The Energon Pub

I am disappointed that Sideways didn't get a better role in the story, I mean come on, he could have been The Fallen's handyman. Demolisher went down too easily, seriously, he is a humongous destruction machine. IT DESTROYED A BLOODY BRIDGE! Why couldn't Demolisher grab prime, and sling him into a building!? Anyway, The Fallen was rather weak at the end, but I think I have an explanation for that. The Matrix Of Leadership. Nuff Said. Devastator was rather dumb to me, where was the Wrecking Balls on the Constructicons? Devastator should of been a biped, to make him more massive, and more menacing. They shouldn't have given him a mouth for a weapon, come on,a mouth for a weapon!? Why was there more than one Constructicon? That was weird for me.

SlyTF1 wrote:Well, the final battle all together is 40 minutes, and most of the entire 40 minutes was relevant to the story, so if they would have made the battle 4 minutes longer, then the final battle would have dragged on and on.

What does that even mean? My entire point is to have the fight drag on, so that they could actually have a good, satisfying fight at the end.

SlyTF1 wrote:It still would be cool to make it longer, but whats the point?

So Prime could actually fight the villain!

SlyTF1 wrote:They said all they had to say, and a 1 on 1 fight with giant robots wouldn't be all that interesting for 5 minutes. 3 minutes, yeah, but 5, no.

Use your imagination. We're talking about a superpowered jetpack-wearing Optimus Prime fighting a Transformer who happens to be one step below Unicron. There's a lot they could have done. They could have teleported to other planets. The Fallen could have shown off new powers, Prime could have shown abilities beyond "Fly, stab, and shoot." Ooh, here's a good one: At the end, Prime and the Fallen teleport back to Earth, and the Sun Harvester fires, and Prime throws the Fallen into the blast of energy, saving our Sun while killing the Fallen in a big blast of light.

[quote="#Sideways#"]Anyway, The Fallen was rather weak at the end, but I think I have an explanation for that. The Matrix Of Leadership. Nuff Said./quote]

Prime didn't have the matrix, the Fallen did. And it was probably destroyed along with the Sun Harvester.

OptiMagnus10 wrote:

Shadowman wrote:

OptiMagnus10 wrote:Okay, give me an example where Prime is indifferent to hid dead allies. Where is that?

That ancient Transformer that gave his life so that prime could have a fighting edge against the Fallen and Megatron? You notice what Prime does after the fight? He shrugs off the pieces and acts like they were never their. A lot of people claimed he was also indifferent to jazz's death but then I don't see that one.

Ahh...yes...that is odd. You'd think he'd want to keep his jetpack for the abilities he gains from it. Maybe he could have at least said something about Jetfire's heroism.
As for Jazz, I can agree with you. Optimus does acknowledge his death and dying a hero.

Prime has the armor he got from Jetfire in the next film. I always got the feeling that the armor was roughly attatched anyway. The armor in Dark of the Moon appears to be refined in it's connection to Optimus.

OptiMagnus10 wrote:

Shadowman wrote:

OptiMagnus10 wrote:Okay, give me an example where Prime is indifferent to hid dead allies. Where is that?

That ancient Transformer that gave his life so that prime could have a fighting edge against the Fallen and Megatron? You notice what Prime does after the fight? He shrugs off the pieces and acts like they were never their. A lot of people claimed he was also indifferent to jazz's death but then I don't see that one.

Ahh...yes...that is odd. You'd think he'd want to keep his jetpack for the abilities he gains from it. Maybe he could have at least said something about Jetfire's heroism.
As for Jazz, I can agree with you. Optimus does acknowledge his death and dying a hero.

the reason ithink prime didn't acknowledge jetfires death is because THE JUST MET! It macks seens prime doesn't know what happened before he comes back online. so as far as prime knows he could have been helping jetfire, putting him out of his missurey and making sure he helps fight against the . hell who knows maybe prime acknowledges his death in the 3rd movie

t$money$49 wrote:

OptiMagnus10 wrote:

Shadowman wrote:

OptiMagnus10 wrote:Okay, give me an example where Prime is indifferent to hid dead allies. Where is that?

That ancient Transformer that gave his life so that prime could have a fighting edge against the Fallen and Megatron? You notice what Prime does after the fight? He shrugs off the pieces and acts like they were never their. A lot of people claimed he was also indifferent to jazz's death but then I don't see that one.

Ahh...yes...that is odd. You'd think he'd want to keep his jetpack for the abilities he gains from it. Maybe he could have at least said something about Jetfire's heroism.
As for Jazz, I can agree with you. Optimus does acknowledge his death and dying a hero.

the reason ithink prime didn't acknowledge jetfires death is because THE JUST MET! It macks seens prime doesn't know what happened before he comes back online. so as far as prime knows he could have been helping jetfire, putting him out of his missurey and making sure he helps fight against the . hell who knows maybe prime acknowledges his death in the 3rd movie

OR...maybe after battle, OP shruggs off the Jetfire's parts because he's tired (I'm using my imagination here!). Just because gratitude for Jetfire's sacrifice wasn't written in to the story doesn't mean Prime wasn't grateful for the boost. I think he acknowledges the help in a private, intimate ceremony, away from the press.

t$money$49 wrote:

OptiMagnus10 wrote:

Shadowman wrote:

OptiMagnus10 wrote:Okay, give me an example where Prime is indifferent to hid dead allies. Where is that?

That ancient Transformer that gave his life so that prime could have a fighting edge against the Fallen and Megatron? You notice what Prime does after the fight? He shrugs off the pieces and acts like they were never their. A lot of people claimed he was also indifferent to jazz's death but then I don't see that one.

Ahh...yes...that is odd. You'd think he'd want to keep his jetpack for the abilities he gains from it. Maybe he could have at least said something about Jetfire's heroism.
As for Jazz, I can agree with you. Optimus does acknowledge his death and dying a hero.

the reason ithink prime didn't acknowledge jetfires death is because THE JUST MET! It macks seens prime doesn't know what happened before he comes back online. so as far as prime knows he could have been helping jetfire, putting him out of his missurey and making sure he helps fight against the . hell who knows maybe prime acknowledges his death in the 3rd movie

I was going to bring up the fact they just met but I figured that wouldn't prove any point. Obviously, Jetfire had never heard of Optimus before Sam mentioned him so one would think Optimus didn't know who Jetfire was, so I'm sure when Optimus was resurrected he wasn't quite sure exactly what was going on or who the old Scotsman was, although he was probably still aware of the Fallen's mission. You can see he looks "out of it" when he wakes up and doesn't really speak, or respond, almost like he's slowly coming out of a coma. But when the parts are put onto him he immdiately goes to find the Fallen.

OptiMagnus10 wrote:

Shadowman wrote:

OptiMagnus10 wrote:Okay, give me an example where Prime is indifferent to hid dead allies. Where is that?

That ancient Transformer that gave his life so that prime could have a fighting edge against the Fallen and Megatron? You notice what Prime does after the fight? He shrugs off the pieces and acts like they were never their. A lot of people claimed he was also indifferent to jazz's death but then I don't see that one.

Ahh...yes...that is odd. You'd think he'd want to keep his jetpack for the abilities he gains from it. Maybe he could have at least said something about Jetfire's heroism.
As for Jazz, I can agree with you. Optimus does acknowledge his death and dying a hero.

He never met Jetfire though. As soon as he was revived Jetfire just says "wow a prime, since I'm dying anyway you might as well well wear me like a backpack" and rips his spark out. It was a heroic sacrifice, but it was out of nowhere and what are you supposed to say about someone you never knew? "What's-his-name was a brave soldier, and for those 4 and a half seconds I knew him he was like the uncle I never had" I doubt they could have Optimus acknowledge Jetfire's heroism without it sounding cheesy and forced.

Evil_the_Nub wrote:

OptiMagnus10 wrote:

Shadowman wrote:

OptiMagnus10 wrote:Okay, give me an example where Prime is indifferent to hid dead allies. Where is that?

That ancient Transformer that gave his life so that prime could have a fighting edge against the Fallen and Megatron? You notice what Prime does after the fight? He shrugs off the pieces and acts like they were never their. A lot of people claimed he was also indifferent to jazz's death but then I don't see that one.

Ahh...yes...that is odd. You'd think he'd want to keep his jetpack for the abilities he gains from it. Maybe he could have at least said something about Jetfire's heroism.
As for Jazz, I can agree with you. Optimus does acknowledge his death and dying a hero.

He never met Jetfire though. As soon as he was revived Jetfire just says "wow a prime, since I'm dying anyway you might as well well wear me like a backpack" and rips his spark out. It was a heroic sacrifice, but it was out of nowhere and what are you supposed to say about someone you never knew? "What's-his-name was a brave soldier, and for those 4 and a half seconds I knew him he was like the uncle I never had" I don't they could have Optimus acknowledge Jetfire's heroism without it sounding cheesy and forced.

He could have said something about the guy who just gave his life so you could achieve victory. As for "cheesy and forced," This is a Michael Bay movie; everything is cheesy and forced.

Im sure everyone would have liked to seen longer battles between several combatants in the movies. The Fallen did break alot of stuff prior to fighting prime. He smashed a carrier when he arrived. Soldiers who had just repeled Megatron, and most of the decepticon forces were effortlessly crushed by the Fallen. The Fallen especially knocks down the entire autobot forces singlehandledly and steals the Matrix of leadeship, which they were powerless to stop him. They all knew Prime had to do it. I don't think the Fallen was shown to be as worthless as people make it out to be. While I'd preferred the movie trimmed time somewhere else in the story, the movie was long enough as it was.

I mean if I had to script the final battle I'd take a page from the games and hand the foes pair off. Starscream would have fought Jetfire (which I'd had Screamer acknowledge him as his mentor, and friend before taking down Jetfire.) while Prime would have danced with the Fallen, and been losing while Ironhide and Sideswipe would kept Megatron busy. With Fallen taking the Matrix from Prime, and knocking him aside, he d go off to claim his prize, then Jetfire and Prime would merge, which then optimus would come clean house basically like he did. May be with a slightly longer fight.

Ultimately the movie had some awesome fights, particularly the forest battle. (which I've watched probably probably a 100 times alone.) But like I've said I dont think Hollywood can afford make the dream movie most of us would envision heh. it's been a supreme effort all in all.

Shadowman wrote:

SlyTF1 wrote:Well, the final battle all together is 40 minutes, and most of the entire 40 minutes was relevant to the story, so if they would have made the battle 4 minutes longer, then the final battle would have dragged on and on.

What does that even mean? My entire point is to have the fight drag on, so that they could actually have a good, satisfying fight at the end.

SlyTF1 wrote:It still would be cool to make it longer, but whats the point?

So Prime could actually fight the villain!

SlyTF1 wrote:They said all they had to say, and a 1 on 1 fight with giant robots wouldn't be all that interesting for 5 minutes. 3 minutes, yeah, but 5, no.

Use your imagination. We're talking about a superpowered jetpack-wearing Optimus Prime fighting a Transformer who happens to be one step below Unicron. There's a lot they could have done. They could have teleported to other planets. The Fallen could have shown off new powers, Prime could have shown abilities beyond "Fly, stab, and shoot." Ooh, here's a good one: At the end, Prime and the Fallen teleport back to Earth, and the Sun Harvester fires, and Prime throws the Fallen into the blast of energy, saving our Sun while killing the Fallen in a big blast of light.

#Sideways# wrote:Anyway, The Fallen was rather weak at the end, but I think I have an explanation for that. The Matrix Of Leadership. Nuff Said.

//Fixed that for you!

Prime didn't have the matrix, the Fallen did. And it was probably destroyed along with the Sun Harvester.

Notice Prime was stabbed with The Matrix and regained energy, and later defeats the bad guy. Kind of like the ending to Super Metroid.

But I agree, The Fallen should of Space Bridged Prime out into the sun and be done with it.

Another thing I'm rather disappointed with, Megatron got blasted on the face with a rocket, sure, fine, but now he has a scarred face like Two-Face? Please. He took more of a beating in the first movie, and came out unscarred. A SNOT LOAD OF MISSILES V.S. one missile, the one would not do as much damage as the Snot Load.

#Sideways# wrote:Another thing I'm rather disappointed with, Megatron got blasted on the face with a rocket, sure, fine, but now he has a scarred face like Two-Face? Please. He took more of a beating in the first movie, and came out unscarred. A SNOT LOAD OF MISSILES V.S. one missile, the one would not do as much damage as the Snot Load.

Megatron was NOT unscarred! He was liming, dripping blood, oil, energon or whatever the hell TFs bleed! Plus, those where HUMAN jets. It makes since for him to have his face blown off at point blank with his own fusion cannon that can CUT THROUGH 40 FEET OF STEEL WITH ONE BLAST!!!

Another thing I'm rather disappointed with, Megatron got blasted on the face with a rocket, sure, fine, but now he has a scarred face like Two-Face? Please. He took more of a beating in the first movie, and came out unscarred. A SNOT LOAD OF MISSILES V.S. one missile, the one would not do as much damage as the Snot Load.

Yeah...must not count that Megatron had taken tons of damage prior to fighting Prime.(again.) He fought Prime in the forest, he had the mega bomb dropped on him by the B1 bomber, which badly damaged Ironhide who was on the edge of the blast, and it completely blew apart longhaul in the air strikes. Soon as he cleared the blast and took out Sma, he was pelted with various soldier's and tanks weapons. He still managed to fly away despite showing sligns of being hindered. Then he finnally fought a Powered up Prime, got the hell beat out of him and ...still survived. Megatron is seriously durable if anything. I hardly see that as a bad showing. (heck he killed Prime even this film.)

You need to enter the movie with the right mindset. The Transformers movies are never going to be good movies. They are, however, fun movies. You shouldn't expect Citizen Kane from a movie about giant robots who fight each other and turn into sports cars. Transformers fans will never get the movie we want, because they need to market the movies to the average moviegoer. And the average moviegoer just wants to turn themselves off after a long week of work and enjoy a few explosions, breasts and dick jokes. And while Bay's movies fail to deliver the ungodly amounts of fanwank we come to expect from Transformers, they do succeed in giving a fun movie for people to watch while remembering fondly the days they spent on a playground banging their toys together and making explosion noises.

I have a soft spot for the movies because they reintroduced me to the Transformers franchise. I was a member of the Beast Wars/RID generation, and lost interest around when Armada came around. I saw the cool teaser trailer for the first movie and it intrigued me enough to dig out RID Scourge (the only toy I had been too attached to not to sell at a garage sale) from my closet and play around with him. I saw one of the toys (Movie Jazz) and noticed that they were a lot more complex than the Armada toys that turned me off to the franchise so long ago. One toy led to another and now I have a new hobby and terrible spending habits.

That's the most important thing that the movies did: they reintroduced teens and adults to the Transformers and helped to recruit a whole new generation of fans. So yes, the movies are by no stretch of the word good, but they are enjoyable and they've helped to make being a Transformers fan something that won't get you as many strange looks from the cashier at Target. (I know that look well, the "He's obviously too old to like Transformers, but definitely too young to have kids. Maybe he's developmentally disabled, I probably shouldn't make eye contact." look.)

Anyway, just remind yourself of the old MS3K Mantra: "It's just a show, I should really just relax."

SenorCardgage wrote:You need to enter the movie with the right mindset. The Transformers movies are never going to be good movies.

The problem here, though, is that some people don't like movies that aren't good.

SenorCardgage wrote:That's the most important thing that the movies did: they reintroduced teens and adults to the Transformers and helped to recruit a whole new generation of fans. So yes, the movies are by no stretch of the word good, but they are enjoyable and they've helped to make being a Transformers fan something that won't get you as many strange looks from the cashier at Target. (I know that look well, the "He's obviously too old to like Transformers, but definitely too young to have kids. Maybe he's developmentally disabled, I probably shouldn't make eye contact." look.)

I feel the same way!

Shadowman wrote:

SenorCardgage wrote:You need to enter the movie with the right mindset. The Transformers movies are never going to be good movies.

The problem here, though, is that some people don't like movies that aren't good.

And one person's idea of a good movie is always going to be different than someone else's. And, I dunno, there's some pretty terrible movies out there that I like...sometimes the really awful movies are the funnest to watch!

Stormer wrote:

Shadowman wrote:

SenorCardgage wrote:You need to enter the movie with the right mindset. The Transformers movies are never going to be good movies.

The problem here, though, is that some people don't like movies that aren't good.

And one person's idea of a good movie is always going to be different than someone else's. And, I dunno, there's some pretty terrible movies out there that I like...sometimes the really awful movies are the funnest to watch!

Yes, but many people don't have the "So bad it's good" setting on their brains. Just "bad" and "good," with "okay" or "average" being the only gray areas. You ever see something stupid, that you just hated it? I know you have, everyone has. Some people just have that standard set higher. Not calling anyone out here, there's nothing wrong with disliking bad movies.

I also re-read the first post and wanted to point this out, I dunno if anyone else has but I wanted to anyway:

SlyTF1 wrote:People say that it can't be morning in Washington and Egypt at the same time. It wasn't. Didn't you pay attention to anything? It was in the afternoon in DC and it was early in the morning in Egypt. Plus, the sun is huge, the sun is 108.97 times the size of earth, so I'm pretty sure it can effect a few hundred miles.

Geography lesson:

1. Washington DC is UTC-5, Egypt is UTC+2. That means that there is a seven-hour difference between the two. So, knowing they left the Smithsonian at closing time and assuming that time would be around 5PM (I don't claim to know their scheduling), to teleport to Egypt would put them there around midnight.

2. A few hundred miles East of DC would put you in the Atlantic ocean, and not very far into it.

This is, by the way, not the only instance of bad geography in ROTF. Apparently no one working on the movie owned a good map of Egypt because they got the locations of a lot of things very wrong.

I agree with each one of you, am totally enjoying following your discussion (and can happily say that I'm not surprised about it at all).

My two Energon points: There are categories within categories.

Opinions can change, so this is my view:

If these were the Beatles, we'd scream mindlessly and faint regardless of the performance. We are TF fans. Maybe the Trekkies wrote the book that we should have written for ourselves, rather than us having perhaps taken their MO move for move, but any which way, we will analyze what the movies mean to what the movies mean to us every time one is made.Like I've suggested elsewhere, we might be a headache to Hasbro, but other Toy Companies could only wish for a fanbase as dedicated to their lines, dare I say as defensive/protective (but perhaps unfortunately, possessive as well)...

I prefer everyones' mixed reaction to the films and especially the Bayverse fans active campaigning (in the good sense) to defend Bay from the Bay Bashers (tho there are categories within categories-and a Bay Basher might not be targeting or bashing Bay per se,Bay is there, a visible figurehead).

What I wish would change, tho, is this: I wish people wouldn't applaud one person for another persons successful/innovative/daring/whatever contribution (within the overall film), and wouldn't blame one for anothers (insert appropriate: mistake, accident, neglect, whatever) either.

A sample clarification,using Bays name but not necessarily bashing after second glance:
I wish folks wouldn't applaud (or blame) Michael Bay for the Transformers designed after the Banzai guys' stance, or applaud (or blame) Bay for the work ILM or anyone else did in a totally different area or department, or blame (or applaud) other groups for things Bay did.

Further, my Seibertron would be cosier for me if there began to be a conciously applied difference between the "movieverse" and the "Bayverse", especially if there'll be a new director coming in (gotta make the poor old soul feel welcome pre-emptively if we're gonna carry on coming across like a pack of attack trained loose cannons. otherwise nobody will want the Job of making the next 3 trilogies I dream for!!).
For instance, I personally don't consider Bumblebees' look to be a Bayverse design,because I don't feel Bay designed it at all or even really cared about it in the beginning,and tho I consider the Twins heads and some color schemes to be Bayverse special orders I am again uncertain if they were entirely Bay conceptions or partially (or even fully) designed by the writers.

I'm nobody with a final say, and those are my two Energon points.

You should have seen the blood spilled before and after the first movie and ROTF. My personal Vietnam. I haven't been following DOTM news as a result. But so far it seems things have cooled off. For now. I hope.

We call it the Bayverse because he's the director and it's his universe by default. Sure, he may not have designed Bumblebee, but he DID approve it and used it in the movie. The thing about movie directors is that they're the ones in charge. Everything that you see in a movie only happens because they let it happen. While we shouldn't give Bay credit or blame for the works of other people, we can still give him credit or blame for using it.

Also, I never cared for the Beatles.

Also, I never cared for the Beatles.

Shadowman offically has no soul...or sense of taste. As someone who grew up on transformers and classic rock thanks to my mom, I'm picturing a yellow submarine transforming and blowing up your house on the behalf of both fandoms. We can only hope heh it's that epic.

(disclaimer note: To transformers taking refuge on earth...don't actually blow up shadowman's house or property. He's allowed to dislike things regardless how awesome they are.)

Lastjustice wrote:

Also, I never cared for the Beatles.

Shadowman offically has no soul...or sense of taste. As someone who grew up on transformers and classic rock thanks to my mom, I'm picturing a yellow submarine transforming and blowing up your house on the behalf of both fandoms. We can only hope heh it's that epic.

(disclaimer note: To transformers taking refuge on earth...don't actually blow up shadowman's house or property. He's allowed to dislike things regardless how awesome they are.)

Sorry, it was just never my kind of music. I have no problems with classic rock, hell, my alarm clock is permanently set to a local rock station. Nothing beats waking up to The Who or Rolling Stones. But I never cared for the Beatles. Don't get me wrong, I respect the guys and what they did. I just never cared for their music.

So seriously, don't blow up my home because...well, you ever see Dr. Strangelove? I will neither confirm nor deny that I have a very similar setup to the one the Soviets had in that movie, and an attack on my home would result in the end of all life on Earth. Call me crazy, but I take home security very seriously.

(I can't believe I never posted here...)
Anyways, I second the 'Megatron is extremely durable' note. For one thing, on the...comical side, his face is technically the only face of Prime's enemies to survive ROTF, not to mention it survived a point blank blast from the same gun which killed Prime when at point blank (Though aided by death-claw sword thing). He was pretty tough in the first movie too, noticed a few holes in him from the missiles and he was still able to toss Prime around (I'd love to see M1 Megatron vs how awesome Prime was in ROTF).

But anyways on to the topic...when I saw ROTF, I was really amazed at the fight scenes, and Devastator(despite him not living up to his hype...either that or MudFlap has INSANELY strong armor) but the first half of the movie just kinda...annoyed me. Mostly, it was the humor, it just seemed...off written. It's not there's no place for humor it's just how they went about it that bugged me. The end scene also kinda took a looooong time to finish, the end fight itself was worth it, minus how weak The Fallen was, but the huge amount of time spent in that boring desert was well...boring. Also, I don't know if it's just me, but the attempt at making everything seem like a global war had no impact on me, it just didn't seem to work in this one. I think that one's just me though.

Shadowman wrote:We call it the Bayverse because he's the director and it's his universe by default. Sure, he may not have designed Bumblebee, but he DID approve it and used it in the movie. The thing about movie directors is that they're the ones in charge. Everything that you see in a movie only happens because they let it happen. While we shouldn't give Bay credit or blame for the works of other people, we can still give him credit or blame for using it.

.

Not true at all. In this case, Hasbro has the final word on character names, as well as designs. Cause ultimately, when toys and related merchandise are sold, its there name on the line. What Bay does have control over is how they are used in the movie as well as how they are portrayed. Things like putting flames on Optimus was Bay. That we know. He did have large pull on using Chevy branded vehicles for the autobots (being the first movie and having an auto manufacture donate the amount of vehicles they did, that benefited Hasbro to just go with it. And IMO, it paid off).

So no, Bay is not 100% to blame for things in the movie. But that being said he's not 100% responsible for its success either.

The first time I saw ROTF, I thought it was the greatest TF film ever (stupid I know), watching it 4 more times however, I was merely dissapointed. Not mad, just dissapointed. The movie could've have been better in certainb aspects, but overall it was pretty good. But the fact that people hate on it for all the wrong reasons just make me like the movie more. I pretty much agree with you Sly, even if I don't love ROTF anymore.

Slashercon wrote:The first time I saw ROTF, I thought it was the greatest TF film ever (stupid I know), watching it 4 more times however, I was merely dissapointed. Not mad, just dissapointed. The movie could've have been better in certainb aspects, but overall it was pretty good. But the fact that people hate on it for all the wrong reasons just make me like the movie more. I pretty much agree with you Sly, even if I don't love ROTF anymore.

That's not stupid. Even after seeing it 20 times, I think it's the greatest film ever period.

SlyTF1 wrote:

Slashercon wrote:The first time I saw ROTF, I thought it was the greatest TF film ever (stupid I know), watching it 4 more times however, I was merely dissapointed. Not mad, just dissapointed. The movie could've have been better in certainb aspects, but overall it was pretty good. But the fact that people hate on it for all the wrong reasons just make me like the movie more. I pretty much agree with you Sly, even if I don't love ROTF anymore.

That's not stupid. Even after seeing it 20 times, I think it's the greatest film ever period.

Agreed on this one. Never feel guilty for being entertained by something. It's all for fun.