The Energon Pub

Ironhidensh wrote:Technically speaking that is still Superman existing in the arrow /flash universe. The shadow man's point is still valid.

Technically speaking...............you are wrong.

Technically speaking.........it would mean that "A" Superman exists somewhere in some universe, within the MULTIVERSE that arrow /flash universe is or may be a part of.

RAR wrote:I spot a contradiction - or at least an oddity.

no mistakes here.

the current DC films are not sharing a continuity/universe with the new DC shows...likewise the new dc tv shows do not share continuity/universe with Smalville or other older DC tv shows.

as far as we know here are the current DC continuity/.universes

DC movies universe [man of steel,BvS,Suicide squad, Wonderwoman]

Gotham tv show universe

I Zombie tv universe

Supergirl tv universe

Lucifer tv universe

Arrow/Flash/Constantine/DC legends of tomorrow tv universe

recent events in Flash suggest that all these universes may be connected threw a multiverse

While not official confirmation, Snyder likes the idea of multiple universes

"I think that's sort of the thing I've embraced, and as opposed to trying to shoehorn all of these storylines into a single universe, we let the characters exist in multi-universe"

Which is pretty much what most of us have been saying.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

ZeroWolf wrote:Will this be a different dimension deal? Like how Jay garrick was introduced or is it taking place on the same world?

Also what continuity issues? Everything has been pretty self contained so far

short and simple.

if they connect the shows as 1 universe-1 continuity there will be 1 major continuity issue.

in the arrow/flash universe people with extra ordinary powers "meta-humans" are a relatively new development, that started becoming known within the last 2 or 3 years in the a/f universe.

in Supergirls universe the same is not so, Superman has been active for well over 15 years fighting super powered meta-humans and presumably aliens.

so the logical course would be to have this be similar to the Jay Garrick introduction

That would mean a lot more if they didn't make a point that metahumans could exist without being anywhere near the particle accelerator explosion, as was the case with Deathbolt.

And also, Superman isn't a metahuman, he's an alien. He's no more of a metahuman than John Constantine or Vandal Savage.

Shadowman wrote:That would mean a lot more if they didn't make a point that metahumans could exist without being anywhere near the particle accelerator explosion, as was the case with Deathbolt.

And also, Superman isn't a metahuman, he's an alien. He's no more of a metahuman than John Constantine or Vandal Savage.

Really?.....lets see, did I mention the particle accelerator explosion?did i say it was the source of all meta-humans?

NOPE....Meta-humans got named in the Flash show but first appeared in Arrow.Did you forget Slade or any of the others effected by his blood.Asnyway, the point is not what created the metahumans but that they re a new thing to that universe, at least in the public eye.As far as public knowledge, people with powers are a new development of the last 3 or so years

And also,did I say or imply Superman was a metahuman?

NOPE....what i said was that in the Supergirl universe, Superman has been fighting metahumans for over 15 years....publically.So the public has known about such things for at least that long

So, my point still holds

and btw, Superman,Martian Manhunter (other aliens) as well as Wonder Woman (a near-goddess) and Aquaman (an Atlantean) are referred to in many instances as "metahumans." It can refer to anyone with extranormal powers, no matter the origins and including those not born with such powers but were permantantly altered/mutated like Vandal Savage

watched episode 3 of Legends Of Tomorrow and still it remains great

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:NOPE....Meta-humans got named in the Flash show but first appeared in Arrow.Did you forget Slade or any of the others effected by his blood.Asnyway, the point is not what created the metahumans but that they re a new thing to that universe, at least in the public eye.

No, I didn't, but thanks for proving my point!

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:As far as public knowledge, people with powers are a new development of the last 3 or so years

And people with extranormal abilities have existed for thousands of years, so that point is moot.

Also how many superhero origin stories, especially adapatations, had the hero remain, at most, an urban legend at first? Like, 90% of them?

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:And also,did I say or imply Superman was a metahuman?

Right here:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:in the arrow/flash universe people with extra ordinary powers "meta-humans" are a relatively new development, that started becoming known within the last 2 or 3 years in the a/f universe.

in Supergirls universe the same is not so, Superman has been active for well over 15 years fighting super powered meta-humans and presumably aliens.

So when you say "Metahumans have only been well known for 2-3 years" then follow it up with "Superman has been fighting crime for 15 years" that implys you're talking about Superman, not specifically his rogues gallery.

Also I haven't really been keeping up with Supergirl, but have they been getting into what Superman's rogues gallery is looking like on that show? Or are you just assuming he's been fighting metahumans and aliens?

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:So, my point still holds

Yeah, well, mine does too, regardless of how much you want to play Devil's Advocate with every single thing I say. Regardless of how many leaps in logic you'd have to make in order to do so.

You used to be better than this.

Shadowman wrote:No, I didn't, but thanks for proving my point!...

And people with extranormal abilities have existed for thousands of years, so that point is moot....

Also how many superhero origin stories, especially adapatations, had the hero remain, at most, an urban legend at first? Like, 90% of them?

how was your point made?

as far as we know, maybe the Hawks had abilities for thousands of years, maybe there were others, even if others were thought of as urban legend at first............

even if all that is true its irreverent.

because as far AS THE PUBLIC GOS, THEY DID NOT EXIST YET.
they were not in the daily news paper, or the 11 oclock news report, regular people did not know people with powers were a thing untill the last 3 years in the arrow universe.

in the supergirl universe, Superman has been in the public eye fighting other people with powers "metahumans" for over 15 years..,not urban legends but a well publicized and documented super powered hero fighting super powered bad guys

sorry but you have no point.

Shadowman wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:And also,did I say or imply Superman was a metahuman?

Right here:

still waiting.

So when you say "Metahumans have only been well known for 2-3 years" then follow it up with "Superman has been fighting crime for 15 years" that implys you're talking about Superman, not specifically his rogues gallery.

read it again
i clearly said Superman is fighting metahumans, so thats a clear distinction between him and those i said hes fighting.

Also I haven't really been keeping up with Supergirl, but have they been getting into what Superman's rogues gallery is looking like on that show? Or are you just assuming he's been fighting metahumans and aliens?

supergirl fought 1, and others were clearly stated to exist

Yeah, well, mine does too,

not yet so far

you are welcome to keep trying.
You used to be better than this at debating.

How about you are both right? Just to end it. Honestly though, shadow was right from the get go. Superman now exists in the CW universe. Which superman or from where doesn't really matter. The point is a superman is now there.

Ironhidensh wrote:How about you are both right? Just to end it. Honestly though, shadow was right from the get go. Superman now exists in the CW universe. Which superman or from where doesn't really matter. The point is a superman is now there.

maybe in the multiverse, but so far it hasnt been proven to be in the arrow universe

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Ironhidensh wrote:How about you are both right? Just to end it. Honestly though, shadow was right from the get go. Superman now exists in the CW universe. Which superman or from where doesn't really matter. The point is a superman is now there.

maybe in the multiverse, but so far it hasnt been proven to be in the arrow universe

Same. Damm. Thing.

Ironhidensh wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Ironhidensh wrote:How about you are both right? Just to end it. Honestly though, shadow was right from the get go. Superman now exists in the CW universe. Which superman or from where doesn't really matter. The point is a superman is now there.

maybe in the multiverse, but so far it hasnt been proven to be in the arrow universe

Same. Damm. Thing.

Technically no. We won't know for certain until Grant Gustin appears on Supergirl and in what role.

They'll mess with the fans heads and have him play wally West

Ironhidensh wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Ironhidensh wrote:How about you are both right? Just to end it. Honestly though, shadow was right from the get go. Superman now exists in the CW universe. Which superman or from where doesn't really matter. The point is a superman is now there.

maybe in the multiverse, but so far it hasnt been proven to be in the arrow universe

Same. Damm. Thing.

no its not.
a universe is singular
a multiverse contains many universes

in this case, the arrow/flash universe is home to earth 1
Jay Garricks universe is home to earth 2.

both of those universes are part of a multiverse that contains ,so far, 52 different universes

now i want to make 1 thing clear, im not saying the shows creators wont force these 2 shows together, i find it quite likely they will, but if they do its going to cause the same kind of internal logic issues that later episodes of smallvile had

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Ironhidensh wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Ironhidensh wrote:How about you are both right? Just to end it. Honestly though, shadow was right from the get go. Superman now exists in the CW universe. Which superman or from where doesn't really matter. The point is a superman is now there.

maybe in the multiverse, but so far it hasnt been proven to be in the arrow universe

Same. Damm. Thing.

no its not.
a universe is singular
a multiverse contains many universes

in this case, the arrow/flash universe is home to earth 1
Jay Garricks universe is home to earth 2.


both of those universes are part of a multiverse that contains ,so far, 52 different universes

So what you're saying is, Superman doesn't exist in the Arrowverse because he's not from Earth 1. Which would mean Zoom also doesn't exist in the Arrowverse.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:now i want to make 1 thing clear, im not saying the shows creators wont force these 2 shows together, i find it quite likely they will

What tipped you off? Was it the confirmation of a crossover episode?

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:but if they do its going to cause the same kind of internal logic issues that later episodes of smallvile had

Because none of these shows have undergone Retcons before...

Shadowman wrote:So what you're saying is, Superman doesn't exist in the Arrowverse because he's not from Earth 1. Which would mean Zoom also doesn't exist in the Arrowverse.

not quite

what im saying is that so far, there is not conclusive evidence that "A" Superman, native to the earth 1 universe, aka Arrow-verse,is known to exist.

as far as Zoom goes, all we seem to know is he originated on earth 2, but they could always trow us a twist and say hes from any other earth

Zoom is travelling from one universe to the next, but hes only from 1 originally, 1 universe/continuity is his home universe.

What tipped you off? Was it the confirmation of a crossover episode?

a crossover is not cretin proof they are going to force the shows together in 1 continuity/universe.

maybe Supergirl is from earth 2, or earth 52, or earth take your pick, its possible Flash or Supergirl will jump universes for them to have the crossover

Because none of these shows have undergone Retcons before...

im not sure if we can say any have happened yet in these particular shows.
but yes, its very possible and likely such things can happen

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Shadowman wrote:So what you're saying is, Superman doesn't exist in the Arrowverse because he's not from Earth 1. Which would mean Zoom also doesn't exist in the Arrowverse.

not quite

what im saying is that so far, there is not conclusive evidence that "A" Superman, native to the earth 1 universe, aka Arrow-verse,is known to exist.

There's also no evidence that he doesn't exist.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:as far as Zoom goes, all we seem to know is he originated on earth 2, but they could always trow us a twist and say hes from any other earth

Zoom is travelling from one universe to the next, but hes only from 1 originally, 1 universe/continuity is his home universe.

Yes, but by not originating in Earth 1, that means he doesn't exist in the main continuity, as you yourself keep explaining in regards to Superman.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Ironhidensh wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Ironhidensh wrote:How about you are both right? Just to end it. Honestly though, shadow was right from the get go. Superman now exists in the CW universe. Which superman or from where doesn't really matter. The point is a superman is now there.

maybe in the multiverse, but so far it hasnt been proven to be in the arrow universe

Same. Damm. Thing.

no its not.

Yes it is. If and when the writers say so. Its a tv show, your fanciful logic doesn't matter, only what the writers say.

Again, logic does. Not. Matter. Only what the script says. See Zoom for that.

Ironhidensh wrote:Yes it is. If and when the writers say so. Its a tv show, your fanciful logic doesn't matter, only what the writers say.

Again, logic does. Not. Matter. Only what the script says. See Zoom for that.

No its not
And the writers have gone out of their way to explain thats its not.
Early in this season they explained in basic and simple detail that Earth 1 was only 1 universe in a multiverse of likely infinite number. ...soon after .we are told that their are likely 52 different earths/universes and we meet some characters from earth 2 and Zoom is one of them

aaqin, the writers have gone out of their way to tell us that universe and multiverse are not the same thing.

Zoom, Harry#2,Jay Garrick, and others from earth 2 exsit in the earth 1 continuity/universe because they have traveled to it.

so far we have no such evidence in Supermans case

as for the crossover,
maybe they will say its 1 universe, it would not surprise me if they did it, even with the internal history flaWS it would create

Maybe like Zoom, Supergirl is from an other universe/continuity/earth

maybe on supergirls earth, the Flash is a tv show that airs on the CW and they are filming an episode in supergirls city

Shadowman wrote:There's also no evidence that he doesn't exist.

and...............whats your point?

i never claimed he did or did not exist.............it was you that made that claim when you said about the crossover..............Superman officially exists in the Arrowverse.

my reply
A] thats not necessarily true
B] if they try to force them together they will create continuity issues

Yes, but by not originating in Earth 1, that means he doesn't exist in the main continuity, as you yourself keep explaining in regards to Superman

[

twisting my words wont make you right.
Zoom, Harry#2,Jay Garrick, and others from earth 2 exsit in the earth 1 continuity/universe because they have traveled to it.

so far we have no such evidence any "Superman" from any earth has done the same.We also have no indication that arrowverse/earth 1 has a superman of its own

sure its possible, and you can believe it if you want.

but bits by no means "official" as you claimed

look! all i know is that Flash is supposed to meet up with Supergirl in some other multiverse! now whether Superman is there or not remains to be seen, it's possible! & since we're dealing with multiverses, then i guess normal rules don't always apply.

Stuartmaximus wrote:look! all i know is that Flash is supposed to meet up with Supergirl in some other multiverse! now whether Superman is there or not remains to be seen, it's possible! & since we're dealing with multiverses, then i guess normal rules don't always apply.

anything is possible

"as for the crossover,
maybe they will say its 1 universe, it would not surprise me if they did it, even with the internal history flaWS it would create

Maybe like Zoom, Supergirl is from an other universe/continuity/earth

maybe on supergirls earth, the Flash is a tv show that airs on the CW and they are filming an episode in supergirls city"

How very meta (the part about maybe flash filming in supergirls city), reminds me of what they did with superboy prime for a while, loved how they made him an Internet troll on dc's own forums

ZeroWolf wrote:How very meta (the part about maybe flash filming in supergirls city), reminds me of what they did with superboy prime for a while, loved how they made him an Internet troll on dc's own forums

is "meta" a complement?

in your case it could very well be, he's usually not that complimentary