The Energon Pub

Burn wrote:

Night Striker wrote:They only had so much room to manuiver, heck the first script had a lot more bots action then humans, which is why they wanted to change it because Bay wouldn't go for that. He wasn't cannon fodder at all.

But you're basing that on what? The draft script? You can't do that. The draft script isn't canon.

Agree with Tyler here, why even kill him? We've seen several good guys die, we can assume that a lot of good bots died before, why waste time in the movie killing him! I"m glad that one note bonechrusher was offed. And Sunstormclone, thank you for pointing that out. He ran towards Megatron to keep him away from Bumblebee and the others. He was willing to do what he could to stop them. Ironhides all about, lets strike them first, well darn it then, do so. You're cannons did nothing!(regarding Ironhide and that whole wanting to show off cannons)

They had to demonstrate just how vicious and powerful Megatron was.

Now I may be wrong here but I seem to think you believe it should have been Ironhide taking on Megatron and that he was a coward for not doing so.

The goal of the Autobots was to protect Sam and the Cube. That's what they did. Jazz acted of his own accord, which as second-in-command was his perogative.

But why him to die? I still don't see why not. As far as characterisation relating to their vehicles Jazz just didn't fit. Everything in my opinion was wrong about him.

And for the record, if people are thinking, I do NOT subscribe to the "Jazz is the token black dude" thing. I watched Transformers to be enjoyed, not to be taken on a racism ride. It's the same Asians getting upset over the Trade Federation from Star Wars having Asian accents and thus implying Asians are shrewds and swindlers. I didn't think that until it was brought up.

People just read into movies faaaaaar too much and don't sit back enough to just enjoy them.

I'm just saying you're showing a lot of hate for a character who had just as many lines and scenes as Ironhide and Ratchet...I mean really what made them so great compared to Jazz? Ratchet fixes autobots, but he failed to do so throughout the movie...I mean I think he said something like "His vocal thingy was damaged in a battle blah blah I'm still working on the problem" Then he couldn't revive Jazz, BBee loses his leg and Ratchet's response sucked...He failed as a medic. Ironhide... cannons this, weapons that...RETREAT! He wasn't much of a brawling Weapons specialist. Now let’s take a look at Jazz. BBee's taken away (sad scene...) Jazz tries to reason with OP, because he knows what's going on isn't right. He also follows primes orders. Jazz once again speaks up for BBee later in the movie, and again he follows orders (LIKE A GOOD SECOND IN COMMAND!) He wasn’t bigger than his title… he played his role. Mr. Prime was busy on the freeway with Bonecrusher; Jazz stepped up as the second in command and led the attack on the decepticons. He even pulled Brawl's turret away from the soldiers and proceeded to kick ass. He played his role from every angle. I don't get what you're trying to say Burn! How was his character shallow? Why didn't he fit in? (Besides being small as hell) I mean you're really not explaining yourself. It's all good to dislike a character for no reason at all, but what's the deal with trying to create a rational explanation for your hate toward that character. What I'm trying to say is...You don't like him, cool! BUT! IMO all your reasons for not liking him are lame and pointless. You’re like Jazz...with no legs to stand on (Go Decepticons!). Jazz coolest autobot! He had style, mad skills, and he was hard as hell.

I didn't like the character, but I did not hate him. There's a difference.

I don't think Ratchet failed as a medic. It's up in the air whether he played a part in the repair of BB's vocal circuits. Read the prequel comics, he was having trouble then but he NEVER gave up trying. And it's clearly obvious that he patched up BB's legs.

Jazz however was obviously past the point of repair.

As for Ironhide, yeah, he had a lot of weapons, but that doesn't mean he's going to stand out in the middle and blast to his hearts content. He was protecting Sam and the Cube and he felt it best to retreat to a better location.

Now, don't go twisting my words. At no point have I EVER said Jazz was shallow. I simply did not like his character. The roles he did which you listed could have been done by any of the others. The fact that Prime, Ratchet, Bumblebee and Ironhide had specific roles meant they had to use Jazz for SOMETHING.

I'm sorry, but i'll say it again. I did not like (not hate, like I said, I can dislike something but not hate it. Hate is a whole different level of disdain for me and it takes a LOT for me to hate something) the characterisation of Jazz and I didn't see him fulfilling any useful role other than token cannon fodder. If you liked him and think otherwise then yay for you, but nothing anyone says will change my opinion on this. I don't expect you to understand WHY I think this way, i've explained it already numerous times.

Burn wrote:I didn't like the character, but I did not hate him. There's a difference.

I don't think Ratchet failed as a medic. It's up in the air whether he played a part in the repair of BB's vocal circuits. Read the prequel comics, he was having trouble then but he NEVER gave up trying. And it's clearly obvious that he patched up BB's legs.

Jazz however was obviously past the point of repair.

As for Ironhide, yeah, he had a lot of weapons, but that doesn't mean he's going to stand out in the middle and blast to his hearts content. He was protecting Sam and the Cube and he felt it best to retreat to a better location.

Now, don't go twisting my words. At no point have I EVER said Jazz was shallow. I simply did not like his character. The roles he did which you listed could have been done by any of the others. The fact that Prime, Ratchet, Bumblebee and Ironhide had specific roles meant they had to use Jazz for SOMETHING.

I'm sorry, but i'll say it again. I did not like (not hate, like I said, I can dislike something but not hate it. Hate is a whole different level of disdain for me and it takes a LOT for me to hate something) the characterisation of Jazz and I didn't see him fulfilling any useful role other than token cannon fodder. If you liked him and think otherwise then yay for you, but nothing anyone says will change my opinion on this. I don't expect you to understand WHY I think this way, i've explained it already numerous times.

Uh yeah...BS explanations maybe. BBee, lovable autobot, Prime, leader, Ironhide, badass, Ratchet, medic, Jazz, second in command...Hmm BBee was cute enough, Prime led well, Ironhide wasn't much of a bad ass (protecting the cube required some type of offense and he provided little) Ratchet fixes BBee's leg ok cool, I'll give you that one, but he wasn't much of a mid-combat medic, and his combat capability was mediocre at best. Jazz assumed command in Prime's absence. He did his job. I think he was the coolest autobot and he had heart plane and simple. Killing him off wasn't really a big deal for me but I'd rather see Ratchet or ironhide bite it… I'm sorry... They just seemed pretty damn useless. Sam protected himself and the cube... Ratchet and Ironhide took a beating from starscream, who fulfilled his role as second in command in a similar fashion as Jazz, by being a distraction, while Megatron continued to carry out the primary mission. I'm sorry Burn, and I'm not here to offend you... It's just that I found Jazz to be highly useful and entertaining, but people are made to have their own opinions right? So I guess we can agree to disagree.

OH! Almost forgot. When I said hate I was using the urban definition of the word. Not like a severe dislike for something. It means disliking something at random or due to jealousy or for half-assed personal reasons.

He is coming... back.
Are you ready?

{Kidding}

I always interpreted that Prime pulling the last shard of the Allspark was to help repair Bumblebee's legs. They can't have had much/any access to Cybertronian tech, and Bumblebee seemed to be 100% even though his legs were pretty much ripped from under him and crushed.

That's just how I saw it.

I managed to go spoiler free for the movie so I had no idea Jazz was going to eat it. I was stunned and horrified they killed him. Jazz was my first "real" transformer as a kid and has always been and will always be my favorite of the Autobots.

I say real transformer because prior to that I only had the little ones like clifjumper, bumblebee, brawn, and beachcomber.

I wont get into a debate over it but I loved him in the cartoon and thought they did a great job with him in the movie. I thought his character got to be incredibly heroic and solid 2nd in command.

I'd love it if they brought him back like the toy box bio says. Do I think they will? I wouldn't bet on it either way.

I wish he wasn't, because he did some of the most bad-ass fighting in the movie, but Jazz is dead.

He ain't coming back. Movie people confirmed this at BotCon.

Bobimus_Prime wrote:He is coming... back.
Are you ready?

{Kidding}

When did they confirm this? That is such trash. Who's next bring in Prowl then off him too? *shudders* And who did the confirming?

hey that could happen. Or not. remember frenzy getting his body regenerated by the Allspark? But frenzy was alive and jazz is dead so that might not work.

Is it wrong of me to wish one of these Jazz supporters was named Jim?

Sunstormsclone wrote:

Burn wrote:So let's see.

Jazz is the first to dive in to attack Megatron.
Ironhide tells everyone to retreat.

Remind me again who the dumbarse was that ended up dead?

Makes you wonder why he was second-in-command when he obviously had pretty poor battle tactics.

Actually jazz never attack megatron. mr tron picked him out. Watch the movie again Megatron shoots Jazz first and thats how the fight begins. But come on ironhide is supposed to be a bad ass. I mean IRONHIDE hints badass if he's so badass why didn't he do much against starscream and ran from megatron like a chump. Jazz might have died but he was hard as hell. He represented to the fullest.

After watching the scene on you tube, the Autobots see Megatron landing and tell everyone to fall back. Jazz turns, sees that the humans are not going to get away from Megs, spins back around and fires at Megatron. Megatron shrugs off the blast and shoots Jazz knocking him down. Then you see Megs flying through the air slamming jazz into the rooftop.

So for the record Jazz did attack Megatron first but I where as I consider it stupid for a 13ft tall bot to try and duke it out with a 40 ft tall bot I commend Jazz for putting his life on the line for others.

Check it out at you tube by searching for final battle part 1.

Rushie wrote:Indeed, being the sole survivor of the TF Movie (1986), it was now Jazz' turn to push up the daisies.

The dinobots and Bumblebee survived too. I would have liked to see more of Jazz. When you think about it, someone who doesn't know the the characters to start with barely know anything more after the movie. Even the names are spoken very rarely. Beside Optimus and Bumblebee (and maybe Ironhide) most transformers are just more special effects.

I hope that they will cut the crap with soldier's baby and friends of the girl who found the codes and all the rest of the american government stuff. We pay to see big bots, we wanna see big bots. Period.

Don't forget Cliffjumper and several of the other autobots we don't get to see.

Evank_Horizon, totally agree with you. They could have done so much more if they would have limited the number of things with a lot of the characters. The baby was okay at the start, but then you keep cutting away to her, and it's like. We could get a lot of that from Josh dumal showing a picture and talking about her. We don't need that much info.

But out of the most autobots Jazz did have quite a few lines and was concerned for Bumblebee

"We have lost a great comrade, but we have gained new ones, so let's party like it's 1999!"

Nuff said.

So for the record Jazz did attack Megatron first but I where as I consider it stupid for a 13ft tall bot to try and duke it out with a 40 ft tall bot I commend Jazz for putting his life on the line for others.

When it comes to Movie Megatron, for any of the Autobots except Prime, agility counts more than power, and Jazz was the most Agile of them. Ironhide, Ratchet, and the legless Bumblebee would have been toast, and they were sitting ducks as compared to Jazz, and would have been ripped apart just as he was. Jazz had the speed, size, and agility to avoid Megatron's grasp for a significant enough length of time to allow the others to escape and Prime to arrive. That and as second-in-command, he would to honor bound to do anything that Prime would do in the Autobot Commander's absence, including sacrifice himself.

And on the whole issue of Jazz coming back, there is a literary device called the "Flashback." I dont think anyone has mentioned it.

"Whats crackin lil' bitches?"

Classic. Hope they bring him back.

BLACKOUT2007 wrote:"Whats crackin lil' bitches?"

Classic. Hope they bring him back.

i wanna see the return of "The crackin of the little bitches" ;P

This goddamn thread has more life in it than Jazz!

Which isn't hard really considering, JAZZ IS DEAD AND NOT COMING BACK!

Burn wrote:This goddamn thread has more life in it than Jazz!

Which isn't hard really considering, JAZZ IS DEAD AND NOT COMING BACK!

Too true.

Burn wrote:This goddamn thread has more life in it than Jazz!

Which isn't hard really considering, JAZZ IS DEAD AND NOT COMING BACK!

Sorry man...but I'm still feeling the hate for ubran culture.

Let me get this right, because I didn't like the Jazz character you think i'm a **** racist?

Burn wrote:Let me get this right, because I didn't like the Jazz character you think i'm a **** racist?

im in SHOCK that this thread is STiLL going. and burn i wouldnt even feed into that bait.

woot!

PRiMESDESTiNY wrote:

Burn wrote:Let me get this right, because I didn't like the Jazz character you think i'm a **** racist?

im in SHOCK that this thread is STiLL going. and burn i wouldnt even feed into that bait.

Yeah I know I shouldn't bite. But i'll be damned if i'm going to let someone insinuate i'm a racist just because I didn't like a stupid robot character in a bloody movie!