The Energon Pub

Sabrblade wrote:Ah.

But they did eventually comply.

And threw in some referneces such as Armada Unicron's destroyed remains floating in space, and Energon Alexis's cameo.

too little, too late

I wouldn't say that since the actual dialogue itself hasn't been altered, and the subs don't exist in universe, as they are but a product of the DVD, not the show itself. Spoken dialogue, however, exists within the show's reality.

As a product,released to the west, the sub's are part of the story.Its in place with the goal of telling a story.And due to the translation changes made for this product,with its different lines,and more importantly different character names,,,,I would call it a different continuity.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:And theres Scramble City which features the creation of Trypticon...in the 1980's, while in the US continuity he wasnt created till 2005

Technically Trypticon was created even earlier than that, during the FSRLTF manga, when Metroplex was still being built.

But, yeah, in G1, Trypticon was birthed in 2005. In JG1, he was birthed the late 1980s, and rebirthed in 2010.

If I recall,neither Metro or Trypy came online in those mangas.

Trypticon (or rather, Dinosaurer) fights against a giant hologram of Metroplex before Metroplex is completed in FSRLTF issue 6.

Sabrblade wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:And theres Scramble City which features the creation of Trypticon...in the 1980's, while in the US continuity he wasnt created till 2005

Technically Trypticon was created even earlier than that, during the FSRLTF manga, when Metroplex was still being built.

But, yeah, in G1, Trypticon was birthed in 2005. In JG1, he was birthed the late 1980s, and rebirthed in 2010.

If I recall,neither Metro or Trypy came online in those mangas.

Trypticon (or rather, Dinosaurer) fights against a giant hologram of Metroplex before Metroplex is completed in FSRLTF issue 6.

issue 6?????????damn its been so long I dint remember there were that many issues at that point

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:issue 6?????????damn its been so long I dint remember there were that many issues at that point

8 issues, man. All before Scramble City.

Sabrblade wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:issue 6?????????damn its been so long I dint remember there were that many issues at that point

8 issues, man. All before Scramble City.

yeah I'm getting old, I only remembered it was bearly 1/2 as much

@ stovokor

Did you get sick or something? You never (ever) miss a Tf related trivia(who are you?!)before! What did you do to the real stovokor?!

fenrir72 wrote::shock:

@ stovokor

Did you get sick or something? You never (ever) miss a Tf related trivia(who are you?!)before! What did you do to the real stovokor?!

its still me, my illness took a"turn for the worse".....as they say.Between the meds and the treatments my memory isint what it was.

so its you and not an evil clone? Let me check, you do still carry a matrix inside you right?

* a nod to the G1 episode if you know what I mean

fenrir72 wrote::lol: so its you and not an evil clone? Let me check, you do still carry a matrix inside you right?

* a nod to the G1 episode if you know what I mean

unlike that evil clone that may or may not have had a "copy", I had to sell the one I had to cover my med bills

Btw, seriously, you didn't get sick right?

fenrir72 wrote::lol:

Btw, seriously, you didn't get sick right?

no I really did, my kidneys completely failed and I developed something called "Calciphylaxis"...........which is nasty as hell.

Grrr.

Well, now that Shout! Factory's released all three series on DVD, even more ethnocentric changes have been found.

Many characters in Masterforce got the names of the American characters whose toys they share molds with. Even their human forms! Though, it seems that only those whose toys use the same deco as the American toys were changed, meaning all redecos got to keep their original names.

Lander --> "Landmine"
Diver --> "Waverider"
Phoenix --> "Cloudburst"
Lightfoot --> "Getaway"
Road King --> "Slapdash"
Blood --> "Bomb-Burst"
Dauros --> "Skullgrin"
Gilmer --> "Submarauder"
Wilder --> "Fangry"
Bullhorn --> "Horri-Bull"
Cancer --> "Squeezplay", and "Plague"
Turtler --> "Snaptrap"
Gulf --> "Skalor"
Kraken --> "Seawing"
Lobclaw --> "Nautilator"
King Poseidon --> "Piranacon"
Clouder/Doubleclouder --> "Dealer/Doubledealer"
Guzzle --> "Cindersaur"
Javil --> "Sparkstalker"
Sizzle --> "Flamefeather"
Guardminder --> "Fasttrack"

And, as we anticipated, Godmasters are subbed as "Powermasters," which is just wrong.


With Victory, since there were less American molds, there were less name changes (THANK GOODNESS). Buuuuuuuuut, they still managed to slip some in.

Blacker --> "Gripper"
Holi --> "Stakeout"
Deszaras --> "Deathsaurus" (tolerable, maybe )

And, of course, the Brestforce/Breastforce was subbed with that stupidly PC-sounding name of "Chestforce".

Still better than the crap the Japanese pulled with Beast Wars.

Dead Metal wrote:Still better than the crap the Japanese pulled with Beast Wars.

Irrelevant and off topic.

Sabrblade wrote:

Dead Metal wrote:Still better than the crap the Japanese pulled with Beast Wars.

Irrelevant and off topic.

No, not really.
You're complaining about how the Japanese shows have been Americanised and how that goes against artistic integrity, and I pointed out that the Japanese did worse with Beast Wars where they pretty much just spoofed the show.

Oh they also changed the meaning of the original US show, by changing character names, terminology, the time-line, etc...

Dead Metal wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

Dead Metal wrote:Still better than the crap the Japanese pulled with Beast Wars.

Irrelevant and off topic.

No, not really.
You're complaining about how the Japanese shows have been Americanised and how that goes against artistic integrity, and I pointed out that the Japanese did worse with Beast Wars where they pretty much just spoofed the show.

Oh they also changed the meaning of the original US show, by changing character names, terminology, the time-line, etc...

You're talking about a dub. I'm talking about subs. The JG1 shows themselves have not been changed. The subtitles, however, have. Or at least, they don't match up with what the show's dialogue script says.

If there were ever to be a subtitled version of the Japanese Beast Wars dub, the English subs included in it should very well reflect the goofy nature of that dub, as they are intended to tell us what exactly is being spoken by the characters and not rewrite the meaning of the dialogue.

Sabrblade wrote:

Dead Metal wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

Dead Metal wrote:Still better than the crap the Japanese pulled with Beast Wars.

Irrelevant and off topic.

No, not really.
You're complaining about how the Japanese shows have been Americanised and how that goes against artistic integrity, and I pointed out that the Japanese did worse with Beast Wars where they pretty much just spoofed the show.

Oh they also changed the meaning of the original US show, by changing character names, terminology, the time-line, etc...

You're talking about a dub. I'm talking about subs. The JG1 shows themselves have not been changed. The subtitles, however, have. Or at least, they don't match up with what the show's dialogue script says.

If there were ever to be a subtitled version of the Japanese Beast Wars dub, the English subs included in it should very well reflect the goofy nature of that dub, as they are intended to tell us what exactly is being spoken by the characters and not rewrite the meaning of the dialogue.

Like it or not, but this DVD collection is the official American version of these shows. Had they been dubbed, they would have been the same.

I'm also pretty sure that the subs on Japanese DVDs use Japanese names and terminology instead of the American names and terminology.

And there are parts in these shows that are impossible to translate accurately even with subtitles, especially in Masterforce, which is why the Decepticon Pretenders constantly say "Remember this" while retreating.

Dead Metal wrote:Like it or not, but this DVD collection is the official American version of these shows. Had they been dubbed, they would have been the same.

It's an American product of the Japanese version. These shows do not exist in American continuity.

Dead Metal wrote:I'm also pretty sure that the subs on Japanese DVDs use Japanese names and terminology instead of the American names and terminology.

What subs? The average DVDs in Japan do not have English subtitles.

Dead Metal wrote:And there are parts in these shows that are impossible to translate accurately even with subtitles, especially in Masterforce, which is why the Decepticon Pretenders constantly say "Remember this" while retreating.

Metrodome and Madman both did. As did TV-Nihon. Anything they can do Shout! Factory can do too.

Sabrblade wrote:

Dead Metal wrote:Like it or not, but this DVD collection is the official American version of these shows. Had they been dubbed, they would have been the same.

It's an American product of the Japanese version. These shows do not exist in American continuity.

Dead Metal wrote:I'm also pretty sure that the subs on Japanese DVDs use Japanese names and terminology instead of the American names and terminology.

What subs? The average DVDs in Japan do not have English subtitles.

Dead Metal wrote:And there are parts in these shows that are impossible to translate accurately even with subtitles, especially in Masterforce, which is why the Decepticon Pretenders constantly say "Remember this" while retreating.

Metrodome and Madman both did. As did TV-Nihon. Anything they can do Shout! Factory can do too.

I have the Metrodome release, and the audio cometary explains that there are phrases and situations that are impossible to do, even in subs. And they showed pointed it out on the example of the Decepticon Pretenders, in the subs they say "Remember this", while the Japanese line goes something like "Remember this for I will make you pay for what you did when next we meet" or the like.
The Metrodome release of Headmasters also used the American names instead of the Japanese ones, the only reason the American names weren't used in Masterforce was due to them being completely different characters, like Ginrai.

Dead Metal wrote:I have the Metrodome release, and the audio cometary explains that there are phrases and situations that are impossible to do, even in subs. And they showed pointed it out on the example of the Decepticon Pretenders, in the subs they say "Remember this", while the Japanese line goes something like "Remember this for I will make you pay for what you did when next we meet" or the like.

That's still an attempt to maintain the original message of the dialogue. It may not be "literal", but it's still "faithful" to the spirit of it.

Though, I'm trying to check the episodes myself for these lines, and I haven't found them yet. Do you know which episode(s) this occurred in?

What Shout! Factory has done in certain places, however, is outright ignore any of the original dialogue's meaning, rewriting the subs to say something entirely different than what's being spoken on screen.

Dead Metal wrote:The Metrodome release of Headmasters also used the American names instead of the Japanese ones, the only reason the American names weren't used in Masterforce was due to them being completely different characters, like Ginrai.

U.S. names for characters who are the same are more tolerable than U.S. names for characters who are different. It's the latter that bugs me.

Sabrblade wrote:

Dead Metal wrote:I have the Metrodome release, and the audio cometary explains that there are phrases and situations that are impossible to do, even in subs. And they showed pointed it out on the example of the Decepticon Pretenders, in the subs they say "Remember this", while the Japanese line goes something like "Remember this for I will make you pay for what you did when next we meet" or the like.

That's still an attempt to maintain the original message of the dialogue. It may not be "literal", but it's still "faithful" to the spirit of it.

Though, I'm trying to check the episodes myself for these lines, and I haven't found them yet. Do you know which episode(s) this occurred in?

No idea which episode had that audio commentary, but the Pretenders said it every time they lost a battle and retreated, as in every early episode of the series.

Dead Metal wrote:The Metrodome release of Headmasters also used the American names instead of the Japanese ones, the only reason the American names weren't used in Masterforce was due to them being completely different characters, like Ginrai.

U.S. names for characters who are the same are more tolerable than U.S. names for characters who are different. It's the latter that bugs me.

Well to be fair, Scorponok and Zarak are utterly different in the US and Japan, but they still went with the US names for them.

Dead Metal wrote:No idea which episode had that audio commentary, but the Pretenders said it every time they lost a battle and retreated, as in every early episode of the series.

Hmm. Haven't spotted 'em yet. I'll keep looking.

Dead Metal wrote:Well to be fair, Scorponok and Zarak are utterly different in the US and Japan, but they still went with the US names for them.

I know. And that bugs me. Zarak the character is a Nebulon leader in all continuities. He's not a robot himself.

The Zarak and Scorponok who appeared in The Rebirth aren't the same guys as the Scorponok and MegaZarak from The Headmasters. Even in Japan are they different. In the Japanese version, Lord Zarak keeps his name, while the larger Scorponok robot is named "Scorpion". In The Headmasters, Scorponok is the smaller Headmaster robot and MegaZarak is the large Transtector.

So, who we know as Zarak and Scorponok in Western fiction are known as "Zarak and Scorpion" in Japan, while they know Scorponok and MegaZarak from their portrayal in The Headmasters.

Same with Cerebros vs. Fortress. Who we know as Cerebros is still "Cerebros" in Japan, while Fortress is a different character from The Headmasters.

Sabrblade wrote:

Dead Metal wrote:No idea which episode had that audio commentary, but the Pretenders said it every time they lost a battle and retreated, as in every early episode of the series.

Hmm. Haven't spotted 'em yet. I'll keep looking.

Found it in episode 3. "Oboetero!" was the phrase. TV-Nihon subbed it as "Don't forget this!", which also works like "Remember this!" in keeping true to the spirit of the phrase.

That kind of subbing isn't a problem. It's the kind that defies the spoken dialogue that is.

Sabrblade wrote:

RhA wrote:Also, 'artistic integrity' is taking things a bit too far. These are commisioned toy commercials.

These are no different from any other toyetic anime that get faithfully-translated subtitles on DVD. Why should these be denied the same treatment of accuracy as those other anime?

Just passing through, and none too knowledgable about translations from Japanese, but this is the eternal Transformers argument. We are a passionate fanbase, but should for some reason(s) overlook that passion because the thing we enjoy is 'merely' a toy commerical. Whichever side you're on is essentially perfect justification for whatever opinion you have, i.e the movies. Despite our fandom we should ignore what we don't like because, afterall, they are designed to sell toys and be summer action movies, and if you don't like that, you somehow are taking something you enjoy and are passionate about 'too seriously,' which people can somehow say with a straight face.
These releases are meant for us as older fans, and I'd guess who are primarily in English/non-Japanese speaking locales. Therefore, if they change Convoy to Optimus Prime I see little problem since that's most likely how most people know him. But if substantial parts of a plot or dialogue are changed for no apparent reason, that's bad in general.

Dagon wrote:These releases are meant for us as older fans,

Then explain all the censorship.

Dagon wrote:Therefore, if they change Convoy to Optimus Prime I see little problem since that's most likely how most people know him.

It's not the changing of names for same characters. It's the changing or names for different characters. Fortress is not Cerebros. Blood is not Bomb-Burst. Lightfoot is not Getaway. Wilder is not Fangry. Blacker is not Gripper. Holi is not Stakeout. And so on and so forth.

Dagon wrote:But if substantial parts of a plot or dialogue are changed for no apparent reason, that's bad in general.

Only little things were changed. But there were so many of them made to a ridiculous degree.