The Energon Pub

This question came up in a nonrelated thread. The argument is whether or not Hasbro and Takara would pursue a masterpiece Shockwave at this point since a 3rd party company beat Has/Tak to the punch with the release of Quakewave.

RAcast wrote:

Stormrider wrote:

RAcast wrote:

Stormrider wrote:Sorry, I didn't make very good sense. I meant to say MP Shockwave.

That's a very important distinction, friend! And who knows whether they'll bother, with Quakewave already all over the place. Time will tell.

Not to stray too far from the topic, I don't think that has stopped Takara and Hasbro before.

When have they released a 1st party item right after the release of a similar 3rd party item? That 3rd party Masterpiece-scale Soundwave was never finished, and they certainly haven't made a Classics Sixshot. Nor has HasTak ever made anything Hearts of Steel-related.

That 3rd Party MP Soundwave was announced well before Takara announced MP Soundwave. And once Takara announced their version the 3rd party MP Soundwave had no legs to stand on, and the company threw in the towel.

But I think the bigger picture is that fans crave MP figures (and if you don't believe me just look at how quickly they sell out). There will always be fans that will want the real deal even if they purchased a 3rd party figure.

Quakewave is a good stand in but far from perfect. Also Quakewave was created in small runs. Has/Tak knows this. Here are several figures Has/Tak produced after 3rd party figures: Generations Swerve/iGear Swerve, Gen Cosmos/iGear Cosmos, Gen Springer/FansProject Springer, MP Cassettes/CDMW Power Up sets/Perfect Effect Cassettes, MP11 Starscream w/cornation cloak/TFC Starscream Cloak.

Now, I am not saying that Has/Tak is making MP Shockwave right now. But I am arguing that 3rd party Quakewave does not eliminate the possibility of an official MP Shockwave.

I'm willing to bet that a lot of people who bought a 3rd party shockwave would buy an official one. You also can't count out those of us who are unwilling/able to buy the 3rd party version, but would jump on an official one.

Is MP Shockwave still a possibility?

Short answer:yes.


I dont see nothing preventing it to happen.

Hasbro made a Springer after a Warbot Defender came out, but it definitely was not right away. I think MP Shockwave is a real possibility, but we are going to have to wait awhile because of Quakwave.

I know some have a no 3rd party policy. I like some for Classics, but I refuse to buy MP's made by 3rd parties, so I would welcome an official one. AND I think Takara can do better as good as Quakewave is.

As others have said, the answer is yes.

The 3rd party industry is not the giant that some think it is. Hasbro/TakaraTomy aren't threatened by the 3rd party industry. Transformers 1-3 have made billions of dollars alone in the box office.

G1 Shockwave is a candidate but I'm not sure how much of one right now. TakaraTomy has focused this year and part of the next on bringing several Autobots to the market. That means we should see a rebalancing with a Decepticon heavy MP release schedule in the next couple of years. There are quite a few to choose from and I would say that Galvatron, for example, would be higher up on the list than Shockwave, mainly to pair it up with MP-09.

Once they iron out any legal kinks, Shockwave is indeed a 99% possibility. Omega Supreme and Skylynx are prime example of so called impossible molds that were re-issued (same with Devastator). Those were the Encore line I admit so where does this fit with the MP line? Perfectly!.

If Tomy and Hasbro is willing to risk a re-issue of Fortmax and re imagining of Metroplex, what more a top tier popular purple people eater like Shockwave?

fenrir72 wrote:Once they iron out any legal kinks, Shockwave is indeed a 99% possibility. Omega Supreme and Skylynx are prime example of so called impossible molds that were re-issued (same with Devastator). Those were the Encore line I admit so where does this fit with the MP line? Perfectly!.

If Tomy and Hasbro is willing to risk a re-issue of Fortmax and re imagining of Metroplex, what more a top tier popular purple people eater like Shockwave?

Those came out because Tomy had bought the company that owned them before merging with Takara.

There is nothing that can stop Takara making an MP Shockwave, since it won't be a 100% copy of the original toy. Like with Classics Jetfire and Generations Whirl.

Dead Metal wrote:

fenrir72 wrote:Once they iron out any legal kinks, Shockwave is indeed a 99% possibility. Omega Supreme and Skylynx are prime example of so called impossible molds that were re-issued (same with Devastator). Those were the Encore line I admit so where does this fit with the MP line? Perfectly!.

If Tomy and Hasbro is willing to risk a re-issue of Fortmax and re imagining of Metroplex, what more a top tier popular purple people eater like Shockwave?

Those came out because Tomy had bought the company that owned them before merging with Takara.

There is nothing that can stop Takara making an MP Shockwave, since it won't be a 100% copy of the original toy. Like with Classics Jetfire and Generations Whirl.

Takara Tomy would have no problems releasing a MP Shockwave in terms of legality. Like Dead Metal said, the figure would not be direct a copy of the original just like Classics Jetfire and Generations Whirl aren't direct copies of their G1 molds. They're just updates, that bear striking resembles to G1 molds they no longer have licenses for.

As for the Thrid-party QuakeWave, if anything I would think that would be an excellent gauge of the market for them. What are they on the third wave of production now? The demand is there. If an official version gets released I'll just move QuakeWave to my Classics shelf. He'll tower over the rest of the Decepticons, but so did the G1 toy, so I'm fine with that.

I've also heard that MP Shockwave may be more that just a possibility..................

El Duque wrote:I've also heard that MP Shockwave may be more that just a possibility..................

You tease.

I haven't bought a Quakewave because I'm 99% sure we'll see a Takara one at some point. No idea when, but eventually, I'm sure.

And not to derail this too much, but:

Convotron wrote:The 3rd party industry is not the giant that some think it is.

One of the simplest but truest thoughts I've seen in some time. Just look at Impossible Toys for an example of how a couple poor releases can absolutely crush you. These are not huge companies.

My Quakewave is shipping from Toy Arena now! I brought it knowing that there is no doubt in my mind that Takara will eventually make one. Just that if it takes them 5 years to get to it I'm ok with that now.

ScottyP wrote:

Convotron wrote:The 3rd party industry is not the giant that some think it is.

One of the simplest but truest thoughts I've seen in some time. Just look at Impossible Toys for an example of how a couple poor releases can absolutely crush you. These are not huge companies.

Indeed. I also feel that these guys are also trying to destroy each other. TFC making Predaking after telling MMC they wouldn't. Toyworld competing with Fansproject on brainstorm, Multiple MP huffers. IGears's Gears vs SXS's Gears. I'm sure I missed a lot but. I'm sure these guys want less competition out there. And making a similar product can certainly hurt the other company's results (unique toys Predaking?) I'm sure there will be more third party folds to come.

mooncake623 wrote:My Quakewave is shipping from Toy Arena now! I brought it knowing that there is no doubt in my mind that Takara will eventually make one. Just that if it takes them 5 years to get to it I'm ok with that now.

ScottyP wrote:

Convotron wrote:The 3rd party industry is not the giant that some think it is.

One of the simplest but truest thoughts I've seen in some time. Just look at Impossible Toys for an example of how a couple poor releases can absolutely crush you. These are not huge companies.

Indeed. I also feel that these guys are also trying to destroy each other. TFC making Predaking after telling MMC they wouldn't. Toyworld competing with Fansproject on brainstorm, Multiple MP huffers. IGears's Gears vs SXS's Gears. I'm sure I missed a lot but. I'm sure these guys want less competition out there. And making a similar product can certainly hurt the other company's results (unique toys Predaking?) I'm sure there will be more third party folds to come.

I wouldn't be surprised to see other 3rd parties fold either.

Not only do I have no interest in 3rd party products, I think they're unethical.

I'd buy an official MP Shockwave in a heartbeat. His release is inevitable. Can't wait!

In some ways I do feel 3rd parties are influencing at least Classics/Generations releases though.

I mean, of all the recent characters Hasbro will release they choose Skids and Whirl???? Why?

They could tackle any popular combiner, popular minibot, and chose those two? Really?

It is almost as if between HasTak and 3rd parties those guys were on the last of the list of Season 1 and 2 characters so they decided what the hell??? Why not?

I think that is it for them for early G1, I think generations is going to move on to post 86 movie and other lines now...

Dead Metal wrote:

fenrir72 wrote:Once they iron out any legal kinks, Shockwave is indeed a 99% possibility. Omega Supreme and Skylynx are prime example of so called impossible molds that were re-issued (same with Devastator). Those were the Encore line I admit so where does this fit with the MP line? Perfectly!.

If Tomy and Hasbro is willing to risk a re-issue of Fortmax and re imagining of Metroplex, what more a top tier popular purple people eater like Shockwave?

Those came out because Tomy had bought the company that owned them before merging with Takara.

There is nothing that can stop Takara making an MP Shockwave, since it won't be a 100% copy of the original toy. Like with Classics Jetfire and Generations Whirl.

That was providence DM. Same with Devastar.........providence.

warzon3 wrote:In some ways I do feel 3rd parties are influencing at least Classics/Generations releases though.

I mean, of all the recent characters Hasbro will release they choose Skids and Whirl???? Why?

They could tackle any popular combiner, popular minibot, and chose those two? Really?

It is almost as if between HasTak and 3rd parties those guys were on the last of the list of Season 1 and 2 characters so they decided what the hell??? Why not?

I think that is it for them for early G1, I think generations is going to move on to post 86 movie and other lines now...

they are doing them because of IDW's MTMTEs read it its good you'll enjoy it. Skids is also season 2 of the original G1. and is freaking awesome in IDW. and Whirl is insane. I'm ecstatic to be getting both.

warzon3 wrote:In some ways I do feel 3rd parties are influencing at least Classics/Generations releases though.

I mean, of all the recent characters Hasbro will release they choose Skids and Whirl???? Why?

They could tackle any popular combiner, popular minibot, and chose those two? Really?

It is almost as if between HasTak and 3rd parties those guys were on the last of the list of Season 1 and 2 characters so they decided what the hell??? Why not?

I think that is it for them for early G1, I think generations is going to move on to post 86 movie and other lines now...

I think that the 3rd party industry is on HasTak's radar, if for nothing else than legal matters.

I'm sure that particular members of the Transformers division keep up with 3rd party developments but not because of work reasons, rather, they're toy aficionados and are as "in the know" as anyone else in the Transformers collecting community.

Now as far as 3rd parties influencing HasTak? I don't see a direct correlation. If anything, the 3rd party industry simply informs HasTak how much money an average member of a niche market(dedicated TF toy collectors) are willing to pay for big ticket items.

However, the aftermarket(eBay) and exclusives(Japanese exclusives and convention exclusives) have served as gauging tools for studying the TF collector economical boundaries for HasTak for years before the 3rd party industry emerged as a viable economy.

Generations Skids, Whirl, the IDW based toys in general, are not due to 3rd party influence. The idea of the Generations part of the Thrilling 30 campaign is to span the 30 years of Transformers history. That's why we get things like Scoop and then on the other hand Armada Starscream. Some are more popular characters, others are perhaps more obscure. The point is, it should be fun for longtime fans as well as the designers who also are TF fans, who grew up in the 80s and 90s like many of us in the collector community.

The Global Brand Manager for Transformers(Clint Chapman) stated during an interview at Botcon 2013 that Hasbro and IDW have been working together for some time, developing toy releases for Generations and ultimately for the Thrilling 30 campaign.

The idea for the pack in comics for some/many of the Thrilling 30 campaign toys is that Hasbro is basically doing a cross product event(comics and toys). The comics packed with the toys are part of an overall series, it's not a random comic here and there. There is a deliberately orchestrated plan behind this part of the Thrilling 30 campaign.

The Spotlight comic issues that we see in the early waves of the Thrilling 30 toys are going to transition into a connected series of comics in 2014, involving all of the Generations characters in a story arc centered around Dark Cybertron. This is a massive cross product promotional event with Hasbro's toys and IDW's comic continuity.

So what does all this have to do with a possible MP Shockwave and the 3rd party industry's existence? Simply put, Hasbro and TakaraTomy have large plans that involve brand expression initiatives that are planned years ahead of time and each component will last for a year or two.

If HasTak decide whether or not to make MP Shockwave, it isn't because of 3rd party influence, one way or another. HasTak's decision would be based on whether or not MP Shockwave fits into their brand expression plans for the next several years.

Multi-billion dollar companies like Hasbro and TakaraTomy wouldn't be where they are in the toy product industry if they simply acted on whim, being influenced by relatively tiny niche industries such as the 3rd party Transformers product industry.

I don't think Quakewave has much bearing on the possibility of an official MP Shockwave either way. TT released MP-11 and Sunstorm after iGear offered up their versions. I also think an official Shockwave would be different enough that the majority that purchased Quakewave would still buy an official version.

Whether an official MP Shockwave will happen, though, I have no idea...which is the primary reason I bought Quakewave. It was worth the $150 gamble.

I don't have Quakewave but to be frank, it looks like a great transforming toy.

3rd party details aside, possibility of a future MP Shockwave aside, I think that if a person wants a good Shockwave-ish high end toy, Quakewave is the best and only game in town right now.

Man, BBTS is getting in on the Quakewave... Do they know something we don't?

It is stuff like this that make me wonder if an MP Shockwave is a real possibility or not?

I like how Quakewave looks, I just feel Takara can do better, plus I would prefer all my MP's be official and non 3rd party.

Stormrider wrote:Quakewave is a good stand in but far from perfect.

Seriously? OK, maybe his colours are a little off and it's a shame the alt mode gun barrel has to removed and reattached but apart from that he's amazing. An official Shockwave is a distinct possibility but I'm sure it won't be as good as Quakewave. That figure makes the MPs feel like flimsy, floppy knock-offs. His joints are all perfectly tight and he feels solid and sturdy. Also, there's no chance HasTak will give us that amount of hand articulation. They couldn't even be bothered to give Metroplex that many finger joints.

What accessories would they include? Nothing that I'm likely to care about.

Mykltron wrote:

Stormrider wrote:Quakewave is a good stand in but far from perfect.

Seriously? OK, maybe his colours are a little off and it's a shame the alt mode gun barrel has to removed and reattached but apart from that he's amazing. An official Shockwave is a distinct possibility but I'm sure it won't be as good as Quakewave. That figure makes the MPs feel like flimsy, floppy knock-offs. His joints are all perfectly tight and he feels solid and sturdy. Also, there's no chance HasTak will give us that amount of hand articulation. They couldn't even be bothered to give Metroplex that many finger joints.

What accessories would they include? Nothing that I'm likely to care about.

I don't agree that an official MP Shockwave wouldn't be as good as Quakewave. I think that TakaraTomy could definitely match Quakewave with a MP Shockwave of their own. Such a feat wouldn't be out of their ability.

The question I have is should TakaraTomy ever develop a MP Shockwave for production, what direction could they take for the design and engineering? Frankly, Quakewave is a standout among other 3rd party transforming action figures.

Many 3rd party companies are using character recognition as a large factor in their product designs. As impressive as some 3rd party toys are, they also have instances of glaring design issues considering their normally high price tags.

Quakewave is a high end toy where basically it has a "This is how it should be done." execution of design. With such an arguably "perfect" approach to making a MP scaled Shockwave, would TakaraTomy take inspiration from how Fans Toys designed Quakewave?

Or perhaps will they strike out in a different design and engineering direction, risking developing a Shockwave that may not be viewed as positively as an unofficial product simply for the reason that they don't want to be seen as mimicking an independent toy developer?

Convotron wrote:I don't agree that an official MP Shockwave wouldn't be as good as Quakewave. I think that TakaraTomy could definitely match Quakewave with a MP Shockwave of their own. Such a feat wouldn't be out of their ability.

Well, of course a large company like that COULD do this, but they won't. Quakewave costs about the same as an MP figure but the quality blows ALL MPs away. When reviewers made that statement I was skeptical but as soon as I took him out of the box I was very impressed.

Convotron, this is the first time we've disagreed on anything. OUR FIRST ARGUMENT!

Mykltron wrote:

Stormrider wrote:Quakewave is a good stand in but far from perfect.

Seriously? OK, maybe his colours are a little off and it's a shame the alt mode gun barrel has to removed and reattached but apart from that he's amazing. An official Shockwave is a distinct possibility but I'm sure it won't be as good as Quakewave. That figure makes the MPs feel like flimsy, floppy knock-offs. His joints are all perfectly tight and he feels solid and sturdy. Also, there's no chance HasTak will give us that amount of hand articulation. They couldn't even be bothered to give Metroplex that many finger joints.

What accessories would they include? Nothing that I'm likely to care about.

I just don't think Quakewave looks that good. Glad to hear he's built well, but he doesn't look like he fits in with the current MP line. Just like with Soundwave, I have no doubt Takara's eventual Shockwave MP will crush any 3rd party knockoffs. Looking at something like the MP Prowl mold only reinforces how beautiful Takara's work is. Likewise, something like MP Lazerbeak only reminds you of how brilliant their engineering is. Can't wait to see what they do with ol' Shocky (though it may be years away).