The Energon Pub

grimlock or astrotrain

The minicons shouldnt count.
Deluxe Prime and Megs suck.
but the classics line is pretty good.
I'd say the only bad ones were walmart exclusives.
I don't like Prime, Megatron, Magnus, Grimlock and Astrotrain.
theyre great figures but not the best homages.
Out of all of those, I'd say Magnus.
Prime is pretty awesome and so is Megs.
Grimlock isnt really an improvement.
Same with Astrotrain.
Their G1 counterparts are equally great minus leg articulation
Bumblebee and Rodimus are way better then their G1 toys while GL and AT arent big improvements.
But theyre still pretty good toys.
Magnus is probably the biggest dissapointment.
He's a repaint, though I like his colors better than Prime's, but I don't like his alt mode and he doesnt have a trailer which doesnt make him Magnus. He's just white Prime.

But we all should know which toy is the best.
Jetfire.
with Bumblebee a close 2nd.
He's a great homage. He's a great toy. both modes rock. and he finally gets the face his G1 toy never had. plus a mask for people who want the face he had on his original toy.
Bumblebee is bigger and has got more articulation and a face.

Ok, I don't know why you'd EVER want a G1 toy compared to these.

G1 Prime is great! If, ya know, you only want to move his friggin elbows! Come on! G1 has almost NO ARTICULATION.

I do like G1 Soundwave though. He's an exception.

ragingtsunami726 wrote:Ok, I don't know why you'd EVER want a G1 toy compared to these.

G1 Prime is great! If, ya know, you only want to move his friggin elbows! Come on! G1 has almost NO ARTICULATION.

I do like G1 Soundwave though. He's an exception.

Yeah, but at least Prime's knees don't bend backwards

The biggest dissapointment I've had with the Classics line is the fact that they did'nt make enough copies of certain figures like Starscream, Bumblebee and Skywarp. Plus they should've made ALL of the seekers, not just 3.

thedistinctroom wrote:The biggest dissapointment I've had with the Classics line is the fact that they did'nt make enough copies of certain figures like Starscream, Bumblebee and Skywarp. Plus they should've made ALL of the seekers, not just 3.

Liege Evilmus wrote:The Minicons all the way around sucked more than minicons usualy do. But my biggest Classics letdown would have to be BotCon!

Sadly, they did

My biggest problems with this line are pretty much what everybody else has already said: paint on SS's head, Devastator not being all new molds (but at least we got A Devastator, right?) and Cliffjumper not getting a brand new head mold. Also, I've never quite understood why the LoC Perceptor and Trypticon colors where never applied to the full-sized molds?

We where given two Bumblebees and Jetfires, yet Hasbro decided not to repaint Cybertron Scourge and CD Red Alert because they didn't want to go into the ultra category for this line? Or where the Cyber Keys to big a problem to explain away (like they explained those in the Movie Basics sub-line and for Botcon Alpha Trion, Huffer, Springer and Weirdwolf anyway)? Heck, Whirl's toy would have been Voyager-sized and fit perfectly into this line.

I can understand them not wanting to repaint Cybertron Prime into Motormaster/Menasor, but come on! A lot of people wanted a full-sized Trypticon-from-Scourge the minute they saw the LoC when the first pics hit the net, so why not give them (and me )what they want? Or was this due to a shelfwarmer issue and/or the fact that Cryo Scourge had just been released?

Oh yeah, and the total lack of other Classics Dinobots for Grimlock to command. The Decepticons where given Devastator , but the 'Bots get only one Dinobot?! Ha! Watta ripoff. Good thing we'll be getting Classics 2.0 next year, tho'. Sunstreaker, Sideswipe and hopefully Wheeljack and the Datsun Brothers will be in there as well (Prowl, Blue/Silverstreak and Smokescreen.)

thedistinctroom wrote:The biggest dissapointment I've had with the Classics line is the fact that they did'nt make enough copies of certain figures like Starscream, Bumblebee and Skywarp. Plus they should've made ALL of the seekers, not just 3.

Add to that that they never made it past the border up North and my rant's complete.

But i Want A GALVATRON!!!!!!!!

Uh Relic, the legends are one thing, cause they suck anyway.

But the idea of taking a previous line and repainting it for an all new line is just bad. I mean it sucks when they do it as is, but the idea of doing repaints on a larger scale instead of new molds is an idea that Hasbro shouldn't have!

There are already 2 full sized Scourges, we don't need a third. What we do need though is a new full sized Trypticon

Liege Evilmus wrote:Uh Relic, the legends are one thing, cause they suck anyway.

But the idea of taking a previous line and repainting it for an all new line is just bad. I mean it sucks when they do it as is, but the idea of doing repaints on a larger scale instead of new molds is an idea that Hasbro shouldn't have!

There are already 2 full sized Scourges, we don't need a third. What we do need though is a new full sized Trypticon

True... Still, I'd have liked for Hasbro to make this happen. Yeah, it'd be the third repaint we'd have gotten, but not everybody has both Scourge and Cryo Scourge in their collection (I don't.) As filler for a future brand-spankin' new Trypticon mold. With lights! There has to be a light-up feature somewhere on that thing.

And as for repainting from one line from another, those aren't all bad. Look at Energon Ultra Magnus, BW/RiD Cryotek, Movie Elita-One, Armorhide and Strongarm. Not all of it's bad.

True, but fresh would be better. Also, I think the constant mold reuse takes away from the original figure.

Follow me here, when Energon first came out and we heard about finaly getting an Arcee. Everyone was happy. Granted there where tons of complaints about the design, but overall everyone was happy that the character finaly got some representation. Now, with all the rehashes, no one even looks in the molds direction anymore.

Rehashing a mold from a few years back in the Universe line is fine with me cause it gives everyone a chance to get a coolfigure that they may have missed out on.

But that right there is it, give us a chance to miss it!

I do agree with you very strongly on one point though, we need a new Trypticon, and it must have awesome electric features!

Biggest Disappointment: Botcon.

Think about it for a moment: for a company that "prides" itself on milking every mold for all it's worth (Universe, the Energon repaints of Armada molds, the Cybertron repaints/retools of Armada & Energon molds, etc. etc.) for them to intentionally bypass the option of milking the SS/Rammy mold for 6 popularly clamored for repaints/retools (remember the statements where Hasbro claimed there was never any plans to do TC, Thrust & Dirge until Botcon came along and offered their usual decent share of the convention exclusiveness profit), knowing by then there was a chance they'd go Classics V2 or wedge them in as Universe/Animated toys (see above for proof of history of that or look on the shelves now at the "Allspark" line)...

Sledge wrote:Grimlock. Nothing to do with assembly problems or anything like that, he just didn't have the bulk Grimlock should have. Really, he should have been a Voyager, not a Deluxe. His T-Rex mode looks more like a velociraptor or something. A ferocious killer, sure, but too fast and nimble for Grimlock.

I think you have to take something into account here. First, what we thought we knew about T-REx's back in the 80's. Thats why Grimlock looks the way he does.

look at how we think of the T-Rex nowadays, and its more inline with the current classics look for grimlock. Remember, these are supposed to be updated remakes. Not reissues.

And as for let downs, a real cliffjumper, Astrotrain being so small, and Magnus being a straight repaint instead of a real remake.

The main difference, at least as I understand it, is that it is now believed T-Rex didn't walk in the upright "tripod" look G1 Grimlock did. That doesn't explain the lack of bulk Classics Grimlock has. The figure is simply too small for a character that's supposed to be immensely big and strong (moreso than Optimus Prime). It doesn't capture anything of the character, and pales next to the G1 toy.

I simply don't see any other Classics figure as being so much of a letdown. Yes, a different head on Cliffjumper would have been nice, but it's still something a little kitbashing can fix. Why should Astrotrain have been bigger? His original toy was hardly immense. And the Magnus thing... meh. It was a better repaint than MP Prime into Magnus, and aren't Hasbro talking about a new Magnus mold for Classics 2.0/Universe?

Biggest let down for me remains Grimlock, followed by the Botcon idiocy. Everything else is minor: Jetfire's posing problems, Cliffjumper's smile, etc.

Sledge wrote:Biggest let down for me remains Grimlock, followed by the Botcon idiocy. Everything else is minor: Jetfire's posing problems, Cliffjumper's smile, etc.

i thought you had BotCon sets, Sledge?

Toyotus Superion wrote:

Sledge wrote:Grimlock. Nothing to do with assembly problems or anything like that, he just didn't have the bulk Grimlock should have. Really, he should have been a Voyager, not a Deluxe. His T-Rex mode looks more like a velociraptor or something. A ferocious killer, sure, but too fast and nimble for Grimlock.

I think you have to take something into account here. First, what we thought we knew about T-REx's back in the 80's. Thats why Grimlock looks the way he does.

look at how we think of the T-Rex nowadays, and its more inline with the current classics look for grimlock. Remember, these are supposed to be updated remakes. Not reissues.

And as for let downs, a real cliffjumper, Astrotrain being so small, and Magnus being a straight repaint instead of a real remake.

Funny thing about G1 Grimlock, with the 360degree rotation of his dino legs, and the hinge on his dino head, you can pose him as science now believes the actual T-Rex stood

Also, what I don't like about Grimlock is the legs, at least on mine they keep poping off!

Oh and the tail whip is to BW TM Megatron for me.

How many classics and I'm talking actual figures did they have on the shelves that were made for the popular characters?

Lets see:
Astrotrain
Cliffjumper (repaint of Bumblebee)
Grimlock
Bumblebee
Jetfire
Voyager Optimus Prime
Voyager Megatron
Mirage
Starscream (and his remold to fix problems with the first batch)
Skywarp
Rodimus
Ramjet
Ultra Magnus

those figures I consider worthy of mentioning..the minicons and Devestator aren't spectacular..

So lets see what they released in Botcon, that could have replaced some of the more crummy figures we got in a normal release from Hasbro, and I'm not talking about the minicons.. just figures we could have done without and replaced by the Botcon exclusives in stores:

Bugbite, that would have made a good choice for another repaint on the Bumbelbee mold..instead of Menasor

Huffer would have been a better choice then the Leo Prime figure we got..

Thundercracker would have been nice, Thrust, and Dirge would have been a better release then the Devestator..


Now that is what..5 figures we could have got, and didn't... that's pretty much a big amount of characters that eneded up in the Botcon stuff.. and I left out intentionally the Springer, Wierd Wolf, and the Dreadwing reapaints.. they aren't that special.. though dread wing would have made a nice addition to the mass retail line up..

if you add up the Botcon repaints and look at the minicons and other repaints we could have done without in the classics line up, you will see why the Botcon stuff really made people have a sour after taste with their classics collection, especially those who weren't able to attend..

I have not bought any classics as of yet, because I will not buy them from Hasbro.. I like them, but I'm not supporting the Hasbro money machine, in this case..I will however buy them from Takara Tomy and import them at a higher price then the classics were sold here.. for 2 reasons..

1. better paint applications
2. on principle, because of the Botcon crap..and they will be in better packaging..

I will support them if they decided to give us a Thundercracker and a Dirge, and Thrust figure..I am hoping Takara takes care of their citizens..

Bun-Bun wrote:Also what is all this I hear about Grimlock assembly problems?

From the pack his upper robot mode arms and shoulder covers are on backwards and the neck tabs don't lock in place. Here's the fix that I posted in another thread recently, with credit to the guy who put together the original tutorial.

waaaaghlord wrote:

bionic_radical wrote:how do you pop them and switch them? is there a link somewhere?

When I did mine I followed a basic tutorial by 1987olds442 at Transtopia. I've just found it again and although the pictures are no longer up here's the instructions.

Shoulders
1. I unscrewed the the two screws in the back of the upper torso.
2. Take the srews out of the shoulders.
3. Remove Shoulder covers & slide arms off.
4. Knock out the pins that hold the shoulders in place.
5. Swap the should base assemblies.
6. Swap the upper arm pieces.
7. Re-assemble.

Neck

The black tabs are easy, but also a pain..

1. Knock the pin out of the back piece then remove.
2. Knock the pins out of the tabs (the pain part).
3. Swap tabs.
4. Re-assemble.

I'll post some pictures of mine shortly to give you an idea how it comes out.

edit -

robot mode


close up on shoulders


rear view


dino mode, note that the screws will now be forward facing in this mode


A few points to note. The screws on this sucker are REALLY tight, if you take a crack at this be careful not to gouge the heads. I did end up scarring the plastic around the screws slightly when I had to switch to a larger than ideal screwdriver for better purchase, take care. You can't just swap the shoulder covers as each side is matched to the upper arm assembly beneath so you do need to do a full tear down of the upper arms.

ragingtsunami726 wrote:My biggest issue? I want a bigger Astrotrain. His glory cannot be found in a deluxe. I want a Voyager...

Or bigger

This one big enough for you?

omglol121 wrote:But i Want A GALVATRON!!!!!!!!

In about 4 months time, we'll have one.

Regarding the complaints about Astrotrain, my biggest problem with the figure -- and the reason that I left it on the shelf -- wasn't the size of it, but rather that it didn't come in the animation's grey and purple color scheme!

I was also a bit miffed by the bullet train mode, as quite frankly my favorite Astrotrain transformation is the old school locomotive. That was also one of the main reasons I decided to pass on the TF Collectors' Club exclusive figure (which, for those of you clamoring for a larger Astrotrain, is worth a look). You can find shuttleformers aplenty (especially among knockoffs, if that's your thing!), but locomotive Transformers are pretty rare outside of Sixtrain's components.

Granted, I probably wouldn't have been willing to pay the $100 for that TFCC exclusive Astrotrain anyway, but I might've considered it if he'd been an actual triple changer or -- at the very least -- had the locomotive mode.

Wes Crayon wrote:Regarding the complaints about Astrotrain, my biggest problem with the figure -- and the reason that I left it on the shelf -- wasn't the size of it, but rather that it didn't come in the animation's grey and purple color scheme!

I was also a bit miffed by the bullet train mode, as quite frankly my favorite Astrotrain transformation is the old school locomotive. That was also one of the main reasons I decided to pass on the TF Collectors' Club exclusive figure (which, for those of you clamoring for a larger Astrotrain, is worth a look). You can find shuttleformers aplenty (especially among knockoffs, if that's your thing!), but locomotive Transformers are pretty rare outside of Sixtrain's components.

Granted, I probably wouldn't have been willing to pay the $100 for that TFCC exclusive Astrotrain anyway, but I might've considered it if he'd been an actual triple changer or -- at the very least -- had the locomotive mode.

Interesting. My favorite Classics figure, hands down, is Astrotrain.

waaaaghlord wrote:

Bun-Bun wrote:

ragingtsunami726 wrote:My biggest issue? I want a bigger Astrotrain. His glory cannot be found in a deluxe. I want a Voyager...

Or bigger

This one big enough for you?

YES! That's perfect! Where did you get such an awesome KO?

The colors on Megatron.
Grimlock's feet.
The lack of paint on Starscreams face.

Everything they said.


Seibertron still rocks.