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Leonardo wrote:Take your lips off my pipe!
Rodimus Prime wrote:I don't remember, wasn't Wolverine around in the cartoon of the 90s when it got to the Apocalypse story?Ironhidensh wrote:I don't think so. This takes place during his weapon x years.Rodimus Prime wrote:Is Wolverine supposed to have at least a cameo?
Ironhidensh wrote:Yes, but this movie verse is in no way following the comic time line.
Predaprince wrote:I am very thankful to have posters like sto_vo_kor_2000 who is so energetic about improving others' understanding and enjoyment of the TF universe
Stormrider wrote:You often add interesting insights to conversations that makes the fledglings think and challenges even the sharpest minds
T-Macksimus wrote:I consider you and editor to be amongst the most "scholarly" in terms of your knowledge, demeanor and general approach
Leonardo wrote:Take your lips off my pipe!
Ironhidensh wrote:I believe Havok is actually old enough to be Cyclop's daddy.
Predaprince wrote:I am very thankful to have posters like sto_vo_kor_2000 who is so energetic about improving others' understanding and enjoyment of the TF universe
Stormrider wrote:You often add interesting insights to conversations that makes the fledglings think and challenges even the sharpest minds
T-Macksimus wrote:I consider you and editor to be amongst the most "scholarly" in terms of your knowledge, demeanor and general approach
SW's SilverHammer wrote:Eat my ass funpub.
Burn wrote:And this is for taking Nemesis Maximo seriously.
*high fives Silly in the face*
carytheone wrote:I can't be assed to do any better right now.
Nemesis Maximo wrote:X-Men Origins is no longer canon. So Cyclops' appearance there does not count.
Predaprince wrote:I am very thankful to have posters like sto_vo_kor_2000 who is so energetic about improving others' understanding and enjoyment of the TF universe
Stormrider wrote:You often add interesting insights to conversations that makes the fledglings think and challenges even the sharpest minds
T-Macksimus wrote:I consider you and editor to be amongst the most "scholarly" in terms of your knowledge, demeanor and general approach
sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:Nemesis Maximo wrote:X-Men Origins is no longer canon. So Cyclops' appearance there does not count.
this again?
I see claims like this all the time, so far no one has been able to muster up a effective argument that proves all the events in "origins" are no longer canon.
yes, some history has changed, thats no reason to assume everything did.
for example, theres no reason in hell the changes made to history would effect the birth of Cyclopes since he would have been born before the chsanges were made
SW's SilverHammer wrote:Eat my ass funpub.
Burn wrote:And this is for taking Nemesis Maximo seriously.
*high fives Silly in the face*
carytheone wrote:I can't be assed to do any better right now.
Nemesis Maximo wrote:Also, consider this: in Origins, Scott Summers is in high school; so he's like, 17 at the most right? If Origins happens during the 1985 mostly, that means he was born in 1968 at the earliest. And since he would only have been 5 during the events of the 70s seen in DoFP, there's plenty of wiggle room for his history to change. Also Stryker, who was originally portrayed as a middle-age man in the late seventies/early eighties, is now supposed to be 20/30 years old, and hasn't yet met Wolverine even after the Vietnam War, which TOTALLY AND COMPLETELY is out of sync with Origins.. If anything is still canon from that film, it's Logan's birth and...that's just about it. Who can say which wars he was in anymore?
Wigglez wrote:Just remember. The sword is an extension of your arm. Use it as if you're going to karate chop someone with your really long sharp ass hand.
Nemesis Maximo wrote:This is an interview L.S. Donner, basically 50% of the reason the X-men are on the big screen at all. In it, she says that "forget about X-Men Origins: Wolverine" and X3 as well.
Also, consider this: in Origins, Scott Summers is in high school; so he's like, 17 at the most right? If Origins happens during the 1985 mostly, that means he was born in 1968 at the earliest. And since he would only have been 5 during the events of the 70s seen in DoFP, there's plenty of wiggle room for his history to change.
Stryker, middle age in "origins"............he didnt look that way to me, at best he looked about to be in his early 30's to me, which would fit with his look in the 2nd x film.Also Stryker, who was originally portrayed as a middle-age man in the late seventies/early eighties, is now supposed to be 20/30 years old, and hasn't yet met Wolverine even after the Vietnam War, which TOTALLY AND COMPLETELY is out of sync with Origins..
Predaprince wrote:I am very thankful to have posters like sto_vo_kor_2000 who is so energetic about improving others' understanding and enjoyment of the TF universe
Stormrider wrote:You often add interesting insights to conversations that makes the fledglings think and challenges even the sharpest minds
T-Macksimus wrote:I consider you and editor to be amongst the most "scholarly" in terms of your knowledge, demeanor and general approach
Shadowman wrote:Nemesis Maximo wrote:Also, consider this: in Origins, Scott Summers is in high school; so he's like, 17 at the most right? If Origins happens during the 1985 mostly, that means he was born in 1968 at the earliest. And since he would only have been 5 during the events of the 70s seen in DoFP, there's plenty of wiggle room for his history to change. Also Stryker, who was originally portrayed as a middle-age man in the late seventies/early eighties, is now supposed to be 20/30 years old, and hasn't yet met Wolverine even after the Vietnam War, which TOTALLY AND COMPLETELY is out of sync with Origins.. If anything is still canon from that film, it's Logan's birth and...that's just about it. Who can say which wars he was in anymore?
Also, Deadpool takes place in the modern day, completely disregarding everything involving Wade Wilson in Origins, including his age and involvement with Weapon X.
Predaprince wrote:I am very thankful to have posters like sto_vo_kor_2000 who is so energetic about improving others' understanding and enjoyment of the TF universe
Stormrider wrote:You often add interesting insights to conversations that makes the fledglings think and challenges even the sharpest minds
T-Macksimus wrote:I consider you and editor to be amongst the most "scholarly" in terms of your knowledge, demeanor and general approach
Stuartmaximus wrote:ID4 Resurgence
sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:Nemesis Maximo wrote:This is an interview L.S. Donner, basically 50% of the reason the X-men are on the big screen at all. In it, she says that "forget about X-Men Origins: Wolverine" and X3 as well.
thanks for the vid
but you should know by now that interviews of this sort are not ,and can not effect canon
Also, consider this: in Origins, Scott Summers is in high school; so he's like, 17 at the most right? If Origins happens during the 1985 mostly, that means he was born in 1968 at the earliest. And since he would only have been 5 during the events of the 70s seen in DoFP, there's plenty of wiggle room for his history to change.
well i figured he was about 15 in "origins" because his powers are first showing, but i can go with 17 for the sake of this conversation
and sure, its possible some of his history changed, but its equally possible none of it did.
and for sure the changes to history happened after his birth
Also Stryker, who was originally portrayed as a middle-age man in the late seventies/early eighties, is now supposed to be 20/30 years old, and hasn't yet met Wolverine even after the Vietnam War, which TOTALLY AND COMPLETELY is out of sync with Origins..
Stryker, middle age in "origins"............he didnt look that way to me, at best he looked about to be in his early 30's to me, which would fit with his look in the 2nd x film.
but is one of the hazards of switching actors on characters, some are taller, different eye colors, look older or younger, fatter, thiner, hell even sticking with original actors can lead to inconsistent looks.
its a good thing what or how old a character "looks" like is not a sticking point in consideration in arguments over canon....unless theres a huge discrepancy like childhood to 30 years old, or if a age number was given in the film
SW's SilverHammer wrote:Eat my ass funpub.
Burn wrote:And this is for taking Nemesis Maximo seriously.
*high fives Silly in the face*
carytheone wrote:I can't be assed to do any better right now.
Nemesis Maximo wrote:Sure they can.
and for sure the changes to history happened after his birth
And his history has already changed: in Origins, he met an already bald, at least middle aged, walking Prof. X. Whereas in Apocalypse, which is now canon, he knows the professor as a paraplegic with a glorious mullet. Also, in Origins, he helped a high school aged Emma Frost escape the Weapon X program, even though 20 years earlier she was a seductress working for Sebastian Shaw.
If we use Danny Huston's real age, he was 47 at the time of Origins' release. So then it wouldn't be too far off to assume he was 47 when he recruited Logan and Creed into his outfit, right? In about 1973-ish.
But in a continuity heavy franchise? I think it matters a great deal.
Predaprince wrote:I am very thankful to have posters like sto_vo_kor_2000 who is so energetic about improving others' understanding and enjoyment of the TF universe
Stormrider wrote:You often add interesting insights to conversations that makes the fledglings think and challenges even the sharpest minds
T-Macksimus wrote:I consider you and editor to be amongst the most "scholarly" in terms of your knowledge, demeanor and general approach
Wigglez wrote:Just remember. The sword is an extension of your arm. Use it as if you're going to karate chop someone with your really long sharp ass hand.
Burn wrote:Stuartmaximus wrote:ID4 Resurgence
What's that got to do with Marvel?
Predaprince wrote:I am very thankful to have posters like sto_vo_kor_2000 who is so energetic about improving others' understanding and enjoyment of the TF universe
Stormrider wrote:You often add interesting insights to conversations that makes the fledglings think and challenges even the sharpest minds
T-Macksimus wrote:I consider you and editor to be amongst the most "scholarly" in terms of your knowledge, demeanor and general approach
Shadowman wrote:Sto, I sure hope you recognize that your argument has devolved into "Nuh uh, that totally doesn't count!"
I mean, seriously, who died and put you in charge of continuity that you get to determine authorial intent? Origins and X3 aren't canon anymore. Do what everyone else did and cheer over it.
Predaprince wrote:I am very thankful to have posters like sto_vo_kor_2000 who is so energetic about improving others' understanding and enjoyment of the TF universe
Stormrider wrote:You often add interesting insights to conversations that makes the fledglings think and challenges even the sharpest minds
T-Macksimus wrote:I consider you and editor to be amongst the most "scholarly" in terms of your knowledge, demeanor and general approach
sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:Shadowman wrote:Sto, I sure hope you recognize that your argument has devolved into "Nuh uh, that totally doesn't count!"
I mean, seriously, who died and put you in charge of continuity that you get to determine authorial intent? Origins and X3 aren't canon anymore. Do what everyone else did and cheer over it.
hardly.
my argument is rooted on well established norms and practics from this kind of fiction and fandoms.
sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:and you have participated more then enough "canon debates" on this fansite alone to know that authorial intent is worthless as far as canon is considered.
sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:what i want for the series is also not an issue here.
im just pointing out the solid facts as we have been given them.
sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:anyone can believe what they want, but so far nothing seen or said in the films completely wipes out every event seen in X-3 and Origins
Wigglez wrote:Just remember. The sword is an extension of your arm. Use it as if you're going to karate chop someone with your really long sharp ass hand.
Shadowman wrote:Um...established norms and practices of...what, exactly? You can't seriously mean superhero fiction, because those go through large-scale retcons all the time.
what writrers say and do change all the time, the intent for one film can change by the time its completedI know that some people consider it worthless. I have never once it to meant that it is.
We've been given facts that Origins is no longer canon, the issue is that you and you alone don't count it because it isn't from what you and you alone consider to be the "correct" source.
Explain Emma Frost, then. While you're at it, explain how Xavier can walk and use his telepathy at the same time in Origins.
Also, as for X3 no longer being canon, dude, Jean, Charles, and Scott are alive again.
Predaprince wrote:I am very thankful to have posters like sto_vo_kor_2000 who is so energetic about improving others' understanding and enjoyment of the TF universe
Stormrider wrote:You often add interesting insights to conversations that makes the fledglings think and challenges even the sharpest minds
T-Macksimus wrote:I consider you and editor to be amongst the most "scholarly" in terms of your knowledge, demeanor and general approach
Wigglez wrote:Just remember. The sword is an extension of your arm. Use it as if you're going to karate chop someone with your really long sharp ass hand.
sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:btw, i just noticed something you said before, you said "origins took place in 1985 or so.?
no, it took place in the mid to late 70's.
Nemesis Maximo wrote:
Sure they can.
no they cant, no matter whos making the statements.
Not even comments and interviews made by Geene Rodenberry ,the creator of star trek, were canon.
to be called "canon" it must be something see or said within the body of the fiction itself, not from anything outside of it.So if its not made clear in the film itself then its not canon.
And his history has already changed: in Origins, he met an already bald, at least middle aged, walking Prof. X. Whereas in Apocalypse, which is now canon, he knows the professor as a paraplegic with a glorious mullet. Also, in Origins, he helped a high school aged Emma Frost escape the Weapon X program, even though 20 years earlier she was a seductress working for Sebastian Shaw.
Emma is easy to explain.
"origins" gave us a no mental powers, Emma Silverfox, sister of Kylie Silverfox.
the bald thing isint an issue, he refused to shave his head in "first class
its poossible he shaved his head in one timeline and didnt in the next.
not to mention he couldnt walk at the end of "first class" and walked again at the start of "DOFP", so maybe they were experimenting with Beasts formula allowing him to walk a bit from time to time
3] pro-x may have never been there at all,[in origins] what we and the other escapees saws may have been a telepathic astral image
If we use Danny Huston's real age, he was 47 at the time of Origins' release. So then it wouldn't be too far off to assume he was 47 when he recruited Logan and Creed into his outfit, right? In about 1973-ish.
its never safe to assume a characters age based on that of the actor
But in a continuity heavy franchise? I think it matters a great deal.
you are free to feel that way.
but longer running shows/franchises have proved that school of thought wrong
SW's SilverHammer wrote:Eat my ass funpub.
Burn wrote:And this is for taking Nemesis Maximo seriously.
*high fives Silly in the face*
carytheone wrote:I can't be assed to do any better right now.
sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:Burn wrote:Stuartmaximus wrote:ID4 Resurgence
What's that got to do with Marvel?
to be fair, marvel did some id4 related comics
Shadowman wrote:It's really silly that you're trying to argue against the official word just because it wasn't stated in the exact place for you to consider it real. Origins and X3 are non-canon. No amount of arguing is going to make you correct, it's just going to make you look sillier and sillier that you keep trying to argue for two movies that everyone hates.
Jesus Christ, get off it already.
Leonardo wrote:Take your lips off my pipe!
Shadowman wrote:It's really silly that you're trying to argue against the official word just because it wasn't stated in the exact place for you to consider it real. Origins and X3 are non-canon. No amount of arguing is going to make you correct, it's just going to make you look sillier and sillier that you keep trying to argue for two movies that everyone hates.
Jesus Christ, get off it already.
Predaprince wrote:I am very thankful to have posters like sto_vo_kor_2000 who is so energetic about improving others' understanding and enjoyment of the TF universe
Stormrider wrote:You often add interesting insights to conversations that makes the fledglings think and challenges even the sharpest minds
T-Macksimus wrote:I consider you and editor to be amongst the most "scholarly" in terms of your knowledge, demeanor and general approach
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