The Energon Pub

Autobot032 wrote:Yeah, that "good relationship" has always been a smokescreen for "We're the same people, doing different things."

I don't know, but I guess it makes sense.

Autobot032 wrote:It also explains why FansProject said they wouldn't step on toes and do what someone else is doing.

Are their gestalts the same size? Menasor / Computron / Devastator?

Autobot032 wrote:And that's one thing I like about MakeToys. They give you everything you need to make it awesome, right out of the box. No double dipping in your wallet.

QFT.

His head could be upsized 20% right off the hop. A little more neck. Not much. And he needs a big ass visor option over his eyes that homage those gloriously gargantuan golden wrap around goggles of his G1 iteration. You gotta have those.


I do think the game changer for Quantron is when i start seeing some colour pics. I usually find the combiners pretty easy to resist (the massive price tag helps with that quite a bit as well) till i see the final product. Computron is pretty much my fave combiner so i'm watching this one closely and i'll have to see more pics before i really begin dissecting his engineering too much. I'm pretty forgiving in those regards, especially when it comes to the combiners and i'm not seeing anything i don't like goin on here but i'd really like to see more pics. There's a lot of expectations i have for a Computron fig and if this one doesn't turn out like i like than i can easily be patient for another 3rd party to make one......hopefully.

synapse wrote:

Autobot032 wrote:Yeah, that "good relationship" has always been a smokescreen for "We're the same people, doing different things."

I don't know, but I guess it makes sense.

How does it make sense?

Are they companies that are friendly with one another? Sure. Do they do their best to not step on each others toes? Seems likely. (And something I wish we'd see more of in the Third Party world.) Do they occasionally share a bit of design work back and fourth? Maybe. Who knows?

But saying they are the same people doing different things (implying to me you think it is basically one company using two different names for some branding purpose) is ridiculous. Why would they need or want to do this? Fansproject already had great brand recognition and a reputation for solid quality. What would be served by them starting to release toys under a new, unknown name? And if it was to do "different things," Fansproject already has a diverse line-up with multiple sublines. I see no reason why, if Maketoys was just a branch of Fansproject, they wouldn't have just been treated as another subline and had their toys released as, "Fansproject Maketoys-01 Hover & Bomber," "Fansproject Maketoys-02 Battle Tanker," etc.

Why do some people have such a hard time believing they are, indeed, a separate company?

I'll admit I have no personal knowledge about the behind the scenes matters of either company, so I shall admit this is pure speculation, but since what I am debating also seems to be pure speculation, I am fine with this.

Banjo-Tron wrote:

Autobot032 wrote:Well, he certainly does look a little too intimidating. If the neck, or lack thereof, is what provides that look, that is. And that's one thing I like about MakeToys. They give you everything you need to make it awesome, right out of the box. No double dipping in your wallet.

Agreed re. Maketoys and their not resorting to upgrade kits left right and center. I gave TFC the benefit of the doubt then they came up with the initial Devastator upgrade and thought, "well, at least they are listening to the fans"
Then they did the same thing again with Superion and tried to make a quick buck on their 'wings of your anus' upgrade and I realised they were just greedy.

Both of TFC's upgrade kits were direct after thoughts developed explicitly due to fan requests. People didn't like the Herc tread forearms (I loved them myself and only used the shoulder extensions on my Herc from that set, nothing else) and didn't like the IDW/Classics style head.

For Uranos, they saw people doing the chest mods left and right and fans asking for an upgrade kit to do the same because they didn't like the mini-Stealth Bomber as the chestplate, asked for a new head and the G1 arm cannon. Again, an after thought developed directly based on fan feedback.

They could fix this by taking longer to release their figures (like Maketoys, MMC and Fansproject do), show off their entire combiner before releasing their first figure (like Maketoys, MMC and Fansproject do) then make the necessary alterations to the figures while in development (like Maketoys, MMC and Fansproject do) and then end up being late to the party with the combiners (like Maketoys and MMC do, FP is out of this one only because the one combiner they've chosen so far is one no other company is doing so far).

Personally the upgrade kits are a bonus because they give me choices. I won't use the entire Uranos upgrade kit so I'm glad it's not the only option (i.e. the loud fans getting their way and me having to live with the final designs like I do with Maketoys, MMC and FP). I'd hate it if I couldn't display my Herc with the tread forearms and the original head he came with and I'd hate it if I had to live with the new Wings head on Uranos.

Yotsuyasan wrote:

synapse wrote:

Autobot032 wrote:Yeah, that "good relationship" has always been a smokescreen for "We're the same people, doing different things."

I don't know, but I guess it makes sense.

How does it make sense?

Are they companies that are friendly with one another? Sure. Do they do their best to not step on each others toes? Seems likely. (And something I wish we'd see more of in the Third Party world.) Do they occasionally share a bit of design work back and fourth? Maybe. Who knows?

But saying they are the same people doing different things (implying to me you think it is basically one company using two different names for some branding purpose) is ridiculous. Why would they need or want to do this? Fansproject already had great brand recognition and a reputation for solid quality. What would be served by them starting to release toys under a new, unknown name? And if it was to do "different things," Fansproject already has a diverse line-up with multiple sublines. I see no reason why, if Maketoys was just a branch of Fansproject, they wouldn't have just been treated as another subline and had their toys released as, "Fansproject Maketoys-01 Hover & Bomber," "Fansproject Maketoys-02 Battle Tanker," etc.

Why do some people have such a hard time believing they are, indeed, a separate company?

I'll admit I have no personal knowledge about the behind the scenes matters of either company, so I shall admit this is pure speculation, but since what I am debating also seems to be pure speculation, I am fine with this.

And that's just it. We've heard from some "in the know" who have said that there is a special relationship between MakeToys and FansProject; that they are basically the same people. We're not making this up. It comes from some inside information.

Maybe Va'al will confirm? I'm trying to remember who said this in the past. I don't know that the full justification on why the situation is the way it is was ever given. Just that Autobot032 is correct.

xyl360 wrote:Lots of stuff I agree with.

Well put. I was a little annoyed when the upgrade kit was announced for Uranos, but after thinking about it, realised that they were doing the same as with Herc. They made a more "Neo" combiner and when the loud G1 purists kicked up a stink they designed the upgrade kit.

It isn't possible to cater to both types of collectors with the one toy without a drastic price increase which would've turned off more people than attract. So the kit was done later.

Arctorro wrote:

xyl360 wrote:Lots of stuff I agree with.

Well put. I was a little annoyed when the upgrade kit was announced for Uranos, but after thinking about it, realised that they were doing the same as with Herc. They made a more "Neo" combiner and when the loud G1 purists kicked up a stink they designed the upgrade kit.

It isn't possible to cater to both types of collectors with the one toy without a drastic price increase which would've turned off more people than attract. So the kit was done later.

Exactly, and not only that, but the new chest itself was designed based on the chest mod that people were doing to their not-Silverbolt so it's not like they could have planned it out in advance to look like that because if you think about it, it doesn't make much sense to think in advance that people are going to want the chest to look like the chest of the central figure rather than a proper chest plate (unless we're talking about Predaking, of course ).

xyl360 wrote:

Arctorro wrote:

xyl360 wrote:Lots of stuff I agree with.

Well put. I was a little annoyed when the upgrade kit was announced for Uranos, but after thinking about it, realised that they were doing the same as with Herc. They made a more "Neo" combiner and when the loud G1 purists kicked up a stink they designed the upgrade kit.

It isn't possible to cater to both types of collectors with the one toy without a drastic price increase which would've turned off more people than attract. So the kit was done later.

Exactly, and not only that, but the new chest itself was designed based on the chest mod that people were doing to their not-Silverbolt so it's not like they could have planned it out in advance to look like that because if you think about it, it doesn't make much sense to think in advance that people are going to want the chest to look like the chest of the central figure rather than a proper chest plate (unless we're talking about Predaking, of course ).

The fact that they have to come out with these add-ons, and that fans get really frustrated with their as-is designs, is a problem in and of itself.

I was fine with Hercules without the Rage set, but I got it anyway for the shoulder extensions, and for the sake of completeness. I passed on Uranos - even with the Wings set, I'm not sold on the design/proportions.

Yotsuyasan wrote:How does it make sense?
[...]
Why do some people have such a hard time believing they are, indeed, a separate company?

Dude, did you get offended ot something? It's not like you're these companies' owner and we're trolling about them, chill

Yotsuyasan wrote:I'll admit I have no personal knowledge about the behind the scenes matters of either company, so I shall admit this is pure speculation, but since what I am debating also seems to be pure speculation, I am fine with this.

Then why the reaction? We're all just speculating and I personally don't mind or care if they're the same people or not as long as they keep making good products and care for their customers.

synapse wrote:Dude, did you get offended ot something? It's not like you're these companies' owner and we're trolling about them, chill

Then why the reaction? We're all just speculating and I personally don't mind or care if they're the same people or not as long as they keep making good products and care for their customers.

Where did it seem as if I got offended? (Although, while I normally appreciate a good condensing of a quoted post that people could just read further up the thread, your selective quoting of me did somehow make me seem a bit harsher out of context.) I was just questioning Autobot032's blanket statement that Fansproject and Maketoys are the same company (and since you had stated that it made sense, you just happened to be lumped in with my quoted reply).

I've never seen direct evidence of this, just people stating that other, unnamed "persons in the know" have said something to this effect. If someone wants to post a link with definitive proof showing this to be true, fine, I'll believe it. Until then, it is just speculation. And please, speculate away! I don't think they are the same company... but who knows, they could be! If I'm proven wrong, I shall admit to such. But I've yet to see any proof. Just vague statements of, "I know a guy who knows a guy who is in the know and who said this thing, so it must be true!"

But Autobot032 presented it as if it was fact, not speculation, and you agreed with him. Hence my post. I was not offended. My intent was merely point out that (unless someone can prove me wrong, which I shall be happy to accept) this is not a known truth, just a strong rumor in the fandom. I shall admit that I may find the rumor, in the absence of proof, to be annoying, and if that came across too strongly in my earlier post then I apologize. But offence had not been taken on my end, and was not intended towards yours.

Edit:

Well, out of curiosity, I did a bit of digging on my own via Google. I saw many instances of people discussing the Maketoys is Fansprject rumor, but without it ever being stated as fact. I saw a few people indeed stating it as fact, but with no proof whatsoever. (This one seemed particularly cheeky.) And in my (admittedly not extensive) search, I found one example of someone attempting to name a source for the rumor, but even then it seemed like second hand knowledge that even the person naming it sounded dubious about.

(And if this alleged source's reasoning behind why Fansprojct supposedly created Maktoys is true, seems strange to me that the Menasor we're getting is from Fansproject instead of from Maketoys.)

Granted, I looked for all of about ten or fifteen minutes, so I could have missed something. (The internet is a big place, after all.) But I'd even more then ever need to see some reputable proof to take the whole "Maketoys is Fanspoject" thing as more then rumor.

At most, I'd think they are companies that are friendly, perhaps with Fansproject helping Maketoys out a bit when they were first get started, and perhaps still maintaining communications to assure they don't step on one another with competing projects... but still separate companies.

(Additional edit just to fix a miscoded link.)

Yotsuyasan wrote:Where did it seem as if I got offended?

(1) Your writing seemed really impassioned.
(2) It doesn't help that most of your posts are an extensive 3 paragraphs.

megatronus wrote:

Yotsuyasan wrote:Where did it seem as if I got offended?

(1) Your writing seemed really impassioned.
(2) It doesn't help that most of your posts are an extensive 3 paragraphs.

Oh, whoops. If I'd known someone was in the midst of replying to my last post, I'd have put what I just added to it as a new post rather then just adding to the last one.

As for point 1... well, I suppose I shall take that as a complement that I am able to express emotion through my writing. Although perhaps not always the intended one. I do always think that an unfortunate side effect of online text-based communication. In reading the written word, you lack experiencing vocal inflections or body language that would often be helpful in understanding the full intent of what it is that is being said when there is any chance of something being taken more then one way. And it is made even more difficult in that in many ways, we are barely above anonymous names on a screen to one another here, so we even lack personal knowledge of one another to help fill in the missing clues towards intent that we might otherwise be able to better guess at if what we are reading was written by someone we know well.

As for point 2... well, never let it be said that I am not a verbose son of a... (ahem!) I do tend to go on a bit when writing. But I suppose it is just my style as it evolved over time. (If one were to look at something I wrote in, say, 1997... it's a bit less true compared to something more recent.) Probably why I never really took to that Twitter thing. 140 characters? Please! Like that is ever going to happen!

Yotsuyasan wrote:well, never let it be said that I am not a verbose son of a... (ahem!)

megatronus wrote:

Yotsuyasan wrote:well, never let it be said that I am not a verbose son of a... (ahem!)

(Man, I wanted to take a bow... But the only good bowing smilies I could find were expressing supplication rather then appreciation. Ah, well. Hopefully what I ended up with instead shall do.)

Haha, smart people with words are funny

GiveMeSkyfire wrote:Haha, smart people with words are funny

People using words trying to be smart are funny!

robotmel wrote:

GiveMeSkyfire wrote:Haha, smart people with words are funny

People using words trying to be smart are funny!

Damn it, I was hoping for some more updates or pictures of the lovely Quantron!

Oh well

Yeah, some of us like to get chatty.


Especially when there is a lack of updates...

megatronus wrote:

xyl360 wrote:

Arctorro wrote:

xyl360 wrote:Lots of stuff I agree with.

Well put. I was a little annoyed when the upgrade kit was announced for Uranos, but after thinking about it, realised that they were doing the same as with Herc. They made a more "Neo" combiner and when the loud G1 purists kicked up a stink they designed the upgrade kit.

It isn't possible to cater to both types of collectors with the one toy without a drastic price increase which would've turned off more people than attract. So the kit was done later.

Exactly, and not only that, but the new chest itself was designed based on the chest mod that people were doing to their not-Silverbolt so it's not like they could have planned it out in advance to look like that because if you think about it, it doesn't make much sense to think in advance that people are going to want the chest to look like the chest of the central figure rather than a proper chest plate (unless we're talking about Predaking, of course ).

The fact that they have to come out with these add-ons, and that fans get really frustrated with their as-is designs, is a problem in and of itself.

I was fine with Hercules without the Rage set, but I got it anyway for the shoulder extensions, and for the sake of completeness. I passed on Uranos - even with the Wings set, I'm not sold on the design/proportions.

The fact that Maketoys doesn't come out with add-ons to improve their sets (and neither has anyone else yet) is one of the reasons I go with TFC. At least I know they'll probably fix anything I don't like about it down the road, even if it costs me a bit extra to get it .

xyl360 wrote:The fact that Maketoys doesn't come out with add-ons to improve their sets (and neither has anyone else yet) is one of the reasons I go with TFC. At least I know they'll probably fix anything I don't like about it down the road, even if it costs me a bit extra to get it .

That's certainly one way to look at it!

megatronus wrote:

xyl360 wrote:The fact that Maketoys doesn't come out with add-ons to improve their sets (and neither has anyone else yet) is one of the reasons I go with TFC. At least I know they'll probably fix anything I don't like about it down the road, even if it costs me a bit extra to get it .

That's certainly one way to look at it!

Yeah, and it's nothing against FP, Maketoys or MMC, but to be honest, I'm just not into their styles that much. In fact, if anyone else had done the Stunticons, I would have skipped the FP set. It needs a lot of work to really satisfy my expectations for a third party combiner, not the least of which is the size of the figures themselves (something very unlikely to be fixed without an entirely new set from another company ), but since there's no other choice, that's who I'm going with (I'm an impatient and picky bastard, so I want it now and I want it right, and if I can't have it right, then I'll at least have it right now ).

If TFC cancel their plans for a Computron then I'll probably get this (assuming no one else does one that looks better than this set), but for now, I'm waiting it out because I think TFC still plan on doing theirs and I'm confident that it will fit in more with my personal tastes (which is what this is really all about anyway).

I mean seriously, look at the Predaking race. We have 3 fine sets that all look really good (yes, including UT's), but all with very diverse aesthetics so now we have choices. If the same happens with other combiners, all the better, but I'll never complain about being nickeled and dimed by any of these companies as long as they're giving me the optional components to make the finished product look as good as I want it to, including TFC and everyone else. I mean hell, who complained when FP offered those cannon upgrades and whatnot for their City Commander set? Everyone wanted them, everyone bought them and no one complained even though it cost them extra money to get them. TFC does the same and people give them a hard time about it. I guess I just don't see the difference.

xyl360 wrote:Yeah, and it's nothing against FP, Maketoys or MMC, but to be honest, I'm just not into their styles that much. In fact, if anyone else had done the Stunticons, I would have skipped the FP set. It needs a lot of work to really satisfy my expectations for a third party combiner, not the least of which is the size of the figures themselves (something very unlikely to be fixed without an entirely new set from another company )

That's a bit premature to say when we don't even have the full combiner in hand, don't you think?

On their size, it doesn't bother me too much. The cars are essentially large scouts/small deluxes. For my purposes and sense of scale, those cars fit well with the relative size of the construction vehicles that comprise Hercules, and the monstrous beasts that will eventually become Feral Rex. Intimidator will only be slightly shorter than these two beefy dudes, and I think that's a good fit given the 'cons alt modes. You're obviously free to disagree.

On style, TFC is probably the company I like least. The blockiness makes TFC products more toys than action figures. Some people like that, but I'm not a fan. Though Hercules suffers from this IMHO, he's an acceptable alternative to Giant, whose aesthetics I dislike even more. I generally frown upon MakeToys stuff, and throw my towel in with MMC & FP. But those are just my personal preferences.

xyl360 wrote:If TFC cancel their plans for a Computron then I'll probably get this (assuming no one else does one that looks better than this set), but for now, I'm waiting it out because I think TFC still plan on doing theirs and I'm confident that it will fit in more with my personal tastes (which is what this is really all about anyway).

Yup!

xyl360 wrote:I mean seriously, look at the Predaking race. We have 3 fine sets that all look really good (yes, including UT's), but all with very diverse aesthetics so now we have choices. If the same happens with other combiners, all the better, but I'll never complain about being nickeled and dimed by any of these companies as long as they're giving me the optional components to make the finished product look as good as I want it to, including TFC and everyone else. I mean hell, who complained when FP offered those cannon upgrades and whatnot for their City Commander set? Everyone wanted them, everyone bought them and no one complained even though it cost them extra money to get them. TFC does the same and people give them a hard time about it. I guess I just don't see the difference.

I dunno. There was quite some time between the release of City Commander and the upgrades. Between those times, there was quite the advancement in 3rd Party sophistication, and I think, realizing that City Commander was becoming a somewhat outdated design, they decided to give some more bells and whistles.

The add-ons for the TFC combiners are fine. But:
(1) Hercules was perfectly functional and awesome as-is. It felt sort of weird that TFC wasn't standing behind their original design. After all, people that wanted G1 style forearms bought Giant.
(2) The as-is Uranos design was just poorly thought out... I don't have it, but the upgrade kit was flat out necessary.

Yea, it's great to have options, but I'd rather you grab my attention the first time by doing something right. Hence, why I have Hercules but not Uranos.

megatronus wrote:

xyl360 wrote:Yeah, and it's nothing against FP, Maketoys or MMC, but to be honest, I'm just not into their styles that much. In fact, if anyone else had done the Stunticons, I would have skipped the FP set. It needs a lot of work to really satisfy my expectations for a third party combiner, not the least of which is the size of the figures themselves (something very unlikely to be fixed without an entirely new set from another company )

That's a bit premature to say when we don't even have the full combiner in hand, don't you think?

Not at all. I'm not just talking about the combined form here, but the individual bots/cars (I bought 2 sets so I could display them in car mode and combined mode ).

megatronus wrote:I dunno. There was quite some time between the release of City Commander and the upgrades. Between those times, there was quite the advancement in 3rd Party sophistication, and I think, realizing that City Commander was becoming a somewhat outdated design, they decided to give some more bells and whistles.

Dude, no way. You know FP planned on busting out those shoulder cannons originally. He even had the peg holes in the shoulders already (hehe, I don't know that for a fact, I'm just giving you a hard time, you're probably right).

megatronus wrote:The add-ons for the TFC combiners are fine. But:
(1) Hercules was perfectly functional and awesome as-is. It felt sort of weird that TFC wasn't standing behind their original design. After all, people that wanted G1 style forearms bought Giant.

They did the same exact thing that FP and MMC have been doing with theirs, except they did it later in the release phase instead of delaying the dev phase (remember how long it was for the first MMC figure to hit because they kept tweaking the designs based on fan feedback?). I'd rather get the figures now and buy the upgrade kit later than have to wait it out, especially when I don't necessarily *want* them to change the design (I cite the fact that the shoulder bits were the only pieces I used for Herc, and the fact that I left his tread-forearms as they shipped cuz I think they look 10x cooler that way, so if they'd changed that, I would have been pissed, even though that's what MMC would have done).

megatronus wrote:(2) The as-is Uranos design was just poorly thought out... I don't have it, but the upgrade kit was flat out necessary.

Yeah, I can sort of see that, but I also think that TFC figured people would accept a somewhat updated design. I mean, you've seen MMC's Predaking right? People love it but it doesn't exactly scream G1. UT's does and most people are down on it/skipping it, so it's purely a matter of taste. TFC got creative with Uranos (even including an extra figure which forms the chestplate) and people (including me) gave them a hard time about it. MMC goes way off the mark for a "Geewun" Predaking and they are at the head of the pack (against a cheaper competitor who is more slavish to the G1 designs/aesthetics). Then of course there's TFC, who are doing an entirely different take on the Predacons, and in my opinion, have the most comprehensive looking beast modes (so much so that I'm tempted to get 2 sets to do the same as I'm doing with FP's Stunticons) and they're in the middle (I'm guessing based on feedback I've read between the 3).

megatronus wrote:Yea, it's great to have options, but I'd rather you grab my attention the first time by doing something right. Hence, why I have Hercules but not Uranos.

Sure, that's reasonable and I can't fault you for seeing it that way. But like I said, I just think that with Uranos, TFC tried something different and the fans just didn't like it so they threw out a "patch" (the upgrade set). I still don't see how they could have known that people would be doing that chest mod (although I could see them doing something more "G1" to begin with, which I'm sure would have seen less complaints than the stealth fighter chest).

Well I, for one, agree with Megatronus! I have yet to see any TFC figures which inspire me to get them. They should be the dictionary of 'MEH'. Certainly not bad in any way, but just too bland to pass comment. Fansproject, MMC and to an extent Maketoys take risks with design, that is why they catch the eye for better or worse. They polarise opinion is what I mean, whereas I have no opinion on TFC other than the fact that them releasing their 'upgrade sets' is a pretty cynical move.