The Energon Pub

KoH4711 wrote:You know, good point... you don't hear George Lucas, Steven Spielberg and Alex Proyas bitching about fans. Because, heck, they don't interact with fans at all.

I can't remember a movie that's been this open with this many members of the production crew. That communication remained even after stuff started leaking out and was bashed all over the place. And the war's never been over, there are still people who are going as far as to throw personal insults at Bay because the Optimus Prime in his movie has flames on it. But yeah, he has no right at all to be angry.

That's my point. If all they're going to say is some variation of "we really listened to the fans and really took their ideas into consideration because we want to make this the best possible film" or "boo-hoo, the stupid fanboys always complaining about the movie" then they ought to either stop it or decide one way or the other. When the early images and script leaked we were told to shut-up because they weren't finalized and we had nothing to worry about. Then, conversely, we were told to keep voicing our opinions about Megatron because "they were listening." Megatron got a new head but Starscream is exactly as he was and all the things people were really complaining about the script have apparently remained intact.

If their 'openness' is nothing more than two-faced damage control then what is the point? Fanbases bitch about films on licensed properties all the time. Where are the interviews where Bryan Singer, Brett Ratner, Sam Raimi, Tim Story or Christopher Nolan bitch and whine about the fanbases? Even Joel Schumacher for the most part had the sense to bite his lip and suck it up after his Batman movies were trashed (after release AND in production). I mean, the movie is guaranteed to be a financial success simply because of the brand name. If not for the brand name both Bay and Murphy would probably be gearing-up for their newest domestic bombs. Why can't they just maintain a bit of decor and be happy about that? Instead they've got to behave like the sort of Hollywood stereotypes most people only thought existed in sensationalized biographies, bitching about the same people they expect to pay to see their stuff and openly in-fighting, marking remarks about how "so-and-so is going to go out and give interviews claiming he was on board the project entire time" yadda yadda yadda. It's as if nobody on the project has any idea what it is to maintain professional decorum, and then they cry and whine about how so many people think so poorly of them without ever having met them.

If you're going to be 'open and interactive' with fans of an existing property then you need to expect a portion of the people being completely unhappy with what you're doing. Going on record bitch and whine about it isn't going to win your case or even make you seem like a sensible person. It's childish. And if the portion of the people complaining is just too large to ignore, then maybe you're doing something wrong?

Imagine that there's never been a Batman movie except for the Adam West version. Sure some people have a soft spot for it- but still, it wasn't "the Batman movie."

Enter Steven Speilberg- who says, "I think Batman's a great idea for a movie. I really see it as a story about Robin's search for a father."

Bat-fans are both overjoyed, and confused. Speilberg wants to help make a movie about Batman, but why is he talking about Robin and his father?

Things get stranger.

Director Michael Bay is hired. At first he shows disdain for the material- calling it a "silly comic book film." But after thinking over the concept he believes he can rework it into something he'll enjoy directing.

When the first images of Batman get leaked- fans aren't sure what to make of him. It appears that Batman has no cape, or ears, or anything Bat-like about him, save the symbol on his chest. When questioned, Michael Bay explains that he wanted to make Batman "more real" by removing the silly looking elements and making him a black suited Ninja. He justifies his actions by reminding people that everyone loves "**** ninjas blowing up ****."

Further confusion is added to the mix when an early draft of the script leaks. In the script there is little to no mention of Batman's parents, the joker is Bruce Wayne's brother, and the majority of the story revolves around Robin trying solve a mystery involving his grandfather's mysterious pair of glasses.

To add insult to injury, it appears that Robin kills the Joker- who appears for roughly twenty minutes and has four or five lines.

Images of the joker leak. Sure, he's purple... all purple. He also looks a lot like venom. In fact, he looks more like venom than the Joker. He's smiling... but his mouth is full of sharp teeth, and he's all purple, and veiny, and has insect, claw, hand, things...

Shia Lebouf is cast as Robin. No one seems to know him as an actor, but Speilberg likes him, and assures the fans he'll bring the the emotion needed to the movie.

More images are leaked to the net. This time we get to see other characters filtered through Bay's vision. Most of them are Ninjas. Most of them are blowing **** up. You have a hard time telling commissioner Gordon apart from Alfred, because they're both dressed up in black with lots of machine guns hanging off them.

Aside from the Joker, there are at least six more villains in the film- but they all look like monster insects. That's not too bad, since most of them are made up for the movie- however the penguin looks to be eight feet tall and carries around a bazooka, but no top hat. Two-face doesn't seem to have a face at all and his origin as Harvey Dent seems non existent.

Fan reaction turns from sour to angry. In an attempt to smooth things over, Adam West is cast as Batman. While this pleases some fans, others are even further frustrated by West's inclusion.

A teaser trailer is released. It shows an unnamed villain attacking a mailbox in Metropolis. No one understands why.

A second, "real trailer" is released. Fan reaction is suddenly split. It certainly looks cool- with all the Ninja's jumping around, public transit blowing up, and little kids looking up at Batman in awe... but you wouldn't really know it was Batman, except that he has the symbol on his chest. But it does look cool... with all those ninjas blowing up ****.

People on the street see the trailer, and get excited. They never knew Batman was so cool. Comics flood the shelves detailing the adventures of this new Batman- replacing the older line of Batman comics.

Fans are tired, and a little sad. They miss their old Batman, they can't seem to avoid the new one, and it does look cool. But it's not "the Batman movie" BINO! BINO! BINO!

AbsumZer0 wrote:That's my point. If all they're going to say is some variation of "we really listened to the fans and really took their ideas into consideration because we want to make this the best possible film" or "boo-hoo, the stupid fanboys always complaining about the movie" then they ought to either stop it or decide one way or the other. When the early images and script leaked we were told to shut-up because they weren't finalized and we had nothing to worry about. Then, conversely, we were told to keep voicing our opinions about Megatron because "they were listening." Megatron got a new head but Starscream is exactly as he was and all the things people were really complaining about the script have apparently remained intact.

If their 'openness' is nothing more than two-faced damage control then what is the point? Fanbases bitch about films on licensed properties all the time. Where are the interviews where Bryan Singer, Brett Ratner, Sam Raimi, Tim Story or Christopher Nolan bitch and whine about the fanbases? Even Joel Schumacher for the most part had the sense to bite his lip and suck it up after his Batman movies were trashed (after release AND in production). I mean, the movie is guaranteed to be a financial success simply because of the brand name. If not for the brand name both Bay and Murphy would probably be gearing-up for their newest domestic bombs. Why can't they just maintain a bit of decor and be happy about that? Instead they've got to behave like the sort of Hollywood stereotypes most people only thought existed in sensationalized biographies, bitching about the same people they expect to pay to see their stuff and openly in-fighting, marking remarks about how "so-and-so is going to go out and give interviews claiming he was on board the project entire time" yadda yadda yadda. It's as if nobody on the project has any idea what it is to maintain professional decorum, and then they cry and whine about how so many people think so poorly of them without ever having met them.

If you're going to be 'open and interactive' with fans of an existing property then you need to expect a portion of the people being completely unhappy with what you're doing. Going on record bitch and whine about it isn't going to win your case or even make you seem like a sensible person. It's childish. And if the portion of the people complaining is just too large to ignore, then maybe you're doing something wrong?

If it was just that they didn't like what he was doing and he was complaining, I'd probably feel differently. But the amount of personal attacks I've seen against the man, from the day he was signed, before even a single thing about his approach came out, like I said, I can't blame him for being a little ticked off. I've seen people saying things like they'd like to meet him in a dark alley, wish he'd die in a car crash, etc... all over a movie.

And honestly, the changes don't start and end with Bay. The execs at the film studio would have to approve any changes, because scrapping the designs and starting over would almost certainly have made them go over budget. Hasbro and the company licensing each vehicle probably have at least some degree of approval in the designs, and we're not really privy to what the agreements might be. Robert Rodriguez's book, Rebel Without a Crew, is just one example of how utterly insane the Hollywood scene can be. Even this summer, think about how Avi Arad forced Sam Raimi to use Venom in Spiderman 3, despite the fact he had no real interest in the character(and frankly, that showed). And, of course, everyone involved also has the difficult task of pulling in the non-Transformers fans, the people who might just view this as a giant toy commercial. All told, I wouldn't really want to be in Michael Bay's shoes.

Yeah, I kinda wish Bay had phrased what he said better, but especially not knowing what's going on behind the scenes, I'm not sure I would have said things any differently if I'd gone through what he did. The guy may not have been my first choice to direct Transformers, but I've found his movies entertaining in the past and he handles action pretty well.

Besides... it looks like Bay's going back to Disney for Prince of Persia. He'd be working on Prince of Persia up until the Summer '09 release date, which means if a TF sequel is officially greenlit, it would need a new director.

As much as I'm keeping an open mind... I do wonder what Gore Verbanski's got lined up. Because man, I would LOVE to see what Crash McCreery would do with the inevitable new designs.

'Sooo Trypticon'....Amen brother, Amen (or Sister if it so applies)


Now, did Bay in fact state right from the start that this film was going to be an entirely new take on the franchise, or was this stance basically damage control?

SoooTrypticon wrote:Fans are tired, and a little sad. They miss their old Batman, they can't seem to avoid the new one, and it does look cool. But it's not "the Batman movie" BINO! BINO! BINO!

blah blah blah, yawn yawn yawn.

No really. Nice story. But when you say "fans", as i've said this week already to someone else in another thread. Please do not assume that ALL "fans" think the same way.

I know some people have trouble understanding this concept, but there are people out there who like the designs, they like what they've read of the story, they like what they've seen in the previews.

Catch all that? Some "fans" like what this movie is going to be about.

Oh and of course comparing Transformers to Batman is also pretty pointless, but that was discussed in another thread two weeks ago as well. So yeah, i'll be off in a hammock waiting for something original to be said. (But once again, good job on the story spinning, aside from the goddamn spoiler which I was trying to avoid (so thanks for ruining a part of the movie for me) it was well written! )

AbsumZer0 wrote:Yeah, you hear George Lucas, Steven Spielberg and Alex Proyas complaining about fanboys picking apart their films all the time.

Oh, wait, no. They have class (and talent). I was thinking of Uwe Boll and Paul WS Anderson.

Lucas told fanboys to get a life.

Steven completely doesn't care for their existence. He's not even online.

Have you read Proyas' forum where he slayed Isaac Asimov's fans for criticizing i,Robot?

James Cameron told the AP that fanboys & the interent are "fan-fcuking us to death."

Bay has been the only A-list director that has interacted DIRECTLY with any fanbase period.

Powermaster Jazz wrote:He really didn't say anything insulting there at all. All he said was that he is aware that there are fanboys complaining and he heard they might protest at his office when he's not there. You know...the truth.

And they did protest....except at the wrong place. They protested at his old offices and not the new location.

Slovman wrote:Beyond coming off as an ass, it's not good business to insult people you're trying to get money from. And while I'm well aware that Transformers die-hards are only going to be a fraction of the box office for the movie, it's still unwise to give them any reason not to go.

Now that Bay is done with the film, his job should be either to keep quiet, or be a cheerleader for his work. Convince the old guard that yes, this ain't their fathers' Transformers, but that if they just give it a chance, they might see they like it after all. I don't think that would be too much to ask.

That interview was conducted last summer--September 2006 IIRC.

Sites are releasing those interviews until now due to legal arrangements with Paramount.

AbsumZer0 wrote:

KoH4711 wrote:
If you're going to be 'open and interactive' with fans of an existing property then you need to expect a portion of the people being completely unhappy with what you're doing. Going on record bitch and whine about it isn't going to win your case or even make you seem like a sensible person. It's childish. And if the portion of the people complaining is just too large to ignore, then maybe you're doing something wrong?

When I first saw OP with flames I asked Bay "Do you have any idea of the uproar this is going to cause?'

To which he replied "Yes. You win some, you loose some."

Fan backlash was expected from day 1. Big time.

What was not expected were death threats and personal insults. Certainly not over a movie.

Funkmaster Fleximus wrote:'Sooo Trypticon'....Amen brother, Amen (or Sister if it so applies)


Now, did Bay in fact state right from the start that this film was going to be an entirely new take on the franchise, or was this stance basically damage control?

This was one of his first post:

We are reinventing how the robots look, transform and move - Remember these are the most realistic Transformers you will have ever seen. They have to fit completely into the human world to make this live action film credible. I have shown the animatics and some of the hundreds of drawings - TO THE MOST RELIGIOUS OF FANS - they tell me they are "mind-blowing" and "take it to a level they never considered" - I guess that's good? Time will tell.

Believe me I respect the fans. But I just want you to give me a chance because I'm working with some really talented artists to create this vision. But it is a vision that allows for growth, change, improvement and surprises. Looking back at the history of Transformers, remember there has been tons of change and improvements over the years.

So right off the bat he used the world "re-inventing."

This thread contains the best grammar I've seen in a while.

Now, lets hit a ball to left field...

Seibertron.com won 2 of the 3 awards for best TF site last year at botcon, I believe. Seibs has been getting a lot of attention from the franchise higher ups. Tons of new members join the site to throw in there 2 cents (of which i'm glad... fresh blood is nothing but good). Our little corner of the universe is getting more attention now then when the outrage arose from the death of Prime in the animated movie. We are now in a high profile location.

For your consideration- how many new members are running PR for the flick in the guise of casual fans, a form of damage control from the inside out?

IMO, I don't believe this to be true... then again I didn't want to believe that 34 of the 43 American presidents had blood relations to each other.

nelson_michaelbay_com wrote:

Powermaster Jazz wrote:He really didn't say anything insulting there at all. All he said was that he is aware that there are fanboys complaining and he heard they might protest at his office when he's not there. You know...the truth.

And they did protest....except at the wrong place. They protested at his old offices and not the new location.

BAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Oh that's classic. Thanks for that Nelson!

Handbanana wrote:This thread contains the best grammar I've seen in a while.

Now, lets hit a ball to left field...

Seibertron.com won 2 of the 3 awards for best TF site last year at botcon, I believe. Seibs has been getting a lot of attention from the franchise higher ups. Tons of new members join the site to throw in there 2 cents (of which i'm glad... fresh blood is nothing but good). Our little corner of the universe is getting more attention now then when the outrage arose from the death of Prime in the animated movie. We are now in a high profile location.

For your consideration- how many new members are running PR for the flick in the guise of casual fans, a form of damage control from the inside out?

IMO, I don't believe this to be true... then again I didn't want to believe that 34 of the 43 American presidents had blood relations to each other.

Well, Nelson's the webmaster/admin at Michael Bay's site. Other than that, there's a part of me that says there's no way a studio would pay people to do that. Personally, I'd love to find out how you apply for that job. =p

In all seriousness, though, I think there are people becoming more aware of the movie now, look for information online, and they haven't been privy to the debates going on for months online. We're less than a month away, people are getting more excited and more active as a result. Which, like you said, is a good thing... message boards, not unlike Keith Richards, thrive on new blood. Though I wouldn't be shocked to find out some people that were being more defensive were on a studio payroll, most of them are very bottom line, and I wonder if they really think a few people posting messages would make a huge difference in the bottom line. I've not seen a thread yet where someone makes a post and a basher wipes a tear away from their eye and claims to have seen the light, complete with harps and a chorus in the background.

I like that the realy seem to apreciate the G1 Characters themselves, and I hope the film reflects that.

KoH4711 wrote:

Handbanana wrote:This thread contains the best grammar I've seen in a while.

Now, lets hit a ball to left field...

Seibertron.com won 2 of the 3 awards for best TF site last year at botcon, I believe. Seibs has been getting a lot of attention from the franchise higher ups. Tons of new members join the site to throw in there 2 cents (of which i'm glad... fresh blood is nothing but good). Our little corner of the universe is getting more attention now then when the outrage arose from the death of Prime in the animated movie. We are now in a high profile location.

For your consideration- how many new members are running PR for the flick in the guise of casual fans, a form of damage control from the inside out?

IMO, I don't believe this to be true... then again I didn't want to believe that 34 of the 43 American presidents had blood relations to each other.

Well, Nelson's the webmaster/admin at Michael Bay's site. Other than that, there's a part of me that says there's no way a studio would pay people to do that. Personally, I'd love to find out how you apply for that job. =p

In all seriousness, though, I think there are people becoming more aware of the movie now, look for information online, and they haven't been privy to the debates going on for months online. We're less than a month away, people are getting more excited and more active as a result. Which, like you said, is a good thing... message boards, not unlike Keith Richards, thrive on new blood. Though I wouldn't be shocked to find out some people that were being more defensive were on a studio payroll, most of them are very bottom line, and I wonder if they really think a few people posting messages would make a huge difference in the bottom line. I've not seen a thread yet where someone makes a post and a basher wipes a tear away from their eye and claims to have seen the light, complete with harps and a chorus in the background.

Actualy, larger corporatinons plant moles to do these type of things all the time. For situations like this, they wouldn't hire anybody though, just give existing staff(interns, and whatnot) a list of sites and tell them to have fun.

I work in advertising, and can tell you, word of mouth is an old trick.

nelson_michaelbay_com wrote:

AbsumZer0 wrote:

KoH4711 wrote:
If you're going to be 'open and interactive' with fans of an existing property then you need to expect a portion of the people being completely unhappy with what you're doing. Going on record bitch and whine about it isn't going to win your case or even make you seem like a sensible person. It's childish. And if the portion of the people complaining is just too large to ignore, then maybe you're doing something wrong?

When I first saw OP with flames I asked Bay "Do you have any idea of the uproar this is going to cause?'

To which he replied "Yes. You win some, you loose some."

Fan backlash was expected from day 1. Big time.

What was not expected were death threats and personal insults. Certainly not over a movie.

Death threats? What kind of idiot would threaten somebody's life over a different take on Transformers in a movie? See, this is the crap that makes us "fans" look like nutcases and makes people loose respect for fanbases! If I knew of someone who actually made a death threat to someone over something this stupid, it would be hard for me to hold back from punching them square in the face! And no, I don't go around punching people in the face!

As for Bay's comments, I can see where people may not like that being said, but I can live with it. It really doesn't bother me all that much.

Now... bring on the movie!

Hello there!

Thanks for the comments. I understand that there are some fans who like this movie. I just don't. And it bums me out to see it all over the place.

I think the Batman analogy is spot on- it’s just a smaller fanbase than Batman, so not everyone understands why people are so confused/upset by this treatment. The comics for Transformers, the Marvel Comics, are what made the franchise. The stories really started rough- but got better and better- and the emphasis on their characters, and their stories were fantastic. Sure Spike was in it- but he was a sidekick- he's Robin. It doesn’t make sense to make a Batman story, from the point of view of Robin.

The story I wrote was just sort of a recap of how crazy this has been. Notice I did admit that the movie "looks" cool. Of course it does, it's got a lot of talented people working on it. But looking cool isn't all I want from this movie.

I want Ratchet to be a real character. I don't want Hummer commercials. I'd like to see dialogue written for the Robots right from the get go- not in the last few months of production. I am a little bummed out by the designs, basically because they don’t emote as well as the originals, or retain the fun spirit the original designs had.

In the end I think a director like Luc Besson (5th element, Leon the Professional) would have understood how to better translate such stylized designs into a “realistic” world without sacrificing the characters. He probably would have also made it more fun.

It's obvious that the talent on this film, just didn't understand the Transformers as characters, and thus worried that the audience wouldn't either. So they really pushed the human side of the story, reducing the Transformers to gags and weapons. In the end they're treated more like toys here, than they ever were in the comics.

I understand that most of these changes were made to somehow make more money. However, that doesn’t justify the overall sloppiness of the execution thus far.

Of course, I still need to see the movie. I’m sure there will be quite a few of us seeing Transformers, while holding Die Hard tickets, if you know what I mean.

I think the flames on Prime work excellently. I think Megatron looks awesome, as does Starscream. I think the faces are perfectly suitable for an alien species. I think it's a great idea that the story is told from human's point of view.

And I will be at that theater, holding a ticket that says "TRANSFORMERS," (NOT Die Hard) waiting desperatly for those stupid commercials to give way to the preview, and the previews to give way to the movie I've been waiting for for years now.

The only downside is that I won't be paying for it, even though I'd like to. A friend of mine is going to pay me back for Pirates of the Caribbean 3.

And a lot of people are like this. Get over it.

Personally, the main problem I have with the film is the design of the robot faces. I would prefer a more 'G1' look to their heads but that's just me.

Also, the whole 'grandfather's glasses' thing seems kind of out there but hopefully the film will explain it well.

Howewever, I will say, the more trailers I see, the more I really want to see the film.

I mean, I didn't like the Beast Wars cartoon initially, partly again due to the robots' designs but the excellent storylines and characterisations soon won me over.

Plus Transformers is getting mainstream appeal, lots of my friends are very impressed with the trailers, and this can only be a good thing. At the very least, the more mainstream thing might mean we don't have to suffer crap cartoons anymore and get a good animated series like Ninja Turtles did.

As for Bay's comments, have you ever tried to please everybody? Not an easy thing to do. No wonder he reacts badly.

Plus how many incarnations of Transformers have we gotten in the last few years? We should be used to change at this stage. At least it looks cooler than the awful cartoons we've had the misfortune of getting.

I’m not telling people who like the movie to not like it, so please don’t tell me to get over not liking the movie. I just don’t like it. Maybe after seeing it I will- but it’s so different, (and in my opinion, not an improvement) that it’s going to be very hard for me to like it.

People who are sold on it, good for you. I hope you enjoy it. But not all Transfans do. And as sites gear up with more and more movie stuff, I think it’s important for those of us, who are unhappy with the product being preached, to voice our opinion, and not let it seem like we just decided to give up.

I’m not buying the toys. They just aren’t as cool as the classics line was for me.

We never got our big kickbutt Transformers movie, based on those characters, and those stories. Instead it’s being reworked from the ground up, and I think a lot of people wanted to see the characters and stories they grew up with faithfully translated to the screen.

This movie may be cool- but it is not faithful on a number of levels. It’s just different. And different can be cool, and this movie might be cool- but I didn’t want different, I wanted a movie based on the original Transformers, with those characters- not these new made up versions.

This movie needs to prove that it can stand on its own two legs. If the talent behind it felt they could do better than the source material, well, please let them try. But if it’s not actually better, just different, then it’s a wasted opportunity in my opinion.

If the upcoming movie is commercially successfull, and stirs the scene, it'll be good in the end, imho, for I hope it may bring other projects, more considerate of canon, hopefully... It won't make me like the Bay's product though... the storyline and characters seem warped to me.

nelson_michaelbay_com wrote:

AbsumZer0 wrote:Yeah, you hear George Lucas, Steven Spielberg and Alex Proyas complaining about fanboys picking apart their films all the time.

Oh, wait, no. They have class (and talent). I was thinking of Uwe Boll and Paul WS Anderson.

Lucas told fanboys to get a life.

Steven completely doesn't care for their existence. He's not even online.

Have you read Proyas' forum where he slayed Isaac Asimov's fans for criticizing i,Robot?

James Cameron told the AP that fanboys & the interent are "fan-fcuking us to death."

Bay has been the only A-list director that has interacted DIRECTLY with any fanbase period.

I stand corrected regarding Lucas. However, he was referring to the fans of the property he created, not one he took the reigns on and decided he was going to 'reinvent'. He was right; there are a whole lot of over-the-top Star Wars fans just as there are Star Trek fans who need to 'get a life' and start taking their ocd meds. Meanwhile, the fans were also right, because the acting in the prequel films was wooden, Episode 1 was especially hard to endure, and he really made it clear that his talents as a director were either rusty or lacking and he'd have been better off giving the camrea to someone else while putting more time into figuring out how to make full bluescreen look less like a cgi cartoon with human inserts.

Alex Proyas was referring to the people who were upset over I, Robot because they thought it was a genuine adaptation. I, Robot was Hard Wired. The studio thought it'd be a good idea to purchase the rights to I, Robot and throw in a few references so that they could associate it with Aasimov's work in some way, and it backfired. Proyas wasn't claiming "oh hey guys, I took your Aasimov and made it more realistic hur hur hur". He was frustrated because he was being blamed for the studio's poor decision.

James Cameron hasn't been relevant for a decade, apart from the mediocre sci-fi show he worked on. Nobody cares what he thinks at the moment. And if he thinks fans are bitching now, he ought to wait until he gets around to releasing his American bastardization of Battle Angel.

Steven Spielberg doesn't bother with fans because he doesn't need to. He's got a family, plenty of projects, and films like Jurassic Park, Schindler's List, and Munich under his belt. I thought Minority Report and War of the Worlds sucked but I'm not going to take pot-shots at him because he's proven he's a talented individual (as opposed to an ad-agent who's taken advantage of an entire nation's ADD). Even if he did interact with the fans I firmly doubt he'd behave like anywhere near as big a tosser as Bay.

Bay doesn't interact with Transformers fans, the guy barely interacts with Michael Bay fans. He throws out press releases talking about what he's doing and how much he hates the fans of the property he's directing a film of and people like you lap it up. Then he goes and does interviews and bitches about the fans of the property he's doing a film of. He should just be grateful he got the rights to do a film based on a property with a fanbase to begin with. Otherwise he'd be readying his 3rd strike and preparing to enter the same league as other over-rated "A-list directors" who've fallen from grace with the studios, like Renny Harlin.

Robert Orci interacts directly with the fans. A lot of people on this board aren't fans of his work, myself included, and have given him a lot of criticism. At this point however I'd almost prefer he were the director in spite of his lack of directorial work solely on the basis that he's shown he's willing and able to behave like a professional.

KoH4711 wrote:
If it was just that they didn't like what he was doing and he was complaining, I'd probably feel differently. But the amount of personal attacks I've seen against the man, from the day he was signed, before even a single thing about his approach came out, like I said, I can't blame him for being a little ticked off. I've seen people saying things like they'd like to meet him in a dark alley, wish he'd die in a car crash, etc... all over a movie.

And honestly, the changes don't start and end with Bay. The execs at the film studio would have to approve any changes, because scrapping the designs and starting over would almost certainly have made them go over budget. Hasbro and the company licensing each vehicle probably have at least some degree of approval in the designs, and we're not really privy to what the agreements might be. Robert Rodriguez's book, Rebel Without a Crew, is just one example of how utterly insane the Hollywood scene can be. Even this summer, think about how Avi Arad forced Sam Raimi to use Venom in Spiderman 3, despite the fact he had no real interest in the character(and frankly, that showed). And, of course, everyone involved also has the difficult task of pulling in the non-Transformers fans, the people who might just view this as a giant toy commercial. All told, I wouldn't really want to be in Michael Bay's shoes.

Yeah, I kinda wish Bay had phrased what he said better, but especially not knowing what's going on behind the scenes, I'm not sure I would have said things any differently if I'd gone through what he did. The guy may not have been my first choice to direct Transformers, but I've found his movies entertaining in the past and he handles action pretty well.

I dare say that a lot of the people who wish he'd die in a dark alley aren't even Transformers fans. Bay is an extremely divisive director among typical movie-goers, among professional critics he's almost universally reviled, and there are a lot of people in Hollywood who dislike him on a personal level. You may not know this but there are more than a few snooty film-school professors who require their students to watch Bay's films in order to learn what NOT to do when directing a film. Even among his defenders a lot of them will admit that his only real strength is in car chases and blowing **** up. There are professional critics who would swear that he epitomizes everything that's wrong with Hollwood today. After Pearl Harbor there are probably more than a few WWII vets out there who'd like to kick the **** out of him too. Comments like the ones he's making aren't going to help defend himself against his detractors, it's only going to make people more bitter the next time his name is attached to something they had interest in (and I'm 90% sure Prince of Persia is going to flop).

Also, I seriously, seriously doubt anything Bay has done is going to make anyone think of this movie as anything more than a giant toy commercial (especially if you count grown-up toys) because it's pretty blatant about it.

nelson_michaelbay_com wrote:

Funkmaster Fleximus wrote:'Sooo Trypticon'....Amen brother, Amen (or Sister if it so applies)


Now, did Bay in fact state right from the start that this film was going to be an entirely new take on the franchise, or was this stance basically damage control?

This was one of his first post:

We are reinventing how the robots look, transform and move - Remember these are the most realistic Transformers you will have ever seen. They have to fit completely into the human world to make this live action film credible. I have shown the animatics and some of the hundreds of drawings - TO THE MOST RELIGIOUS OF FANS - they tell me they are "mind-blowing" and "take it to a level they never considered" - I guess that's good? Time will tell.

Believe me I respect the fans. But I just want you to give me a chance because I'm working with some really talented artists to create this vision. But it is a vision that allows for growth, change, improvement and surprises. Looking back at the history of Transformers, remember there has been tons of change and improvements over the years.

So right off the bat he used the world "re-inventing."

Thanks for the reply Nelson!
I can respect the notion of reinventing concepts in order to keep them fresh and interesting. But is this the best starting approach to a franchise with a fanbase in the millions? Imagine if Peter Jackson stated that he was going to reinvent LOTR? True, elements in LOTR were reworked in the film (ala Arwen's prominence and the romance) but the delicate balance was struck because PJ didn't set out to 'transform' LOTR. In my opinion it doesn't look at all like this balance has be achieved in this TF film for rather obvious reasons. Of course final judgement will follow upon films release. I'd love nothing more to be proven wrong, but to me it just doesn't make a good start when the director futzes with the icons AND the storyline just so he can relate to it.

And contrary to popular opinion, George Lucas did indeed listen to his fanboys. Anyone notice how Jar-Jar was completely phased out of the storyline? Anyone notice how not a peep was mentioned about Midichlorians after TPM?

Shadowman wrote:I don't mind that Jazz dies.

*KICKS SHADOWMAN IN THE NUTS REPEATEDLY AND PAINFULLY*

Some people are still trying to avoid spoilers you damn git!