The Energon Pub

You know what I really want? To see this damn combined mode already! I'm getting impatient

steals_your_goats wrote:You know what I really want? To see this damn combined mode already! I'm getting impatient

hopefully will be revealed this week. Hopefully. i really wanna see it too

Man, there are so many souvenir suggestions in this thread that are extremely impractical in relation to storytelling purposes.

Railbomb wrote:I'm kind of getting tired of people saying "that wouldn't make sense since [INSERT CHARACTER HERE] was born on Earth!" I wasn't really in the fandom back in 2006 but did this happen with Dawn of Future's Past?

Yes, it did. A lot of folks really strongly disliked that DoFP retconned Tigatron and Airazor into being preexisting Cybertronians instead of newly-born Protoforms like the cartoon originally depicted them and all other Stasis Pod-born characters.

IDW did something similar in its Beast Wars comics by having a bunch of the non-show characters who emerged from stasis pods on Earth in those comics be given pre-Earth Cybertronian backgrounds written into their Sourcebook bios that overrode their being newborns, and such was equally met with displeasure from the readers.

Though, there is a reason as to how and why both DoFP and IDW's Beast Wars Sourcebook had done this: Both were written by Ben Yee, who came up with the idea (among many other things that made the Sourcebooks infamous).

william-james88 wrote:I dont get it, you would think we'd all have a case of mold fatigue but then if Hasbro were to read all the recent comments they'd be like "Man, we dont need to make new molds, all these people will just settle for repaints, quick scrap those plans for a new Transmetal Megatron mold".

In all fairness, this is a thread about Botcon exclusives, so new molds wouldn't really be an option.

Sabrblade wrote:Though, there is a reason as to how and why both DoFP and IDW's Beast Wars Sourcebook had done this: Both were written by Ben Yee, who came up with the idea (among many other things that made the Sourcebooks infamous).

It surprises me that he was the one to come up with that since he is one of hte biggest BW fans on the planet and I would have assumed he would be loyal to the universe created by the show he is so fond of.

Nemesis Primal wrote:

william-james88 wrote:I dont get it, you would think we'd all have a case of mold fatigue but then if Hasbro were to read all the recent comments they'd be like "Man, we dont need to make new molds, all these people will just settle for repaints, quick scrap those plans for a new Transmetal Megatron mold".

In all fairness, this is a thread about Botcon exclusives, so new molds wouldn't really be an option.

Right you are! But then again Botcon toys are technically there because Hasbro gave them an ok, meaning that they wont be compeating with whatever Hasbro puts out. So by wanting a Botcon figure (which of course would be a repaint/retool) to be the representation of a particular character, that means we are not waiting for Hasbro to make a new mold, no? Then again, it didnt stop them from giving us a rewind a year later so what do I know.

william-james88 wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:Though, there is a reason as to how and why both DoFP and IDW's Beast Wars Sourcebook had done this: Both were written by Ben Yee, who came up with the idea (among many other things that made the Sourcebooks infamous).

It surprises me that he was the one to come up with that since he is one of hte biggest BW fans on the planet and I would have assumed he would be loyal to the universe created by the show he is so fond of.

It was he who also came up with the idea of changing the personalities of all the Japanese-original BWII and BWNeo characters to make them different from their cartoon portrayals. Though, for some like the Jointrons it was for the better, but for the most part, the changes were to made to make the Japanese characters fit more into the more serious world of the American BW cartoon... even though those guys weren't from that same world anyway, but I digress.

william-james88 wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:Though, there is a reason as to how and why both DoFP and IDW's Beast Wars Sourcebook had done this: Both were written by Ben Yee, who came up with the idea (among many other things that made the Sourcebooks infamous).

It surprises me that he was the one to come up with that since he is one of hte biggest BW fans on the planet and I would have assumed he would be loyal to the universe created by the show he is so fond of.

But didn't they refer to them as 'the rest of our crew'? And in the graphic novel, wasn't grimlock 'in stasis' within the pod? It seems to me that to explore the vast uncertainties of the universe, you wouldn't want to land and create a crew of newly formed tfs, wouldn't they be lacking in knowledge and practical experience?

Before the authorial intent became widely known, before "Protoform" being defined in later fiction such as Animated, the Guides, the media surrounding the Uniend stories, all that was presented for fans and writers to interpret "Protoform" was the Beast Wars show itself. And that left it open for vastly different reads on what they were.

Personally, I was right there with Ben's interpretation of them. I watched Beast Wars many times as a kid (in the days of crummy VHS recordings!) and I saw them as some kind of long term stasis for a previously existing crew. Mainly because:

- Primal's reference to them as "our crew" in the first episode.
- The constant talk of memory and personality circuits whenever a new pod landed.
- Protoform X clearly having been a previous individual.
- The "blank protoforms" never being defined. These are what I saw as being the "brand new members of the crew, not existing characters."

So obviously I misinterpreted what they were meant to be. Just like Ben did; I really don't think that he meant to "change" anything about them.

Now that said... Tigatron and Airazor aren't really Unit-2 and Chromia-10 pilot, in my view. The crew of the Axalon tried to save those two by transferring their memories over to blank protoforms, but that data stream wasn't a complete or stable link. And then both pods that crashed had their memory circuits wiped. So there might be some personality similarities, but they might as well be entirely different characters, as their naming implies.

I also thought the protoforms were crew from stasis, and this is during my most recent re watch before Netflix took the vids down. That being said is there any chance we can get any confirmation on what lines we can expect the other figures to come from?

Do you mean the souvenirs?

That will probably have to come via the Twitter or Facebook accounts if it gets revealed before the convention.

TF_JW wrote:Do you mean the souvenirs?

That will probably have to come via the Twitter or Facebook accounts if it gets revealed before the convention.

Yes! Sorry I should of made my post clearer

TF_JW wrote:Personally, I was right there with Ben's interpretation of them. I watched Beast Wars many times as a kid (in the days of crummy VHS recordings!) and I saw them as some kind of long term stasis for a previously existing crew.

I'm right there with you. Being really into Science Fiction growing up, I had read several stories with the basic premise of:
-Spacecraft is transporting large numbers of people from point A to point B.
-It only needs minimal crew to pilot it.
-The rest are placed in suspended animation until they arrive.

Logically, that is why the ship was full of robots that weren't active at the beginning of the show. Once awoken, they all had the normal intelligence and skills of an adult (with one exception that had mental injury).

The alternative explanation is that the Axalon was full of robot fetuses. And that just sounded silly.

william-james88 wrote:

Nemesis Primal wrote:

william-james88 wrote:I dont get it, you would think we'd all have a case of mold fatigue but then if Hasbro were to read all the recent comments they'd be like "Man, we dont need to make new molds, all these people will just settle for repaints, quick scrap those plans for a new Transmetal Megatron mold".

In all fairness, this is a thread about Botcon exclusives, so new molds wouldn't really be an option.

Right you are! But then again Botcon toys are technically there because Hasbro gave them an ok, meaning that they wont be compeating with whatever Hasbro puts out. So by wanting a Botcon figure (which of course would be a repaint/retool) to be the representation of a particular character, that means we are not waiting for Hasbro to make a new mold, no? Then again, it didnt stop them from giving us a rewind a year later so what do I know.

I think it's a case of not expecting Hasbro to do it anyhow, but I don't get people so I'm probably off base.

Hey!

One more Souvenir figure idea:

Transformers Adventure Grimlock (the Fall of Cybertron mold remolded heavily as a Japan exclusive RiD Grimlock) with Fall of Cybertron Grimlock head.

In the unreleased G2 Dinostripe deco.

With G2 and Maximal (or Predacon!) stickers both available.

Portraying Grimlock IN FICTION as one of the first Maximals.

Regardless, in fiction, yeah. This set takes place not long after G1 and long before Optimus Primal came online at the VERY DAWN of the Beast Wars.

So what makes sense here is Autobots and Decepticons who have undergone the Maximal Upgrade (which Arcee and Rodimus did in many continuities) in a time period when Maximal doesn't refer at all to having a Beast Mode and where Predacon doesn't necessarily either.

Megatron isn't even called Megatron at this point if he's even online. In terms of Fun Pub/Wings, Galvatron also never reverted to being Megatron (at least not yet unless they decided to throw in a G2 tank deco as a post-Galvatron form). Cryotek is a contender although he might be young at this point.

At this point:

Galvatron and Optimus appear to be in stasis unless the bio cards are in continuity in which case Galvatron reverted to being Megatron, took up a stealth bomber combined form with a resurrected Starscream, and both of them died while Prime and Hound were sent to the Transtech universe. Either way, this is an era where G1 Megas, Hound, Screamer, and Prime are off the table. Although Starscream's ghost apparently has a habit of coming back in all eras with new bodies, either his own or other people's.

The Great War is over.

The Predacons (the ones who form Predaking) broke away and rejected the peace treaty. Ravage has sided with them. Tarrantulas and the Tripredacus Council have just emerged in stasis pods that the Predacons found, with hints that they are agents of Unicorn eager to restart the Great War by bolstering the combiner Predacons' ranks. The Sharkticons may also be working as Predacons now.

Cryotek is probably out there.

The Autobots are on the verge of a Maximal Upgrade which will PROBABLY result in Rodimus becoming a Maximal car and Matrix templar (which tends to happen) and Arcee becoming a pink spider. Daniel Witwicky is PROBABLY going to die (he tends to around this point) but his consciousness may survive in an Autobot Spike type situation where he gets placed in a Transformer body. Likewise, Prowl's clone, Prowl 2, is usually running around at this point in continuity and may be about to take the plunge and become a Maximal and, eventually, an Owl.

This whole line seems to be set six or seven years after Season 3 of the G1 cartoon, in a continuity with additional elements drawn from the various toylines, including Classics, G2, and Machine Wars. (But also with repurposed toys from other lines. So the Japan exclusive Black Perceptor named Magnificus is running around and I think for some reason that Soundwave is now in the form of the Soundblaster War for Cybertron repaint.)

I think at most, we might see something like BW Megatron before he was Megatron as a young lieutenant.

Tying in the general lore about post-G1, pre-BW, there are a couple of other things we know about this era:

There is a chance Sideswipe may defect to the other side, presumably becoming a Predacon. Bumblebee has a couple of identities left to take on post-Goldbug, which we know the names of thanks to Devastation.

Everytime I see one of the notifications for this thread, I jump eagerly to it, waiting to see the combined mode show up

I think Botcon is a bit past ideas for this year's souvenir set. I think we are better calling these predictions instead.

I think almost everyone would be happy if they just made this:

Don't mean to be dense but who's that mock up supposed to represent?

@D-max I do the same, I hope it's worth the wait!

Cryotek, as he was represented in the Max-Cops stories associated with Dawn of Future's Past.

ZeroWolf wrote:Don't mean to be dense but who's that mock up supposed to represent?

@D-max I do the same, I hope it's worth the wait!

Yeah I dont know who that is either. Even with the reveal above that it is cryotech, I never read that story. Dont know if more people would be happy or more people would just be scratching their heads not knowing who it is.

william-james88 wrote:

ZeroWolf wrote:Don't mean to be dense but who's that mock up supposed to represent?

@D-max I do the same, I hope it's worth the wait!

Yeah I dont know who that is either. Even with the reveal above that it is cryotech, I never read that story. Dont know if more people would be happy or more people would just be scratching their heads not knowing who it is.

Perhaps this would shed some light - http://botcon.com/archive/story/characters/cryotek.html

PREDACON: Cryotek

FUNCTION: Criminal Overlord

"War is good for businessÖ or pleasure."

Profile: Cryotek is one of the most deadly and mysterious figures in the history of Cybertron's criminal underworld. Though he was once considered one of the planet's most gifted engineers, Cryotek became increasingly dissatisfied with the actions of the Predacon ruling class - leaders who he felt had too quickly abandoned the classical Decepticon philosophies of conquest and deceit. Relying on the more illicit opportunities available to a being of his considerable skills and intellect, Cryotek eventually became one of the most dangerous outlaws on Cybertron - one more than willing to apply his scientific talents to the less-than-noble pursuits of extortion, theft, and criminal mayhem. Cryotek's logical mind and pragmatic bent have made him an extremely successful gangster, one who approaches each new "business venture" with the discipline of a trained researcher. Nevertheless, Cryotek does find the time to take great pleasure in his work.

The ingenious malefactor behind the theft of the legendary Golden Disc and one of Megatron's earliest mentors, Cryotek was eventually betrayed by this former pupil as Megatron fled Cybertron to pursue his fortunes on prehistoric Earth. Upon Megatron's return, Cryotek struck up a bargain with his old student, willingly "assisting" Megatron with the elimination of his hated beast form - or at least those elements that Cryotek could most readily exploit! Unprepared for the painful metamorphosis involved in assuming Megatron's Transmetal II body, Cryotek was sent into temporary stasis lock, allowing his research and development operations to fall into Megatron's waiting hands. Left betrayed both by his former protÈgÈ and his own pursuit of power, Cryotek recovered only in time to see his empire - and Cybertron - fall completely to Megatron's sinister designs.

Abilities: Aside from his impressive intellect and scientific acumen, Cryotek is armed with a variety of deadly weapons in both beast and robot forms. In either mode, Cryotek is capable of firing supercooled blasts of ammonia from the hoarfrost projector mounted in his dragon head; Cryotek's precise control over this weapon allows him to freeze or desiccate nearly any object in its path. Cryotek's deadly jaws are also capable of firing two independently targetable plasma torpedoes, each with an effective range of several hundred miles. His deadliest weapon, perhaps, is based on one of his most prized inventions - the Spark extractor - and is mounted on the tail of his beast form. Swooping through battle like an icy demon, Cryotek will often set down on one of his enemies, armored claws bared, only to rend a still pulsing Spark violently from their body - leaving his Targetmaster protÈgÈ, Chro, to pick at their remains. Although intelligent and logical to the extreme, Cryotek is still an extremely vicious fighter.

Weaknesses: Cryotek has no serious physical weaknesses, most explicitly due to the enhancements he has made to his already impressive Transmetal II superstructure. Should his carefully laid plans be foiled, Cryotek can be sent into intense periods of isolation and malaise - though his plans are not often foiled!

Along with this:

Railbomb wrote:I think almost everyone would be happy if they just made this:

That was SO long ago, we have an increasing number of fans who probably weren't even BORN when the story with Cryotek in that form came out.

Oh, I know the toy quite well then but not the character using the super link laserwave mold.

Actually you really want to make me trip, have Hasbro rerelease the japan version of that toy which actually came with a Spark avatar

G.B. Blackrock wrote:

Railbomb wrote:I think almost everyone would be happy if they just made this:

That was SO long ago, we have an increasing number of fans who probably weren't even BORN when the story with Cryotek in that form came out.

2006? Really? While there may be more kids are fans right now that were born after 2006 how many are going to BotCon? They would have to be 10 or younger. BotCon's exclusives aren't really targeted at a young audience. The target is older fans and while I may be on the younger side of the spectrum at 18, I see no reason that an obscure BW character like Cryotek shouldn't be considered if we continue to get piles upon piles of obscure G1 characters from the club.

Railbomb wrote:

G.B. Blackrock wrote:

Railbomb wrote:I think almost everyone would be happy if they just made this:

That was SO long ago, we have an increasing number of fans who probably weren't even BORN when the story with Cryotek in that form came out.

2006? Really? While there may be more kids are fans right now that were born after 2006 how many are going to BotCon? They would have to be 10 or younger. BotCon's exclusives aren't really targeted at a young audience. The target is older fans and while I may be on the younger side of the spectrum at 18, I see no reason that an obscure BW character like Cryotek shouldn't be considered if we continue to get piles upon piles of obscure G1 characters from the club.

First of all, let's stipulate that I'm not arguing for a majority of BotCon-attendees younger than 10.

That said, there ARE an increasing number of kids at each BotCon, who wouldn't get nor care about the reference. That said, they wouldn't be against such a toy, either, so that's not (in itself) a reason not to do the toy.

Indeed, I think a Cryotek toy would be very popular. I'm not necessarily convinced that using this 10-year-old idea is a particularly viable one. Again, I'm hardly opposed to it, but given the apparent difficulty and uncertainty that comes whenever an old mold is attempted (is it even viable? does anyone, even at Hasbro/Takara, even know?) and the availability of other, more recent, viable alternatives for Cryotek... well, I just prefer to wait and see. (This doesn't even get into the apparent reality that Hasbro's pushing BotCon to tie their offerings more closely to Hasbro's retail offerings than ever before)

But, back on point. Just being old enough isn't enough reason to remember and care about the reference, either. I'd be willing to bet that more fans remember and care about the Tripredacus Council (arguably the very definition of obscurity. However important they were to the plotline of "The Agenda," they were on-screen for all of 5 minutes, if that) than remember and care that Cryotek was once depicted as a repaint of Energon Shockblast.

Because I'm sure I'll be misconstrued if I don't repeat myself. NONE of this is to say that it's not a cool idea. My point is simply that it's not terribly likely. Should it be considered? Sure, if one of the powers-that-be even remembers to think of it (that ship's, of course, sailed by now. These toys were locked down a year ago, behind the scenes).

But are they likely to even think of it? I'm doubtful.