No company in the world is going to keep selling G1 Ironhide for 25 years when the potential exists for new toys and thereby a new set of purchases.
Thats not entirely accurate. There's been plenty of retools, redecos and reissues of existing characters over the years. Hasbros made it an art of getting us to rebuy same characters as many times as they can heh. (just look at all different Primes and Jetfires.) Even with in the same series theres plenty of different editions of the same characters. Sure they make plenty of newbies to collect, but just goes back whole relevancy thing. They need keep enough of the original frame work to keep it from being transformers only in name.
The 07/09 movies are trading against the background of an already established fanbase, as well as a new and growing or re-interested one. If that were not the case, then there'd be no need of naming any characters the same names that they had 25 years ago. Prime didn't have to be Optimus or Rodimus Prime, they could have made it Any-name-you-want Prime, and it would have worked for new fans who were just coming to the brand.
The same could be said of every single reboot of transformers. I mean they didn't have name Optimus Prime and Megatron in the , Beast wars era, unicron trilogy or RiD. They've made it a continual thing to reuse names requently. From a story stand point of it being a multiverse, it makes alot of sense. Like if you have this collection of souls (or sparks in this case) and they re all connected by this cosmic conciousness, that thnigs would regularly respawn in other universe bearing simliar names, but not always simliar forms.
From a marketing stand point it just helps fans jump right in on the basics. I mean they could made all the transformers stories in a single universe since G1. And every new series was just another era, and new leaders and none of the names repeated beyond references and cameos. (basically what Star trek has done up till the newest movie reboot.)
I've seen attempts in comics pass mantles, and majority of them seem end in failure, as the original character seems always come back in some form. (particularly in case of heroes.) So transformers probably has the right idea keeping key members around between it's series and reventions. They re iconic, and remain Iconic. They always manage pop in some new faces that leave a lasting impression though. (like Barricade and Blackout will likely reference their movie incarnations in future appearances in some way, both of them are my amoung my favorite new decepticons of the movie verse.) You have to have a happy medium of new and old.
Personally, I think they did shoe horn in the Matrix to the 09 movie. It felt like a reach to include something else for the old fans or the G1ers or fanboys or whatever. When people complained about the Allspark from the 07 film, would it not have been possible for the writers to sit there and say 'well, we tried to change something, so let's look at the old show and find something retro to include to try and make people happy this time'? Could have been, but just personally, I felt like they kinda pressed it in there a little roughly. Now, in my defence, I only saw the movie once, so maybe I'm mistaken, so you know, have some mercy there.
They might opted to pick the name Matrix of leadership directly because of the original name. But with in the context of the movie it being named that made sense. It wasn't just same pointless crowbarring of the name just to name drop it for older fans. It was the key to a potential doomsday device for a planet. It made sense for only those who were primes or had their approval could use it.
In wrong hands it was dangerous,(any sword can be made into a plowshare or vice versa with enough creativy.) even it's ability revive transformers is bad news if the decepticons could use it to necromancy their ranks back to full. Thats a device that can litterally deem life or death to beings across the universe. I wouldn't want that sort of device in hands of random humans to go around abusing it all willy nilly if we had an artifact that had simliar results for our race.
Just because it was different doesn't mean it was poor use of the name.(I mean by that logic every time they reused a character name and made them different they be default suckage, which Movie Jetfire kicks aft!.) Honestly what did the original Matrix even do besides plot device victory once in awhile. I felt the Matrix of leadership underminded the potential leaders abilties as an individual. Like Before optimus Prime was a bad ass because he was Prime.(Like hwo animated Prime believed in himself and rose in the ranks. He was a hero because he believed he was.) Now like oh he's a bad ass because he has a the matrix and thats why he's leader. So basically any goofball who happens get choosen by it is good enough. (I mean just look at what a screw up Hotrod was.) I prefer prime or whoever leads by their own merits as they are masters of their own destiny. The artifacts don't make it for them. I prefer the matrix being an artifact used by primes than a device that makes them.
I cut the whole thing about your nephew and niece, and I do think that's a beautiful story for sure. I'm just trying to keep this post from taking up an entire computer screen, so you know, no disrespect.
I don't take as disrespect if you trim what you quote. I just view as people being sensible if they only quote the most relevant parts of my posts. Which I'm glad you liked my story heh. In general I dont take anything you've stated as hostile.
Again, it's just preference at the end of the day, but the 86 movie capitalised on something that was popular at the time, while the new movies are/were relying a whole lot on the nostalgia factor to generate enthusiam for them, at least initially.
I think the idea of just giant transforming giant robots beating heck out of each other is pretty slagging timeless heh. The nostaglia helps to a point, but after a point the series has stand or fall on it's own merits. (plenty of people complained up a storm when beast wars came out and it managed prove them wrong.) So far it seems be standing quite well.
For me, it's all about robots when I want robot-centered entertainment,
Yeah but you really think this movie could existed as a live action film without having as much human interaction as it did? I personally feel the human side of things (jokes withstanding) actually gave alot more intellgience and sensibly to the series. Does it change stuff up, yeah, but I feel was a much needed change thats been ignore for too long. If giant transforming giant robots decide have a civil war on our front lawn I think makes sense for humans been heavily involved in the story. it's our freaking planet heh.
It's robots in disguise, and well honestly the whole disguise angle been played up in the movies far more than it's been used in the past. The notion of a invisible and dangerous enemy that can be anywhere with a powerful weapon system is actually rather scary when you think about it. First strike and stealth are incredibly potent in real war. Which outside of the final battles in both films, the Decepticons are usually trying be "deceptive" and use information and misdirection to their advantage rather than have a straight up war with the humans and autobots combined.(the moment they do that they start playing to the human coaltion's strengths as they can organize and amasse) It's much more plausible that some alien threat could use stealth and superior technology pick us apart in a hidden hit and run campaign than stand up to us head on and we're be utterless useless against them.
I suppose seeing these movies from point of view of some who was actually in the armed forces changes my view. I see all realistic touches that make much more sense in context of knowing how they operate. Alot of what happens makes sense to me. The people involved in these films truly did their homework.(or are actually in the service alot of times since it's great adverstisement)
Im not saying the bot backstory doesn't need get brought up further. (Bay himself even said he wants to dive deeper into the transformer mythos.) But they re easing us into that. Between the budget and audience it hasnt been a bad choice. (which Hollywood probably doesn't have a budget big enough make the transformers movie thats in my head, but thats likely case for most fans.)
Honestly, that makes the 07/09 movies worth it to me, that somebody got to share time and a thing with people who are important to them, even though I don't know you, it warms my heart to hear that.
Well I think that's the bigger picture here. We the original fans could probably gotten by rewatching the old episodes till end of time and been content. Like comics, we need new fans for it to last. I am glad new stuff has come out for the new fans. If something new comes out, then I just say hold on till next phase comes out. May be that batch will suit your tastes better. The original stuff still there if thats what you need. Nothing new will ever take that away. (Konomi made Legacy of war, which horribly sucked, but all good contras still exist which i go back and play to this day.)
I remember seeing another poster mentioning something simliar about his kids on a different thread. (I probably could look thru the threads find posters name, but guy with the sig If I was evil giant transforming robot, I know what I'd transform into, and shows his dodge.) His kids get a kick out of his transformer stuff he put on his car. Because of the new movies they get why he likes it. (speaking of cars theres a cute girl who drives a newer red mustang with black racing stripes that comes by my work every so often, she has autobot decals on it, and says the autobot edition on her car. I have a girl friend already, but I always smile when I see her drive by. We definitely need more fans like that hehe.) its definitely cool see world share in somethnig I love.
By the by, I think this is turning out to be a good discussion. Thanks!
Thanks to you and every one discussing it. I know my Citybot sized posts deter people at times hehe. It's nice know people are actually reading them and giving feedback of sorts. I hate to waste a good rant hehe.
Mainstream liking something does not mean that it is good.
Being some horribly obsure thing only a handful of people follow that falls off the face of the earth due lack of funding is worse. In general means more oportunity for something you like to carry on and may be find it's own voice and become truly awesome. Sure numbers are never an indicator of quality, but they are an indicator of longevity. Selling out is still selling.
"The question that once haunted my being has been answered. The future is not fixed, and my choices are my own. And yet, how ironic...for I now find that I have no choice at all! I am a warrior...let the battle be joined." —Dinobot
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