The Energon Pub

http://sirtoys.com/toys.php?c=1&p=110&t ... lebee.html

I now officially welcome Dec. 21, 2012!

There's no reason to go on... Who... seriously... wat?





Hey Chinese.. COME BUY OURS ON THE SHELVES! THERES PLENTY!

If it weren't for the missing company marks, I'd fall it. I mean the Chinese names are 100% correct:

Optimus Prime: 擎天柱, "Pillar that Supports the Sky"
Bumblebee: 大黃蜂, "Bumblebee"
Starscream: 紅蜘蛛, "Red Spider"

Lets just start KOing my turds too...

Well, most KOs are geared towards kids. Not suprised at all that these are being copied.

Rated X wrote:Lets just start KOing my turds too...

Sure, if they would be able to sell it and people would actually buy it... Now you can't complain about botshots...

daimchoc wrote:

Rated X wrote:Lets just start KOing my turds too...

Sure, if they would be able to sell it and people would actually buy it... Now you can't complain about botshots...

Botshots look like little turds.

Gauntlet101010 wrote:Well, most KOs are geared towards kids.

That is true, but then CHMS changed the game.

Rated X wrote:

Gauntlet101010 wrote:Well, most KOs are geared towards kids.

That is true, but then CHMS changed the game.

CHMS is a blip on the KO radar.

Gauntlet101010 wrote:

Rated X wrote:

Gauntlet101010 wrote:Well, most KOs are geared towards kids.

That is true, but then CHMS changed the game.

CHMS is a blip on the KO radar.

CHMS might be a blip on the radar to the kids toy market, but they have become a major player in the collectors market. Love em or hate em, they have made a definitive impact on how collectors view exclusives and ethics. CHMS and friends have divided the TF collecting community on a massive scale comparable to that of Roe VS. Wade.

Rated X wrote:

Gauntlet101010 wrote:

Rated X wrote:

Gauntlet101010 wrote:Well, most KOs are geared towards kids.

That is true, but then CHMS changed the game.

CHMS is a blip on the KO radar.

CHMS might be a blip on the radar to the kids toy market, but they have become a major player in the collectors market. Love em or hate em, they have made a definitive impact on how collectors view exclusives and ethics. CHMS and friends have divided the TF collecting community on a massive scale comparable to that of Roe VS. Wade.

Not really. Not unless they're the ones who've made all the "high quality" G1 KOs, and from what I gather that wasn't them.

CHMS has really made barely a handful of Classics styled KOs and has been largely irrelevant since KO Toys was shut down. What you said applies to the entire KO scene, but CHMS does not represent all "high quality" KOs everywhere.

Gauntlet101010 wrote:

Rated X wrote:

Gauntlet101010 wrote:

Rated X wrote:

Gauntlet101010 wrote:Well, most KOs are geared towards kids.

That is true, but then CHMS changed the game.

CHMS is a blip on the KO radar.

CHMS might be a blip on the radar to the kids toy market, but they have become a major player in the collectors market. Love em or hate em, they have made a definitive impact on how collectors view exclusives and ethics. CHMS and friends have divided the TF collecting community on a massive scale comparable to that of Roe VS. Wade.

Not really. Not unless they're the ones who've made all the "high quality" G1 KOs, and from what I gather that wasn't them.

CHMS has really made barely a handful of Classics styled KOs and has been largely irrelevant since KO Toys was shut down. What you said applies to the entire KO scene, but CHMS does not represent all "high quality" KOs everywhere.

75% of the stuff that was available at KO Toys is now for sale at Chimungmung. Plus some cool new stuff Mike never had. Ace Toy Store also pushes High Quality KOs. Im not sure if CHMS is behind the KOLD Prime series, or the KO Protector, City Commander, or Battle Tankers. But combine that with the seekers/Rodimus/Sideswipe/Animated Arcee molds and the 4 versions of X-Transbots Powerglide, and youve got a pretty big chunk of change. These things werent Koed for kicks. People are seriously buying them and saying screw the high priced original. Aside from a few fixable flaws, I can testify that thay are that damn good.

Rated X wrote:

Gauntlet101010 wrote:

Rated X wrote:

Gauntlet101010 wrote:

Rated X wrote:

Gauntlet101010 wrote:Well, most KOs are geared towards kids.

That is true, but then CHMS changed the game.

CHMS is a blip on the KO radar.

CHMS might be a blip on the radar to the kids toy market, but they have become a major player in the collectors market. Love em or hate em, they have made a definitive impact on how collectors view exclusives and ethics. CHMS and friends have divided the TF collecting community on a massive scale comparable to that of Roe VS. Wade.

Not really. Not unless they're the ones who've made all the "high quality" G1 KOs, and from what I gather that wasn't them.

CHMS has really made barely a handful of Classics styled KOs and has been largely irrelevant since KO Toys was shut down. What you said applies to the entire KO scene, but CHMS does not represent all "high quality" KOs everywhere.

75% of the stuff that was available at KO Toys is now for sale at Chimungmung. Plus some cool new stuff Mike never had. Ace Toy Store also pushes High Quality KOs. Im not sure if CHMS is behind the KOLD Prime series, or the KO Protector, City Commander, or Battle Tankers. But combine that with the seekers/Rodimus/Sideswipe/Animated Arcee molds and the 4 versions of X-Transbots Powerglide, and youve got a pretty big chunk of change. These things werent Koed for kicks. People are seriously buying them and saying screw the high priced original. Aside from a few fixable flaws, I can testify that thay are that damn good.

Quality is not the issue here (I think you and I have very different standards).

Like you said, you don't know if they were behind the Kold line. Personally, I doubt it. I have the cheap POS Seeker mold (the one that made the pink one) and that's identical to the Kold Seeker mold, so I'd wager that wasn't CHMS.

I heard on these forums that CHMS wasn't behind Battle Tanker. So, again, you can't give CHMS credit for that or the upcoming Devestator KO.

Mike said CHMS wasn't behind the CC armor. No clue if they did the Protector armor, but if they didn't do CC it seems unlikely to me.

Things I KNOW CHMS did includes:
- A buttload of Seekers
- A couple of Mirages and Drag Strip
- Animated Arcee
- Henkei / Botcon Rodimus
- Crazy Devy KO ports
- the Powerglide KO
- The Sideswipe / Counterpunch mold

And that's IT. That's barely a blip, even among "high quality" KOs. Most of that stuff came out years and years ago. Their Seekers are noteworthy, but they're old news now. So, CHMS didn't change the game. Not at all; CHMS is a blip on a very big radar. If you want to talk about "high quality"KOS changing the game, that's another thing. But CHMS itself? No, I don't think so.

Gauntlet101010 wrote:

Rated X wrote:

Gauntlet101010 wrote:

Rated X wrote:

Gauntlet101010 wrote:

Rated X wrote:

Gauntlet101010 wrote:Well, most KOs are geared towards kids.

That is true, but then CHMS changed the game.

CHMS is a blip on the KO radar.

CHMS might be a blip on the radar to the kids toy market, but they have become a major player in the collectors market. Love em or hate em, they have made a definitive impact on how collectors view exclusives and ethics. CHMS and friends have divided the TF collecting community on a massive scale comparable to that of Roe VS. Wade.

Not really. Not unless they're the ones who've made all the "high quality" G1 KOs, and from what I gather that wasn't them.

CHMS has really made barely a handful of Classics styled KOs and has been largely irrelevant since KO Toys was shut down. What you said applies to the entire KO scene, but CHMS does not represent all "high quality" KOs everywhere.

75% of the stuff that was available at KO Toys is now for sale at Chimungmung. Plus some cool new stuff Mike never had. Ace Toy Store also pushes High Quality KOs. Im not sure if CHMS is behind the KOLD Prime series, or the KO Protector, City Commander, or Battle Tankers. But combine that with the seekers/Rodimus/Sideswipe/Animated Arcee molds and the 4 versions of X-Transbots Powerglide, and youve got a pretty big chunk of change. These things werent Koed for kicks. People are seriously buying them and saying screw the high priced original. Aside from a few fixable flaws, I can testify that thay are that damn good.

Quality is not the issue here (I think you and I have very different standards).

Like you said, you don't know if they were behind the Kold line. Personally, I doubt it. I have the cheap POS Seeker mold (the one that made the pink one) and that's identical to the Kold Seeker mold, so I'd wager that wasn't CHMS.

I heard on these forums that CHMS wasn't behind Battle Tanker. So, again, you can't give CHMS credit for that or the upcoming Devestator KO.

Mike said CHMS wasn't behind the CC armor. No clue if they did the Protector armor, but if they didn't do CC it seems unlikely to me.

Things I KNOW CHMS did includes:
- A buttload of Seekers
- A couple of Mirages and Drag Strip
- Animated Arcee
- Henkei / Botcon Rodimus
- Crazy Devy KO ports
- the Powerglide KO
- The Sideswipe / Counterpunch mold

And that's IT. That's barely a blip, even among "high quality" KOs. Most of that stuff came out years and years ago. Their Seekers are noteworthy, but they're old news now. So, CHMS didn't change the game. Not at all; CHMS is a blip on a very big radar. If you want to talk about "high quality"KOS changing the game, that's another thing. But CHMS itself? No, I don't think so.

See that’s where we are going to have to agree to disagree. CHMS basically pioneered existence of high quality classics KO’s. There were High quality G1 KO’s before CHMS, but they were sold with nostalgia in mind. CHMS was the first one to run with classics molds that were fairly new and target overpriced Henkei/Botcon repaints. Before that all KO’s of current molds were cheap neon colored crap with kids in mind.They proved that a large chunk of collectors didn’t care about that little stamp on the inner leg that says Takara. They just wanted the character on their shelves for a fair price. Without CHMS, we probably wouldn’t have KO City Commanders, Protectors, Battle Tankers, Giant, FP Insecticons, etc. That’s how CHMS changed the game. (for collectors I meant, not manufacturers)
Also I got the pink seeker and the quality was perfect. The only issue I had that the factory workers put the knees backward but I took him apart and put it right. The KO seeker that was poor quality was the orange Ramjet.

If you say the quality of the pink seeker is perfect we DEFINATELY have different ideas on what "high quality" means.

As it stands, while KO manufactuers produce KOs in blinding neon colors, there have been lots that straight-up copy whatever is on the shelves. Beast Wars has tons like that. And there's a lot more outside of the TF franchise. CHMS did nothing new in that regard.

You're right in one respect, though. CHMS is one of the only guys to KO a Botcon toy (although I don't think they KOed the SG prime). However, they didn't exactly make a whole lot of them. The vast, VAST majority of Botcon stuff remains un-KOed. So I wouldn't say this has changed the way collectors collect.

I also doubt that they had anything to do with the CC armor. I believe the CC KO predates the CHMS stuff, arriving at the same time as the crapola non-CHMS Seeker mold made it's debut. So, again, this changes nothing.

But I think you're credit is highly misplaced. CHMS is a cog in the KO wheel. It's KOToy's Mike you like. He was directly responsible for ALL the CHMS Seekers (and most KO Seekers in general), the Counterpunch KO, the Kold line ... and probably other things as well. If you're going to credit (or blame) someone credit the right person. Mike was the one who contacted CHMS and gave them the color schemes you like. We know this because the KOToys forum had documentation of the process and users openly gave feedback on his ideas. He was the first guy (and only guy, I believe) to make TFs "inspired" by Lucky Draws and that was the first we heard of the KOs you're talking about. CHMS would be absolutely NOTHING without Mike from KO Toys. And he didn't deal with them exclucively. The fact that CHMS is (arguably) the best producer of TF KOs doesn't matter because all their ideas came from Mike.

And with Mike out of the picture, it seems CHMS has lost whatever edge it had. At least we haven't heard about any new projects since then (the Sideswipe mold KO was well underway when they were busted). But we can agree to disagree on that point.

Call it Mike, Call it CHMS, or call it a teamwork effort between the two. All Im saying is they set the tone for some of the stuff were seeing now like SG City Commander and KO Giant. I credit they for building a foundation for high quality KO's and uniting a potential fanbase for the products. Mikes demise and CHMS's silence has not stopped other Chinese factories from following in their footsteps. If that isnt a game changer or at least a start, than what is ?

Calling it Mike would be the actual right thing to call it. Although, again, I question the accuracy of your statement. It might be a game changer for collectors but KOs in general have always been geared to kids (the KO toys anyway). CHMS did not change that. Nor do I think did they change the quality of KOs in general.

But I suppose I can credit Mike for KOs of the 3rd party, although not in the way you do. I think getting busted may have helped curb KOs of official things a little and moved KO people to the 3rd party, who don't have Hasbro/Takara's resources.

Gauntlet101010 wrote:Calling it Mike would be the actual right thing to call it. Although, again, I question the accuracy of your statement. It might be a game changer for collectors but KOs in general have always been geared to kids (the KO toys anyway). CHMS did not change that. Nor do I think did they change the quality of KOs in general.

But I suppose I can credit Mike for KOs of the 3rd party, although not in the way you do. I think getting busted may have helped curb KOs of official things a little and moved KO people to the 3rd party, who don't have Hasbro/Takara's resources.

Thats what I meant all along. It was a game changer for collectors, not KO's in general. And nothings really changed in the production of KO's in my opinion. It appears right now the factories that do them in high quality are targeting third parties instead of Hasbro/Funpub. Theres not really too many desirable Hasbro molds left to use that can be repainted into many characters except maybe Jazz.

KO United Jazz
KO Botcon Treadshot
KO Botcon Kick Out
Toy accurate G2 Jazz
Dead End
KO Stepper

But it does seem like there is money to be made on alternate versions of 3rd party trailers. I wouldnt be suprised if the blue Protector and black Battle Tanker sets are coming soon as well. And in my opinion, Chimungmung is the new KO toys. The owner just chooses not to be a Mouthpiece for the fans like Mike did.

Well, if you were trying to say that Mike changed the game for collectors and not KOs in general, why even bring it up here, where the product is obviously meant for kids and not collectors?

Which brings me back to my point yesterday. Toy KOs are still meant for kids, by and large. Mike didn't change that that; he just opened up KOs for collectors, but he didn't change the game for the overall market.

chms made the ko city commader kits+battle tanker ko and the protector ko

i think there also the guys doing the ko devastator (make toys)

Swindle01 wrote:chms made the ko city commader kits+battle tanker ko and the protector ko

i think there also the guys doing the ko devastator (make toys)

I don't know about BT and Protector (this is the first time I'm hearing they're affiliated with CHMS), but Mike said something different about CC back when KO Toys was alive. Unless you're saying he was wrong about that.

Edit: poked around a bit and saw some evidence to support CHMS making the Protector armor, so I'll give you that one. As for the CC armors and the MT KOs, I'm still unsure. I don't mean to sound overly suspicious or anything, but it's hard to discern who makes what and I like to be 100% sure before moving forward.

If they have been behind those products, I'll concede that they're still relevant to the KO scene in general.

mike left kotoys for lying and stealing remember?
Its tom who owns kotoys and he knows the people who made the ko city commander kits and battle tanker stuff and said several times its chms

Also anyone else find it odd kotoys gets closed down for selling Transformer kos....yet chimmung+acetoystore etc etc are selling ko tfs without and trouble at all

I miss kotoys...tony is ok at chimmung but he charges alot for postage to the uk and when ive tried to talk to the guy in the past he never seems very reasonable. It just seems since kotoys got closed down that these other stores try to screw fans over and charge alot for ko toys....

I mean the chms rainmakers going for 70-80 or whatever it was. i got them off kotoys for 30 and that was for all 3 of them together carded. Its like i wana get classics punch and i could have gotten it off kotoys for $20 but all these other stores wana charge 40ish for him and thats without postage added

I just really miss kotoys....finding kos of stuff you want seems expensive and hard these days

Well, KO Toys charged high prices for all of those things too. They just got discounted later on. I bought some KOs for high prices at KOToys when they were first released. So I have no such illusions about their prices like most KO fans seem to. Although I can't talk about their shipping to the UK as compared to Chimungmung. Since I paid the original high prices from KOToys I don't miss them nearly as much as you do.

Mike never actually seemed to have left KOToys. There was news that he left, but then he just kept on posting there and still seemed to be in authority.

I don't really wonder why KOToys got busted and Chimungmung doesn't. KOToys posted proof that they were responsible for KOs of the Dinocasettes (among others). Not just distributing them - but having an active hand in them getting made. Posting stuff like that is like waving a red flag in front of a bull. In retropect I'm surprised they weren't busted sooner.

The Battle Tanker KO came out after KOToys was gone, did he post that they were made by CHMS elsewhere? If so, where? I would like to look that up myself.

i used to speak to tom all the time to get my kos. Because i used to purchase in bulk i got better discounts as usually i was dropping 120+ a time on purchases

With tom it was much easier to talk about prices as i was always coming back for more and spent alot. However when kotoys got shut down i was still talking to him but recently hes just vanished and the website is down4maintenance and kate would sometimes answer emails directly but now....nothing...

I asked directly who made the ko battle tanker becasuse i didnt wana buy it if the damn thing fell to pieces on me so i asked who made it. He told me its the same people who made the ko city commader kits - IE Chms - so it wont fall to pieces on me as chms are pretty good ko makers

Okay, that's good enough for me. I'll concede the point that CHMS is still an active player in the scene and is behind those products.