The Energon Pub

Quote from here:

http://hddvd.highdefdigest.com/1110/transformers.html


When audio specs for 'Transformers' were announced, there was a collective sigh of disappointment from early adopters when we learned that there would be no high-res audio tracks included on this disc. Given that this is such a flagship title for the studio, the decision was quite the head-scratcher.

Indeed, I had the opportunity to attend a special 'Transformers' media event with Paramount late last week, and the question was asked almost immediately -- why no Dolby TrueHD or uncompressed PCM? The studio's answer was that due to space limitations on the disc, the decision was made to limit the audio to Dolby Digital-Plus 5.1 Surround only (here at 1.5mbps). Unfortunately, this confirms the long-held theory that the 30Gb capacity of an HD-30 dual-layer HD DVD disc has forced studios to choose between offering a robust supplements package (as they've done here) and the very best in audio quality.

Picture and audio quality are paramount (excuse the pun) for the High Def format - the interactive features are nice to have extras. When people have spent £1000 on a plasma screen, £500 on a surround system - not to mention the high def player and DVD itself - the studio compromising on either of these is unforgivable.

What was it Bay said about being blown away by HD-DVD - about it being the best format. Me thinks there is more to his about turn than meets the eye (LOL - did you see what I did there - did ya!)

Even a video purist will argue that if you choose to do uncompressed audio, then the film is still not perfect until you have uncompressed video- both of which can not be stored on blu ray or hd-dvd because of the sheer size. In 5-10 years we will see another video format. Its never-ending.

Xgamer wrote:Even a video purist will argue that if you choose to do uncompressed audio, then the film is still not perfect until you have uncompressed video- both of which can not be stored on blu ray or hd-dvd because of the sheer size. In 5-10 years we will see another video format. Its never-ending.

That will always be the case - increased resolution and better/no compression are innevitable as storage and bitrates get larger - however.........

Paramounts decision was supposed to be to go with the best current format - and they are already making excuses as to why they cant use the full potential of the next gen format The cherry on the cake is that their excuse hinges on one of the primary things that BD has over HD-DVD - capacity.

Moonhawk wrote:

Xgamer wrote:Even a video purist will argue that if you choose to do uncompressed audio, then the film is still not perfect until you have uncompressed video- both of which can not be stored on blu ray or hd-dvd because of the sheer size. In 5-10 years we will see another video format. Its never-ending.

That will always be the case - increased resolution and better/no compression are innevitable as storage and bitrates get larger - however.........

Paramounts decision was supposed to be to go with the best current format - and they are already making excuses as to why they cant use the full potential of the next gen format The cherry on the cake is that their excuse hinges on one of the primary things that BD has over HD-DVD - capacity.

I can watch both blu ray and hd-dvd at home and I have seen bad copies of films in both formats. Check out Stargate on BluRay.... just horrible. Storage capacity does contribute to the formula of a good hd version of a film, but is not the only thing needed. Film companies tend to make excuses no matter how many resources they have available. Films in AVC compression take a great deal of space regardless on BluRay or HD-DVD format. Ive noticed the clarity for the most part on Blu Ray to be outstanding, but the colors in HD-DVD seem more vibrant- I have yet to see one movie in both formats where I say one is amazingly better than the other.

BFD. The differences between the two formats is so minute, it isn't even audible to the human ear.

I could care less. I can't afford an HD player and new Tv, so I'll settle. Wouldn't matter to me anyway.

Sportimus Prime wrote:BFD. The differences between the two formats is so minute, it isn't even audible to the human ear.

QFT.

I think blu ray and hd dvd is to get people to pay more. Atleast the expensive blu ray and hd dvd players have regular dvd compatibility. Besides I'm not in a hurry in buying one. My regular dvd player still works fine. Besides I buy dvds more of rare cartoon tv shows ,and other old tv shows which haven't been transmited on television for years than I buy movie dvds. I usually record movies or current shows that air on television.






As Autobot032 says:
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Ok perhaps the difference in audio isnt that great - although I beg to disagree that you cant tell the difference on a good setup (like mine ). However the point is how long will it be before they start compromising on picture quality too (i.e. higher compression rate)- in order to squeeze more gimmicky extras on the disk - this is highlighted by this line in the above quote:

Unfortunately, this confirms the long-held theory that the 30Gb capacity of an HD-30 dual-layer HD DVD disc has forced studios to choose between offering a robust supplements package (as they've done here) and the very best in audio quality.

This could have ramifications for all movies put out by paramount - not just Transformers.

I just bought the movie on VHS. It rocks, I dont know why any one is bitching about anything.

Robinson wrote:I just bought the movie on VHS. It rocks, I dont know why any one is bitching about anything.

I dont want this turning into a flame war - nobody is bitching about the movie - I went to see it 3 times and agree it is awesome

Its just the irony in the fact that one the the first films that they have released after being paid to.... errr ahem, cough ..... after going excusively to HD-DVD has had to compromise (no matter how little) on quality - because of the limited capacity of the HD-DVD disk.

Robinson wrote:I just bought the movie on VHS. It rocks, I dont know why any one is bitching about anything.

It's on VHS?? O_o...seriously?

oh no the audio's not HD!

who gives a frak?

How many people are even stupid to spend so much on the HD-DVD version anyway? Just get the dvd version for half the amount.

Autobot032 wrote:

Robinson wrote:I just bought the movie on VHS. It rocks, I dont know why any one is bitching about anything.

It's on VHS?? O_o...seriously?

Hell if I know, I was just making that as a sarcastic statement because in the end does it really matter. I can record myself taking a dump and it will sound good on a 1500 dollar audio/video setup. It'll look damn good too in hi-def.

No many HD fans on here then eh

I bet people said similar things when 8 track tapes went the way of the dodo...

Moonhawk wrote:No many HD fans on here then eh

I bet people said similar things when 8 track tapes went the way of the dodo...

I really dont care, to me its about the movie, not whether or not I can count the blades of grass onscreen.

You forgot to put the rest of the review. You know the part where the sound was given a 5 out of 5 star review. Here I will help.

That said, it is hard to imagine any film taking a Dolby Digital-Plus 5.1 Surround track to its zenith better than 'Transformers.' This is one highly-aggressive experience. Discrete effects are constant and pounding, but the lack of subtlety here is exactly what fans want. Directionality, imaging, accuracy of localized effects, and the sheer depth of the soundfield are all fantastic stuff. Even the front soundstage is a stunner -- stereo effects are quite pronounced, and when the sounds ping-pong (as they do just about any time a robot transforms), it's just as cool as the first time you heard that lightsaber effect in 'Star Wars.' If I had had this disc when I was a twelve year-old kid, I don't I would have stopped playing it for months.

Oh wait there is also this..

The realism and texture to every sound -- from the effects to the score to the dialogue -- is pitch perfect. Volume issues are also, thankfully, not a problem -- I was truly shocked that I didn't have to reach for my remote once, as dialogue is leveled nicely throughout.

And the true review is one that has positive and negative views. Like this part

Note that although I'm giving this audio mix five stars, that doesn't mean I agree with Paramount's decision to forgo high-res audio on this title. Without a TrueHD or PCM mix to compare this one to, there's no way of telling how much better such a track might have been, but based on the upgrade I've seen with other titles, I'm guessing a high-res mix could well have trounced this one. That's not to take anything away from this truly exceptional mix, but this is one case where I think you truly can improve upon perfection.

Thanks for your time.

Yeh I especially like his closing remark

I'm guessing a high-res mix could well have trounced this one. That's not to take anything away from this truly exceptional mix, but this is one case where I think you truly can improve upon perfection.

Thanks for your time also.....

Moonhawk wrote:Yeh I especially like his closing remark

I'm guessing a high-res mix could well have trounced this one. That's not to take anything away from this truly exceptional mix, but this is one case where I think you truly can improve upon perfection.

Thanks for your time also.....

But is it really necessary to improve upon it for the few people (relatively speaking) that have the setup in order to even notice?

Like I said earler, I can take a dump and it will sound and look good on a $1500 setup. It doesnt mean I should do it though.

Robinson wrote:

Moonhawk wrote:Yeh I especially like his closing remark

I'm guessing a high-res mix could well have trounced this one. That's not to take anything away from this truly exceptional mix, but this is one case where I think you truly can improve upon perfection.

Thanks for your time also.....

But is it really necessary to improve upon it for the few people (relatively speaking) that have the setup in order to even notice?

Like I said earler, I can take a dump and it will sound and look good on a $1500 setup. It doesnt mean I should do it though.

Thats not the point. HD-DVD is touted as the next generation of picture and sound. For people willing to pay the extra for these disks (not to mention the investment in equipment) - they should at least get what they are paying for.

With this disk they are getting HD picture - but normal DVD audio.

Take this analagy - It'd be like buying Transformers on SD-DVD that had DVD quality picture - but only had dolby stereo like what you get on VHS (i.e. not dolby 5.1 surround).

Well perhaps thats the price you pay for being on the bandwagon just a tad to early when there isnt a clear cut format for the next generation. Whats going to happen if blue ray is the winner in the format wars? You're going to have a big pretty paerweight. You cant have you cake and eat it too. Theres no such thing as the perfect dvd.

Robinson wrote:Well perhaps thats the price you pay for being on the bandwagon just a tad to early when there isnt a clear cut format for the next generation. Whats going to happen if blue ray is the winner in the format wars? You're going to have a big pretty paerweight. You cant have you cake and eat it too. Theres no such thing as the perfect dvd.

Actually - I kinda went with Blu-Ray (as a natural consequence of buying a PS3 for gaming)

I was approaching this from the point of view that paramount clearly doesnt give a monkeys about its customers and will feed them any old tripe. It has intentionally inflamed the HD DVD format war by hopping sides (after taking suitable backhanders).

Which one will win - I have no idea - kinda hoping blu-ray - but hey, HD-DVD players are becoming so cheap now that if it doesnt - it wont bother me one bit - except for the knowledge that the inferior product will have won. Its for the people to decide. I'm patient and will just hold out and buy TF on blu-ray if paramount ever reverse their decision - or HD-DVD on ebay if they dont

Moonhawk wrote:

Robinson wrote:Well perhaps thats the price you pay for being on the bandwagon just a tad to early when there isnt a clear cut format for the next generation. Whats going to happen if blue ray is the winner in the format wars? You're going to have a big pretty paerweight. You cant have you cake and eat it too. Theres no such thing as the perfect dvd.

Actually - I kinda went with Blu-Ray (as a natural consequence of buying a PS3 for gaming)

I was approaching this from the point of view that paramount clearly doesnt give a monkeys about its customers and will feed them any old tripe. It has intentionally inflamed the HD DVD format war by hopping sides (after taking suitable backhanders).

Which one will win - I have no idea - kinda hoping blu-ray - but hey, HD-DVD players are becoming so cheap now that if it doesnt - it wont bother me one bit - except for the knowledge that the inferior product will have won. Its for the people to decide. I'm patient and will just hold out and buy TF on blu-ray if paramount ever reverse their decision - or HD-DVD on ebay if they dont

Vhs was the inferior choice way back when, look how well that turned out.

Robinson wrote:Vhs was the inferior choice way back when, look how well that turned out.

Hardly a fair comparison - the VHS/Betamax battle was fought in a climate of emerging technology. It was marketing strategy that dictated the outcome of that one - so what exactly is your point? The current HD format war is different in that is is familiar technology and people are a lot more clued up technically.

Last time this happened consumers ended up with someting that wasnt quite as good as it could have been for the next 15 years - perhaps we are in for a repeat performance - perhaps not.

Moonhawk wrote:

Robinson wrote:Vhs was the inferior choice way back when, look how well that turned out.

Hardly a fair comparison - the VHS/Betamax battle was fought in a climate of emerging technology. It was marketing strategy that dictated the outcome of that one - so what exactly is your point? The current HD format war is different in that is is familiar technology and people are a lot more clued up technically.

Last time this happened consumers ended up with someting that wasnt quite as good as it could have been for the next 15 years - perhaps we are in for a repeat performance - perhaps not.

Its all about who does a better job marketing their product to the consumer. That will determine the winner.