweeper** » Sun Aug 07, 2011 12:29 pm

I love how fans criticise G1 toys for being bricks yet go all gooey over the likes of Robot Heroes or Stealth Force which don't even transform. And don't get me started on Legends. Legends Jazz made Pretender Jazz look good and Hound is hideous.

The Diaclones weren't complete bricks and no TF since has conveyed the sense of realism they. Die Cast Construction is indeed a lost art.

G1 Scorponok had no knees nor could he turn his head but he was still quite articulate and looked nice and imposing.

Plus G1 had more than one size class. Deluxe cars and jets look slaggin stupid together.

Don't get me wrong, there are some great modern toys such as the Energon/Cybertron basics and Real Gears but I just wish people would give the g1 line a break. At least they had recogniseable faces. If not for G1, we'd have no franchise now.

News Credits: 1 · by **Gauntlet101010** » Sun Aug 07, 2011 12:55 pm

I might pick and choose from it, but no. Overall I wouldn't be happy with it. A side effect of articulations is robots that look more believable. So even if I'm not playing with it, to me, it makes the whole thing look nicer.

News Credits: 7 · by **Noideaforaname** » Sun Aug 07, 2011 3:40 pm

I accepted limited articulation on Legends figures due to their size (and even those are starting to get decently articulated), but I think it's ridiculous for anything larger to not be able to do anything but stand and transform (much less stand TO transform).

...I just wish people would give the g1 line a break. At least they had recogniseable faces.

News Credits: 60 · by **fenrir72** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 2:08 am

Aside from Ironhide, Gears and Bumble actually have faces (well sort off). IH in the diaclone series was actually a sort of power armor mech which required the "driver" to control him in the cockpit.

News Credits: 4 · by **craggy** » Mon Aug 08, 2011 1:33 pm

I wouldn't be completely against "bricks" if the lack of engineering resulted in larger (hollow) figures. Like a big barely posable Fort Max/Omega Supreme/Trypticon type guy who transforms by falling over, or kinda falling apart upside down or something.

by **Skullcrunchberries** » Thu Aug 11, 2011 5:39 am

fenrir72 wrote:I presented this idea because, well I'm kind of getting sick with all this pose ability to a point that parts of the figure literally are popping out of their sockets.

While I'm totally on board with you about this, there's also an intentional reason why this is done.

The fact is, these toys are meant for kids. And kids, the younger the moreso, are known for accidentally ripping an arm off or something while trying to transform it on their own. If you design all the limbs as balljoints or something as easily detachable, they cry and Mommy or Daddy just pops it back on, no biggie. If you take something certainly more stable but more like say, G1, when that arm comes off and the kid starts crying, Mommy or Daddy has to explain to the kid that he just broke his favorite toy and then go buy him a new one.

Let me reiterate, I totally think they can do a better job with tightening up some of the joints. Frankly, it ruined some figures *coughcoughGalvycoughcough*, but there's no way they'd backtrack on something that saves so many childish tears and so much parental grief. BUT, if for some reason they did ever put out a line like this, depending on the characters or fiction associated with it I'd probably be all over it. I love my bricks, and collecting G1 nowadays is just too expensive :-(