Designer Desk Video - Transformers Combiner Wars Victorion

Sabrblade wrote:Is it wrong that when John said "They're like renegades," my first thought was of the Renegade GoBot faction?

Rodimus Prime wrote:And I still think this whole thing was rigged.

Optimum Supreme wrote:Rigged voting, stuffed ballot box, whatever. It isn't what fans wanted, it's what some small segment wanted, whether that means Hasbro faked the vote WWE style, or some group of progressives made sure to vote early, and more importantly vote often to make sure they got their "inclusive" combiner.

Rodimus Prime wrote:I posed that question simply because as it was mentioned before, they're not supposed to be gendered, as they don't reproduce by human convention. But it would be hard to erase Arcee from all the continuities she has appeared in so far. Their personalities, however, qualify them masculine or feminine, but not actually male or female, as they don't have reproductive systems.

Rodimus Prime wrote:I would love to see a poll independent of any official or official-related Transformers media be conducted to see how many people really want a female Combiner, as opposed to the other options that were supposedly available in that fan voting.

That Bot wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:I posed that question simply because as it was mentioned before, they're not supposed to be gendered, as they don't reproduce by human convention. But it would be hard to erase Arcee from all the continuities she has appeared in so far. Their personalities, however, qualify them masculine or feminine, but not actually male or female, as they don't have reproductive systems.

They are male and female because they identify as male and female.

They have genders, the sense of their own identity and outward expression of such. They do not have sex, the biological or physiological components. When we talk about male and female transformers, we are referring to characters who see themselves as male or female, not characters with plugs or sockets between their legs.

Rodimus Prime wrote:I would love to see a poll independent of any official or official-related Transformers media be conducted to see how many people really want a female Combiner, as opposed to the other options that were supposedly available in that fan voting.

Well the only other option besides female is "male" so that wouldn't be a very exciting poll.

In addition, to determine if the Hasbro poll was rigged or not, you would have to have all the exact same people vote, and no people voting who didn't vote in last year's polls. Otherwise the sample group is different and not necessarily reflective of the group that influenced the poll decision. Just saying.

That Bot wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:

That Bot wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:I posed that question simply because as it was mentioned before, they're not supposed to be gendered, as they don't reproduce by human convention. But it would be hard to erase Arcee from all the continuities she has appeared in so far. Their personalities, however, qualify them masculine or feminine, but not actually male or female, as they don't have reproductive systems.

They are male and female because they identify as male and female.

Male and female are sexes. Not types of personality. If they don't have the proper reproductive organs (plugs and sockets, as you say) they can't be a certain sex.

They have genders, the sense of their own identity and outward expression of such. They do not have sex, the biological or physiological components. When we talk about male and female transformers, we are referring to characters who see themselves as male or female, not characters with plugs or sockets between their legs.

So they're masculine and feminine, as I said.

Male and female are genders as well as sexes. Transformers have these genders. They are more than just masculine and feminine because those are personality traits. You can be a masculine woman and a feminine man. Gender is a core understanding of oneself as male, female, or something else within your species, regardless of biological traits. I know we're conditioned to think of sex and gender as the same thing, and if you're a biological male then that's the end of it, but it's actually more complex than that. Here's some reading if you're interested. Either way, let's just take it at face value that Transformers have gender despite their lack of biological sexes as we understand it.

Simon Furman may have said that they were genderless in IDW but the reality is, like I said a few posts back, they were written, coded, personified, etc. as male. He was basically trying to have his cake and eat it. Transformers are fundamentally giant metal people, and part of that has always been the existence of male and female characters. However, due to idea that boys find girl characters icky, the gender balance has been very skewed through the franchise's history, and only now are Hasbro and IDW taking real steps to try to even things out because they realized that their audience is okay with female characters and in fact wants more.

Rodimus Prime wrote:Exactly. That's why I said earlier, I was glad to see a female Combiner, I just wanted to make sure we got one for the right reasons. Because the fandom wanted one, not because Hasbro was pushing its PC agenda on us with the fan vote.