Shia LeBeouf - "When I saw the second movie, I wasn't impressed with what we did."

ConBotFormer wrote:well I sure as hell hope the third movie is the best. I like how Shia is very real about the film. It's his job and he takes it seriously. He know's that making movies isn't just shit you put together like ROTF.

The actors are told and payed to say their movie is awesome and everyone should go see it. I love that when a movie like ROTF sucks ass, the actors come out say it.

Don't kiss Bay's ass. He sucks at making movies.

Let's just hope this third movie is really good and it sounds like it's going to be serious. Killing humans, this should be a very good movie. A "real" war will happen now in the film if humans are being killed left and right. Sounds very interesting, can't wait to hear more about this film. Hope it's a good one.

it was the stupid toilet-humor and annoying/racist twins that really killed it.

sabrigami wrote:Hmmm, kinda worried after reading that. I thought the biggest complaint about these movies was the "human" element. Now they want to add more? Doesn't seem like a good plan to me. I personally think it needs to spotlight the bots way more. I personally don't need more Leo, agent Sims and Mikaela stinking up these movies too. Oh well, least the explosions will be fun

zenosaurus_x wrote:

it was the stupid toilet-humor and annoying/racist twins that really killed it.

Toilet-Humor=Not funny, at all....my dad said Simmon's uh....you know, scarred his mind...

But seriously, where are people coming from with "racist twins?" It's driving me insane....I don't find them racist and neither does anyone I know...
I actually liked the Twins, the only way they ruined it was screentime stealing(and some of what they said to Leo).

zenosaurus_x wrote:Ah ok, they just seemed more goofy to me...but still, my only complaint about them is their stealing of screentime, even from BumbleBee...

DMSL wrote:Guess i am part of the minoriy here, but i really liked ROTF.

First-Aid wrote:One of the biggest allures for me IS the human element, but not the element of participation of humans. I'm looking at the war itself. Remember their teaser posters for the first one? "Their war. Our world." The whole story is supposed to be about a war between two factions of alien robots...BUT WITH HUMANS CAUGHT IN THE MIDDLE. There really was not a lot of the "caught in the middle" aspect in the second movie. To me, THAT is the human element...the humans getting in the way of the war, and the consequences of that. If this is what they are talking about- and judging by the way Shia is saying humans are dying left and right- then they are definitely on the right track. That way you get giant robots fighting everywhere, but the humans getting killed in the middle and the consequences of such.

First-Aid wrote:One of the biggest allures for me IS the human element, but not the element of participation of humans. I'm looking at the war itself. Remember their teaser posters for the first one? "Their war. Our world." The whole story is supposed to be about a war between two factions of alien robots...BUT WITH HUMANS CAUGHT IN THE MIDDLE. There really was not a lot of the "caught in the middle" aspect in the second movie. To me, THAT is the human element...the humans getting in the way of the war, and the consequences of that. If this is what they are talking about- and judging by the way Shia is saying humans are dying left and right- then they are definitely on the right track. That way you get giant robots fighting everywhere, but the humans getting killed in the middle and the consequences of such.

Razorclaw0000 wrote:With principal filming not even underway, will the criticisms of Transformers Revenge of the Fallen positively influence Transformers 3?

Evil_the_Nub wrote:

First-Aid wrote:One of the biggest allures for me IS the human element, but not the element of participation of humans. I'm looking at the war itself. Remember their teaser posters for the first one? "Their war. Our world." The whole story is supposed to be about a war between two factions of alien robots...BUT WITH HUMANS CAUGHT IN THE MIDDLE. There really was not a lot of the "caught in the middle" aspect in the second movie. To me, THAT is the human element...the humans getting in the way of the war, and the consequences of that. If this is what they are talking about- and judging by the way Shia is saying humans are dying left and right- then they are definitely on the right track. That way you get giant robots fighting everywhere, but the humans getting killed in the middle and the consequences of such.

That's what the movie was about, Sam got caught in the middle of the war. The Decepticons attacked Earth and kidnapped his parents to get a hold of him. You can't get more in the middle than that.

First-Aid wrote:There really was not a lot of the "caught in the middle" aspect in the second movie.

Vicalliose wrote:

Razorclaw0000 wrote:With principal filming not even underway, will the criticisms of Transformers Revenge of the Fallen positively influence Transformers 3?

No.

gigazarak wrote:

Evil_the_Nub wrote:

First-Aid wrote:One of the biggest allures for me IS the human element, but not the element of participation of humans. I'm looking at the war itself. Remember their teaser posters for the first one? "Their war. Our world." The whole story is supposed to be about a war between two factions of alien robots...BUT WITH HUMANS CAUGHT IN THE MIDDLE. There really was not a lot of the "caught in the middle" aspect in the second movie. To me, THAT is the human element...the humans getting in the way of the war, and the consequences of that. If this is what they are talking about- and judging by the way Shia is saying humans are dying left and right- then they are definitely on the right track. That way you get giant robots fighting everywhere, but the humans getting killed in the middle and the consequences of such.

That's what the movie was about, Sam got caught in the middle of the war. The Decepticons attacked Earth and kidnapped his parents to get a hold of him. You can't get more in the middle than that.

Well First-Aid did say that...

First-Aid wrote:There really was not a lot of the "caught in the middle" aspect in the second movie.

Which is true I think.

Autobot032 wrote:

gigazarak wrote:

Evil_the_Nub wrote:

First-Aid wrote:One of the biggest allures for me IS the human element, but not the element of participation of humans. I'm looking at the war itself. Remember their teaser posters for the first one? "Their war. Our world." The whole story is supposed to be about a war between two factions of alien robots...BUT WITH HUMANS CAUGHT IN THE MIDDLE. There really was not a lot of the "caught in the middle" aspect in the second movie. To me, THAT is the human element...the humans getting in the way of the war, and the consequences of that. If this is what they are talking about- and judging by the way Shia is saying humans are dying left and right- then they are definitely on the right track. That way you get giant robots fighting everywhere, but the humans getting killed in the middle and the consequences of such.

That's what the movie was about, Sam got caught in the middle of the war. The Decepticons attacked Earth and kidnapped his parents to get a hold of him. You can't get more in the middle than that.

Well First-Aid did say that...

First-Aid wrote:There really was not a lot of the "caught in the middle" aspect in the second movie.

Which is true I think.

I'm with Nub on this one. You don't get much more caught in the middle than having your family kidnapped by the villain(s), and having to be a hero not only for yourself, but your alien friends.

I'm...a little confused. Did anyone actually see the movie that Nub and I did? I mean, it was clearly TransFormers, and it clearly paid homage to G1 with some of the themes in it, and it had what everyone had asked for: More robots.

I still think people are expecting Oscar material out of this stuff. I think people are looking for Dreamwave level writing, where it's all "srsly" and so on. Well...here's a newsflash for you:

1.) Dreamwave was boring. It was downtrodden, too serious, and lacked any and all fun to be had.

Autobot032 wrote:
2.) TransFormers started out as a hollow cartoon made as a commercial vehicle to sell TOYS. To children. Not Shakesperian drama to adults.

Revenge Of The Fallen WAS TransFormers. It WAS a lot of fun, it was loud, it was obnoxious and it sold toys, just like it's G1 counterpart.

John Turturros ass
Leg humping robot
Racial stereotype borderline offensive Twins
Farting robot
Robot testicles
Insult after insult to your intelligence..
... god do I need to mention any more!?

Autobot032 wrote:
Oh, I'm sure you could probably finagle an Oscar caliber level of writing out of the mythos (though I'm honestly not sure it's even remotely possible...), but would it be worth it? I don't think so. I'm betting it would be boring, it wouldn't make much money, and it would effectively kill the film franchise.

Autobot032 wrote:
This is immature, puddle deep, explosion-a-rama, popcorn flick FUN. That's how it's supposed to be. If you want deep, thought provoking science fiction, it exists. It just doesn't seem to in the world of TransFormers.

Once you realize that this is supposed to be all for FUN, not profit (except Hasbro's), not srs business, then perhaps you'll be able to fully enjoy it.

Autobot032 wrote:
I don't mind the movies getting darker and more serious, within reason, but the awe and wow factor in the first movie where we first meet Optimus and company is what this franchise needs. It needs humor, it needs liveliness, it needs more fun.

We grew up, we didn't grow old. Don't make the franchise do the same.

Vicalliose wrote:

Razorclaw0000 wrote:With principal filming not even underway, will the criticisms of Transformers Revenge of the Fallen positively influence Transformers 3?

No.

gigazarak wrote:

Autobot032 wrote:

gigazarak wrote:

Evil_the_Nub wrote:

First-Aid wrote:One of the biggest allures for me IS the human element, but not the element of participation of humans. I'm looking at the war itself. Remember their teaser posters for the first one? "Their war. Our world." The whole story is supposed to be about a war between two factions of alien robots...BUT WITH HUMANS CAUGHT IN THE MIDDLE. There really was not a lot of the "caught in the middle" aspect in the second movie. To me, THAT is the human element...the humans getting in the way of the war, and the consequences of that. If this is what they are talking about- and judging by the way Shia is saying humans are dying left and right- then they are definitely on the right track. That way you get giant robots fighting everywhere, but the humans getting killed in the middle and the consequences of such.

That's what the movie was about, Sam got caught in the middle of the war. The Decepticons attacked Earth and kidnapped his parents to get a hold of him. You can't get more in the middle than that.

Well First-Aid did say that...

First-Aid wrote:There really was not a lot of the "caught in the middle" aspect in the second movie.

Which is true I think.

I'm with Nub on this one. You don't get much more caught in the middle than having your family kidnapped by the villain(s), and having to be a hero not only for yourself, but your alien friends.

I'm...a little confused. Did anyone actually see the movie that Nub and I did? I mean, it was clearly TransFormers, and it clearly paid homage to G1 with some of the themes in it, and it had what everyone had asked for: More robots.

I still think people are expecting Oscar material out of this stuff. I think people are looking for Dreamwave level writing, where it's all "srsly" and so on. Well...here's a newsflash for you:

1.) Dreamwave was boring. It was downtrodden, too serious, and lacked any and all fun to be had.

Who was it aimed at? Old fans of G1! Who weren't kids anymore! It's fair to make the comics a little more meaty in terms of themes than the cartoons, you found them boring? Well thats your opinion, and you have a right to it I suppose, more interesting comics for the rest of us...

gigazarak wrote:

Autobot032 wrote:
2.) TransFormers started out as a hollow cartoon made as a commercial vehicle to sell TOYS. To children. Not Shakesperian drama to adults.

Revenge Of The Fallen WAS TransFormers. It WAS a lot of fun, it was loud, it was obnoxious and it sold toys, just like it's G1 counterpart.

Sure it did sell toys, no doubting you there, but fun huh? Who's having fun!? Lets see what fun we have here...

John Turturros ass
Leg humping robot
Racial stereotype borderline offensive Twins
Farting robot
Robot testicles
Insult after insult to your intelligence..
... god do I need to mention any more!?

Are any of those things G1? it's things like these that bring the tone of the franchise down, to a level lower than just mere kids-fare entertainment, it just becomes depraved and self-indulgent. I took my kids to see the movie, all the borderline adult humour was a bit much for their tiny little minds, and while I'm no conservative nut-job, I did find it a bit much for them, (my kids are 3 and 6y/o btw which is roughly the age I was when tf first happened to me in 84)... So ROTF in my mind, changed the focus on who TF was aimed at, it's not little kids anymore, barely teenagers either! So what? TF has matured then? Hardly..

gigazarak wrote:

Autobot032 wrote:
Oh, I'm sure you could probably finagle an Oscar caliber level of writing out of the mythos (though I'm honestly not sure it's even remotely possible...), but would it be worth it? I don't think so. I'm betting it would be boring, it wouldn't make much money, and it would effectively kill the film franchise.

They could always reboot, nothing will kill a franchise like TF, you're kidding yourself if you think that something will. It's a long standing juggernaut of a toy-line, just think of how many toys you buy, and multiply that by a large percentage OF THE ENTIRE FRICKEN WORLD, it's not going away any time soon.

I don't think that those that decry ROTF as a POS, aren't doing so because they want Shakespeare, they just want a movie that doesn't add pointless juvenile garbage to a universe that is full of, as you say "explosion-a-rama, popcorn flick FUN" opportunities!

gigazarak wrote:

Autobot032 wrote:
This is immature, puddle deep, explosion-a-rama, popcorn flick FUN. That's how it's supposed to be. If you want deep, thought provoking science fiction, it exists. It just doesn't seem to in the world of TransFormers.

Once you realize that this is supposed to be all for FUN, not profit (except Hasbro's), not srs business, then perhaps you'll be able to fully enjoy it.

Yeah but what kind of fun!? Just because you find certain things fun, doesn't mean that everyone else does!

gigazarak wrote:

Autobot032 wrote:
I don't mind the movies getting darker and more serious, within reason, but the awe and wow factor in the first movie where we first meet Optimus and company is what this franchise needs. It needs humor, it needs liveliness, it needs more fun.

We grew up, we didn't grow old. Don't make the franchise do the same.

Woah! erm long post!...

Lets see Unicron and the Quintessons in the third film! Would make sense given that G1 Season 3 introduced the Quints, and Unicron happened before season 3, theres your "placating the G1 fans" covered! But Unicron will probably be a big farting ass or something, and the Quints, well maybe they'll become like hentacle **** monsters, Bah! who am I kidding!? That isn't adult, depraved, despicable, ugly and horrendous enough damnit! I simply can't wait for what they'll do next...

Autobot032 wrote:


I'm...a little confused. Did anyone actually see the movie that Nub and I did? I mean, it was clearly TransFormers, and it clearly paid homage to G1 with some of the themes in it, and it had what everyone had asked for: More robots.

I still think people are expecting Oscar material out of this stuff. I think people are looking for Dreamwave level writing, where it's all "srsly" and so on. Well...here's a newsflash for you:

1.) Dreamwave was boring. It was downtrodden, too serious, and lacked any and all fun to be had.

2.) TransFormers started out as a hollow cartoon made as a commercial vehicle to sell TOYS. To children. Not Shakesperian drama to adults.

Revenge Of The Fallen WAS TransFormers. It WAS a lot of fun, it was loud, it was obnoxious and it sold toys, just like it's G1 counterpart.

Oh, I'm sure you could probably finagle an Oscar caliber level of writing out of the mythos (though I'm honestly not sure it's even remotely possible...), but would it be worth it? I don't think so. I'm betting it would be boring, it wouldn't make much money, and it would effectively kill the film franchise.

This is immature, puddle deep, explosion-a-rama, popcorn flick FUN. That's how it's supposed to be. If you want deep, thought provoking science fiction, it exists. It just doesn't seem to in the world of TransFormers.

Once you realize that this is supposed to be all for FUN, not profit (except Hasbro's), not srs business, then perhaps you'll be able to fully enjoy it.

I don't mind the movies getting darker and more serious, within reason, but the awe and wow factor in the first movie where we first meet Optimus and company is what this franchise needs. It needs humor, it needs liveliness, it needs more fun.

We grew up, we didn't grow old. Don't make the franchise do the same.

Autobot032 wrote:

gigazarak wrote:

Autobot032 wrote:

gigazarak wrote:

Evil_the_Nub wrote:

First-Aid wrote:One of the biggest allures for me IS the human element, but not the element of participation of humans. I'm looking at the war itself. Remember their teaser posters for the first one? "Their war. Our world." The whole story is supposed to be about a war between two factions of alien robots...BUT WITH HUMANS CAUGHT IN THE MIDDLE. There really was not a lot of the "caught in the middle" aspect in the second movie. To me, THAT is the human element...the humans getting in the way of the war, and the consequences of that. If this is what they are talking about- and judging by the way Shia is saying humans are dying left and right- then they are definitely on the right track. That way you get giant robots fighting everywhere, but the humans getting killed in the middle and the consequences of such.

That's what the movie was about, Sam got caught in the middle of the war. The Decepticons attacked Earth and kidnapped his parents to get a hold of him. You can't get more in the middle than that.

Well First-Aid did say that...

First-Aid wrote:There really was not a lot of the "caught in the middle" aspect in the second movie.

Which is true I think.

I'm with Nub on this one. You don't get much more caught in the middle than having your family kidnapped by the villain(s), and having to be a hero not only for yourself, but your alien friends.

I'm...a little confused. Did anyone actually see the movie that Nub and I did? I mean, it was clearly TransFormers, and it clearly paid homage to G1 with some of the themes in it, and it had what everyone had asked for: More robots.

I still think people are expecting Oscar material out of this stuff. I think people are looking for Dreamwave level writing, where it's all "srsly" and so on. Well...here's a newsflash for you:

1.) Dreamwave was boring. It was downtrodden, too serious, and lacked any and all fun to be had.

Who was it aimed at? Old fans of G1! Who weren't kids anymore! It's fair to make the comics a little more meaty in terms of themes than the cartoons, you found them boring? Well thats your opinion, and you have a right to it I suppose, more interesting comics for the rest of us...

And more power to you. If you enjoy them, good for you.

gigazarak wrote:

Autobot032 wrote:
2.) TransFormers started out as a hollow cartoon made as a commercial vehicle to sell TOYS. To children. Not Shakesperian drama to adults.

Revenge Of The Fallen WAS TransFormers. It WAS a lot of fun, it was loud, it was obnoxious and it sold toys, just like it's G1 counterpart.

Sure it did sell toys, no doubting you there, but fun huh? Who's having fun!? Lets see what fun we have here...

John Turturros ass
Leg humping robot
Racial stereotype borderline offensive Twins
Farting robot
Robot testicles
Insult after insult to your intelligence..
... god do I need to mention any more!?

Are any of those things G1? it's things like these that bring the tone of the franchise down, to a level lower than just mere kids-fare entertainment, it just becomes depraved and self-indulgent. I took my kids to see the movie, all the borderline adult humour was a bit much for their tiny little minds, and while I'm no conservative nut-job, I did find it a bit much for them, (my kids are 3 and 6y/o btw which is roughly the age I was when tf first happened to me in 84)... So ROTF in my mind, changed the focus on who TF was aimed at, it's not little kids anymore, barely teenagers either! So what? TF has matured then? Hardly..

I'm with you on everything except the twins, and the farting robot.
The twins, while tasteless, were hardly offensive in comparison to some of Hollywood's current entertainment, not to mention some of the most despicable crap that's come in years past. I'm not saying it's right, but we've seen far worse.

As for the farting robot, there was an episode of Beast Wars where Rhinox farted constantly. I rarely, if ever, hear anyone complain about it. (That's not saying they haven't, I just haven't heard it.)

Autobot032 wrote:
As for the sense of humor in the film...yes, it did cross a line and it wasn't suitable for kids. Why they went that route is not mysterious. Parents today just aren't doing their jobs as well as they should. Kids are filthmouthed, ill tempered little monsters when they want to be, and they've said far worse than we have. They say things today, that I'd have never dreamed of saying to my parents at their age. Because it's become socially acceptable, they're going to go with that kind of humor. The more offensive, the more it sells. Sad but true.

gigazarak wrote:

Autobot032 wrote:
Oh, I'm sure you could probably finagle an Oscar caliber level of writing out of the mythos (though I'm honestly not sure it's even remotely possible...), but would it be worth it? I don't think so. I'm betting it would be boring, it wouldn't make much money, and it would effectively kill the film franchise.

They could always reboot, nothing will kill a franchise like TF, you're kidding yourself if you think that something will. It's a long standing juggernaut of a toy-line, just think of how many toys you buy, and multiply that by a large percentage OF THE ENTIRE FRICKEN WORLD, it's not going away any time soon.

I don't think that those that decry ROTF as a POS, aren't doing so because they want Shakespeare, they just want a movie that doesn't add pointless juvenile garbage to a universe that is full of, as you say "explosion-a-rama, popcorn flick FUN" opportunities!

Oh, I have no problem with a reboot...when the time is right. That time is not now. Spider-Man "4" is proof of that. The Incredible Hulk is further proof of that. And I'm not kidding myself here.

If the next movie(s) perform like a 3rdquel, etc normally does, that means the audience is starting to thin out. Kids are growing up way too fast, and we're pushing them to do so. If kids stop buying, parents will. If they don't make TFs worth buying, we'll stop buying as well. G1 died, no ifs, ands, or buts.

Until G2 came along, TF was dead in the water, at least as far as the US is concerned. Let's face it, G2 crashed and burned here. Hard. Beast Wars was the silver lining and singlehandedly revived a dead franchise. If it weren't for Jurassic Park being the super hit it was, I don't think Beast Wars would've taken off as well as it did. Once the public and business worlds saw that kids really do love animals and dinosaurs, they figured out ways to cash in. Hasbro just had an idea that was even more brilliant than JP (at least in terms of toys) But, if it weren't for those happy coincidences...TF would be dead in the water.

Autobot032 wrote:
So, to say that they won't run out of ideas, to say that it's not possible for the audience to dry up, for kids to outgrow them completely...is utter silliness. All I'm saying is that we should enjoy the ride while it lasts, not overthink every piece of it and suck the fun out of it before it's done for us.

And I don't think the franchise needs more juvenile humor. Quite the opposite, in fact. It needs GOOD humor. (not the ice cream, it sucks) It needs to be above the gutter, and it's possible to do so. I was one of the first people to complain about them talking about masturbation in the first film. It blew my mind that such a joke would be in a movie like TransFormers. I couldn't wrap my mind around it being in there, and why they thought it would "fit". And it's currently one of the reasons why I can't stand the first movie any more.

gigazarak wrote:

Autobot032 wrote:
This is immature, puddle deep, explosion-a-rama, popcorn flick FUN. That's how it's supposed to be. If you want deep, thought provoking science fiction, it exists. It just doesn't seem to in the world of TransFormers.

Once you realize that this is supposed to be all for FUN, not profit (except Hasbro's), not srs business, then perhaps you'll be able to fully enjoy it.

Yeah but what kind of fun!? Just because you find certain things fun, doesn't mean that everyone else does!

Fair enough. I should clarify. I mean fun in the sense that it's escapist entertainment, that for the most part it leaves you with a smile on your face, and it's usually a good time had by all. That feeling of no buyers remorse when you spend money on that ticket. That kind of fun. I fully believe the film franchise is capable of delivering that experience, and it has for me and many others, but I also believe it needs to be cleaned up, and made accessible to everyone. I've never said the films were perfect, and I won't, because they aren't. They need a lot of work, they really do. But they do provide a source of fun, you need only be willing to look past certain issues and embrace the inner kid to do so. However, if after all that, it's still not your cup of tea, so what? That's fine! If it doesn't make you happy, there's nothing wrong with that. Nothing will please everyone, all of the time. It's impossible. If you didn't like it, there's something else in the TF world that will. We shouldn't let the movies be the end all, be all of the TransFormers brand.

gigazarak wrote:

Autobot032 wrote:
I don't mind the movies getting darker and more serious, within reason, but the awe and wow factor in the first movie where we first meet Optimus and company is what this franchise needs. It needs humor, it needs liveliness, it needs more fun.

We grew up, we didn't grow old. Don't make the franchise do the same.

Woah! erm long post!...

Lets see Unicron and the Quintessons in the third film! Would make sense given that G1 Season 3 introduced the Quints, and Unicron happened before season 3, theres your "placating the G1 fans" covered! But Unicron will probably be a big farting ass or something, and the Quints, well maybe they'll become like hentacle **** monsters, Bah! who am I kidding!? That isn't adult, depraved, despicable, ugly and horrendous enough damnit! I simply can't wait for what they'll do next...

I'd surely hope Unicron doesn't make an appearance in the film series. There's just no way to capture him on film, correctly. He'll either be a massive joke, or a downtrodden bore.

The Quintessons (minus the hentacle thing...) just wouldn't fit either. I think they worked in G1 because G1 came out in a time when we were far more innocent, we were still wowed by the wonders of our world, and there was no question, G1 was 5 star entertainment. But, now that we're older, we can see both ends of the argument, and that G1 isn't what we thought it was, it just seems to me that things like Unicron and the Quintessons wouldn't work. Not in any respectable way.

Hot Rod/Rodimus Prime, Ultra Magnus, Blurr, etc? Yeah, they could work. But, for the most part, some things are better left to rest in the past.

And if Shia wants this film to be better than the last two, and have more class, then he needs to bring some to it as well. Tell Bay and the writers "No, I'm not going to spew a line about finding a tighter shirt. It's just a cheap laugh and it's stupid." and actually put some work into his performance. Megan Fox definitely needs to do the same. Especially Fox. Geez.

People blame Bay all the time, but...couldn't the actors or producers say "You know what? Let's film this scene THAT way. Let's try it and see if it sticks." But instead they say "Wait. I get to talk about man piss* and collect a check? Dumb me down. Now. ACTION!"

*= behind the scenes of TF1, filming in the L.A. River, cracking jokes about sitting in man piss, etc. While it's funny because it's true, don't be all guttural off camera when you think no one is looking, go back to being guttural on camera, and then bitch about it in the public eye.

That's not only two faced and hypocritical, it's pathetic.

Autobot032 wrote:
If Shia truly wants TF3 to be the best, then he needs to step up and take some of the responsibility. Bay's been taking heat for a long while, he really doesn't need any more, but the rest of the people behind the camera, and those in front of it...yeah.

Maybe if they tried just a little bit more, they might just make a hit and with class.

omega666 wrote:I loved this movie. I really do not see what the problem is. People expect some Oscar winning movie. It's Transformers. I got what I want out of it and was happy. Robots beating the hell out of other robots.

Diem wrote:I hated those scenes and I personally wish they weren't there but Bay's not wrong in inserting such scenes if the general public loves them.

RiddlerJ wrote:I don't buy that Shia really belives his comments. I think, now that they're revving up for a third movie, they want to get as many people as they can so they'll have cast and crew members now agree with the critics and assure them that it'll be better this time. Now that's they've made all their money from amovie they supposedly were all ashamed of.

First-Aid wrote:OK, let me clarity my point a little bit from WAAAAAAAAAAYYYY back when I posted (wow there are some LOOONG posts in this thread).

Yes Sam's parents were kidnapped and he was thrust into the middle of the war. But, honestly, at this point there are a very small number of humans who have been affected by the war. The attacks in the second movie can be explained off as terrorist attacks. The global hack can be explained as a terrorist group trying to scare the populace. We honestly have yet to see any serious consequences to the human race from this war. Why? At this point there are not enough TransFormers on Earth to do large scale damage and cause the proper panic that an alien war would potential induce. I would LOVE to see that aspect explored.

gigazarak wrote:

Autobot032 wrote:

gigazarak wrote:

Autobot032 wrote:

gigazarak wrote:

Evil_the_Nub wrote:

First-Aid wrote:One of the biggest allures for me IS the human element, but not the element of participation of humans. I'm looking at the war itself. Remember their teaser posters for the first one? "Their war. Our world." The whole story is supposed to be about a war between two factions of alien robots...BUT WITH HUMANS CAUGHT IN THE MIDDLE. There really was not a lot of the "caught in the middle" aspect in the second movie. To me, THAT is the human element...the humans getting in the way of the war, and the consequences of that. If this is what they are talking about- and judging by the way Shia is saying humans are dying left and right- then they are definitely on the right track. That way you get giant robots fighting everywhere, but the humans getting killed in the middle and the consequences of such.

That's what the movie was about, Sam got caught in the middle of the war. The Decepticons attacked Earth and kidnapped his parents to get a hold of him. You can't get more in the middle than that.

Well First-Aid did say that...

First-Aid wrote:There really was not a lot of the "caught in the middle" aspect in the second movie.

Which is true I think.

I'm with Nub on this one. You don't get much more caught in the middle than having your family kidnapped by the villain(s), and having to be a hero not only for yourself, but your alien friends.

I'm...a little confused. Did anyone actually see the movie that Nub and I did? I mean, it was clearly TransFormers, and it clearly paid homage to G1 with some of the themes in it, and it had what everyone had asked for: More robots.

I still think people are expecting Oscar material out of this stuff. I think people are looking for Dreamwave level writing, where it's all "srsly" and so on. Well...here's a newsflash for you:

1.) Dreamwave was boring. It was downtrodden, too serious, and lacked any and all fun to be had.

Who was it aimed at? Old fans of G1! Who weren't kids anymore! It's fair to make the comics a little more meaty in terms of themes than the cartoons, you found them boring? Well thats your opinion, and you have a right to it I suppose, more interesting comics for the rest of us...

And more power to you. If you enjoy them, good for you.

gigazarak wrote:

Autobot032 wrote:
2.) TransFormers started out as a hollow cartoon made as a commercial vehicle to sell TOYS. To children. Not Shakesperian drama to adults.

Revenge Of The Fallen WAS TransFormers. It WAS a lot of fun, it was loud, it was obnoxious and it sold toys, just like it's G1 counterpart.

Sure it did sell toys, no doubting you there, but fun huh? Who's having fun!? Lets see what fun we have here...

John Turturros ass
Leg humping robot
Racial stereotype borderline offensive Twins
Farting robot
Robot testicles
Insult after insult to your intelligence..
... god do I need to mention any more!?

Are any of those things G1? it's things like these that bring the tone of the franchise down, to a level lower than just mere kids-fare entertainment, it just becomes depraved and self-indulgent. I took my kids to see the movie, all the borderline adult humour was a bit much for their tiny little minds, and while I'm no conservative nut-job, I did find it a bit much for them, (my kids are 3 and 6y/o btw which is roughly the age I was when tf first happened to me in 84)... So ROTF in my mind, changed the focus on who TF was aimed at, it's not little kids anymore, barely teenagers either! So what? TF has matured then? Hardly..

I'm with you on everything except the twins, and the farting robot.
The twins, while tasteless, were hardly offensive in comparison to some of Hollywood's current entertainment, not to mention some of the most despicable crap that's come in years past. I'm not saying it's right, but we've seen far worse.

As for the farting robot, there was an episode of Beast Wars where Rhinox farted constantly. I rarely, if ever, hear anyone complain about it. (That's not saying they haven't, I just haven't heard it.)

Thats a good point, and you're right, no-one does complain about that, and I certainly don't either, maybe I'm being too harsh, because flatulence is innocent enough, it's crude, but it's all in the way you handle the idea of it. It's a universal "feature" of being human that we can all relate to. So ok, scratch the farting, but it's just another brutal insult to our intelligence, that I just had to mention it, certainly when you consider the rest of the list, it builds up a critical mass enough to think bad things UNIVERSALLY about the movie.

Autobot032 wrote:
As for the sense of humor in the film...yes, it did cross a line and it wasn't suitable for kids. Why they went that route is not mysterious. Parents today just aren't doing their jobs as well as they should. Kids are filthmouthed, ill tempered little monsters when they want to be, and they've said far worse than we have. They say things today, that I'd have never dreamed of saying to my parents at their age. Because it's become socially acceptable, they're going to go with that kind of humor. The more offensive, the more it sells. Sad but true.

gigazarak wrote:

Autobot032 wrote:
Oh, I'm sure you could probably finagle an Oscar caliber level of writing out of the mythos (though I'm honestly not sure it's even remotely possible...), but would it be worth it? I don't think so. I'm betting it would be boring, it wouldn't make much money, and it would effectively kill the film franchise.

They could always reboot, nothing will kill a franchise like TF, you're kidding yourself if you think that something will. It's a long standing juggernaut of a toy-line, just think of how many toys you buy, and multiply that by a large percentage OF THE ENTIRE FRICKEN WORLD, it's not going away any time soon.

I don't think that those that decry ROTF as a POS, aren't doing so because they want Shakespeare, they just want a movie that doesn't add pointless juvenile garbage to a universe that is full of, as you say "explosion-a-rama, popcorn flick FUN" opportunities!

Oh, I have no problem with a reboot...when the time is right. That time is not now. Spider-Man "4" is proof of that. The Incredible Hulk is further proof of that. And I'm not kidding myself here.

If the next movie(s) perform like a 3rdquel, etc normally does, that means the audience is starting to thin out. Kids are growing up way too fast, and we're pushing them to do so. If kids stop buying, parents will. If they don't make TFs worth buying, we'll stop buying as well. G1 died, no ifs, ands, or buts.

Until G2 came along, TF was dead in the water, at least as far as the US is concerned. Let's face it, G2 crashed and burned here. Hard. Beast Wars was the silver lining and singlehandedly revived a dead franchise. If it weren't for Jurassic Park being the super hit it was, I don't think Beast Wars would've taken off as well as it did. Once the public and business worlds saw that kids really do love animals and dinosaurs, they figured out ways to cash in. Hasbro just had an idea that was even more brilliant than JP (at least in terms of toys) But, if it weren't for those happy coincidences...TF would be dead in the water.

You're quoting history, and you're right, but I remain confidant that TF would have found a way, Jurassic Park or not.

Autobot032 wrote:
So, to say that they won't run out of ideas, to say that it's not possible for the audience to dry up, for kids to outgrow them completely...is utter silliness. All I'm saying is that we should enjoy the ride while it lasts, not overthink every piece of it and suck the fun out of it before it's done for us.

And I don't think the franchise needs more juvenile humor. Quite the opposite, in fact. It needs GOOD humor. (not the ice cream, it sucks) It needs to be above the gutter, and it's possible to do so. I was one of the first people to complain about them talking about masturbation in the first film. It blew my mind that such a joke would be in a movie like TransFormers. I couldn't wrap my mind around it being in there, and why they thought it would "fit". And it's currently one of the reasons why I can't stand the first movie any more.

gigazarak wrote:

Autobot032 wrote:
This is immature, puddle deep, explosion-a-rama, popcorn flick FUN. That's how it's supposed to be. If you want deep, thought provoking science fiction, it exists. It just doesn't seem to in the world of TransFormers.

Once you realize that this is supposed to be all for FUN, not profit (except Hasbro's), not srs business, then perhaps you'll be able to fully enjoy it.

Yeah but what kind of fun!? Just because you find certain things fun, doesn't mean that everyone else does!

Fair enough. I should clarify. I mean fun in the sense that it's escapist entertainment, that for the most part it leaves you with a smile on your face, and it's usually a good time had by all. That feeling of no buyers remorse when you spend money on that ticket. That kind of fun. I fully believe the film franchise is capable of delivering that experience, and it has for me and many others, but I also believe it needs to be cleaned up, and made accessible to everyone. I've never said the films were perfect, and I won't, because they aren't. They need a lot of work, they really do. But they do provide a source of fun, you need only be willing to look past certain issues and embrace the inner kid to do so. However, if after all that, it's still not your cup of tea, so what? That's fine! If it doesn't make you happy, there's nothing wrong with that. Nothing will please everyone, all of the time. It's impossible. If you didn't like it, there's something else in the TF world that will. We shouldn't let the movies be the end all, be all of the TransFormers brand.

gigazarak wrote:

Autobot032 wrote:
I don't mind the movies getting darker and more serious, within reason, but the awe and wow factor in the first movie where we first meet Optimus and company is what this franchise needs. It needs humor, it needs liveliness, it needs more fun.

We grew up, we didn't grow old. Don't make the franchise do the same.

Woah! erm long post!...

Lets see Unicron and the Quintessons in the third film! Would make sense given that G1 Season 3 introduced the Quints, and Unicron happened before season 3, theres your "placating the G1 fans" covered! But Unicron will probably be a big farting ass or something, and the Quints, well maybe they'll become like hentacle **** monsters, Bah! who am I kidding!? That isn't adult, depraved, despicable, ugly and horrendous enough damnit! I simply can't wait for what they'll do next...

I'd surely hope Unicron doesn't make an appearance in the film series. There's just no way to capture him on film, correctly. He'll either be a massive joke, or a downtrodden bore.

The Quintessons (minus the hentacle thing...) just wouldn't fit either. I think they worked in G1 because G1 came out in a time when we were far more innocent, we were still wowed by the wonders of our world, and there was no question, G1 was 5 star entertainment. But, now that we're older, we can see both ends of the argument, and that G1 isn't what we thought it was, it just seems to me that things like Unicron and the Quintessons wouldn't work. Not in any respectable way.

Hot Rod/Rodimus Prime, Ultra Magnus, Blurr, etc? Yeah, they could work. But, for the most part, some things are better left to rest in the past.

And if Shia wants this film to be better than the last two, and have more class, then he needs to bring some to it as well. Tell Bay and the writers "No, I'm not going to spew a line about finding a tighter shirt. It's just a cheap laugh and it's stupid." and actually put some work into his performance. Megan Fox definitely needs to do the same. Especially Fox. Geez.

People blame Bay all the time, but...couldn't the actors or producers say "You know what? Let's film this scene THAT way. Let's try it and see if it sticks." But instead they say "Wait. I get to talk about man piss* and collect a check? Dumb me down. Now. ACTION!"

*= behind the scenes of TF1, filming in the L.A. River, cracking jokes about sitting in man piss, etc. While it's funny because it's true, don't be all guttural off camera when you think no one is looking, go back to being guttural on camera, and then bitch about it in the public eye.

That's not only two faced and hypocritical, it's pathetic.

Agreed.

Autobot032 wrote:
If Shia truly wants TF3 to be the best, then he needs to step up and take some of the responsibility. Bay's been taking heat for a long while, he really doesn't need any more, but the rest of the people behind the camera, and those in front of it...yeah.

Maybe if they tried just a little bit more, they might just make a hit and with class.

Shias attitude is a case of "biting the hand that feeds you", which makes him seem a touch ungrateful

KingEmperor wrote:I agree. The actors, writers, and producers are always saying, "this movie is gonna be big, gonna be great, etc." and they help build up the hype. But when it comes out and it's not recieved critically well, they all run for cover and the director takes all the blame. Now, I believe many things in ROTF wasn't necessary and needed to be left out, but all in all, I loved the movie. It was enjoyable.