The Energon Pub

More of what we've already got. I pine for more characterisation. If I had to add new ones it would be Sunstreaker (because I'm fond of that pretentious, whinyfaced douchebag) and Wheeljack (because I'm sure Ratchet misses his BFF). Oh, and Prowl.

For Decepticons we can have a whole bunch more since the rest, bar Megatron, Starscream and Soundwave, seemed to get immolated in Michael Bay's "biggest explosion ever filmed". I'd like to see Shockwave, but only if he retains his snazzy purple paintjob.

More jets - lets give those F-22's in the final scene more than 2 seconds of film.

Give Ratchet more lines!
Less humans. It's a movie called 'Transformers', not 'goofy, crying humans'.

I want Sunstreaker! Give us the real Twins!
Mirage would be a nice addition. Show us more than Alternator Prowl clones. Stunticons would be cool - maybe some Aerialbots since we see a lot of military jets in the movies.

Unicron

We must see more combiners/gestalts, Laserbeak, Shockwave, Grimlock (not as a Dinobot though), and Ultra Magnus just as a start!

Just increase the budget, maybe double it. Then we have the whole movie about transformers and do away the human.
By then all your wishes will be fulfill.

Real Devastator wrote:Just increase the budget, maybe double it. Then we have the whole movie about transformers and do away the human.
By then all your wishes will be fulfill.

Wow, were you the first one to come up with that idea?#-o I mean it seems so logical........but this is Hollywood man! Hate to be the heartbreaker man, but you'd really think that a bunch of L.A. hotshots(M. Bay and his writers) would actually put no humans in? Sure I would like your idea, but these movies are for the general audience( which Michael Bay has announced many times). Just take the TF movies as it is, fun movies. And just stop with the almost identical story to G1. If it was like G1, it would just be the same story but with better graphics on screen... and that would be boring.
P.S. This is not directly to Real Devastator. Please don't take this offensive, I'm just talking to all the people who want it to have the same old exact characters to the G1 cartoons.

But enough about me criticizing. Who or what would I like to see in TF3.......

1. Character Development/Screen Time: Introducing the new autobots would be a nice start. Something that ROTF didn't have too much of. Make the Decepticons have a personality rather than to put a million no-name wannabe Transformers in. Make almost all the Transformers to have a least 3 lines that defines who they are. I especially want more Sideswipe, all he says is "Damn I'm good", which he is, but I know almost nothing about him from the movie.
2. Mirage, Scourge, and new Decpticons: Since the Con clone army was a wasted, hopefully new Decpticons(with personality) come in to help Megatron. Make Barricade come back! He's been doing nothing since the fall of 2007. Or at least just give us a death scene of Barricade.
3. Make all the auotbots known, then I guess its alright to add more: Ultra Magnus and Prowl would be cool. I could see Ultra Magnus being an awesome character. Prowl could be police car. He could have good cop vs. bad cop fight with Barricade.
4. Since this is Hollywood, please no more main human characters. Leo was one too many. Just have cool humans. Sam, Mikela, The two Nest leaders, and maybe John Tutorro would do the trick. just don't put too many. Also, Since there has to be a love thing going on, just make Sam's and Mikela's relationship legit. Don't force it like ROTF did. Just make it happen.
5. And Balance the movie to have a good plot and the same amount of action so the next movie can blow our minds away. i know this seems far fetchd', but i hope the next one will really leave us speechless(in a positive way). I know money is going to be an issue, but just make it happen. Make a 3 hours if needed( nothing boring though).
I'm done for now.

T-man5000 wrote:

Real Devastator wrote:Just increase the budget, maybe double it. Then we have the whole movie about transformers and do away the human.
By then all your wishes will be fulfill.

Wow, were you the first one to come up with that idea?#-o I mean it seems so logical........but this is Hollywood man! Hate to be the heartbreaker man, but you'd really think that a bunch of L.A. hotshots(M. Bay and his writers) would actually put no humans in? Sure I would like your idea, but these movies are for the general audience( which Michael Bay has announced many times). Just take the TF movies as it is, fun movies. And just stop with the almost identical story to G1. If it was like G1, it would just be the same story but with better graphics on screen... and that would be boring.
P.S. This is not directly to Real Devastator. Please don't take this offensive, I'm just talking to all the people who want it to have the same old exact characters to the G1 cartoons.

Nah, dont worry about that, i dont feel offended or what....
Well i know is just a dream. As we can imagine the cost of doing it with just robots as main cast, and robots telling us the storyline/plot.....

I dont think TF is all about G1. Although many later TF series paid tribute to G1. I agree that movies are not G1 as well, but we cant deny that people got nostalgia feeling towards TF G1. Design robots with making reference to G1 plus whatever needed in order it look like modern alien/robot, I guess that will make a lot TF fans happy, yet dont compromise general audience expectation.

Cyberjet #7 wrote:You can't really tell me they were trying to harken back to G1 with this one...

That's exactly what I'm telling you.

You're just summarily dismissing the G1 elements I brought up because those things don't fit neatly into your argument.

All of the points I referenced are clearly established G1 characters or attributes. You say they aren't good enough or they don't count. There's nothing more to discuss.

You're just wrong.

I’m not saying they couldn’t do more G1 referencing (though I think they shouldn’t), but you’re flat out wrong in dismissing those character/plot elements.

well we got starscream, we cant neglect thundercracker and skywarp. I think maybe a redesigned, better looking starscream is in order. I think he looks like a retarted grasshopper.

Counterpunch wrote:

Cyberjet #7 wrote:You can't really tell me they were trying to harken back to G1 with this one...

That's exactly what I'm telling you.

You're just summarily dismissing the G1 elements I brought up because those things don't fit neatly into your argument.

All of the points I referenced are clearly established G1 characters or attributes. You say they aren't good enough or they don't count. There's nothing more to discuss.

You're just wrong.

I’m not saying they couldn’t do more G1 referencing (though I think they shouldn’t), but you’re flat out wrong in dismissing those character/plot elements.

Wow, just saying "You're wrong" proves nothing. Let me know when you can actually come back and address each of my points, as I had with yours, and then maybe you'll have something worthwhile to say. Here's what I actually said and tell me just how G1-ish all that stuff is:

"Again, a Tribble making it's Tribble noise in a cage for about three seconds was still a better throwback than a non-transforming, satelite humping Soundwave. Or a robot dog that "transformed" into a missile (Ravage was no better than a robot-dog drone comparable to the other 20 or so drones onscreen). Or SS displaying a few seconds of cowardicy (one character "sniveling" to a beast like movie Megs is not a throwback - if they gave him more SS traits, maybe we could talk). Or a Terminator-like Decepticon agent (never listed or mentioned to be a "Pretender" - more like a drone with no alt mode in human skin; remember Pretenders still transformed)."

Soundwave doesn't transform or do anything but sit on an Earth satelite - how G1 is that?

Ravage is a dog drone. He has no real alt mode and is essentially a protoform - how G1 is that? Aside from the name, this could have been anyone.

SS acting like a coward for two or three lines - really how can say that's 100% G1? Acting like a coward is just one G1 SS trait, but not all. That's like saying they nailed 1 out of 10 traits on him, so that makes him SS.

Pretender girl - she's not. Never mentioned as a Pretender and doesn't transform.

None of these elements had the time to even indicate they were like their G1 counterparts. Again, this is Bay pulling names out of a hat and allocating to his Bayformers. If he wanted to give G1 throwbacks, all of these elements/characters would have been more drawn out and developed.

Cyberjet #7 wrote:

Counterpunch wrote:

Cyberjet #7 wrote:You can't really tell me they were trying to harken back to G1 with this one...

That's exactly what I'm telling you.

You're just summarily dismissing the G1 elements I brought up because those things don't fit neatly into your argument.

All of the points I referenced are clearly established G1 characters or attributes. You say they aren't good enough or they don't count. There's nothing more to discuss.

You're just wrong.

I’m not saying they couldn’t do more G1 referencing (though I think they shouldn’t), but you’re flat out wrong in dismissing those character/plot elements.

Wow, just saying "You're wrong" proves nothing. Let me know when you can actually come back and address each of my points, as I had with yours, and then maybe you'll have something worthwhile to say. Here's what I actually said and tell me just how G1-ish all that stuff is:

"Again, a Tribble making it's Tribble noise in a cage for about three seconds was still a better throwback than a non-transforming, satelite humping Soundwave. Or a robot dog that "transformed" into a missile (Ravage was no better than a robot-dog drone comparable to the other 20 or so drones onscreen). Or SS displaying a few seconds of cowardicy (one character "sniveling" to a beast like movie Megs is not a throwback - if they gave him more SS traits, maybe we could talk). Or a Terminator-like Decepticon agent (never listed or mentioned to be a "Pretender" - more like a drone with no alt mode in human skin; remember Pretenders still transformed)."

Soundwave doesn't transform or do anything but sit on an Earth satelite - how G1 is that?

Ravage is a dog drone. He has no real alt mode and is essentially a protoform - how G1 is that? Aside from the name, this could have been anyone.

SS acting like a coward for two or three lines - really how can say that's 100% G1? Acting like a coward is just one G1 SS trait, but not all. That's like saying they nailed 1 out of 10 traits on him, so that makes him SS.

Pretender girl - she's not. Never mentioned as a Pretender and doesn't transform.

None of these elements had the time to even indicate they were like their G1 counterparts. Again, this is Bay pulling names out of a hat and allocating to his Bayformers. If he wanted to give G1 throwbacks, all of these elements/characters would have been more drawn out and developed.

lol you just mentiuoned alot of G1 aspects again, Alice is a pretender her alform is an organic skin, Showing that Starscream and megs displaying cowardness is a G1 aspect, what did you want to to retreat every 4 seconds? u cant fit that in a movie, Putting in soundwave and still having him spy but this time he is a satelite i guess youd want an outdated casette player instead? they put ravage and wanna know whats even more g1 about ravage and soundwave is that ravage came out of soundwave just like the G1 show.. jeeze your good at contradicting your self

Cyberjet #7 wrote:

Counterpunch wrote:

Cyberjet #7 wrote:You can't really tell me they were trying to harken back to G1 with this one...

That's exactly what I'm telling you.

You're just summarily dismissing the G1 elements I brought up because those things don't fit neatly into your argument.

All of the points I referenced are clearly established G1 characters or attributes. You say they aren't good enough or they don't count. There's nothing more to discuss.

You're just wrong.

I’m not saying they couldn’t do more G1 referencing (though I think they shouldn’t), but you’re flat out wrong in dismissing those character/plot elements.

Wow, just saying "You're wrong" proves nothing. Let me know when you can actually come back and address each of my points,

Pass. I really don't think it's worth bothering. You've already made your mind up. The things I referenced are pretty well recognized as G1 things by most people.

But I will have a go at this:

Cyberjet #7 wrote:Pretender girl - she's not. Never mentioned as a Pretender and doesn't transform.

"Let's pretend I'm your girlfriend tonight."

Aside from turning into a fat-guy in a space suit or a 30 foot tall fish-monster, what more nod do you want?

The "Let's pretend" line is a stretch. Pretenders still transformed and she did not. She had more in common with a T-800 from the Terminator franchise, removing her skin, than that one line that could be *interpreted* as a G1 reference.

Counterpunch, if you can't make a point, then don't tell someone that they're "wrong". Agree to disagree, but if you're not actually going to *discuss* the topics, then back off my posts.


And to poster Soundwave88, how did I contradict myself? I just explained why those elements were not G1-ish or well-designed enough and you just posted a weak explanation. Alice's alt form is not skin. Pretenders had shells and could also transform. Alice had a skin and did not transform, thus there's no conclusive evidence that she is a Pretender - I don't see why you can't understand that fundamental point about Transformers. And Ravage coming out of SW is also not some amazing G1 reference - Frenzy popped out of Barricade's chest in the first movie, does that mean Barricade is Soundwave, as well? No. Starscream being a coward in one scene, is again only one trait out of many that they got right on SS. Hardly some wonderful G1 nod.

Cyberjet #7 wrote:Counterpunch, if you can't make a point, then don't tell someone that they're "wrong". Agree to disagree, but if you're not actually going to *discuss* the topics, then back off my posts.

It's not that I can't make a point, it's that the points are self-evident and you dismiss them.

-Soundwave stays back, controls information, directs the movements of troops and is Megatron's perfect soldier (he doesn't screw up one bit)
-Ravage is a cat, not a dog. He performs complicated espionage actions, fires hip cannons, and makes a sneak attack on Bumblebee.
-Starscream gets on his knees when Megatron enters the first time, gets abused on the roof of the building, requests a "coward's" tactical retreat and takes over in Megatron's absence.
-Alice is a pretender in perhaps the only way the movies could make it work. The writers themselves have said this. She drops hints in talking to Sam. What else do you want?

You have little standing to say the movie doesn't reference G1. I will stand by these points I have made. I think the movie could have had some other G1-ish referencing, but these few things more than constitute the writer's homage to the original series.

I am happy to have all of this put up for public review in contrast to your "Tribble" argument. I don't think you have a leg to stand on in this situation.

I restate my original assertion that your claim that RotF does not characterize the Transformers in enough G-1 ways or with enough throw-backs/homages is wrong.

The Pretender was done very well. Just because it happens to look like a character from another sci-fi series, doesn't mean anything. In the comics, the shells of the Pretenders were very bulky and popped open when the Transformer inside wanted out. Obviously, thet couldn't happen, because then Alice would have to have been played by Roseanne Barr or Ricki Lake. Or Rosie O'Donnell. You get the point. The Pretender concept was exectued with one flaw: there was no development. Everyone in the theater knew right away that Alice was a bad guy.

Counterpunch, you have no right to tell somone that their point of view is "wrong". You may disagree with it, you may not like it, but it is not wrong. Everything we're discussing is debateable and left for speculation - wuld it be better if I just pointed my finger and stated that you were wrong.

How many threads are in this forum that point out inconsistencies and errors in ROTF. Just because you think you're right, does not make it so.


You just end up sounding like power-tripping Mod...

Cyberjet #7 wrote:Counterpunch, you have no right to tell somone that their point of view is "wrong". You may disagree with it, you may not like it, but it is not wrong. Everything we're discussing is debateable and left for speculation - wuld it be better if I just pointed my finger and stated that you were wrong.

How many threads are in this forum that point out inconsistencies and errors in ROTF. Just because you think you're right, does not make it so.


You just end up sounding like power-tripping Mod...

Whatever. Don't try and derail the point here by referring to my position. I don't and have not waived that against you. I don't shield my arguments with that fact. I am arguing a narrow and specific point here. When you dismissed the four distinct occasions I referenced, that's when you got me into confrontational mode on this.

Look, you can say that the movie doesn't reference them well, or that there isn't enough of it, or that you don't like how they did it.

When I say you're wrong about it, I'm saying that you can't say it isn't there.

Because the effort and G1-referencing is clearly there.

I'm thinking theres no reason why Thundercracker and Skywarp should be left out any longer! I can't help but think the only reason why Devastator is formed yet we see Contructicons all over the place in battle is so they could save a little bit of money and use the same CGI models to make the battle bigger... when they completly for got they could just use Starscreams model and create:

Thundercracker
Skywark
Ramjet
Dirge
Thrust

I'd love to see Starscream leading an attack against autobots with 5 F-22's painted different colors behind him! Hopefully for the 3rd one. ANd since Devastator's destroyed how about bringing in the Stunticons? Maybe the Autobots could bring in the Aerialbots, have a Menasor vs. Superion matchup for the 3rd one! But more plain and simple where the hell is Wheeljack Prowl, and Hound Been? Cliffjumper? I just find it funny they had to put Sideswipe, Arcee, and Jetfire in Revenge before they even covered all the starring cast of the Autobots in!

But if they bring Unicron in I'd love to see Ultra Magnus, and Hot Rod in the next one too!

I'm going to make it my mission to get Wheeljack in there to fix Bumblebee's voice.

As a MAJOR TRANSFORMER FAN i would love to see Unicron but it may not happen due to:

1. Bay’s vison of transformers is something that is cool and realistic, for example, other than the allspark he won’t incorporate the “mass shunting” that the tv show and comics use. So something as massive as Unicron, remember Cybertron in the comics is the size of Saturn, would be impossible due to scale.

2. I think Bay would also have a problem with Unicron due to the comparisons to planet killers in sci fi. Galactus (fantastic 4), Death Star (star wars) and a Borg sphere (star trek). Cybertron in the 1st move looked like a rubics cube with heiroglypics i was expecting it to look like Curosant.

3. If the transformers battled Unicron it will have to be a space battle, that is George Lucas arena not Micheal Bay’s. Plus a space battle will now exclude Bay’s hard-on for the military scenes he has been using so far in TF and TF ROTF. The US hasn’t made a space fighter yet so there would be no need for humans in the final Unicron battle.

A better final villian that would work with Bayfromers would be a decepticon city, Scorpinok is now normal sized but you have Tripticon. I have seen concept art for Tripticon as an aircraft carrier but it was not used in either movies. That most likely will be the closest you will get to Unicron.

http://www.superheroflix.com/news/NEIx3OMMSHUlMQ

Also maybe the introduction of QUINTESSONS would be fun… Maybe a united Transformer army VS the Quints… I have the prefect title for that, Transformers "Till All Are One". AHH robot goodness.

Cyberjet #7 wrote:In Star Trek (for example), a Tribble is a Tribble, a Vulcan is a Vulcan, a Romulan is a Romulan - they didn't really try to re-invent the wheel. Here there was very little (or non-existant) G1 references. Jetfire an outdated stealth jet? Sideswipe a red Corvette? Soundwave a satelite with Ravage missile thing? The list goes on.

Part of that's because Star Trek has been portrayed as a single, more or less continuitous universe for most of its forty year history. There have been some changes in the series over the years - the Klingons being the most drastic example, in both appearance and culture - but the fact that Star Trek has had a singular, "linear" history up until the new movie makes it difficult to make drastic changes to the major races without turning it into whole new animal.
By the way, you still can't convince me the new movie is anything but hitting the restart button on the franchise.

By contrast, Transformers seems to reset itself with each new toy line, whether it's within a certain continuity or not. And the characters change with it. You mention Jetfire as an outdate spy plane - how about Jetfire as a space shuttle or a slow as hell cargo plane? Sideswipe in this movie is a silver Chevy Stingray (not a red corvette) - he's also been a blue sedan and a Dodge Viper. You didn't like Soundwave as a satellite, with Ravage as a missile? Well, Soundwave's also been a stealth bomber with Laserbeak as one of his bombs. Point is, Transformers is rife with characters who take on the names of the originals, but don't have the modes or even the personalities of their G1 predecessors. For the franchise to have survived this long, with the target audience it has, Hasbro has had to make changes over the years to appeal to a new generation. Most of the fans (not all) have taken this in stride, for better or for worse sometimes.

Anyway, as for the subject of the thread, I would like to see the Dinobots and Predacons in the next film, unlikely as it may be.

I would like the Aerialbots, Ultra Magnus, the Dinobots, Sunstreaker, Ramjet, Skywarp, Thundercracker, Galvatron, Inferno, Red Alert, and some others.

I thought of something today about Prowl.
Prowl's my favorite Autobot car, but I don't think he should be in the movies. I liked him because he was a strategist. But really, Prime needs to be the person coming up with the plans. So as much as it pains me, I think it would be better to leave Prowl out.

Also, someone mentioned here that Devastator died. I thought this was kind of left open. Since I don't think 1 shot could have done it. (And besides, the constructicons were elsewhere when it happened.)

Me. Shockwave, triple-changers, a large bot like Omega, Metro or Fort max. Ultra magnus, Kup and of course the dinobots.

edit: Renne ---very funny avatar!!!!

vectorA3 wrote:Me. Shockwave, triple-changers, a large bot like Omega, Metro or Fort max. Ultra magnus, Kup and of course the dinobots.

Man, I forgot the triple changers. I'd love Blitzwing & Astrotrain to rock up in a Triple-Takeover-esque comedy of errors.

edit: Renne ---very funny avatar!!!!

Tom Selleck's mustache does not approve of you thinking it is funny!