The Energon Pub

News Credits: 2 · by **Phategod1** » Mon May 07, 2007 8:32 pm

Seibertron wrote:
Wingus wrote:It's my belief that if you're running a big site like this, that hundreds, if not thousands of TF fans and regular folks visit every day,

Around an average of 25,000 every day, but that's irrelevant right now.

Wingus wrote:you should go for neutrality. I'm not intolerant of opinions, I'm intolerant of using a site that people use for news on their hobby as a soapbox to present your views to.

Nope. I haven't invested 10s of thousands of dollars into this website over the past 7 years to prevent me from voicing my opinion. If you want neutrality, some of my competitors are far better at it than I am. Please feel free to visit the following sites if you want what might be perceived as neutrality:

http://www.tfw2005.com
http://www.tformers.com
http://www.allspark.com

Seibertron.com will never be neutral and I will be more than happy to share my opinion with the fandom when I feel it is necessary AND appropriate. Mind you, I haven't said a lot since the Megatron 101 incident last August, but considering the amazing amounts of traffic that we received and the incredible number of emails I received from people thanking me for being so bold in expressing my opinion and the sheer number of websites that linked to that little stunt, I'd say I was in the right. I have done anything controversial since then. It's been almost 8.5 months since that incident. I'd like to think that I know when to say something. I've had plenty of opinions both positive and negative during those 8.5 months but I haven't used the homepage of the site to really express those opinions since then. I pick my battles carefully. This isn't a battle this time. It's too late.

I'm just letting everyone know where Seibertron.com stands behind this issue. If you don't like that I'm doing this, you're more than welcome to visit this site's competitors that don't express their opinion in public.

Wingus wrote:I'm all for showing my opinion. I'm doing it right now, here in the forums, where it belongs. Not out on the FRONT PAGE, cluttering up news with heavily one-sided opinions.

You are more than welcome to express your opinion and I really appreciate you telling me what you think about me expressing mine. I welcome opposing views such as yours. I'm glad that you are telling me that you disagree with me using Seibertron.com to express my opinions. The very thing that you don't like is the very thing that makes this site different than the other major Transformers websites. As much as I hate to say this, I guess I'd consider this site to be along the lines of Fox News amongst news agencies like MSNBC and CNN. The difference between Seibertron.com and Fox News is that Fox News lies by saying that they're the "No Spin Zone". Well, we tell it like it is here. If we don't something, there's no bullshit here. You'll know we don't like it. I'll always call a spade a spade.

Wingus wrote:I'm just tired of all the complaining. Prime has all the big things down. Red and blue truck. Blue head. Peter-freakin'-Cullen, and yet people wank and soapbox about A MOUTH AND SOME FLAMES.

That's your opinion. I don't think they've got all of the major things down pat NOW. Prime was the ONE character that I thought they did their best to which they stayed faithful. I can no longer say that. Prime is now one of the screwed up bunch. Prior to this news, I had been saying that I wish they had paid as much respect to the other characters prior designs as they did with Prime. Can't say that anymore except for maybe, just maybe, Jazz. But that's even a stretch.

Im up to page 14 would you guys slow down I'm at work 3 cheers for Ryan YOUR MY F'N Optimus Prime. All those other sites are being more then Nuetral no one would have a problem If Siebs loved everything he saw. But the simple fact is this project has been shown the thing I've been saying since my Join date "Total Lack Of respect"

by **For Gondor!** » Mon May 07, 2007 8:41 pm

Yes it is interesting that a news piece with a negative spin on it attracts criticism from someone with hardly a post to his name..I doubt it would have attracted the same attention if it had been a ringing endorsement of Andross Prime's lips.

News Credits: 3 · by **LuckytheWonderLlama** » Mon May 07, 2007 9:03 pm

I don't get it.

You people that consider yourselves Die-Hard fans of Transformers are acting like somebody raped your puppy and ran over it with a MoPed all because Prime has a mouth (or things are not done the way you think it should be).

Yet I consider myself a Die-Hard fan of Transformers and I don't care. I think all of the work that has been done on this film has been fantastic and it will be phenominal.

I've learned a long time ago that every single incarnation of Transformers is different from the one before it. It has... *gasp* Transformed! :shock:

Why are all of the nay-sayers being so intollerant of someone else's vision? I feel very respected as a fan by those that are producing this film. I look forward to seeing the latest evolution of the one of the greatest memories from my childhood.

Thank you Speilberg and Bay for going forward with your vision of Transformers. Maybe you will inspire others to do the same and make their own. If they have the testicular fortitude to stand up to the crap that you have had to deal with.

News Credits: 2 · by **Phategod1** » Mon May 07, 2007 10:17 pm

Up to page 20 The only thing disagree with Siebertron on Is seeing this movie. Please for the love of God dont support this movie If you don't like the direction its taking. Why on earth would you support this lesson in mediocrity? It's like saying I'll support you no matter what you shovel on my plate. I'm sorry but we can't Except this republican like support. Force The higher Ups to take a look at their profits and Losses and a make Mob Boss Valinquest pay. Oh and Orci while your Double Daring why dont you Double dare me to pay for it. I'm sorry but this is not Voting I dont have to pay to see it, to complain about it. whether I DL it sneak into it or wait for cable I might see it but be damned if I pay. Now the Videogame is a different story Depending on the reviews I MAY buy it but I'll probably at least rent it. Besides Someone owes me $19 bucks for sitting through LOXG.

News Credits: 2 · by **Phategod1** » Mon May 07, 2007 10:22 pm

Nightwatcher wrote:
skywarp-2 wrote:
Bender Prime wrote:Speak for yourself, I don't mind the on/off face plate, the benefits obviously outweigh the disadvantages given the scope and purpose of the film, something no one on here can comment on having not seen how these things actually look in motion.

And Bay is cool, there is no one I'd rather have directing my big robots movie, other than maybe Cameron.

So lets see what benefits do a 40 foot robot from outspace may have with a mouth... eating?? Drinking?? Kissing a fellow autobettie? breathing?

Having humans relate to you? Imagine if someone walked up with no mouth but they could speak perfectly. There was just a blank spot there. Would you freak out?

If a 40 Ft tall robot starts talking to you are you really saying to yourself "I'm sure glad he has a mouth, or I'd really freak out."

News Credits: 2 · by **Phategod1** » Mon May 07, 2007 10:42 pm

Milanion wrote:
Chris™ wrote:
durkadurka wrote:i've yet to see a flaming rig in my part of the world, but hey, maybe they have plenty of them in hollywood. Or maybe that's just a leftover setpiece from "2 fast 2 furious"

as for the fire truck thing...i don't think most fans of G1 didnt know/care about that incarnation. I saw it once and was like "wtf?"

Some one posted some pics awhile back of a gathering of Big Rigs in cnanada i think, I'm not sure on the location but there were a lot of flaming rigs and rigs done up real nice.

I see one almost every day, including this morning on my way to work, even in the suburbs. This argument is pretty weak. A lot of trucks in the USA (where the movie takes place) have flames. End of story.

The mask, well, they could have kept the mask.

Care to post a pics of this as a fellow Philadelphian I haven't seen a Flaming Semi in any of my travels.

by **The Paragon of Virtue** » Mon May 07, 2007 10:53 pm

Phategod1 wrote:Care to post a pics of this as a fellow Philadelphian I haven't seen a Flaming Semi in any of my travels.

Internet searches are your friend.

Truck with flames: http://www.signspecialist.com/stripes/semi/truck12.jpg

http://www.airbrushartists.org/Images/T ... miSide.jpg

And I thought I was cynical.

News Credits: 2 · by **Phategod1** » Mon May 07, 2007 11:24 pm

The Paragon of Virtue wrote:
Phategod1 wrote:Care to post a pics of this as a fellow Philadelphian I haven't seen a Flaming Semi in any of my travels.

Internet searches are your friend.

Truck with flames: http://www.signspecialist.com/stripes/semi/truck12.jpg

http://www.airbrushartists.org/Images/T ... miSide.jpg

And I thought I was cynical.

Thanks I had no Idea there were so many ricer trucks.

News Credits: 1 · by **D-340** » Mon May 07, 2007 11:28 pm

Phategod1 wrote:Up to page 20 The only thing disagree with Siebertron on Is seeing this movie. Please for the love of God dont support this movie If you don't like the direction its taking. Why on earth would you support this lesson in mediocrity? It's like saying I'll support you no matter what you shovel on my plate. I'm sorry but we can't Except this republican like support. Force The higher Ups to take a look at their profits and Losses and a make Mob Boss Valinquest pay. Oh and Orci while your Double Daring why dont you Double dare me to pay for it. I'm sorry but this is not Voting I dont have to pay to see it, to complain about it. whether I DL it sneak into it or wait for cable I might see it but be damned if I pay. Now the Videogame is a different story Depending on the reviews I MAY buy it but I'll probably at least rent it. Besides Someone owes me $19 bucks for sitting through LOXG.

Because he's a true TF fan. I will be supporting the film too. If it flops, rest assured Hasbro's gonna pull the plug cuz they won't see TF's as profitable anymore. And besides, how can you complain if you haven't seen it, some things may suck, but the whole may be ok, but then again you've made your choice. You'd rather see it all fail so you could say "I told ya so!", right?

News Credits: 3 · by **LuckytheWonderLlama** » Mon May 07, 2007 11:32 pm

Phategod1 wrote:Up to page 20 The only thing disagree with Siebertron on Is seeing this movie. Please for the love of God dont support this movie If you don't like the direction its taking. Why on earth would you support this lesson in mediocrity? It's like saying I'll support you no matter what you shovel on my plate. I'm sorry but we can't Except this republican like support. Force The higher Ups to take a look at their profits and Losses and a make Mob Boss Valinquest pay. Oh and Orci while your Double Daring why dont you Double dare me to pay for it. I'm sorry but this is not Voting I dont have to pay to see it, to complain about it. whether I DL it sneak into it or wait for cable I might see it but be damned if I pay. Now the Videogame is a different story Depending on the reviews I MAY buy it but I'll probably at least rent it. Besides Someone owes me $19 bucks for sitting through LOXG.

This movie is going to be great. Too bad you are going to miss it. :lol:

News Credits: 25 · by **Ironhidensh** » Mon May 07, 2007 11:48 pm

LuckytheWonderLlama wrote:I don't get it.

You people that consider yourselves Die-Hard fans of Transformers are acting like somebody raped your puppy and ran over it with a MoPed all because Prime has a mouth (or things are not done the way you think it should be).

Yet I consider myself a Die-Hard fan of Transformers and I don't care. I think all of the work that has been done on this film has been fantastic and it will be phenominal.

I've learned a long time ago that every single incarnation of Transformers is different from the one before it. It has... *gasp* Transformed!

Why are all of the nay-sayers being so intollerant of someone else's vision? I feel very respected as a fan by those that are producing this film. I look forward to seeing the latest evolution of the one of the greatest memories from my childhood.

Thank you Speilberg and Bay for going forward with your vision of Transformers. Maybe you will inspire others to do the same and make their own. If they have the testicular fortitude to stand up to the crap that you have had to deal with.

You aren't alone.

On the bright side, its no different than the fan reactions to any other "geek" property that has been transcribed on to film.

I have to be honest and say it. If you are letting something as small and unimportant as Prime having flames or lips ruin the movie for you, you are a pretty poor fan. That's just how I feel. Flames and lips have no effect whatsoever on the character of Prime. Its a very petty thing to throw a fit over. Common people, we need to learn from the past here.

Did organic web-shooters ruin Spider-man? No.

Did black leather outfits ruin X-men? No.

Will lips or flames ruin Transformers? No.

Just for the record, while I'm up on the soapbox, downloading makes you a criminal.

News Credits: 3 · by **Bartrim** » Mon May 07, 2007 11:53 pm

Ironhidensh wrote:
LuckytheWonderLlama wrote:I don't get it.

You people that consider yourselves Die-Hard fans of Transformers are acting like somebody raped your puppy and ran over it with a MoPed all because Prime has a mouth (or things are not done the way you think it should be).

Yet I consider myself a Die-Hard fan of Transformers and I don't care. I think all of the work that has been done on this film has been fantastic and it will be phenominal.

I've learned a long time ago that every single incarnation of Transformers is different from the one before it. It has... *gasp* Transformed!

Why are all of the nay-sayers being so intollerant of someone else's vision? I feel very respected as a fan by those that are producing this film. I look forward to seeing the latest evolution of the one of the greatest memories from my childhood.

Thank you Speilberg and Bay for going forward with your vision of Transformers. Maybe you will inspire others to do the same and make their own. If they have the testicular fortitude to stand up to the crap that you have had to deal with.

You aren't alone.

On the bright side, its no different than the fan reactions to any other "geek" property that has been transcribed on to film.

I have to be honest and say it. If you are letting something as small and unimportant as Prime having flames or lips, you are a pretty poor fan. That's just how I feel. Flames and lips have no effect whatsoever on the character of Prime. Its a very petty thing to throw a fit over. Common people, we need to learn from the past here.

Did organic web-shooters ruin Spider-man? No.

Did black leather outfits ruin X-men? No.

Will lips or flames ruin Transformers? No.

Just for the record, while I'm up on the soapbox, downloading makes you a criminal.

Well put my friend :APPLAUSE:

News Credits: 2 · by **Phategod1** » Tue May 08, 2007 12:07 am

D-340 wrote:
Phategod1 wrote:Up to page 20 The only thing disagree with Siebertron on Is seeing this movie. Please for the love of God dont support this movie If you don't like the direction its taking. Why on earth would you support this lesson in mediocrity? It's like saying I'll support you no matter what you shovel on my plate. I'm sorry but we can't Except this republican like support. Force The higher Ups to take a look at their profits and Losses and a make Mob Boss Valinquest pay. Oh and Orci while your Double Daring why dont you Double dare me to pay for it. I'm sorry but this is not Voting I dont have to pay to see it, to complain about it. whether I DL it sneak into it or wait for cable I might see it but be damned if I pay. Now the Videogame is a different story Depending on the reviews I MAY buy it but I'll probably at least rent it. Besides Someone owes me $19 bucks for sitting through LOXG.

Because he's a true TF fan. I will be supporting the film too. If it flops, rest assured Hasbro's gonna pull the plug cuz they won't see TF's as profitable anymore. And besides, how can you complain if you haven't seen it, some things may suck, but the whole may be ok, but then again you've made your choice. You'd rather see it all fail so you could say "I told ya so!", right?

I didn't have to see Batman & Robin to know it was a flop. If we (TF fans) pay to see to this and its profitable but not good that gives hollywood a excuse to churn out the same thing. Do you Buy every single thing with the Tf brand on it or do you pick and choose based on desire and quality. and after my nearly $600 in MP's in 3 months I think Hasbro Will survive loosing there share of My, yours, and all our $9.50's.

News Credits: 2 · by **Phategod1** » Tue May 08, 2007 12:10 am

And I prefer the term Licenced material Liberator to criminal. that or Pirate (makes me sound like have edge and I could Totally kick a ninjas ass.)

by **Candy Coated** » Tue May 08, 2007 12:12 am

Just for the record, while I'm up on the soapbox, downloading makes you a criminal.

Erm, Ironhidensh, I know where you're coming from, but may I ask you something?

Have you ever recorded a TV show or movie onto a blank tape? Or how about ripped a song from the radio? Because people always jump on the guys who download stuff, but downloading music and movies is the EXACT same as taking it from TV or the radio. You aren't giving money to the original makers, so therefore if you do either of those, you really don't have much room to talk...

Not trying to start a war or anything, but I had to get that off my chest...

And back on the subject of Prime's mouth, I don't think it would bother me so much if they were more like Primal's. Not only did he have part of the shield still there, but he didn't have lips. Sure some people may say Prime's mouth needs more detail because it's a movie, and I totally agree, but lips? I'm sorry, but it just looks absolutely tacky. Detail can be beautiful, but too much can become guady.

News Credits: 25 · by **Ironhidensh** » Tue May 08, 2007 12:34 am

Phategod1 wrote:And I prefer the term Licenced material Liberator to criminal. that or Pirate (makes me sound like have edge and I could Totally kick a ninjas ass.)

Woah, hold on there.

All else aside, there is no way in hell a pirate could kick a ninja's ass.

Unless he's Chuck Norris dressed up for Holloween.

News Credits: 409 · by **Stormrider** » Tue May 08, 2007 4:29 am

Funkmaster Fleximus wrote:I'm kind of indifferent to the whole mouth thing because to me its just a small piece of the larger issue; I don't think that the people behind this movie had any sort of real respect for the source material.
Bay has said that he didn't want to do anything that looked blocky because he felt it wouldn't look real. I'm an artist too, and I can sympathize with the need to express what you feel works, especially in film. But why change everything else? Why make everything else virtually unrecognizable??
I've worked in the animation industry, and yes, it is by no means an easy process to make a film. It is also extremely difficult to deal with such a popular franchise, and the decisions you make are bound to piss people off no matter how hard you try. The key is to stay as close to and respect the source material as much as possible. Peter Jackson has shown how to do this. Yes, lots of fans weren't happy with some of the changes he made. However, the love and dedication he put into staying as faithful to the book as possible are plain as day. There was no one set way for the characters visual appearances since the descriptions came from a narrative, but PJ stayed true to what was there; we knew who was who and what was what.
Transformers and LOTR are apples and oranges respectively, but where they meet is that they are franchises that have deeply touched and inspired millions. Transformers deserved the level of respect that was given to LOTR, but it hasn't gotten it because of people who take a derogatory attitude towards cartoons and toy franchises. The franchise was never cheesy, it had an engaging story that hooked people of all ages, and characters that were believable and compelling and powerfully symbollic. Superman might have had his blue and white energy suit, and Spidey his black costume...but like how long did any of those last? Especially when you take a look at the entire history of the characters and how people remember them today? You just can't f**k with an icon. Period.
Sure, the film isn't out yet, but when the audience already sees just how much you'ved f****d with their icons, you've already started a process of estrangement. You've already given people a reason not to like it because you're actions have shown that you're insensitive to what they love, no matter how much you say to the contrary.

Nicely said.

by **Tex Hex** » Tue May 08, 2007 10:06 am

Skowl wrote:Imagine this... It is the year 2005 and Christopher Nolan is about to release the first new Batman movie in years. We find out that Nolan has cast Gilbert Gottfried as Bruce Wayne and that Batman's costume is now hot pink with high heels and the Batmobile is now a UPS parcel delivery truck missing a wheel.

But nobody should complain, everybody should just be happy that they're getting a new Batman movie.

That'd be good if that comparison had any relevance to what I said. The changes to movie optimus are nowhere near that of an extreme. He is still red and blue, he still is a truck (granted not flat nosed, but considering the realism of transforming, long nose makes more sense), and he is still voiced by Cullen. He will still have a mask, but only in battle. This makes sense because it fits with the rest of the transformers because they all have mouths.

And yes, the robots do need to convey emotion because this is a live action movie. It is a whole different ball game from the cartoon. I'm pretty sure humans in real life have alot more movement on their face than humans in a cartoon do. Same goes for "robot life". If these robots aren't just uncompromising drones, and can feel, relate to and become friends with a human, feel the need to protect other life forms; they have feelings, a sense of right and wrong and free will. They need to be expressive of all that. And don't give me the Darth Vader crap because he didn't comvey any emotion at all except through voice. He always looked sad because that was how his mask was built.

But this post will probably get slammed because it was written by someone who's maturity level isn't still back in the 80's watching the cartoon on TV. Face it, you'll never have the pilot episode of G1 in live action. It will not happen. Ever. And unfortunately, that is the only thing that would make you babies happy.

News Credits: 4 · by **Milanion** » Tue May 08, 2007 10:47 am

Phategod1 wrote:
The Paragon of Virtue wrote:
Phategod1 wrote:Care to post a pics of this as a fellow Philadelphian I haven't seen a Flaming Semi in any of my travels.

Internet searches are your friend.

Truck with flames: http://www.signspecialist.com/stripes/semi/truck12.jpg

http://www.airbrushartists.org/Images/T ... miSide.jpg

And I thought I was cynical.

Thanks I had no Idea there were so many ricer trucks.

That aside, just cruise up I-95 or the Turnpike any given day. Or you can head down to the piers (follow Columbus Ave south past Show and Tell.) I saw a gray hopper with blue flames on 309 this morning - but I don't usually take photos while I'm driving

I'll keep an eye out for you though.

News Credits: 1 · by **Cheetron** » Tue May 08, 2007 11:19 am

Been offline for a while, new to this party.

It seems to me that a few weeks ago I read an article (and saw the news post on here) about how fans made the movie, or something like that. "without the fans, this movie could never have come this far" or some bull like that. And now they say "We changed everything so shut up fans." That's what makes me mad. Not the designs that they knew would piss fans off. Not the fact they lured everyone in with Mister Welker as Megs only to put in Agent "Elrond" Smith.

It's "we listen to you, now go piss off." It's expected but why give fans another reason not to spend $20 to see your movie?

by **Conceptron** » Tue May 08, 2007 11:22 am

You really think a guy like Bay would give a damn about what the fans think? He referred to this as a 'stupid toy movie' when first offered the contract.

News Credits: 3 · by **Emperor Galvatron** » Tue May 08, 2007 1:14 pm

Tex Hex wrote:That'd be good if that comparison had any relevance to what I said. The changes to movie optimus are nowhere near that of an extreme. He is still red and blue, he still is a truck (granted not flat nosed, but considering the realism of transforming, long nose makes more sense), and he is still voiced by Cullen. He will still have a mask, but only in battle. This makes sense because it fits with the rest of the transformers because they all have mouths.

And again, you're missing the point. It's not just Prime, it's not just Megatron, it's all the pieces. And, may I point out, that all of the TFs do not have mouths:
Bumblebee and Starscream do not have mouths.

Tex Hex wrote:And yes, the robots do need to convey emotion because this is a live action movie. It is a whole different ball game from the cartoon. I'm pretty sure humans in real life have alot more movement on their face than humans in a cartoon do. Same goes for "robot life". If these robots aren't just uncompromising drones, and can feel, relate to and become friends with a human, feel the need to protect other life forms; they have feelings, a sense of right and wrong and free will. They need to be expressive of all that. And don't give me the Darth Vader crap because he didn't comvey any emotion at all except through voice. He always looked sad because that was how his mask was built.

Vader was able to show considerable emotion through a combination of things: body language, lighting, background music, etc. And if this guy has less talent as a director than Lucas, then God help him anyway.

Tex Hex wrote:But this post will probably get slammed because it was written by someone who's maturity level isn't still back in the 80's watching the cartoon on TV. Face it, you'll never have the pilot episode of G1 in live action. It will not happen. Ever. And unfortunately, that is the only thing that would make you babies happy.

Unsuprisingly, your logical response is to end with a derogatory comment about anyone who disagrees with you. I find it amusing that the people who claim to be taking the 'high road' on this matter always fall back on name calling when someone has a different opinion, whether it be political or otherwise. It's also funny that the same people calling others 'babies' and 'stuck in the past' are also collectors and fans of a 20 year old toyline that is aimed at an audience of 5-10 year olds.

by **The Paragon of Virtue** » Tue May 08, 2007 4:37 pm

Candy Coated wrote:Have you ever recorded a TV show or movie onto a blank tape? Or how about ripped a song from the radio? Because people always jump on the guys who download stuff, but downloading music and movies is the EXACT same as taking it from TV or the radio. You aren't giving money to the original makers, so therefore if you do either of those, you really don't have much room to talk...

I was under the understanding that it's not illegal to tape things for your own purposes as long as you don't make copies with intent to distribute, which is what file sharing and downloading is.

edit: rephrase