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Official ROTF Review Thread

Discuss anything and everything related to the Transformers Live Action Films franchise, which are directed by Michael Bay. Join us to discuss the movies and stuff up to date with news for the 2017 release of Transformers 5. Check out our Live Action Film section here.

Re: Official ROTF Review Thread

Postby Rock Sexton » Tue Jun 30, 2009 3:00 am

Renne wrote:Oh honey. Even I recognise that that's sarcasm.


My bad. I've seen these kinds of comments being legitimately made all over the net on movie forums. It's kind of frightening.


Seriously though, as per my previous comment, did you really, honestly, whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you god think it was going to be a sequel on a par with Empire Strikes Back?


I did. It's embarrassing I know. I thought the first TF really had something going. I kept up with all of the updates leading up to teh month before it's release. The $200+ million budget and talks of it being a much larger film. With the title being "Revenge" I guess that's also where I got the impression from that we would get something that was at least attempting to be an Empire Strikes Back film. About the only thing that came close was the cheap Star Wars rip-off of Megs and the Fallen (ala Darth Vader and the Emperor).

Don't get me wrong, the first had some weak plot moments and silly humor, but it wasn't forced fed to you by the kilo ton like in this one. I attribute all of the first one's success to Spielberg. In this one, Michael Bay remembered he was Michael Bay.
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Re: Official ROTF Review Thread

Postby Rock Sexton » Tue Jun 30, 2009 3:05 am

There was a moment in the film where the Autobots were being surrounded by the military at the army base and one of them remarks something like "Are we really gonna do this?" with guns drawn ...... probably the only scene in the movie where I felt connected and feeling the stakes raising..... I started to get jazzed up and then Bay and Co. ruin it with that government chronie spewing garbage about them having to leave and the Obama-esque nonsense about seeking diplomatic measures.
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Re: Official ROTF Review Thread

Postby Just Negare » Tue Jun 30, 2009 6:30 am

Motto: "Who ate all the pies?"
Weapon: Laser Scalpel
Well, regardless of what the fans think, or what anyone thinks, I hope Bay or whoever gets the third one takes some of the comments to heart.

I waited 21 years for a live action TF movie. Now we have two. Huzzah. But after the goodness that was the first, is it too much to ask to have a decent sequel? I didn't expect a Terminator 2 type success. But really, there's no excuse for some of the plot, pacing and editing issues that were in that movie. Frankly, I think its offensive to Bay, to us and to Transformers to just sit back and say "what the hell are you on about dood, we got ourselves a transformers movie with big shiney robots and explosions, we don't need no plot or any of those things like pacing or editting".

We do no respect to Transformers or our fandom to excuse such antics. We deserve better. Transformers deserves better. It does not make us less of a fan to demand better. We're the ones who pay good money to see this, the general public pay good money to see this. There's apparently a recession on, and I'm in full time employment now, I don't have the time or the money to see bad movies! Its perfectly in our right, and perfectly acceptable to ask for a good movie with good flow and structure. Should we really just accept the no plot, bad pacing shenanigans of the 80s cartoon series? Those of us who grew up with this cartoon are adults now, we shouldn't have to be stuck in the past and we should feel no shame or doubt our "love" for this genre by asking, even begging, for a good flick.

But I do enjoy the squabbling between fans who get their panties in a bunch when someone has a different opinion, scathing or glorifying, its always good for a chuckle.

As they say, bad publicity is still publicity.
Something memorable here.
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Re: Official ROTF Review Thread

Postby syphonn » Tue Jun 30, 2009 8:53 am

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Kibble wrote:Adding to the amusing "why" theme...if only a Prime can kill The Fallen, why did it take Prime all of 8 seconds to kill this unstoppable force of evil? Couldn't say Bumblebee, who effortlessly took out Rampage and Ravage at the same time or tossed the Jar Jar twins (who were able to go toe to toe with Devastator) aside like rag dolls, have fought The Fallen for like 16 or 24 seconds and come out victorious? Even if powered up Prime is the biggest badass in all the universe, you would think if The Fallen were anywhere near force they were trying to build him up as, he would at least put up a bit of a fight...


You know I keep asking the same question, why is it that only a Prime can kill The Fallen? Anyone could have done what Prime did. And he was the most powerful of the seven? that doesn't say very much for the rest. The fallen is such a disappointment, they made him out to be this malevolent nefarious force that even Megatron is subservient to him, yet he cowers from, and dies with little or no effort by exerted by Optimus
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Re: Official ROTF Review Thread

Postby Counterpunch » Tue Jun 30, 2009 9:15 am

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Yea...Prime was able to stand up to The Fallen because he was powered by the Matrix and all of the power passed from the AllSpark to Sam to him.
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Re: Official ROTF Review Thread

Postby Steamed_Ham » Tue Jun 30, 2009 10:11 am

Rock Sexton wrote:
Renne wrote:I attribute all of the first one's success to Spielberg. In this one, Michael Bay remembered he was Michael Bay.


What did you find particularly Spielbergian in the first movie? If anything I thought this movie had more of his touch as the early scene where the appliances came to life reminded me of Gremlins, another film Spielberg produced but did not direct (and incidentally one of my favourites). At the end of the day robot urine in no more Spielbergish than robot testicles.
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Re: Official ROTF Review Thread

Postby Rock Sexton » Tue Jun 30, 2009 10:46 am

Steamed_Ham wrote:What did you find particularly Spielbergian in the first movie? If anything I thought this movie had more of his touch as the early scene where the appliances came to life reminded me of Gremlins, another film Spielberg produced but did not direct (and incidentally one of my favourites). At the end of the day robot urine in no more Spielbergish than robot testicles.



Those tiny appliances were not something Spieldberg would have done. Again, one of them had a phallus for a weapon. Those were simply Michael Bay trying to have excess.

Spielberg movies have souls. They're fun, cohesive, but not over the top complex. You never find the editing and pacing issues this one had. He also knows how to develop his characters. He lets you into their lives. Bay just goes, ok here they are you just better take my word for it as to why they are here in the first place.

The robot urine in the first one was definitely Bay's doing, but notice those kinds of jokes were not done in excess unlike in this one. That is how you can tell Spielberg went on sabbatical.

A Spielberg moment: In the first Transformers when Rachet suggests "The boys pheromone levels suggests he wants to mate with the girl". Now that is funny.

A Bay moment: The scene where they're talking about standing under the enemy's scrotum as you see two wrecking ball testicles under Devastator.
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Re: Official ROTF Review Thread

Postby oldskooltf » Tue Jun 30, 2009 1:29 pm

Weapon: Missile Launcher
Am I the only one here who thinks that the majority have their many flaws too... especially sci-fi and/or super hero type movies?

No offense to Star Wars fans here (since I saw a comparison to Empire Strikes Back), but the acting by some of the key characters (Anakin & Luke) were horrible. Many characters had little characterization, but most were minor characters so no one really cares. I'm not trying to dis on the franchise, but its movies are not flawless -- yet still I enjoyed watching them.

And just about every freaking action movie I've ever seen has lots of un-answered questions or parts of the plot that you have to watch a 2nd (or 3rd) time to fully understand -- yet I still enjoy them.

By seeing all of the nit-picking in this thread towards RotF, I have to wonder what movies people here feel are not flawed and have tons of characterization and yet still lots of action without unanswered questions.

Don't get me wrong... it's perfectly fine to point out weaknesses of a movie. However, I really feel that people here have much higher standards for this movie than other movies -- which, I guess is to be expected by fanboys. There's nothing wrong with being a fanboy. Heck, I'm a TF fanboy and have been since a kid in the 80s.

I guess where we'll just have to agree to disagree is that I did not feel the unanswered questions or lack of characterization for the minor characters or some choices of humor took away from enjoying the movie. For others... it did.

That's fine. Everyone can feel however they want -- but please don't make it seem like this movie is lower-than-par compared to the average action movie. It's not.

I'll admit Revenge of the Fallen has its flaws and is certainly not perfect. I'll admit that I wanted a few things done a little better. However, I feel that way towards almost every action movie I've ever watched, and yet it still doesn't prevent me from enjoying (most) of those movies.

I'm willing to admit things and yet keep things in perspective. Are others here? (that's directed towards both those who feel this is an A+ and those who feel it's an F).
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Re: Official ROTF Review Thread

Postby Rodimus Prime » Tue Jun 30, 2009 1:51 pm

Motto: "Individual freedom above all else."
I completely agree. There is no such thing as a perfect movie. Especially in the sci-fi genre, where a certain suspension of disbelief is required. However, RotF was an action movie like I haven't seen in a long time, probably since Bad Boys 2 or The Rock. (Yeah, both Bay flicks. Bay=action) The story of RotF ind retrospect was mediocre at best. The concept was good, but the writers failed miserably in developing it. It was just thrown together, and Bay did his best to try to cover up the glaring plotholes with as much flash and boom as possible. Whether that's his fault or not, I'm not sure. He is the director, and is listed as an executive producer, so he should have some final say, but I imagine he can be overruled by Spielberg.

Bottom line, I went to see it 4 times in 1 week because of the top notch action, galore of TF asskicking, and the complete redemption of Bumblebee from a waste of screen time in the cartoon to a badass fighting machine in the 2 movies. Also, great improvement on Optimus Prime. He's always been a bit soft in my book, and I was so happy to see him step up and put a beating on the Cons. I don't agree at all about him losing his compassion. He did what he had to do to protect Sam. Overall, great action trumps mediocre story in a summer popcorn flick, so this was a very good movie.
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Re: Official ROTF Review Thread

Postby Rock Sexton » Tue Jun 30, 2009 1:59 pm

Oldskooltf,

We're not just talking about a few flaws. We're talking about a 2.5 hour movie riddled with problems. I LOVED the first one, even after I thought Bay would butcher it with his own "Bayformers" crap. But this movie expands on elements the first one took criticism for. Yet it just so happens to be shoved to the side because of the CGI and fight scenes.

Why do you have to shut your brain off in order to enjoy a summer action flick? Where is that written into the by-laws of watching film? A few unanswered questions is fine, but there are so many "Why?" moments it would take me hours to jot them all down. I pointed this out before, but it's just lazy to have a movie infested with deus ex macchina style explanations for why things are happening. We can't take EVERYTHING at face value....... it starts to get insulting after a while.

Unless of course all you care about is boobs, hot chicks, crude jokes, and some fighting robots for your movie. Which this movie obviously has plenty of and very little as far as a coherent story. Since when has that ever been a recipe for a quality flick? My 13 year old cousin could put that kind of story together.

This movie was schizophrenic. It was marketed at children, obviously with robots and the story lacking any depth ala cartoons ........and yet marketed at young, hormonally and obnoxiously charged males all at the same time. It was the quinnessential "Here are robots. They fight." Is it bad to want more than that? How hard would that have been? They could've cut the number of transformers back, 3/4th's of the schtick provided by annoyances like Leo and the Twins, and have been able to develop a relationship with the main characters.
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Re: Official ROTF Review Thread

Postby Rock Sexton » Tue Jun 30, 2009 2:05 pm

Rodimus Prime wrote:I completely agree. There is no such thing as a perfect movie. Especially in the sci-fi genre, where a certain suspension of disbelief is required. However, RotF was an action movie like I haven't seen in a long time, probably since Bad Boys 2 or The Rock. (Yeah, both Bay flicks. Bay=action) The story of RotF ind retrospect was mediocre at best. The concept was good, but the writers failed miserably in developing it. It was just thrown together, and Bay did his best to try to cover up the glaring plotholes with as much flash and boom as possible. Whether that's his fault or not, I'm not sure. He is the director, and is listed as an executive producer, so he should have some final say, but I imagine he can be overruled by Spielberg.


Spielberg showed ZERO influence on this film. The proof is in the pudding. Spielberg doesn't resort to juvenile testicle jokes and dog humping. Nobody was asking for perfection. We were asking for more attention to the story then to wasting our time with a barrage of obnoxious humor and empty characters who pop in and out of the movie without any consistency.

Bottom line, I went to see it 4 times in 1 week because of the top notch action, galore of TF asskicking, and the complete redemption of Bumblebee from a waste of screen time in the cartoon to a badass fighting machine in the 2 movies. Also, great improvement on Optimus Prime. He's always been a bit soft in my book, and I was so happy to see him step up and put a beating on the Cons. I don't agree at all about him losing his compassion. He did what he had to do to protect Sam. Overall, great action trumps mediocre story in a summer popcorn flick, so this was a very good movie.


It's quite clear, the action was all you cared about. So much so that it masks all of the movie's obvious incessant flaws. That is not the mark of a very good movie.
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Re: Official ROTF Review Thread

Postby Rodimus Prime » Tue Jun 30, 2009 2:16 pm

Motto: "Individual freedom above all else."
Rock Sexton wrote:
Spielberg showed ZERO influence on this film.


Yes, unfortunately, that's true.

It's quite clear, the action was all you cared about.


Also true. After the first film, I did not expect too much story wise, and was not disappointed. But the action was unbelievable. I came away from that movie upbeat, happy, and feeling good all 4 times. I had FUN. I like G1 more than any other continuity, but I don't nitpick the movie to death. It had major flaws, yes. Some people cannot look past that. I can. And that made me able to enjoy 2 1/2 hours of a rollercoaster ride.

In the end, all of the people who saw it and can't get over the mistakes in the movie, you are depriving yourselves of 2 1/2 hours and whatever money your ticket cost. Did you expect an Oscar worthy movie going in? IT'S MICHAEL BAY.

You say it's not a mark of a very good movie, and you're entitled to your opinion. My opinion is, for what it was advertised as and what its predecessor was, it definitely is a good movie. It surpassed the first film in action and humor, and paralleled it in story. I enjoyed it 4 times over, and though the story had room to grow as well as the characters, as a Transformers fan, I do not consider this a failure.
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Re: Cant belive the reviews? Even from the fans??

Postby spacebridge » Tue Jun 30, 2009 2:25 pm

Counterpunch wrote:
Phenotype wrote:Sorry buck-o, that's not how it works. This is a public forum and I have just as much right to post here as you.


Don't bait with the 'buck-o' stuff. The line is being pushed.

wingdarkness wrote:I think I understand why you guys love it…

Explosions
Megan Fox

Am I missing anything?


Samething here, but you're establishing a pattern of backhanded insulting speech.

Issues may be addressed. Any more personal attacking/baiting and I'm just dropping infractions into your account. EDIT: I mean any and everyone, not just as a result of these issues above.



LOL @ hall monitor ego trip. Is it possible to just converse with people without having some message board deity hovering over you every two seconds trying to "threaten" you with his omnipotent presence? I mean seriously, you're threatening people for referring to people as "Buck O"? This is pushing the envelope in terms of moderator abuse of privilege and quite frankly it's diminishing the perceived value of this board. I think you overestimate the sensitivity of the average adult, which no doubt most of the people on this board are. Not trying to be insulting, just making an honest observation which I'm sure some others no doubt silently share.

When I joined this placed, perhaps I overestimated the level of permissible free speech. Is there possibly a PG13 to R rated forum on this site, where people can just talk, joke around, and exchange Transformer banter back and forth without fear of a "Feelings Protectobot" interrupting their conversation?
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Re: Official ROTF Review Thread

Postby Cyclotron » Tue Jun 30, 2009 2:30 pm

I'd like to coin a new phrase: Michael Baywatch: When beautiful people run through explosions in slow motion.

Sorry for the length of this. Just had to vent. I managed to add things I did like at the end.

The Bad:

I watched Transformers: ROTF because I felt obligated. The G1 series informed so much of my childhood, I had to go. Granted, the 1980s cartoon movie, if watched at a distance, is pretty cheesy. My emotional connection to my childhood is what makes it my favorite movie.
The high point of the movie for me was the trailer for Harry Potter.

Just like the first one, the changes in Transformers are not what bothered me. At first, I was upset that they actually made Bumblebee cooler by turning him into a Camaro. But now, I've come to expect some changes.
What bothered me was poor scriptwriting, sloppy scifi, continuity problems, lack of plot, lack of character...
Basically, if it wasn't a Transformers movie, I wouldn't have watched it. Or cared enough to post about it.

A lot of people are saying to ignore the plot holes and just enjoy the fun ride. But Iron Man and Dark Knight showed us that you can have both: A whirlwind action-adventure thrill ride that has great characters and story.
Saying that “It's just giant robots fighting, don't expect much” insults Transformers.
Again, the cartoons I grew up with weren't Shakespeare. But they had characters and stories.
I still think this movie, and the last one, are monster movies. Giant aliens with no discernible personality are trying to destroy the world. It ignores the fact that the best thing about the toys when I was a kid was that there were personalities. Example: G1 Swindle. Toy was decent but it was the personality that was great. Mirage. Wheeljack. I could go on and on.
In monster movies, a person gets about 3 lines of dialogue and is killed. They don't have a character, they have one character trait.

When Megatron called to Starscream for help at the end of the movie, Starscream should have looked around to make sure no other Decepticons were looking, then said “I'll tell the others you fought bravely.” Then killed Megatron. That one simple action would have changed a lot of my opinion about the movie.

This should have been a kids' movie.
A Bot firing a crotch-mounted cannon; constant testicle jokes; dogs humping; a bunch of cursing; an impossible to ignore drug scene; John Turturro's thong (OK, that part was kind of funny, but still). The ratings board must have been out for popcorn during some of this.
I would be mortified to have my nephews here. My daughter is 2 and loves Optimus Prime. (She calls him Op-pa!) I think, when she's older, I'll have her watch G1 but not the new movies. Kind of like how I'll have her watch Star Wars Eps 4-6, not Eps 1-3.

It's kind of bad when Turturro had to actually ask Jetfire what the plot is.
Plot derives conflict: Character A wants to do something, but Character B wants to stop that. To a degree, there was some of that. But what we got was “There's some big thing we have to destroy before it blows up the sun.” When Hitchcock was asked to define a MacGuffin, he said the audience doesn't care what it is, as long as it drives the story.
Iron Man had a MacGuffin in it, too, the rings that created his power-core-heart-thingy. And the first Batman had the microwave emitter. Dark Knight didn't have a MacGuffin, and that's why it was brilliant.
There was comic relief, but no comedy.
The difference is that comedy flows naturally out of the story or characters. Comic relief is injected, forced into a movie. A robot calling a human a “pussy,” for instance. Jetfire's routine “My father was a wheel....” was hilarious. But I'm not sure it should have been in the movie. A lot of the gags, like a robot humping a girl's leg, should have been in the Scary Movie franchise instead.

About the Jar Jar Bots. Much has been made to say they were racist black stereotypes. I didn't get that. I hated them, yes. But I thought they were rednecks. I didn't see the correlation.

The Good:
I think I'm being overly critical, so I'll talk about what I liked.
I think Sam and Mikaela are very charismatic. They're not necessary to the movie. But they're very likable.
I enjoyed Sam's parents (minus the drug scene.) I liked them in the first one, too.

Any fight scene with Prime was amazing. If he wasn't there, it was kind of blah. But whether it was slo-mo or what, you could really see what the characters were doing. Prime had some amazing moves. It was a lot of fun to watch those fights. The 3-on-1 where Prime died; his return to take on Megatron and the Fallen; even Jetfire vs. Scorponok; Bumblebee vs. Rampage and Ravage.
And Bumblebee is making up for the 80s. He stopped getting his butt kicked and started kicking butt. Good job!
There was one point where Ironhide was hurting pretty badly. No incarnation of Ironhide has ever been my favorite, but I was actually sitting there hoping he wouldn't die.
Megatron and Starscream playing the roles that we're used to seeing. Very good dialogue between them.
Soundwave and Frank Welker's voice. Soundwave was always one of my favorites. I was curious to see how they were going to use him. The satellite was an interesting idea.
Ravage. Another one of my favorites. Done very well, I think.

Again, sorry about the length.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMr5uB0W ... eknowledge
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Re: Official ROTF Review Thread

Postby Rock Sexton » Tue Jun 30, 2009 2:31 pm

Rodimus Prime wrote:Yes, unfortunately, that's true.


Well at least we can agree on that.

Also true. After the first film, I did not expect too much story wise, and was not disappointed. But the action was unbelievable. I came away from that movie upbeat, happy, and feeling good all 4 times. I had FUN. I like G1 more than any other continuity, but I don't nitpick the movie to death. It had major flaws, yes. Some people cannot look past that. I can. And that made me able to enjoy 2 1/2 hours of a rollercoaster ride.

In the end, all of the people who saw it and can't get over the mistakes in the movie, you are depriving yourselves of 2 1/2 hours and whatever money your ticket cost. Did you expect an Oscar worthy movie going in? IT'S MICHAEL BAY.

You say it's not a mark of a very good movie, and you're entitled to your opinion. My opinion is, for what it was advertised as and what its predecessor was, it definitely is a good movie. It surpassed the first film in action and humor, and paralleled it in story. I enjoyed it 4 times over, and though the story had room to grow as well as the characters, as a Transformers fan, I do not consider this a failure.


I respect yours.

I never once expected an Oscar winning performance. But I also didn't expect a movie as soul-less as this one. I was hoping for something somewhere in the middle. I felt as if Spielberg's vision and Bay's knack for big budget summer blow'em up was a good recipe. Unfortunately Stevie took a step back and Michael went wild like a dog loose in the house while his master is away........or the class clown after snorting some blow in the bathroom during lunch.

The Transformers lore has a lot more depth to it than Bay is giving it credit for. I guess I'm just at that stage in life where some boobs, explosions, crude jokes, and blurry robots just don't leaving me drooling my seat.
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Re: Official ROTF Review Thread

Postby Rodimus Prime » Tue Jun 30, 2009 2:41 pm

Motto: "Individual freedom above all else."
Rock Sexton wrote: Unfortunately Stevie took a step back and Michael went wild like a dog loose in the house while his master is away........or the class clown after snorting some blow in the bathroom during lunch.


Knowing Bay, it's probably the latter...

The Transformers lore has a lot more depth to it than Bay is giving it credit for. I guess I'm just at that stage in life where some boobs, explosions, crude jokes, and blurry robots just don't leaving me drooling my seat.


Yes, Transformers is much more than what we saw in both films combined. But all the things you mentioned, are usually part of a summer blockbuster, which is what this film was designed as. It was promoted as, and unfortunately written as. The problem here that i saw is that Bay wasn't probably the first person asked to do this. But others probably passed on it not believing in its marketability. Yeah, sounds like a weak reason, but remember: #1 thing that drives Hollywood is money. And as much as I love them, Transformers couldn't have worked as an art house flick or an Oscar season release. I know movies are considered for the Oscars all year, but most of them get released towards the end of the year. This movie was aimed at children and it had to be released during summer. And to make money, it had to compete with Wolverine, Star Trek, and a few others so effects and action had to be ratcheted up (no pun intended) and common adult sense toned down. I am sorry to see it turn out like this as well, but I put aside my grief, and turned into a near-mindless zombie, and thus enjoyed the movie.
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Re: Official ROTF Review Thread

Postby oldskooltf » Tue Jun 30, 2009 3:22 pm

Weapon: Missile Launcher
I guess I just didn't see as many unanswered questions as everyone else.

The only ones I have are

(1) How were there 2 allspark pieces?
(2) What happened to Bumblebees voice?
(3) Where was the Fallen during the time when Megatron was frozen on earth? Was he just waiting for the right moment? (like for when the Matrix would be found... which seems to be the answer to my question)


The only semi-major annoyances I had were:

(1) I didn't care for some of the sexual humor.
(2) I thought the ending was not as good as the 1st movie's ending.
(3) Devastator seemed to not be as much of a factor as I thought he would.
(4) It was unclear how clones or transformers who look identical could happen -- like the multiple constructicons. (Having said that, they're were tons of Starscream/Skywarp/Thundercracker jets in Season 1 of the G1 cartoon and it didn't seem to bother too many people despite it not being explained.)
(5) I was hoping for a little more characterization for Sideswipe -- but as it was seen... he was really just a minor character in the movie... and minor characters usually don't get much characterization in action movies.


That's it. I don't have a gi-normous list like others (apparently) do.

Guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.


EDIT/ADDITION: So... in my opinion... I did NOT have to turn off my mind to enjoy this movie. Could the movie be better? Yes... I'll admit that.
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Re: Official ROTF Review Thread

Postby Predaprince » Tue Jun 30, 2009 3:46 pm

Motto: ""Destruction is the fate of all sentient beings.""
Weapon: Sonic Rifle
oldskooltf wrote:(4) It was unclear how clones or transformers who look identical could happen -- like the multiple constructicons. (Having said that, they're were tons of Starscream/Skywarp/Thundercracker jets in Season 1 of the G1 cartoon and it didn't seem to bother too many people despite it not being explained.)


That is true, but with good justification in G1. The animation for the G1 cartoon was done by different animation studios, some of which were located in Japan, where the animators were just told what to draw and had no actual information of the show or its characters. Therefore, it is very easy to accidentally color a robot the wrong way.

This is a movie that was given plenty of time to be worked on and edited and Bay didn't give a cr@p to edit it in the least.
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Re: Official ROTF Review Thread

Postby Rock Sexton » Tue Jun 30, 2009 3:47 pm

.............. before this movie was released I thought this movie had a fantastic shot at being one of the highest grossing films of all time. It cleared $200 million in it's first week alone .....another $14 million on a friggin' Monday. And yet after having seen it, I kind of cringe at the idea that this is what drives a movie to those kinds of box office numbers. A couple of weeks ago, if you would've told me it was steam rolling the way it was I would've smiled.

What's funny is the CGI and the fact that it's Transformers is driving this whole thing. It's not even Michael Bay. Any arrogant shmuck can put together a string of massive explosions, hot chicks, gratuitous sexual humor, and fights (let's be honest the fights are not complex) ........ I'm going to go out on a limb and say that this movie says a lot about society right now. This movie is the furthest thing from "serious" as it can get. And with everyone up to their ear lobes in "economic crisis" they don't mind sitting down in a theater and just shutting it all down, except for their senses.
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Re: Official ROTF Review Thread

Postby Steamed_Ham » Tue Jun 30, 2009 3:47 pm

Rock Sexton wrote:Spielberg movies have souls. They're fun, cohesive, but not over the top complex. You never find the editing and pacing issues this one had. He also knows how to develop his characters. He lets you into their lives. Bay just goes, ok here they are you just better take my word for it as to why they are here in the first place.


The first one was kind of the same though wasn't it? I mean, OK, the robot characters were better established for viewer who had never heard of TF before, but then it kind of had to appeal to a broad cross-section. Nonetheless, I don't think the first was a well paced film, and was prone to frantic excess too. For one thing the Autobots were turned into comic relief way too soon, pretty much straight after they've been discovered they have to hide outside the house (OK, that admittedly is an obvious E.T. Spielberg touch, but not an apt one). It turns them into comic relief before they've been established as serious characters! And don't even get me started on the Indian phone operator!

Rock Sexton wrote:A Spielberg moment: In the first Transformers when Rachet suggests "The boys pheromone levels suggests he wants to mate with the girl". Now that is funny.

A Bay moment: The scene where they're talking about standing under the enemy's scrotum as you see two wrecking ball testicles under Devastator.


Well I can't remember a Spielberg moment like that in any of his actual films, and to be honest I find both of those moments equally funny, which is not at all. But I understand your point.
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Re: Official ROTF Review Thread

Postby Rock Sexton » Tue Jun 30, 2009 3:49 pm

Predaprince wrote:This is a movie that was given plenty of time to be worked on and edited and Bay didn't give a cr@p to edit it in the least.


He really doesn't care. He's just that arrogant. Do a little reading on Michael Bay and it becomes clear he's completely insulated from the world around him.

He simply road the coat tails of the inevitable success the first one set him up for with this one. Just throwing another $100 million at the budget and 20 or so more Transformers isn't exactly the work of a genius.
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Re: Official ROTF Review Thread

Postby Steamed_Ham » Tue Jun 30, 2009 3:55 pm

Predaprince wrote:
oldskooltf wrote:(4) It was unclear how clones or transformers who look identical could happen -- like the multiple constructicons. (Having said that, they're were tons of Starscream/Skywarp/Thundercracker jets in Season 1 of the G1 cartoon and it didn't seem to bother too many people despite it not being explained.)


That is true, but with good justification in G1. The animation for the G1 cartoon was done by different animation studios, some of which were located in Japan, where the animators were just told what to draw and had no actual information of the show or its characters. Therefore, it is very easy to accidentally color a robot the wrong way.

This is a movie that was given plenty of time to be worked on and edited and Bay didn't give a cr@p to edit it in the least.


Yeah, I have to agree, even though I liked the movie. We should hold a big blockbuster movie, which charges admission, to higher standards than those we hold/held a glorified toy commercial to.
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Re: Official ROTF Review Thread

Postby Rock Sexton » Tue Jun 30, 2009 4:01 pm

Steamed_Ham wrote:The first one was kind of the same though wasn't it? I mean, OK, the robot characters were better established for viewer who had never heard of TF before, but then it kind of had to appeal to a broad cross-section. Nonetheless, I don't think the first was a well paced film, and was prone to frantic excess too. For one thing the Autobots were turned into comic relief way too soon, pretty much straight after they've been discovered they have to hide outside the house (OK, that admittedly is an obvious E.T. Spielberg touch, but not an apt one). It turns them into comic relief before they've been established as serious characters! And don't even get me started on the Indian phone operator!


..........but the telephone operator was sheik humor. Who in this country hasn't had a run in with an outsourced telephone operator from India? You were absolutely right about the Spielberg touch in regards to them hiding around the house. Although I've had a few moments watching it thinking to myself "there's absolutely no way"....but in the end the thought of them trying is what is funny and allows you to pay less attention to the plausibility.

I admit the first one has some issues, but Spielberg helped Bay manage to capture that moment where they endear the characters to you. Look at the relationship development between Sam and Bumblebee. And then the roll call when Sam gets to met Optimus and the rest of the gang. You get brought into Sam's home and to witness the quirky relationship they have together - like the car shopping. The movie gets serious when it has to get serious, but knows when to relax for a minute and have some playful banter.....notice I did not say gratuitous crude jokes. In ROTF, too many characters were trying to be the class clown and hit that home run crude joke.

Well I can't remember a Spielberg moment like that in any of his actual films, and to be honest I find both of those moments equally funny, which is not at all. But I understand your point.


I think you need to re-watch Spielberg films..... but at least you understand the point I was trying to make about the differences in the jokes. One is creative and witty. The other is crude. It's like Johnny Carson vs. Jack Black.
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Re: Official ROTF Review Thread

Postby Evolution Prime » Tue Jun 30, 2009 4:42 pm

Motto: "Your end shall justify my means."
Weapon: High-Energy Laser Rifle
Like I've stated before, I believe some people came into this movie thinking that this was going to be some grand epic Transformers masterpiece they have been looking for and expecting since the live action film was announce. All I've heard since the day Bay was announced he would be directing it was a bunch of bitching and moaning on how he would ruin it. "Oh he ruined what they look like. Optimus Prime doesn't have flames on his truck!" "Oh my god! He made Starscream into a gorilla looking insect!" "Michal Bay ruined my childhood!"

What is so hard to accept? Yeah there are plot holes and some continuity errors, but that stuff has been around from the beginning. G1 is riddled with them. Pretty much what everyone has complained about about the movie, except for the over use of sexual charged humor, pretty much was around since G1. Why do I use G1? Because that is what most everyone references and already compares the movie franchise to. Plus its only supposed to be based loosely off of G1.

What I fail to comprehend is why is it such of importance now, but not with G1. Don't get my wrong, I'm a pretty hardcore G1 fan and would probably put G14LIFE on my license plate if most people would get it. All of a sudden now you have to hold it to such a high standard that its bound to never reach you expectations? Transformers have been about the fun and entertainment. I think if you didn't find it fun and entertaining from a Transformer level, then I'm not sure what would. From a strictly movie level, yes this wasn't the greatest movie of all time and isn't going to win any Oscars.

I agree that the story could have been done better to fill continuity error and plot hole and the other things people have commented on. What the difference between them and me is that I wasn't going to let those type of things ruin it for me. There were things I didn't like and have stated within this thread, but not to the point where it was going to ruin the movie for me. Clearly, those things have for others. That or either you were determined not to like the film before going to see it and you picked it apart to feel justified about it. I just think you are missing out on a great action film. Maybe TF3 will be the epic grand masterpiece that you have been looking forward to since 1986.
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Re: Official ROTF Review Thread

Postby Evolution Prime » Tue Jun 30, 2009 4:55 pm

Motto: "Your end shall justify my means."
Weapon: High-Energy Laser Rifle
Let me also put it this way. If you want three things in a product, you can typically only get two without sacrificing with the other. Here are the three things from this move.

1. More Transformers
2. Indepth stoyline and Plot
3. Lots of action.

You want more Transformers and a storyline, then the action is going to get sacrificed.
You want indepth storyline and lots of action, then more Transformers is going to get the axe.
You want lots of action and more Transformers, then an indepth storyline is getting the boot.

This movie went the way of #1 and #3. You can't have it all.
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