The Energon Pub

So, lemme get this straight. Some people seem to have very little issue with the level of violence in RotF (and it *is* violent - geeheehee), but they're more concerned with norty cusswords? Really?

Reality check - people swear. The film is rated as having swearing in it, and kids will learn far worse words in the playground than they ever will in a film.

Name_Violation wrote:and optimus' face fetish in this was a little perturbing. i don't wanna know what he intends to do with all of them...

Thank heavens: I thought I was the only one who noticed that!

(Normally I'd apologize for a thread-hijack, but I know everyone ignores me anyway).

I overthink everything, of course, and this hasn't gelled for me yet, but here's the thread I'm following:

I won't bore you (more) with the hardcore literary theory behind it, but it has something to do with faces representing identity. You know, when you want people to know what you look like, you show them a picture of your face, right? Not your armpit. By attacking the face (which is as far as I've noticed, the only Decepticon part NOT weaponized (unless you count Starscream's drool, which I don't), he's attacking their identity/individuality. It goes well with the fact that most of the Decepticons were identityless drones. It's connected somehow with the ramped up Autobot violence, I'm certain. Complete annihilation of the enemy instead of just tactical victory. It's kind of disturbing.

What it all means? I'm not quite there yet. It took 5 viewings for me to figure out the first movie (I can account for just about everything in that film using Freud and Foucault), so it'll be awhile before I nail this one down.

HK, who will find a way to work 'phallogocentrism' into this somehow. Cuz I is

pr0wl wrote:I don't think I made my point clear
but it wasn't the cursing altogether
but it was the amount of foul language used

m bay said that skids and mudflap were designed for kids
but they were the ones cursing through the entire film
I never really cared about tryingv to make an adult film into a kiddie movie
I bet half of the theaters population was pissed that they were tricked into brinngin their kids to a cuss fest

im sure people remember the cursewords in tf1
but they didn't curse to the same extent
im just sayin I hope tf3
isn't chalked with curse words

I see your point completely. Especially Skids and Mudflap being for kids, they were the worst. Wheelie was pretty bad, too. In the original movie, the cussing was because of panic and fear, while in this movie it's more about humor. I believe there's a major difference. I don't mind as much when they're in the middle of a battle about to die or something, but when it's just for comedy, it's not good. ESPECIALLY when a Transformer does it. Why would they anyway? It's not even their normal language, it seems like they would talk more straight foward, than in slang terms.

T-Macksimus wrote:In answer to the english/cybertronian thing N_V, I think the switching back to English is for the benfit of the fans. Having Starscream speak in Cybertronian while he's in his jet mode, causing for a lingering shot of an F-22 while the translation plays out at the bottom of the screen, that's for the benefit of the US Military and giving a nod to their kick-ass jet. It's probably why Bay gets so much cooperation from the military. He's kissing butt.

Well that's the reason it was MADE like that, but if it was all real it doesn't really make sense. Logically they would all talk in Cybertron language to each other, except maybe the autobots because they're trying to be nice to the humans. But Starscream and Megatron would talk Cybertronian, as well as Soundwave. The only reason Soundwave needed English really was to understand what the humans were talking about through the mic.

Which brings a good question, wouldn't Demolishor and Sideways have learned Chinese? It seems weird, but that would be their surrounding language.

YRQRM0 wrote:

T-Macksimus wrote:In answer to the english/cybertronian thing N_V, I think the switching back to English is for the benfit of the fans. Having Starscream speak in Cybertronian while he's in his jet mode, causing for a lingering shot of an F-22 while the translation plays out at the bottom of the screen, that's for the benefit of the US Military and giving a nod to their kick-ass jet. It's probably why Bay gets so much cooperation from the military. He's kissing butt.

Well that's the reason it was MADE like that, but if it was all real it doesn't really make sense. Logically they would all talk in Cybertron language to each other, except maybe the autobots because they're trying to be nice to the humans. But Starscream and Megatron would talk Cybertronian, as well as Soundwave. The only reason Soundwave needed English really was to understand what the humans were talking about through the mic.

Which brings a good question, wouldn't Demolishor and Sideways have learned Chinese? It seems weird, but that would be their surrounding language.

If you want to approach the whole thing logically, we as moviegoers wouldn't have the benefit of subtitles at all. They communicate interpersonally through encoded high speed data bursts. They have to slow things down dramatically to be able to communicate with humans at all.(Movie and Prequel novelizations covers all of this) However, logically 40 ft. militaristic robots from another planet don't exist. It all boils down to the 5 words you mentioned earlier..."if it was all real". It's not, it's just a movie and people are searching for logic and rhyme and reason in a piece of fiction and entertainment. That in and of itself defies all logic. If that is everyones goal here, everyone missed the freaking point.

syphonn wrote:I agree with the OP, though the movie is rated PG-13, clearly it was marketed towards younger children and as such the creative team should have been more mindful of the characters diction (and actions).

I agree with you both too. I don't mind some cursing in a movie, I am used to hearing it from my parents and pretty much everyone around me. But what I am bothered with, is that it seems that the movie mechandise is aimed at kids when the movie itself clearly has adult content. I wouldn't be bothered by it if there wasn't any advertising/toys aimed at kids, because hey, it's for grownups. But for Hasbro, it's all about the almighty dollar.

Rodimus_light wrote:
It will fade and you will mature or you wont. and Well **** off then.

thats real "mature"
you sure handled that like an adult
why dont you harass someone else
if i were a lesser person i wouldve cursed back at you but im more mature than that
have a nice life
hey guys howd i do for my first negative encounter?

Zombie Starscream wrote:

syphonn wrote:I agree with the OP, though the movie is rated PG-13, clearly it was marketed towards younger children and as such the creative team should have been more mindful of the characters diction (and actions).

I agree with you both too. I don't mind some cursing in a movie, I am used to hearing it from my parents and pretty much everyone around me. But what I am bothered with, is that it seems that the movie mechandise is aimed at kids when the movie itself clearly has adult content. I wouldn't be bothered by it if there wasn't any advertising/toys aimed at kids, because hey, it's for grownups. But for Hasbro, it's all about the almighty dollar.

I agree to some extent, but not completely. I think that movie makers, toy makers, manufacturers etc should not market to kids in a deceitful fashion.

However, I have to rest the blame on the parents for not reading the rating and what was entailed. It isn't like the ratings system is a new thing; it has been around for years, and the parents that don't pay attention to it are at fault. This is the bottom line-If people don't want kids to see or hear things, then don't let them. The movie makers ask for peoples' money and that is all. If the watcher has a problem with it, they can decide to refrain from spending it or demand that money back.........BEFORE they have watched the movie in it's entirety.

I don't think you guys are wrong at all, actually. I just don't want to let the parents off the hook. They are the ones with the ultimate responsibilty to filter the situation, and if they decide not to then they cannot complain about the outcome.

pr0wl wrote:

Rodimus_light wrote:
It will fade and you will mature or you wont. and Well **** off then.

thats real "mature"
you sure handled that like an adult
why dont you harass someone else
if i were a lesser person i wouldve cursed back at you but im more mature than that
have a nice life
hey guys howd i do for my first negative encounter?

Very nice indeed Pr0wl. And yeah I think Rodimus_light should follow his own advise. Hehe, but it could have been worse. I think his comment is pretty tame compared to the scrap I've seen on the web. As for the other things you have stated in this thread...Commendable. You make a good Autobot. Prowl of Praxus would feel honored that you carry on his name with such good morals and values. I'm sure any true Autobot would be.

As Flare mentioned, you handled things like an Autobot should. Stick your values, don't give in to the negativity, uphold the standards. Being a mercenary, my standards are somewhat differrent. However, out of respect and admiration for you I'll snipe the individual in my spare time and I won't charge ya.

T-Macksimus wrote:As Flare mentioned, you handled things like an Autobot should. Stick your values, don't give in to the negativity, uphold the standards. Being a mercenary, my standards are somewhat differrent. However, out of respect and admiration for you I'll snipe the individual in my spare time and I won't charge ya.

How generous of you. Offering to lynch Rodimus_light for Pr0wl are ya? Hehe... Is that some sort of special rebate coming from a mercenary?

T-Macksimus wrote:As Flare mentioned, you handled things like an Autobot should. Stick your values, don't give in to the negativity, uphold the standards. Being a mercenary, my standards are somewhat differrent. However, out of respect and admiration for you I'll snipe the individual in my spare time and I won't charge ya.

T-Mack,

I believe you lack sufficient Evil Quality Points to handle this on your own. My GPA in Evil is 3.85.

Besides, white knights run into a lot of trouble when they engage in morally dubious things like sniping. You should subcontract to a proper Decepticon.

HK, such as myself.

This got nerdy real quick.

Robinson wrote:This got nerdy real quick.

your avatar looks like an alpaca

Prime Riblet wrote:

Zombie Starscream wrote:

syphonn wrote:I agree with the OP, though the movie is rated PG-13, clearly it was marketed towards younger children and as such the creative team should have been more mindful of the characters diction (and actions).

I agree with you both too. I don't mind some cursing in a movie, I am used to hearing it from my parents and pretty much everyone around me. But what I am bothered with, is that it seems that the movie mechandise is aimed at kids when the movie itself clearly has adult content. I wouldn't be bothered by it if there wasn't any advertising/toys aimed at kids, because hey, it's for grownups. But for Hasbro, it's all about the almighty dollar.

I agree to some extent, but not completely. I think that movie makers, toy makers, manufacturers etc should not market to kids in a deceitful fashion.

However, I have to rest the blame on the parents for not reading the rating and what was entailed. It isn't like the ratings system is a new thing; it has been around for years, and the parents that don't pay attention to it are at fault. This is the bottom line-If people don't want kids to see or hear things, then don't let them. The movie makers ask for peoples' money and that is all. If the watcher has a problem with it, they can decide to refrain from spending it or demand that money back.........BEFORE they have watched the movie in it's entirety.

I don't think you guys are wrong at all, actually. I just don't want to let the parents off the hook. They are the ones with the ultimate responsibilty to filter the situation, and if they decide not to then they cannot complain about the outcome.

Understood, but my point was not about parents being caught off guard by the language, but more so them having to tell their child(ren) they can't see the movie ... even though it was marketed towards them because of language and situations

hellkitty wrote:

T-Macksimus wrote:As Flare mentioned, you handled things like an Autobot should. Stick your values, don't give in to the negativity, uphold the standards. Being a mercenary, my standards are somewhat differrent. However, out of respect and admiration for you I'll snipe the individual in my spare time and I won't charge ya.

T-Mack,

I believe you lack sufficient Evil Quality Points to handle this on your own. My GPA in Evil is 3.85.

Besides, white knights run into a lot of trouble when they engage in morally dubious things like sniping. You should subcontract to a proper Decepticon.

HK, such as myself.

HK, PM'd you with directions on how to access my 'resume'. Let's do coffee, talk shop and compare scars.


As for our thread topic, has anyone started nosing around the informational pages for the studios to see what their take is on it? They have doubtless recieved TONS of response on the topic and ultimately Spielberg is the one holding the reins. He's a family man and he has always rather prided himself on the types of movies he's associated with. Bitching about it to Bay will get us nowhere. He can't hear on account of all the years of explosions anyway. Spielberg is the guy to squak at at the only one who has the power to influence the writers AND Bay about this issue. We might want to throw some heat his way if this is something that is troubling folks as far as how TF3 will be.

Hmm. After watching Transformers 2, I couldn't help but think if only Ironhide swore more, and maybe Optimus Prime did let out an expletive.

Look, if Transformers had been a PG film, I more than likely never would have gone to see it. Personally, I wish they would screw this PG-13 content and go for an R-rated film, but because of the failure of Watchmen, that's never going to happen.

It may have started as a kid's franchise, but like people say, those kids grew up to be adults, and I don't know about you, but I don't want things watered down for the kids. Also, you think Transformers is the only movie out there that tried to sell toys to kids, with a mature movie? Don't know if you realize this, but Aliens and The Terminator series sell toys and comics that kids love to buy and play with. I remember going to see Terminator 2 when I was like 10, and I wasn't the only kid there. It looked appealing to my dad because they had the boy in it. I was more shocked with Sarah Connor character than any of the language or violence, but still, as a 10 year old, I enjoyed it. TF2 is not as hard core as Terminator 2, or, even the original Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle live action film, which was a PG, a hard as you can get PG, but it's definitely not as sugar coated as Walle or E.T, nor would I ever want it to be.

And I hope Optimus Prime does say the F word in the third film. We've never seen Optimus Prime as a hard core soldier before, but not because it was "out of character" but because a cartoon is severely restricted with what they can show. Now, with a PG-13 rating, and an audience across the spectrum, it's almost no holds bars.

And oh, wouldn't it be nice if humans start to side with the Decepticons. I'd like to see the damage Sideswipe can do with his massive swords. A Transformer's leaking lubricants just doesn't quite cut it compared to all out blood shed. Wouldn't mind seeing Megatron skin a human either, kind of like what Pyramid Head did to that girl in Silent Hill.

Well, then that's really unfair for younger generations.
Transformers was around for YEARS before I got into it as a 12 year old. If it had progressed to a full out "adult series", I would never have gotten into it, and I wouldn't be here talking to everyone about how cool giant transforming robot aliens are.

I don't know about everyone else, but I want Transformers to be around as long as possible, but it won't last long if they don't attract new fans. And most fans are hooked as little kids.

I don't go near anything R rated even at 18 years old. It's personal preference. I don't enjoy them. Even after I try to give it a chance, I never find them entertaining, so I shut it off.

I doubt I could stomach R rated Transformers.
Robot vs. Robot carnage probably wouldn't bother me. I probably think it was cool. But I can't imagine the human character crap that would be thrown in there.

I think PG-13 should be it's rating limit. It's still low enough of a rating that younger fans can check it out, high enough to not be childish so adults can enjoy it.

I might enjoy a PG TF movie, but my gut says it would end up WAY to campy.
LOL!! I'd watch it anyway though.

^ You don't watch R-Rated movies? But so many of them are really good. Aliens, Die Hard (the first three anyways) Terminator flicks (the first three), True Lies, The Hangover, My Cousin Vinny.....just to name a few.

But yeah, I see where you are coming from about the PG-13 being the best bet for the Transformers. Still, I'm a gore freak, and it would be nice to see some carnage inflicted on the humans by the Transformers. Why not have some guy get into a Decepticon tank, and the Decepticon tank transforms while the man is still inside him. They could still show the blood splatter,like they did in Jurassic Park movies, which are PG-13.

I find TransFormers to be the more offensive of the two, really.

Now wait, hear me out.

We'd never had a cinematic experience like this before, so we were all excited and totally unprepared for the content.

The language, the humor, the sexual content, all unneeded in a film like Transformers, considering it was a child/family friendly property to begin with.

Now, with that in mind...the audience knew what was coming in the second film, and that it was going to be bigger, louder, and more of the same. Knowing what the first one was like and that it was offensive to quite a few (mainly parents), not going to see the second one should be a no-brainer.

Aside from Mikaela's F-bomb, the sexy scenes with Alice, and the excessive violence (in some scenes, not all)...ROTF is a walk in the park in terms of content, really.

If you watched the first film, the shock and awe of the material, the negative feeling it gives you considering the film it's in, then you shouldn't be the least bit surprised that the sequel would contain the same content.

But it really isn't as bad as the first movie which had a lot of shock value. Now? It's status quo. If you go see it, and you bring your kids, and you're offended, then it's clearly your fault. Why would you think the content would change from the first when it was such a hit with the audiences?

I'll admit, I don't see a need for it to be there, especially the f-bomb, considering it's origins as a property, but I'm used to it by now. If I buy a ticket, I need to shut up and enjoy everything else about the experience.

Burn wrote:

Evil_the_Nub wrote:It's a movie about a war, people don't say "oh fiddley dee I'm being shot at" they say "oh s#$%! I'm being shot at!"

Unless you're Captain Jack Sparrow, then there's a pretty good chance you'll be caught saying "oh fiddley dee, i'm being shot at", or at the very least, "OH BUGGER!"
Goddamn Disney, how I hate thee yet like some of your movies.

teehee i agree

Someone probably already mentioned this, but the cussin' seems kind of unnecessary to me in this movie possibly for *this reason* as well:

That we already have 'Cybertronian cuss words'. Like 'slag' (which I understand is not a nice thing to say in the UK but here in America it's harmless enough), or 'scrap it' or the like. Why not have the robots, at least, use those? That would add the level of 'oh slag, that hurts!' realism to it, but not open the gaping wide door of how cuss words would/could translate from Cybertronian.

And the 'cussin' is fer soldiers' line works to an extent, but, and I mentioned this before, the Fbomb is dropped by *Mikaela*. Who is NOT a soldier. Why does the naughtiest word get dropped by the non-combatant?

I agree, btw, that there are a LOT of good movies that are R rated. Of course, I love war movies and horror flicks. Being American, I'm used to my media being prudish about sex but all about the ultraviolence. (I read somewhere that you European friends are the other way 'round--sex is okay, but violence is a no-no--is that true?). But I support Siren's desire to keep it clean for herself. There's enough ugly in the world that she doesn't have to find that 'entertainment' if she doesn't want to.

HK, or as my friend Judge Dredd says, 'drokk it'.

Yuckmouth wrote:I am seriously surprised at the short sightedness in people who say "It's rated Pg 13, you should know better".

This is a movie based on a kids show that is marketed towards kids and people who AS KIDS grew up liking transformers. Most of the merchandise (i.e. toys) for this movie are in the same isle as the Star Wars, Bakugan, Ben 10 and Pokemon toys and in case you forget this is licensed by Hasbro, which is a toy company. Hell in my Target the Transformers stuff shares an isle with freaking Thomas the Train and Fisher Price Imaginext toys.

If you are not a parent I doubt you really care and the whole point is that there is no reason for YOU to care about the swearing. But parents (like me) who have two little boys that pretend each and every day that they are transformers and talk about transformers all day long and ask you questions like "Who do you think would be a better leader of the Decepticons, Starscream or Megatron?" and then proceed to tell you the pros and cons of each freaking character are the ones who want to take their kids to the movies to have an awesome, epic movie experience and we can't because of robots calling each other "pu**Y" and "bitch" which is completely and totally not needed.

*I* do not have a problem with foul language. Some of my favorite movies of all time are loaded with profanity like Scary Movie 1, 40 year old virgin, role models, etc. But they are not in any way marketing towards kids, with figures in the freaking toy isle and in Burger King kids meals.

Yeah the movie made $200 million dollars in the first week but anyone who went to a show before 7pm can tell you there were A LOT of kids in the theater. Parents are ok with letting their kids have some exposure to "fantasy violence" (look at all the weaponry and blasters and combat material in toy isles) but not so ok with cursing. It's the same thing with Star Wars and why it's wildly popular. But if Obi Wan was calling Anakin a whiny bitch and the Emperor was telling Luke he was "getting an ass whuppin" you suddenly change the game completely and you piss off a lot of parents (i.e buyers).

We buy the toys, clothes, posters, books and games for our kids and we take our kids to the movies. We are the reason Transfomers are successful today and our parents are the reason it was successful in the 80s because parents PAY for this stuff. Sure there are collectors but I'm not so sure Hasbro banks on collectors to fill their coffers around Christmas time and buy kids meals and wear transformers pajamas to bed.

So in a nutshell, parents don't like the language because we WANT to take our kids to the movie, but can't. Before anyone says "it doesn't matter what YOU want", well it certainly does matter because I don't know of anyone or any movie company aside from maybe Kevin Smith who makes movies for themselves.

Very well spoken man. This is why Lucas will ALWAYS be the master and all others the learner. He managed to make movies that parents wanted to take their kids to see and knew they would be safe. The only exception is where Anakin gets BBQed in ROTS. Being born in 1975 I grew up with Star Wars and Transformers I love getting to share that with my kids through the new Star Wars and Transformers movies and toys. I will take them to see any Star Wars or Transformers movies regardless, as it's more about sharing something from my childhood with them. I do think that they could be more selective with the content in the $200 million toy commercial and can't really think of a part that could not have worked without the crude humor. Remove the twins and Wheelie and the rest works fine with me.

Robinson wrote:This got nerdy real quick.

YA KNOW WHAT?!

he has a point

i just got mudflap
(th' twins don't work without bumblebee)he makes 'em look awesome

But it really isn't as bad as the first movie which had a lot of shock value. Now? It's status quo. If you go see it, and you bring your kids, and you're offended, then it's clearly your fault. Why would you think the content would change from the first when it was such a hit with the audiences?

I didnt think either movie was that bad. Like have you all be watching nothing but leave it to beaver for last 20 years? They say most of what was said in RotF on TV nowdays. I remember as a kid, friends of mine would which horror movies all time which had harsh language. Heck Tom and Jerry had the word Jacka** in it in a few episodes. A few books I read use word A** and B**** in their true sense referring to animals. I saw Aliens when I was like 9, and I for most part didnt swear till I got older. Which had more do with being surrounded with the constant barrage of potty mouthed other kids than anything I ever watched.

Its Pg-13, so you get what that brings. Which I took kids with me to see it. I asked people who saw it before I did if there was anything sexual, or really unkid friendly. Long as they didnt up the ante past the Sam's happy time joke in the first film.I d be ok with it.(the kiddos seen my grandparents dog hump things before as he humps everything, so they just laughed when they saw that without really knowing why the dogs did it.) Given the trailer I was alittle worried at first the movie might be a bit scary for them, but aside from the insects poking around sams head grossing out my niece, they seemed fine with the whole experience. I wasnt about give them both nightmare if I could help it heh.

If Id found something I thought was too much for them i wouldnt let them see it, or their mom would told me not let them see it as I talked with her before they went. I made it very clear what they might be exposed to. Not like she lets them see everything, as my nephew wanted watch Ironman, and she decided to pass as she watched it before hand, and thought the scenes with the terrorists was alittle too close to real life. I just showed him the part of ironman fighting Ironmonger at the end as I sometimes give him the edited version of things heh. Just the few cool fight scenes like the hulk battling the army in the 2003 film.

Given sheer amount of swearing both their parents say, I had no issues with bringing them on that front.(which its cute my niece says aww pickles when inplace of a swear word heh.) Unless your kids live in a vacuum they re going get exposed to it at some point. I think you re better off confronting it head on and saying you might hear these things but you re not emulate it rather than make taboo, and over all a bigger deal. I mean half the time kids who swore didnt even use the word properly, I think why the F bombs gotten so lose to what it means any more.

I think PG-13 the best market for action/comic films. Plus incase of transformers, I dont see what it really gain from adding more swearing, possible nudity, or gory deaths. The sawed in half soldier was enough for me. (Reedman, the pointy nanomachine that came out of ravage killed a guy by running thru him when they steal the All spark shard. Its subtlely done, but it happened as you see two parts off him fall to side of the camera.) Most of the kills on humans were clean enough. They give the movie enough realism without watering it down, or just adding stuff that isnt really need.

Could they dial down the swearing and potty humour a bit. Sure I wouldnt be upset by it.But Im not outraged by its prescence either. Its not like they all swear every 5 secs or did anything that wild. If you werent sure, go see it yourself. If telling your kids no to a movie is worst thing you have do then you re getting off easy heh.

They'll get over it, as I didnt get see Gremlins 2 when it came out I was up by my grand parents,since I was 10 at the time they didnt let me go with my cousins to see it. (partly cause my lil sister was scared by the first one, so they needed make so she couldnt go and I got brought down by that heh.) But I got enjoy it a few years later on video so no harm done. (stuff took longer get on video back in the tape era.) I suppose just wait till shown on Cable, which they'll have an edited version probably cleaning up most your complains.

As for toys being aimmed at kids, Terminator, Aliens and Predator and even Cloverfield has toys. I mean Watchmen has action figures and its anti kid as you can get. None of those movies are kid friendly in the least. Its not like transformers has forgotten its core audience as they made a very kid friendly animated series after the 2007 movie. Im sure they'll start up another soon enough. Just cause the movies arent for kids, doesnt mean they stopped putting transformer related stuff in the kids reach like comics did during the 90s.

Im glad they can have mature storylines like in beast wars and the bay films, but Im glad they dont forget who originally made the series a success in first place too. Hasbro being a toy maker sure hasn't.