The Energon Pub

Oddly, even as a kid Groove being the size of a car or helicopter bothered me a lot, yet a helicopter, jeep, tank, and space shuttle being the same size was totally cool. Weird.

NuclearConvoy wrote:Oddly, even as a kid Groove being the size of a car or helicopter bothered me a lot, yet a helicopter, jeep, tank, and space shuttle being the same size was totally cool. Weird.

Evidently, this is precisely the kind of kid scale logic Hasbro had in mind when choosing to make Groove smaller.

To a kid, vehicles meant to hold one person at a time are smaller than vehicles meant to hold multiple people at a time, but the vehicles of that latter category can all be the same size regardless of how differently-sized they are in real life (i.e. - a space shuttle vs. a Jeep)

Sabrblade wrote:

NuclearConvoy wrote:Oddly, even as a kid Groove being the size of a car or helicopter bothered me a lot, yet a helicopter, jeep, tank, and space shuttle being the same size was totally cool. Weird.

Evidently, this is precisely the kind of kid scale logic Hasbro had in mind when choosing to make Groove smaller.

To a kid, vehicles meant to hold one person at a time are smaller than vehicles meant to hold multiple people at a time, but the vehicles of that latter category can all be the same size regardless of how differently-sized they are in real life (i.e. - a space shuttle vs. a Jeep)

In general I agree with you here, except the reasoning falters with those pesky single seat jets...

When talking G1 cartoon scale, the biggest debate is which matters more...vehicle scale or robot scale ? You cant have both...

I care more about the scale of the robots. I want them to be more or less the same way they were in the cartoon when then interacted with each other. Of course there are a few exceptions with that geared towards my personal tastes, mostly involving mini-bots and faction commanders. But I dont give a crap about how their alt modes scale with real life vehicles. I don't collect Tonka trucks, I collect transformable robots. Thats why Im so against CW Devastator. Hasbro sacrificed the robot scales to make the construction vehicles scale properly with deluxe cars. Who displays Transformers in alt mode ? For that go collect dicast cars...

And I am a staunch supporter of the concept of "mass shifting". I see it as a weird alien technology that transformers use and I don't care why they use it. People need to let all that pondering go and just enjoy the cartoon.

At that point you might as well just collect non-transforming robots.

william-james88 wrote:I dont know if I am reading everything correctly, but the vibe I get is that scale doesnt matter and thus there was no use for Groove to not be a leg. Is that right? I dont mind Rook at all (he could have been released as part of a fully new combiner figure), but it seems no one cares that Hasbro's excuse for Groove being a legends figure is that they care about scale, all of a sudden.

Scale is virtually impossible and not everyone will actually like a toy whether it is correct or not. Now to me, scale is somewhat important. I like that Groove looks normal sized compared to the others, and Honestly I like him more as a legends chest plate than as takaras limb. Now others, such as Superion and the RiD Team Bee, I don't really care for the scale too much. It works to me. The only one I'm going in scale with is Fixit, and that's cuz I need more minis

Sabrblade wrote:

NuclearConvoy wrote:Oddly, even as a kid Groove being the size of a car or helicopter bothered me a lot, yet a helicopter, jeep, tank, and space shuttle being the same size was totally cool. Weird.

Evidently, this is precisely the kind of kid scale logic Hasbro had in mind when choosing to make Groove smaller.

To a kid, vehicles meant to hold one person at a time are smaller than vehicles meant to hold multiple people at a time, but the vehicles of that latter category can all be the same size regardless of how differently-sized they are in real life (i.e. - a space shuttle vs. a Jeep)

Yay! I contributed something useful!

NuclearConvoy wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

NuclearConvoy wrote:Oddly, even as a kid Groove being the size of a car or helicopter bothered me a lot, yet a helicopter, jeep, tank, and space shuttle being the same size was totally cool. Weird.

Evidently, this is precisely the kind of kid scale logic Hasbro had in mind when choosing to make Groove smaller.

To a kid, vehicles meant to hold one person at a time are smaller than vehicles meant to hold multiple people at a time, but the vehicles of that latter category can all be the same size regardless of how differently-sized they are in real life (i.e. - a space shuttle vs. a Jeep)

Yay! I contributed something useful!

It's true - some of the mass shifting was just easier to swallow than others Even I winked at a Space shuttle turning into an 'arm' sized attachment to a missile trailer in Bruticus. I laughed at ALL the Cons fitting inside Astrotrain in the 85 movie, but didn't make much of a fuss over it. And I thought it merely an odd paradox that broadside turns from an aircraft carrier INTO a jet...

Wizard!

Delta Magnus wrote:At that point you might as well just collect non-transforming robots.

And you might as well collect Dub City diecast cars. You cant have you cake and eat it too. Robot scale should always take preference over vehicle scale in my opinion. As I said before, who displays their collection in alt modes ?

Rated X wrote:

Delta Magnus wrote:At that point you might as well just collect non-transforming robots.

And you might as well collect Dub City diecast cars. You cant have you cake and eat it too. Robot scale should always take preference over vehicle scale in my opinion. As I said before, who displays their collection in alt modes ?

Some people do.

For example, I used to display my Alternators in vehicle mode because A) the altmode were so good looking (arguably nicer than their robot modes), and B) I didn't have enough space to display them in robot mode at the time since I needed all other spaces for other things more important than toys.

They aren't on display anymore at the moment (but now that I think of it they really ought to be).

However, if altmodes are to be so far removed from the equation, what's the point of the figures even having altmodes at that point?

Rated X wrote:As I said before, who displays their collection in alt modes ?

I do! Sometimes, that is. They're Transformers. I feel half the fun of owning them is, well, transforming them. Usually everything on a shelf is all in one mode, but once in a while I'll change what mode they are in.

In fact, I've been having a desire lately to transform my Decepticon gestalts (currently in individual robot modes) into vehicle mode. (I wonder if I am the only person who actually enjoys transforming the Fansproject Stunticons?)

That being said, Rated X, I will agree that if I had to choose a mode to base scale off of, I'd go with robot mode. In my Decepticons, I have many Classics Seekers, and I have a Music Label Soundwave. They're the perfect height together as robots, but in alt mode that is either one gigantic cassette player, or some tiny jets. But I'd rather have that then have, say, a Smallest Transforming Transformers Soundwave on a shelf with Leader Class Seekers. (Which would still not be to scale, but it would be a hell of a lot closer!) Scale in robot mode is never going to be perfect across the board in a collection, but scale in alt mode between different Transformers will never make sense.

carytheone wrote:I'm going to steal a line from shajaki: I like motorcycle robits.

On that note...

shajaki wrote:

carytheone wrote:I'm going to steal a line from shajaki: I like motorcycle robits.

I admit, they've made some great motorcycle figures recently. TFA Prowl, Generations Wreck-gar, TF Prime Arcee - all superb.

Incidentally, Legends Groove (wave 3 combiner wars) is still available at Hasbrotoyshop.com....

http://www.hasbrotoyshop.com/tra-gen-le ... 6&ID=33951

In fact, many of the wave2 figures are available too. Sadly, Motormaster, Quicksling, Viper and many of the other rare ones are sold out. Given how fast many of the other figures have sold out, I'm surprised Groove hasn't gone 'out of stock' yet...

NuclearConvoy wrote:Oddly, even as a kid Groove being the size of a car or helicopter bothered me a lot, yet a helicopter, jeep, tank, and space shuttle being the same size was totally cool. Weird.

It's our limbic system that's doing it.

I'll add my opinion to the consensus that scaling your collection by robot mode is the way to go, even if it makes for tiny cars (Bumblebee, Cliffjumper, etc.), tiny planes and tanks (Powerglide, Warpath, etc.) or humongous motorcycles (take your pick). My display is always in robot mode, though when I want to play with any particular figure and transform it to alt-mode, I'll transform it back to robot mode before placing back on the shelf. To me, the character is the robot, not the alt-mode. That's just a fun feature of play that adds to the value of the figure. The alt-mode for me is never the main draw of any figure, but it's nonetheless expected to be there to qualify as a Transformer.

It's also for this reason that I like to get duplicates of the combiner teams, so I can have them simultaneously displayed as the individual team members and still represent the "sixth man (or seventh in Devy's case)" of the squad, the gestalt.

It's a hot topic today, so lets talk here

What are your views? Personally I was never bothered by scale when watching the cartoon as a kid, more animation errors than anything. My main reasoning for ignoring scale was "mass shifting".

I could be totally wrong as its been a while, but i think the Dreamwave comics had a neat spin on mass shifting, in that it took a great deal of energy to preform.

Also as personal cannon, I always liked the idea that G1 Megatron for example was more powerful in Gun mode, reasoning that he's using his entire body to power the shots as apposed to the blasts coming from just his arm cannon in bot mode. Cause if there's no advantage to that transformation then why do it right?

Don't care about the scale. If I like a figure, it goes in the collection.

And it goes in, like this.

Once again, a kitty shows us the way

Well I don't think you can start this topic without this disclaimer first

I kid of course.

To me scale isn't that important. But I do enjoy when the robot modes scale well. For example I picked up the most recent legends Bee just to stand next to WFC Optimus.

As far as alt-modes go, I think its pretty unrealistic to expect decent scaling.

Theres really only one scale issue that actually bugs me:

Generation 1
A brick in three modes.
Broadside (Triple Changer, 1986)
Accessories: Plasma pulse gun, Vibro-axe, 2 missiles

Broadside is the most blatantly out-of-scale Transformer ever. He transforms into an aircraft carrier and a rather unconvincing, apparently aircraft-carrier-sized jet fighter. He carries a rifle and a (comparably) small axe as weapons in robot mode. Two non-firing missiles attach to his wings in jet mode.

"Broadside is a huge loser. He's the forgotten Autobot Triple Changer who turns into either a tiny aircraft carrier and a jet, or an impossibly large "jet" and an aircraft carrier. Broadside also happens to be terrified of heights. And gets seasick on the water.

His life must suuuuuuck.

Fortunately, as one of the Wreckers, Broadside is almost constantly shooting the slag out of Decepticons, which is probably a good outlet for any frustration."

If it's a toy I like; I'll buy it. Do I like some characters to have a scale yes(?) maybe(?). There is no scale for vehicles, obviously because well, nothing scales as toys. However I like a relative scale between the figure aspects of transformers; generally I like some characters bigger or small than others. For example I generally like say bumblebee to be "smaller" than say Jazz or Arrrrn-hahhhd. I generally like combiners, as the gestalt, to be bigger than most "average" figures; scoutish, deluxe, or voyager. And I generally like "leader" figures to be relatively larger to their contemporaries. So Do I like scale? Sorta in a relative sense; but if it's a toy I like, i'll still buy it.

shajaki wrote:Theres really only one scale issue that actually bugs me:

Where did you grab that snippet? It seems a little sarcastic, too much even for the TF Wiki.

Also, that is some sick art.

EDIT: NVM, just answered my own question. From the TF Wiki.

Broadside is a great jumping off point on this discussion. What "should" a Classics update of Broadside look like? Would you rather a faithful G1 homage making him a triple changer with jet and aircraft carrier alt modes? Or would you prefer instead a triple changer with update alt modes that make more sense in terms of scale, kind of like how the recent Generations Springer is an armored car instead of a "tank" like vehicle in addition to his helicopter mode? Perhaps Broadside could pick ONE alt mode this time and forgo the triple changer gimmick altogether, giving us a huge aircraft carrier alt mode, or a modest jet alt mode, instead of having to worry about scaling to different alt modes with one another?

SW's SilverHammer wrote:If it's a toy I like; I'll buy it.

I'm pretty much the same way. I said recently (somewhere I don't remember) that MT Mania King looks amazing, but scales with nothing. But it didn't stop me from getting one. Classics/Henkei Galvatron still commands my C/G Unicron spawns, while MK stands elsewhere looking pretty

Wolfman Jake wrote:Broadside is a great jumping off point on this discussion. What "should" a Classics update of Broadside look like? Would you rather a faithful G1 homage making him a triple changer with jet and aircraft carrier alt modes? Or would you prefer instead a triple changer with update alt modes that make more sense in terms of scale, kind of like how the recent Generations Springer is an armored car instead of a "tank" like vehicle in addition to his helicopter mode? Perhaps Broadside could pick ONE alt mode this time and forgo the triple changer gimmick altogether, giving us a huge aircraft carrier alt mode, or a modest jet alt mode, instead of having to worry about scaling to different alt modes with one another?

I just today jokingly suggested making a USS Flag sized Broadside. Omega Class?

Probably the most unrealistic scaled figure to shoot for is Unicron, or is that just to obvious?