The Energon Pub

Blurrz wrote:IIRC one of the Dinobot molds (Slag?) is dead and crumpled. We would have had Encore xx Dinobots right after Devastator, but it would have only been 4/5 of the boys.

I've heard similar info in the past in reference to Swoop, but who knows. It wouldn't surprise me at all if Hasbro tackles a Grimlock reissue, and ignores the other 4.

ScottyP wrote:

Blurrz wrote:IIRC one of the Dinobot molds (Slag?) is dead and crumpled. We would have had Encore xx Dinobots right after Devastator, but it would have only been 4/5 of the boys.

I've heard similar info in the past in reference to Swoop, but who knows. It wouldn't surprise me at all if Hasbro tackles a Grimlock reissue, and ignores the other 4.

I'd love a reissue line as long as they're unmodified (none of these 'new colors' for any of the bots and no more 'short smokestacks' either).

As for lost molds, if Has/Tak wanted to they could just as easily reverse-engineer existing samples to create new molds just as the KO companies have and get their sculptors/mold creators to put the finishing touches on them to correct any problems.

Blurrz wrote:IIRC one of the Dinobot molds (Slag?) is dead and crumpled. We would have had Encore xx Dinobots right after Devastator, but it would have only been 4/5 of the boys.

It would still be 4 more figures than I (and many others) own currently. I'd jump at the chance to get reissues of these guys.

And if Hasbro would've planned a bit, they could've released these guys in conjunction with the 3D release of "Jurassic Park".

necr0blivion wrote:
It would still be 4 more figures than I (and many others) own currently. I'd jump at the chance to get reissues of these guys.

And if Hasbro would've planned a bit, they could've released these guys in conjunction with the 3D release of "Jurassic Park".

Just to play devil's advocate - let's say a set of four reissue Dinobots was a TRU Exclusive that retailed for $149.99, and some minor but noticeable change occurred to the molds. Would you still want to jump on them?

I don't understand why a degraded or outright broken or missing mold would prevent production of a reissue. Can't they just make another mold, either using the original plans or by reverse-engineering it? If KO companies can do it, surely Hasbro can. I know molds are expensive to make, but if it was profitable the first time around, why not do it again? "The mold is gone" just seems like such a lame excuse.

ScottyP wrote:Just to play devil's advocate - let's say a set of four reissue Dinobots was a TRU Exclusive that retailed for $149.99, and some minor but noticeable change occurred to the molds. Would you still want to jump on them?

Probably not, not at $150. The price would be the issue for me, not the minor changes. Also, if it were a TRU exclusive, most of us would probably never actually see it in a TRU store, so even if we wanted it, we'd end up paying $250 or more to import it or get it on eBay.

GuyIncognito wrote:I don't understand why a degraded or outright broken or missing mold would prevent production of a reissue. Can't they just make another mold, either using the original plans or by reverse-engineering it? If KO companies can do it, surely Hasbro can. I know molds are expensive to make, but if it was profitable the first time around, why not do it again? "The mold is gone" just seems like such a lame excuse.

I think it's the costs involved in creating the new molds to the exact specifications of the original that's holding Hasbro back. I remember seeing a talk by Adam Savage, a Mythbuster, about crating a mold from reverse engineering and what it produces is not to the same quality.

If Hasbro could be guaranteed enough profit from such a venture, it would be a no brainer to do so. Let's face it however, there's just not enough of us to guarantee that a remade Mirage mold would be profitable.

GuyIncognito wrote:I don't understand why a degraded or outright broken or missing mold would prevent production of a reissue. Can't they just make another mold, either using the original plans or by reverse-engineering it? If KO companies can do it, surely Hasbro can. I know molds are expensive to make, but if it was profitable the first time around, why not do it again? "The mold is gone" just seems like such a lame excuse.

My thoughts exactly. If CHMS etc. can do it, then so can Has/Tak.

Yeah, by all means they have the technology to reproduce it, but when it comes down to it, if they have a mold that is already to go (Fort Max), then it takes precedence over a mold that is going to need a bit more money and a bit more time before it is ready to go (Dinobots). Until all the molds that are ready to go have become Encores, then maybe we'll see the Dinobots again.

Anyways I digress. I think for me, it actually is less of who the characters are, and more on the quality of what we get. If Fort Max was one of these 'ready go' molds, then it is really disheartening to heart about that bad production run for AmiAmi orders (or was it HLJ?) that was missing parts or stickers. They need to focus up on QC too!

It makes perfect sense that they'd rather use an existing mold than make a new one. They save money and take less risk.

But when I hear "That figure will never be reissued because the mold is broken/degraded/gone" it sounds like BS to me. I just can't believe that in 2013, one of the biggest (THE biggest?) toy makers in the world can't recreate a toy they made in 1984.

It is Hasbro after all

Hey, who knows, they could surprise us. It has been more than just once where they've done something w/ G1 reissues that have been eyecatchers.

I guess it really comes down to Scotty's initial question, is there enough demand for this to take flight or should they just stick with spending their fundings on new molds and new toys rather than bringing back the past?

GuyIncognito wrote:But when I hear "That figure will never be reissued because the mold is broken/degraded/gone" it sounds like BS to me. I just can't believe that in 2013, one of the biggest (THE biggest?) toy makers in the world can't recreate a toy they made in 1984.

Indeed, instead let's all focus on the laws associated with recreating a toy from scratch. You know, copyrights, patents, all the bureaucratic paperwork. Just a suggestion.

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:

GuyIncognito wrote:But when I hear "That figure will never be reissued because the mold is broken/degraded/gone" it sounds like BS to me. I just can't believe that in 2013, one of the biggest (THE biggest?) toy makers in the world can't recreate a toy they made in 1984.

Indeed, instead let's all focus on the laws associated with recreating a toy from scratch. You know, copyrights, patents, all the bureaucratic paperwork. Just a suggestion.

I don't follow. They already own the trademarks and the patents, don't they? Why would they have to do that all over again?

GuyIncognito wrote:

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:

GuyIncognito wrote:But when I hear "That figure will never be reissued because the mold is broken/degraded/gone" it sounds like BS to me. I just can't believe that in 2013, one of the biggest (THE biggest?) toy makers in the world can't recreate a toy they made in 1984.

Indeed, instead let's all focus on the laws associated with recreating a toy from scratch. You know, copyrights, patents, all the bureaucratic paperwork. Just a suggestion.

I don't follow. They already own the trademarks and the patents, don't they? Why would they have to do that all over again?

We all know trademarks expire, but what some may not realize, so can patents. I don't know the specifics of the whole deal, but I do know once they do, they enter the dreaded Public Domain, up for grabs for anyone without contest. A few examples:

- The basic building brick, first patented by Lego. Now some of the older and more basic brick designs are public domain, which explains why the models of some brick brands look a bit haphazard, including Kre-O.
- The architecture of some 8-bit and 16-bit consoles, the NES, the SNES and the Genesis/Mega Drive have been used the most for so-called "Famiclones". The pre-installed games on those things would still be illegal however.

Once a mold is found intact, a new patent could be submitted and copyrighted regardless of status, but I'm not too sure, I'm no expert in legalese So finding the original mold and/or fixing it is more important than going by a design that's Public Domain.

GuyIncognito wrote:

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:

GuyIncognito wrote:But when I hear "That figure will never be reissued because the mold is broken/degraded/gone" it sounds like BS to me. I just can't believe that in 2013, one of the biggest (THE biggest?) toy makers in the world can't recreate a toy they made in 1984.

Indeed, instead let's all focus on the laws associated with recreating a toy from scratch. You know, copyrights, patents, all the bureaucratic paperwork. Just a suggestion.

I don't follow. They already own the trademarks and the patents, don't they? Why would they have to do that all over again?

I'm fairly sure Trademarks expire. And as for the early molds that come from Diaclone and Microman, Takara might own the designs for those toys with Hasbro not having any claim to them at all. (Hell, I don't know how the partnership between Hasbro and Takara works in terms of legality, so I don't know who owns what in general. Takara could own everything for all I know, though that seems unlikely.)

There's also changing toy safety standards and laws to consider. TFwiki.net has an article about that which may be enlightening. But yeah, all those long missiles and short smokestacks? They're an attempt to not get sued. Hasbro wouldn't knowingly open themselves up to a lawsuit and product recalls. So even if they did go back to reissues, it wouldn't necessarily be ones that would please you.

I think it may be just as well if they don't, to be honest.

I wonder - if they put reissues out as "Adult Collectibles", does that let them get around safety standards in any way? Anyone with any legalese or insight into that? I'd be curious what the differences in what's allowed could potentially be.

ScottyP wrote:I wonder - if they put reissues out as "Adult Collectibles", does that let them get around safety standards in any way? Anyone with any legalese or insight into that? I'd be curious what the differences in what's allowed could potentially be.

Possibly, possibly not. Deep down they're still toys and still present choking hazards when missiles are shorter than the legal 2 inches. Besides, "Adult Collectibles" are either more high end products, or can be taken as a euphemism especially if the suggested age is 18+.

Either way, that's out of Hasbro's area of expertise and as such are usually outsourced. And I don't see Hasbro leaving reissues to other companies. As those companies would have access to the molds licensed to them, who knows what bad things they'd be able to do. The world of contracts is a nasty one, though it did give us the Sony Playstation and the Mario Hotel and Zelda CD-I games.

I would only delve into a new reissue line if it were actually a new line.

I feel little need to re-visit purchases that have been available nearly every two years. Having to start each line with Optimus, Starscream, Soundwave, etc has gotten old. Some different kinds of reissues like what we've seen at the end of Encore would be great.

If the question is only one of domestic reissues, I'm not entirely sure it could happen without some clever innovation.

Counterpunch wrote:If the question is only one of domestic reissues, I'm not entirely sure it could happen without some clever innovation.

Innovation from a product perspective or marketing perspective? In other words, more innovative, different toys, or different distribution/packaging/etc. methods?

Counterpunch wrote:I would only delve into a new reissue line if it were actually a new line.

I feel little need to re-visit purchases that have been available nearly every two years. Having to start each line with Optimus, Starscream, Soundwave, etc has gotten old. Some different kinds of reissues like what we've seen at the end of Encore would be great.

I completely agree. It is old to restart the line every few years always beginning with the same iconic characters.

I like the direction that Encore has been going. Hope they can continue and bring us new surprises, like the Dinobots.

I would like to see more nifty toy reissued,like the Classic Pretenders!

(Maybe even Overlord and the Japanese exclusive guys like Victory Saber and LeoKaiser)

ScottyP wrote:

Counterpunch wrote:If the question is only one of domestic reissues, I'm not entirely sure it could happen without some clever innovation.

Innovation from a product perspective or marketing perspective? In other words, more innovative, different toys, or different distribution/packaging/etc. methods?

Marketing.

It just doesn't make sense to have a product that is 20+ years old on a shelf in TRU sitting next to a figure from a show or movie and then have the reissue product be 3-5 times higher in cost.

It looks bad. It sits around forever. Due to the cost, collectors look for any reason to spend 5 or 10 dollars more and buy an import version with perfect paint apps or improved this that or the other thing.

If reissues are premium product, treat them as such. Work with TRU to create a "collector" section of the store and sell them alongside other "premium" product. Star Wars, GI Joe, Marvel...the potential is all there.

Counterpunch wrote:If reissues are premium product, treat them as such. Work with TRU to create a "collector" section of the store and sell them alongside other "premium" product. Star Wars, GI Joe, Marvel...the potential is all there.

That makes a ton of sense. Tbh, a suped up, Asia Six Shot-esque version of even something like Soundwave (which I have 3 or 4 of) would be something I'd buy. A straight reissue in a paper box for $40 would not be.

Stormrider wrote:

Counterpunch wrote:I would only delve into a new reissue line if it were actually a new line.

I feel little need to re-visit purchases that have been available nearly every two years. Having to start each line with Optimus, Starscream, Soundwave, etc has gotten old. Some different kinds of reissues like what we've seen at the end of Encore would be great.

I completely agree. It is old to restart the line every few years always beginning with the same iconic characters.

I like the direction that Encore has been going. Hope they can continue and bring us new surprises, like the Dinobots.

I would absolutely get into a new line of reissues, but you guys are hitting on my personal biggest fear. I'd fear that ANOTHER round of the same old figures to start the reissue series would ultimately jeopardize the newer ones, i.e less redone ones.
If they started with the more interesting figures, I'd be all in.
What would most likely happen though is the same roster of reissues we'd gotten 8 or so years ago. We'd get the OP/SS/Prowl/BS/Smokescreen run, then probably Inferno and Grappel, and we wouldn't even get the good Japanese reissued figures like Blitzwing.

I am sure all of you have noticed that the Encore line is made up of mostly large, expensive figures - ie Omega Supreme, Fort Max, Devastator, Bruticus, Sky Lynx, etc. It probably has a lot to say about the profitability of the larger figures sold to collectors and perhaps of the future of the Encore line and what figures are likely to be produced in the future.