The Energon Pub

I'm actually really happy with the state of the market, I just have genuine worry that there's a bubble going on being fueled by Combiners. If there are always this many options, that'd be outstanding, but my far out view is more pessimistic.

Rated X wrote:I dont think the market is "saturated". I think people have options. Different takes on characters. Different price levels for different incomes. Some people might feel like everything shouldnt come out at once because they cant afford it all. But nobody is putting a gun to their head and forcing them to buy it all. The 3rd parties are businesses so you should expect them to compete for your money. Dont expect them to work in tandem to accommodate your financial limits. Its p2p (pay to play) I personally chose to trim my list of preorders for stuff that I decided I really didnt need or will catch on the inevitable clearance prices. Im sick of seeing stuff I paid top dollar for end up half price in 6 months. I also notice that 2nd runs with more accurate decos seem to be the norm. Gone are the days of sold out pre orders. Remember when you had to actually pre order or risk paying ebay prices on the products release date ? (FP Code, Steelcore) Those days are gone because 3rd parties got smarter and richer. We made them what they are today. Im happy you no longer have to be among the super elite fandom to purchase a figure due to limited stock from smaller companies. I support the walmartazation of this hobby.

Try preaching to yourself not others. Nobody needs you to preach or talk down to them.

This reply of yours here sounds hypocritical. Because you are always the loudest, first, middle and last here to cry, moan and be overly disruptive in threads when certain toys are not being made to your preferences, and wish list.

Trying looking into the mirror before you criticize others.

Why is it so hard for you to understand. That We've got budgets and lives beyond this hobby. Nobody needs you to give them insulting and demeaning lessons in budgets and the error of their ways in this hobby.

Managers here have asked you to stop trying to tell others what to do in this hobby. yet you keep ignoring the managers request asking you to stop.

Why do you keep ignoring the Managers request and rules here? Do you think your above the law here? are you testing your limits and the managers here? do you think you can do anything here, keeping getting away with it, even after you get asked to stop?

Tsutsukakushi wrote:

Rated X wrote:I dont think the market is "saturated". I think people have options. Different takes on characters. Different price levels for different incomes. Some people might feel like everything shouldnt come out at once because they cant afford it all. But nobody is putting a gun to their head and forcing them to buy it all. The 3rd parties are businesses so you should expect them to compete for your money. Dont expect them to work in tandem to accommodate your financial limits. Its p2p (pay to play) I personally chose to trim my list of preorders for stuff that I decided I really didnt need or will catch on the inevitable clearance prices. Im sick of seeing stuff I paid top dollar for end up half price in 6 months. I also notice that 2nd runs with more accurate decos seem to be the norm. Gone are the days of sold out pre orders. Remember when you had to actually pre order or risk paying ebay prices on the products release date ? (FP Code, Steelcore) Those days are gone because 3rd parties got smarter and richer. We made them what they are today. Im happy you no longer have to be among the super elite fandom to purchase a figure due to limited stock from smaller companies. I support the walmartazation of this hobby.

Try preaching to yourself not others. Nobody needs you to preach or talk down to them.

This reply of yours here sounds hypocritical. Because you are always the loudest, first, middle and last here to cry, moan and be overly disruptive in threads when certain toys are not being made to your preferences, and wish list.

Trying looking into the mirror before you criticize others.

Why is it so hard for you to understand. That We've got budgets and lives beyond this hobby. Nobody needs you to give them insulting and demeaning lessons in budgets and the error of their ways in this hobby.

Managers here have asked you to stop trying to tell others what to do in this hobby. yet you keep ignoring the managers request asking you to stop.

Why do you keep ignoring the Managers request and rules here? Do you think your above the law here? are you testing your limits and the managers here? do you think you can do anything here, keeping getting away with it, even after you get asked to stop?

Not sure what rules you feel ive broken. We have done this song and dance too many times. Nobody is forcing you to buy anything. Theres no need to complain about "the market" because it doesnt suit your personal budget. The 3rd party market can live without your money. Theres always hasbro if you dont want to break your wallet.

This:

Rated X wrote:I dont think the market is "saturated".

Is contradicted by this:

Rated X wrote:I personally chose to trim my list of preorders for stuff that I decided I really didnt need or will catch on the inevitable clearance prices. Im sick of seeing stuff I paid top dollar for end up half price in 6 months. I also notice that 2nd runs with more accurate decos seem to be the norm. Gone are the days of sold out pre orders. Remember when you had to actually pre order or risk paying ebay prices on the products release date ? (FP Code, Steelcore)

Rated X wrote:Those days are gone because 3rd parties got smarter and richer. We made them what they are today. Im happy you no longer have to be among the super elite fandom to purchase a figure due to limited stock from smaller companies. I support the walmartazation of this hobby.

I would argue those days are gone because the market is saturated; there are so many options and only so much money fans are collectively willing to invest in unofficial product. Plus, between the Generations and MP lines, Hasbro and Takara have really stepped up official alternatives to 3rd Party.

Tsutsukakushi wrote:Nobody needs you to give them insulting and demeaning lessons in budgets and the error of their ways in this hobby.

What did X say that was insulting or demeaning?

Tsutsukakushi wrote:Why do you keep ignoring the Managers request and rules here? Do you think your above the law here? are you testing your limits and the managers here? do you think you can do anything here, keeping getting away with it, even after you get asked to stop?

What rules did X break?

Simmer down now.

megatronus wrote:This:

Rated X wrote:I dont think the market is "saturated".

Is contradicted by this:

Rated X wrote:I personally chose to trim my list of preorders for stuff that I decided I really didnt need or will catch on the inevitable clearance prices. Im sick of seeing stuff I paid top dollar for end up half price in 6 months. I also notice that 2nd runs with more accurate decos seem to be the norm. Gone are the days of sold out pre orders. Remember when you had to actually pre order or risk paying ebay prices on the products release date ? (FP Code, Steelcore)

Rated X wrote:Those days are gone because 3rd parties got smarter and richer. We made them what they are today. Im happy you no longer have to be among the super elite fandom to purchase a figure due to limited stock from smaller companies. I support the walmartazation of this hobby.

I would argue those days are gone because the market is saturated; there are so many options and only so much money fans are collectively willing to invest in unofficial product. Plus, between the Generations and MP lines, Hasbro and Takara have really stepped up official alternatives to 3rd Party.

Tsutsukakushi wrote:Nobody needs you to give them insulting and demeaning lessons in budgets and the error of their ways in this hobby.

What did X say that was insulting or demeaning?

Tsutsukakushi wrote:Why do you keep ignoring the Managers request and rules here? Do you think your above the law here? are you testing your limits and the managers here? do you think you can do anything here, keeping getting away with it, even after you get asked to stop?

What rules did X break?

Simmer down now.

I feel the days of sold out pre orders are over because the factories are giving them better deals on 2nd runs. I think the 2nd runs of giant, mania king, hegemon, steelcore, etc. is proof that these companies are flipping the money they made from the first run and scoring better deals with the factories for being repeat clients. More money means more product out there. I dont think a "saturated" market hurts anyone except those who want to buy it all but cant. Personally I would like to buy it all at once and get it over with. It kind of irks me a bit when someone wants the 3rd parties to slow down so they can catch up. I would love to buy a lamborghini but I cant afford one, not even an older one from the 90s. So should Lamborghini stop making new models because im not ready to buy yet ? Hell no. Its not their fault im not in their league yet. I dont understand why the t man is complaining about my comments that werent even directed towards his own.

Rated X wrote:I feel the days of sold out pre orders are over because the factories are giving them better deals on 2nd runs. I think the 2nd runs of giant, mania king, hegemon, steelcore, etc. is proof that these companies are flipping the money they made from the first run and scoring better deals with the factories for being repeat clients. More money means more product out there.

I'm not sure how you're drawing the connection between preorders and factory runs? What does a 3rd party company's backend operations have to do with frontend activities like customers preordering the product at retailers? At any rate, I'd like to see proof of your factory discount claims, because it just doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

Rated X wrote:I dont think a "saturated" market hurts anyone except those who want to buy it all but cant.

A saturated market, on whole, is actually good for consumers and bad for sellers. It drives down prices. Also, why do you keep putting saturated in quotes?

Rated X wrote:Personally I would like to buy it all at once and get it over with. It kind of irks me a bit when someone wants the 3rd parties to slow down so they can catch up. I would love to buy a lamborghini but I cant afford one, not even an older one from the 90s. So should Lamborghini stop making new models because im not ready to buy yet ? Hell no. Its not their fault im not in their league yet.

Right. I don't think people actually expect 3rd Parties to cater to their individual financial situations. It's more of a "Awwww man, if only..." kind of thing.

Rated X wrote:I dont understand why the t man is complaining about my comments that werent even directed towards his own.

Rinse. Wash. Repeat.

I was referring to a comment made earlier that said they hope nothing new is revealed because the marked is oversaturated. I took it as they were saying slow down, I cant keep up.

I think preorders arent selling out because people are catching on to their game. Why do I think factories are giving repeat clients better deals ? Easy. How many failed kickstarter projects have we seen because they couldnt afford the smallest run allowed ? Its simple, the more you show you are willing to spend big money, the better they take care of you. Its called good business practices. The big boys got money to play with, so they get the hookup. This is what I think, not what I know. Factories are a dime a dozen in china. They need the 3rd parties more than the 3rd parties need them. I truly believe the factories are competing for the 3rd partys business as much as the 3rd parties are competing for our dollars. This is my opinion. Never said it was a solid fact. Its just food for thought.

On the t-man, he just seems to have it in for me. He expects me to be more like him but im not him.

Getting back on topic, I would love to see what characters KFC plans to use the perceptor mold for in 2015 ? How about bumblebee ? Maybe they can give it wings and do the seekers ? Maybe a tank megatron for the t-man ?

ScottyP wrote:I'm actually really happy with the state of the market, I just have genuine worry that there's a bubble going on being fueled by Combiners. If there are always this many options, that'd be outstanding, but my far out view is more pessimistic.

Get the gist of what your saying. Also think it's redundant and tiring when almost all the 3rd parties focus on doing similar things and are overly competing with each other.

Would like more variety and less competing. Would prefer each 3rd party to grab something from the TF francise and make focus on it solely. Examples one company can do Car Robots, while another company does Beast Wars. Then another company can focus on doing Takara Exclusive G-1 Japanse TF Character toys. While another can do the bigger scale robots while the other can do the tiny scale toys. One company can focus on the MP scale while the other focuses on Classics scale and so on.

Tsutsukakushi wrote:

ScottyP wrote:I'm actually really happy with the state of the market, I just have genuine worry that there's a bubble going on being fueled by Combiners. If there are always this many options, that'd be outstanding, but my far out view is more pessimistic.

Get the gist of what your saying. Also think it's redundant and tiring when almost all the 3rd parties focus on doing similar things and are overly competing with each other.

Would like more variety and less competing. Would prefer each 3rd party to grab something from the TF francise and make focus on it solely. Examples one company can do Car Robots, while another company does Beast Wars. Then another company can focus on doing Takara Exclusive G-1 Japanse TF Character toys. While another can do the bigger scale robots while the other can do the tiny scale toys. One company can focus on the MP scale while the other focuses on Classics scale and so on.

Personally, I'm fine with multiple companies competing with eachother for 2 reasons:
1) Diversity of Product. Would you like a UT-style athletic Predaking or MMC's bulky one? I like the ability to define my collection a little bit based on which figure's aesthetics I prefer.

2) Cost. If each company produced a separate character from the others all at the same time, I would watch more money go out the door than I'm currently comfortable thinking about.

Tsutsukakushi wrote:

ScottyP wrote:I'm actually really happy with the state of the market, I just have genuine worry that there's a bubble going on being fueled by Combiners. If there are always this many options, that'd be outstanding, but my far out view is more pessimistic.

Get the gist of what your saying. Also think it's redundant and tiring when almost all the 3rd parties focus on doing similar things and are overly competing with each other.

Would like more variety and less competing. Would prefer each 3rd party to grab something from the TF francise and make focus on it solely. Examples one company can do Car Robots, while another company does Beast Wars. Then another company can focus on doing Takara Exclusive G-1 Japanse TF Character toys. While another can do the bigger scale robots while the other can do the tiny scale toys. One company can focus on the MP scale while the other focuses on Classics scale and so on.

I do agree with you that it would be nice if they stopped competing. But from a business perspective, what sense would that make ? Maybe BP should only produce ethanol because Chevron already produces gasoline ? And Hess can get out of gasoline altogether and start mining coal ?

My point is that they are all in business to make money. They are not friends or relatives and have no incentive to work in tandem with each other.

Rated X wrote: Those days are gone because 3rd parties got smarter and richer. We made them what they are today.

We? as yourself included? no

You hurt 3rd parties companies and their sales.

When you troll, curse, get hot tempered, take things off topic, overly negative repeative, fighting with members and are purposely disruptive in threads. you take discussion and interest away from the 3rd party toys that some might want to buy. All this hurts the sales of 3rd party toys.

You are the reason why all those 3rd party companies owners and liasons left the seibertron forums and only post on TFW. Because you upset these guys and they wanted nothing to do with you, so they left. When these 3rd party companies can't promote their products here, They lose sales not gain them.

Tsutsukakushi wrote:

Rated X wrote: Those days are gone because 3rd parties got smarter and richer. We made them what they are today.

We? as yourself included? no

You hurt 3rd parties companies and their sales.

When you troll, curse, get hot tempered, take things off topic, overly negative repeative and are purposely disruptive in threads. you take discussion and interest away from the 3rd party toys that some might want to buy. All this hurts the sales of 3rd party toys.

You are the reason why all those 3rd party companies owners and liasons left the seibertron forums and only post on TFW. Because you upset these guys and they wanted nothing to do with you, so they left.

When two trolls duke it out, everyone loses. Quit egging him on, he's allowed his opinion and you are just as bad as you claim he is. Stop being a condescending prick.

TFW has always had a larger 3rd party community that Seibertron. TFW for whatever reason seems to attract many more 'hardcore' collectors, which in turn attract more to the 3rd party forums. Their frontpage actually features 3rd party item news, which we have not done so for at least 2 years.

That's why 3rd party reps go there. X isn't this big meany that you think he is. I can vouch for his awesomeness as I've actually met him at Botcon. He may have different opinions than I, but I don't care because he's MutherFu@@ing X!

Mkall wrote:

Tsutsukakushi wrote:

Rated X wrote: Those days are gone because 3rd parties got smarter and richer. We made them what they are today.

We? as yourself included? no

You hurt 3rd parties companies and their sales.

When you troll, curse, get hot tempered, take things off topic, overly negative repeative and are purposely disruptive in threads. you take discussion and interest away from the 3rd party toys that some might want to buy. All this hurts the sales of 3rd party toys.

You are the reason why all those 3rd party companies owners and liasons left the seibertron forums and only post on TFW. Because you upset these guys and they wanted nothing to do with you, so they left.

When two trolls duke it out, everyone loses. Quit egging him on, he's allowed his opinion and you are just as bad as you claim he is. Stop being a condescending prick.

TFW has always had a larger 3rd party community that Seibertron. TFW for whatever reason seems to attract many more 'hardcore' collectors, which in turn attract more to the 3rd party forums. Their frontpage actually features 3rd party item news, which we have not done so for at least 2 years.

That's why 3rd party reps go there. X isn't this big meany that you think he is. I can vouch for his awesomeness as I've actually met him at Botcon. He may have different opinions than I, but I don't care because he's MutherFu@@ing X!

Thanks Mkall. I try my best to try and rationalize my opinions to the T-man. One day Im going to lose my sanity trying to understand what makes him tick.

Rated X wrote: I try my best to try and rationalize my opinions to the T-man.

Don't have issues with your opinion here. Could care less what you like and hate.

Have issues with your behavior here. Which primarily consist of trolling, flame baiting, being overly disruptive in threads, temper tantrums, cursing and crude remarks.

Mkall wrote:

Tsutsukakushi wrote:

Rated X wrote: Those days are gone because 3rd parties got smarter and richer. We made them what they are today.

We? as yourself included? no

You hurt 3rd parties companies and their sales.

When you troll, curse, get hot tempered, take things off topic, overly negative repeative and are purposely disruptive in threads. you take discussion and interest away from the 3rd party toys that some might want to buy. All this hurts the sales of 3rd party toys.

You are the reason why all those 3rd party companies owners and liasons left the seibertron forums and only post on TFW. Because you upset these guys and they wanted nothing to do with you, so they left.

When two trolls duke it out, everyone loses. Quit egging him on, he's allowed his opinion and you are just as bad as you claim he is. Stop being a condescending prick.

TFW has always had a larger 3rd party community that Seibertron. TFW for whatever reason seems to attract many more 'hardcore' collectors, which in turn attract more to the 3rd party forums. Their frontpage actually features 3rd party item news, which we have not done so for at least 2 years.

That's why 3rd party reps go there. X isn't this big meany that you think he is. I can vouch for his awesomeness as I've actually met him at Botcon. He may have different opinions than I, but I don't care because he's MutherFu@@ing X!

megatronus wrote:

Mkall wrote:

Tsutsukakushi wrote:

Rated X wrote: Those days are gone because 3rd parties got smarter and richer. We made them what they are today.

We? as yourself included? no

You hurt 3rd parties companies and their sales.

When you troll, curse, get hot tempered, take things off topic, overly negative repeative and are purposely disruptive in threads. you take discussion and interest away from the 3rd party toys that some might want to buy. All this hurts the sales of 3rd party toys.

You are the reason why all those 3rd party companies owners and liasons left the seibertron forums and only post on TFW. Because you upset these guys and they wanted nothing to do with you, so they left.

When two trolls duke it out, everyone loses. Quit egging him on, he's allowed his opinion and you are just as bad as you claim he is. Stop being a condescending prick.

TFW has always had a larger 3rd party community that Seibertron. TFW for whatever reason seems to attract many more 'hardcore' collectors, which in turn attract more to the 3rd party forums. Their frontpage actually features 3rd party item news, which we have not done so for at least 2 years.

That's why 3rd party reps go there. X isn't this big meany that you think he is. I can vouch for his awesomeness as I've actually met him at Botcon. He may have different opinions than I, but I don't care because he's MutherFu@@ing X!

Encouraging and supporting a disruptive member like X, makes them act worse.

Either way, I'm going back to ignoring him and not replying to him here. He is not worth my time.

Tsutsukakushi wrote:Encouraging and supporting a disruptive member like X, makes them act worse.

Either way, I'm going back to ignoring him and not replying to him here. He is not worth my time.

How about you stop talking about not replying and get down to the business of actually doing it.

Tsutsukakushi wrote:

Rated X wrote: I try my best to try and rationalize my opinions to the T-man.

Don't have issues with your opinion here. Could care less what you like and hate.

Have issues with your behavior here. Which primarily consist of trolling, flame baiting, being overly disruptive in threads, temper tantrums, cursing and crude remarks.

Oh come on now, this thread was going fine until you jumped on his opinion piece with your "temper tantrums".

Dudes, dudes.

Less arguments. More Seacons.

Seacons make everything awesome.

Delta Magnus wrote:Dudes, dudes.

Less arguments. More Seacons.

Seacons make everything awesome.

I would love to see some Seacons.

I wouldn't mind someone taking on the Seacons after the Dinobot Wars are over. Like Predaking, I have no connection to them at all, but I really dig their overall look.

Gauntlet101010 wrote:I wouldn't mind someone taking on the Seacons after the Dinobot Wars are over. Like Predaking, I have no connection to them at all, but I really dig their overall look.

I'd have a hard time paying Hasbro USA prices for Updated Seacons toys. Would never pay those 3rd party prices of $400 to $500 for updated seacons toys. Thought most of the 1987 character designs were too ugly and overly freaky looking.

Turtles are peaceful and very slow moving. So having the Seacon decepticon combiner team leader transform into a turtle was a bad choice.

Tsutsukakushi wrote:

Gauntlet101010 wrote:I wouldn't mind someone taking on the Seacons after the Dinobot Wars are over. Like Predaking, I have no connection to them at all, but I really dig their overall look.

I'd have a hard time paying Hasbro USA prices for Updated Seacons toys. Thought most of the toys were to ugly and overly freaky looking.

Turtles are peaceful animals, So having the decepticon combiner team leader transform into a turtle was awul.

>Talking slag about the Seacon

The DJD's coming for you now.

Seacons are life, Seacons are love.

(Also, Snapping Turtles are anything but peaceful. In fact they're vicious blighters that eat literally anything.)

Tsutsukakushi wrote:Turtles are peaceful and very slow moving. So having the Seacon decepticon combiner team leader transform into a turtle was a bad choice.

Go ahead and stick your hand in this guys mouth. I promise you he is very peaceful.

So MMC is going to make studio ox styled MP figures. Would like to hear more about these.

For those who don't know what Stuido Ox is.
http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Studio_OX