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The concept of alien robots from outer space

Discuss anything and everything related to the Transformers Live Action Films franchise, which are directed by Michael Bay. Join us to discuss the movies and stuff up to date with news for the 2017 release of Transformers 5. Check out our Live Action Film section here.

The concept of alien robots from outer space

Postby Gobstopper » Mon Apr 02, 2007 7:53 pm

I cant belive i did not relize earlier and there are probobly others but why should the transformers look like humans other than past tformers. We should have relized that almost all past tformers shows and comics haven't been listened to. Aside from that i think bay and co. were really tring to show us what it would really look like. But i guess you have to decide between what you want to see and what you would probobly be seeing.
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Postby Blitzwing the warrior » Mon Apr 02, 2007 9:28 pm

Exactly how I feel, why should alien robots have a human face and make human expressions? Do they have to be humanoid shaped? Do they have to have 4 fingers and a thumb?
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Postby Retardicon » Mon Apr 02, 2007 10:18 pm

Since machines are designed to be efficient, they would take a form that would improve their efficiency.

So what is their purpose? Originally, they were probably designed to defend and maintain their creators existence. If that was the case, they would have been designed to resemble their creators in order for a friendly integration into society.

So their creators were probably 30' tall humanoid insects?

No, Their size increase probably came before the revolution. Since their protocols required them to protect their creators, they 'decided' it would be better for their creators if they traveled inside them where they could be better defended against danger. Over two generations they grew in size and perfected their transformation ability.

So, the creators were probably 2-3m tall bipedal creatures.

At some point thereafter, the first Decepticon's logic processor realized that the only way to protect their creators was to confine them permanently. War. Decepticons vs Autobots and Creators. Then there were no more creators.

Logic then implied that they must defend themselves. Autobots decided to hole up where as the Decepticons chose to destroy all threats across the galaxy.

With the Decepticon's programming to conquer, an efficient way would be through fear. So, over time across worlds, the Decepticons picked up traits of the more fearsome creatues in the galaxy.

Where as the Autobots maintained a mostly isolationist position, they would maintain traits that were initially given them by the creators.

So, If you have an Autobot design question, ask if it could be because they resemble their creators.
If you have a Decepticon design question, ask if it could be because they resemble a terrifying alien they encountered.
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Postby Gobstopper » Mon Apr 02, 2007 10:50 pm

Pretty impressive, well thoughtout, makes sense but kinda sounds alittle like the bible
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Postby Immortal Starscream » Mon Apr 02, 2007 11:33 pm

in short, theres no way to realy say what alien robots would look like, just because thier alien. but ive made a few point in the past, such as, why would a robot need a nose? or a mouth?

the point of them looking human, is basicly to make it easier for people to relate to them. its a basic concept that disney animators have been following for decades.
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Postby Burn » Tue Apr 03, 2007 5:49 am

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Because anything otherwise would be too unbelievable for the general public.

What? Oh ... you all wanted a scientific explanation not the money making one. ;;)
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Postby Autobotcity » Tue Apr 03, 2007 8:54 am

Why a nose?


Why does the Autobot Logo sport a nose? :P



But seriously, why a nose? No seriously, why have eyes (optical sensors) or ears (audio receptors), touch (finger sensors), pain (damage sensors), etc? You could also think of heat sensors and other sensory equipment.

Because from an evolutionary point of view, the more senses you have, the greater the odds you recognise a threat and thus the odds you can react to it and thus increasing your survivability chances.


So why scent? For one, it might be handy to know when you're surrounded by volatile gasses and don't want to create a spark and explode the whole lot. ;) Or you could use it to track stuff, like predators, or, be warned of the presence of predators (like why a lot of herbivors have noses).

Taking in of air wouldn't be as much a thing for robotnoses to get the oxygen for combustion purposes for example, they can use other vents and pumps afterall. (Yes robots, or rather, their propulsion methods might need to 'breath' or they'd choke, just why sharks, aircraft and even car engines need some sort of inlets and systems to obtain oxygen even at minimum amounts for this process).

Why on a nose? Because the further away from your own body, the more seperate it is. Why do you think the majority of these sensing things on mammals, predators, birds, fish even insects have these senses on some sort of protrusions sticking out from the head? Why near the head? Because that means the time to react is shorter, it can be navigated easier etc. So all in all, a nose regardless of shape or form, makes sense. Even on a robot.

As for how the nose would work, a compact device similar to gaschromatography?



As for the humanoid face.

Consider that you could start of with alien faces, but that they adapt that too to make it suit their purposes and not alienate people they potentially could use as puppets or something. It doesn't require much explanation: everyone knows how typical TFs have humanoid faces, everyone is accustomed to them. Rather, nobody expected 'alien' faces.

So why not? Do you question 90% of the Star Trek races look humanoid? It's always been an integral part of the Transformers series, so much it basically is a standard aesthetic: Either human face or faceplate when having a vehicle format, less so when having a Beast format. However, as the target audience is human, it'll be easier to relate to a humanoid face than an alien face. For Decepticons this could be used to their advantage, to deceive humans with their looks. Coming over less threatening than they really are.

"More than meets the eye"? ;)

There's nothing deceptive about the Movie Decepticons: 'they clearly are the evil kind of robot', spikey, thorney, detached, etc; A very Hollywood portrayal of 'evil'. Kinda like how in Hollywood films nerds have glasses unless they turn out to be a very hot chick when they suddenly lose the glasses.



Why mouths? Mouths aren't entirely necessary, a lot of TFs have faceplates as well. However, traditionally mouths are a feature many TFs have.

So they need a function. Speech is the most obvious thing, but a stereo box can do that as well. It could be made as a surrogate thing, to comfort species they encounter through familiar features (much like why you'd use human faces), who ARE likely to have mouths. The other function you could attribute to it is refueling. Of course that could be done with a valve through the side or directly to the storage compartment as well. Still, from a biological point of view, it's a very successfull formula to use a mouth as it has adapted to many functions and has little drawbacks; mainly depending on the jaw/teeth design and articulation options on what it's used for.


:)
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Postby Zombie Starscream » Tue Apr 03, 2007 11:31 am

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I agree with Autobotcity. Though I would add with the idea of a nose, it would make sense if you were also able to take in air through it, so gas analysis would be easier. I think a lot of equipment that analyses gases and stuff have to either use suction to get the air sample or have it blown into them. I am not sure why this is that way though, maybe it just more accurate doing it that way.

Also to add with a idea of a mouth, maybe it is also that maybe their sustanance doesn't always come in a liquid or gas form. It probably comes in a solid form too, hence the need for the various mouthparts and stuff. If they travel from place to place, they would need to be able to survive with differant forms the available food might take, and it would be a distinct disadvantage if you could only drink or inhale your food. You would have to be able to chew it too.

Lastly, if they are in a humanoid form, it doesn't necessarily mean that they started out that way or even that it could be so its "familier." Maybe they scanned organic lifeforms a long time ago and found that it was actually the most efficiant form to take. For all we know they found that a lot of what they looked at was very efficiant. To use an example: Legs were found by scientists to be far more efficiant and adaptable than wheels for locomotion. Emotions give a HUGE advantage to a creature than using just mathimatical equations and logic. Something to do with intuition and "thinking outside the box" I think.

I would add more except I'm afraid of getting the "post not specified" and have all this writing vanish into Internet ether.
Last edited by Zombie Starscream on Tue Apr 03, 2007 11:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Sunstar » Tue Apr 03, 2007 11:33 am

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Postby DUDEATRICE » Tue Apr 03, 2007 11:37 am

Transforming alien robots that turned from vehicles to something that resembled anything other than humanoid would lose your attention and empathy. Plain and simple.

Scientifically, why not? Before you question why a ficticious alien race of robots would have certain features, question why they wouldn't. Comparing all other life in the universe to humans is selfish and ignorant. What's to say our life isn't a copy of theirs? We're obviously less advanced in every regard.
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Postby Zombie Starscream » Tue Apr 03, 2007 11:50 am

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DUDEATRICE wrote:Transforming alien robots that turned from vehicles to something that resembled anything other than humanoid would lose your attention and empathy. Plain and simple.

Scientifically, why not? Before you question why a ficticious alien race of robots would have certain features, question why they wouldn't. Comparing all other life in the universe to humans is selfish and ignorant. What's to say our life isn't a copy of theirs? We're obviously less advanced in every regard.

That was an angle I hadn't considered before. That it wasn't them that looked like us, but that we looked like them.
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Postby DUDEATRICE » Tue Apr 03, 2007 2:22 pm

There are many reasons to argue but if anything, we're copying the sucess of their species...they've managed to perfect interstellar travel...we haven't mastered flight in our own atmosphere for much longer than a century.

We are a fragile destructive species that hasn't explored the far reaches of our own planet and probably wouldn't have much success exploring the outer reaches of space.

Let's not get hasty and whine that they look like us. Imagine their perspective of landing on a planet light years away and seeing us. US! Wow humans are a wimpier, smaller version of Autobots/Decepticons.
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Postby Salazaar » Tue Apr 03, 2007 2:36 pm

You guys look too much into this stuff. The companies thought of the toy first, THEN the backstory. They had to make the toy recognizable to the children that would play with them. It wouldn't make a great toy, either. Little Jimmy would have a hell of a time transforming a giant metal octopus that turns into a motorcycle
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Postby Nico » Tue Apr 03, 2007 3:06 pm

An humanoid body shape is simply much more adaptive.
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Postby Shadowman » Tue Apr 03, 2007 3:52 pm

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Ghost One wrote:Since machines are designed to be efficient, they would take a form that would improve their efficiency.

So what is their purpose? Originally, they were probably designed to defend and maintain their creators existence. If that was the case, they would have been designed to resemble their creators in order for a friendly integration into society.

So their creators were probably 30' tall humanoid insects?

No, Their size increase probably came before the revolution. Since their protocols required them to protect their creators, they 'decided' it would be better for their creators if they traveled inside them where they could be better defended against danger. Over two generations they grew in size and perfected their transformation ability.

So, the creators were probably 2-3m tall bipedal creatures.

At some point thereafter, the first Decepticon's logic processor realized that the only way to protect their creators was to confine them permanently. War. Decepticons vs Autobots and Creators. Then there were no more creators.

Logic then implied that they must defend themselves. Autobots decided to hole up where as the Decepticons chose to destroy all threats across the galaxy.

With the Decepticon's programming to conquer, an efficient way would be through fear. So, over time across worlds, the Decepticons picked up traits of the more fearsome creatues in the galaxy.

Where as the Autobots maintained a mostly isolationist position, they would maintain traits that were initially given them by the creators.

So, If you have an Autobot design question, ask if it could be because they resemble their creators.
If you have a Decepticon design question, ask if it could be because they resemble a terrifying alien they encountered.


By God, that's perfect! :shock:

Good arguement, man. You deserve a medal.
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Postby Senor Hugo » Tue Apr 03, 2007 8:32 pm

Ghost One wrote:Since machines are designed to be efficient, they would take a form that would improve their efficiency.

So what is their purpose? Originally, they were probably designed to defend and maintain their creators existence. If that was the case, they would have been designed to resemble their creators in order for a friendly integration into society.

So their creators were probably 30' tall humanoid insects?

No, Their size increase probably came before the revolution. Since their protocols required them to protect their creators, they 'decided' it would be better for their creators if they traveled inside them where they could be better defended against danger. Over two generations they grew in size and perfected their transformation ability.

So, the creators were probably 2-3m tall bipedal creatures.

At some point thereafter, the first Decepticon's logic processor realized that the only way to protect their creators was to confine them permanently. War. Decepticons vs Autobots and Creators. Then there were no more creators.

Logic then implied that they must defend themselves. Autobots decided to hole up where as the Decepticons chose to destroy all threats across the galaxy.

With the Decepticon's programming to conquer, an efficient way would be through fear. So, over time across worlds, the Decepticons picked up traits of the more fearsome creatues in the galaxy.

Where as the Autobots maintained a mostly isolationist position, they would maintain traits that were initially given them by the creators.

So, If you have an Autobot design question, ask if it could be because they resemble their creators.
If you have a Decepticon design question, ask if it could be because they resemble a terrifying alien they encountered.


And then Will Smith shows up and stops it all from happening.

It's not a perfect explanation. For one, while fear is a very good tool to conquer. Why choose a look that screams "hey, how ya doing? I'm evil and going to kill you now."

Is it more terrifying to look like you're evil. Or is it more terrifying to come looking like a friend, then show true colors after earning a species trust?

To be evil, one doesn't need to look evil. They have to act evil. Lex Luthor, doesn't look evil, but he is evil. Granted when it comes down to actual warfare, having that evil look is good.
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Postby Basketball Jones » Wed Apr 04, 2007 12:46 am

This really can't be explained other than to say that it improves sales.
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Postby kjeevah » Thu Apr 05, 2007 4:54 am

Gobstopper wrote:Pretty impressive, well thoughtout, makes sense but kinda sounds alittle like the bible


no, it isnt the bible, its straight from 'i robot'
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Postby Zombie Starscream » Thu Apr 05, 2007 4:40 pm

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I wonder if they made the bad guys "evil looking" as a form of dumbing down?

I would have found it more scary if they had nice looking robots that just turned on you without you expecting it, instead of the evil looking things who you would obviously expect to act evil.

What is scarier, a robot you're standing next to who looks like the others but who's alliegence you're not sure of, or a robot that looks evil and you're able to figure out his alligence without ever having to get near him?
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Postby Salazaar » Thu Apr 05, 2007 5:09 pm

Shadowman wrote:
Ghost One wrote:Since machines are designed to be efficient, they would take a form that would improve their efficiency.

So what is their purpose? Originally, they were probably designed to defend and maintain their creators existence. If that was the case, they would have been designed to resemble their creators in order for a friendly integration into society.

So their creators were probably 30' tall humanoid insects?

No, Their size increase probably came before the revolution. Since their protocols required them to protect their creators, they 'decided' it would be better for their creators if they traveled inside them where they could be better defended against danger. Over two generations they grew in size and perfected their transformation ability.

So, the creators were probably 2-3m tall bipedal creatures.

At some point thereafter, the first Decepticon's logic processor realized that the only way to protect their creators was to confine them permanently. War. Decepticons vs Autobots and Creators. Then there were no more creators.

Logic then implied that they must defend themselves. Autobots decided to hole up where as the Decepticons chose to destroy all threats across the galaxy.

With the Decepticon's programming to conquer, an efficient way would be through fear. So, over time across worlds, the Decepticons picked up traits of the more fearsome creatues in the galaxy.

Where as the Autobots maintained a mostly isolationist position, they would maintain traits that were initially given them by the creators.

So, If you have an Autobot design question, ask if it could be because they resemble their creators.
If you have a Decepticon design question, ask if it could be because they resemble a terrifying alien they encountered.


By God, that's perfect! :shock:

Good arguement, man. You deserve a medal.


Uh, my argument is a LITTLE more realistic.
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Postby Doctor Paragon » Fri Apr 06, 2007 12:36 am

Zombie Starscream wrote:I wonder if they made the bad guys "evil looking" as a form of dumbing down?

I would have found it more scary if they had nice looking robots that just turned on you without you expecting it, instead of the evil looking things who you would obviously expect to act evil.

What is scarier, a robot you're standing next to who looks like the others but who's alliegence you're not sure of, or a robot that looks evil and you're able to figure out his alligence without ever having to get near him?

I agree for the most part. Deception is a core doctrine
of the Decepticon way of existence after all.
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Postby Retardicon » Fri Apr 06, 2007 1:40 am

Salazaar wrote:
Shadowman wrote:
Ghost One wrote:So, If you have an Autobot design question, ask if it could be because they resemble their creators.
If you have a Decepticon design question, ask if it could be because they resemble a terrifying alien they encountered.


By God, that's perfect! :shock:

Good arguement, man. You deserve a medal.


Uh, my argument is a LITTLE more realistic.


The thread is about the Concept of real life transformers, not the Marketing of a toy line. Yeah, you are right about the way the design and marketing teams brainstormed a franchise.

But that's not what we're talking about.
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Postby Retardicon » Fri Apr 06, 2007 1:47 am

kjeevah wrote:
Gobstopper wrote:Pretty impressive, well thoughtout, makes sense but kinda sounds alittle like the bible


no, it isnt the bible, its straight from 'i robot'


Logical thinking and following protocols are basics across all fields of robotics.

If someone starts talking about quantum mechanics, does that mean that they are biting from Stephen Hawking or Albert Einstein?
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Postby E107_Theta » Fri Apr 06, 2007 11:27 pm

This is something I've thought about myself.

An alien life form that's humanoid is possible, and they might exist out there, but the chances of them being in the same galaxy, them making sentient robots, and the sentient robots meeting another humanoid species are astronomical. It's nearly impossible.

So if you want to get technical, even the Bayformers are still way too human to be realistic.

Though, if I were doing a reboot of the franchise, I would explain why they look humanoid by making the Autobots live on earth in hiding for thousands or millions of years, and since they're excellent at adapting to their environment, they saw humans, and began developing human physical and emotional traits.
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Postby lilcarus » Sat Apr 07, 2007 6:24 pm

Salazaar wrote:You guys look too much into this stuff. The companies thought of the toy first, THEN the backstory. They had to make the toy recognizable to the children that would play with them. It wouldn't make a great toy, either. Little Jimmy would have a hell of a time transforming a giant metal octopus that turns into a motorcycle


you the man 8)
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