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[chivesbot20]

I agree with sub-prime and NoDeathForProwl. And with Optimus killing Sentinal its because his father figure turned against him. If your guardian figure turned against you to team up with " the bully at school" . It tore him on the inside that's all. Optimus was conveying emotion and optimus probably lost trust in Sentinal and avenged Ironhides death.

[Sabrblade]

I agree with sub-prime and NoDeathForProwl. And with Optimus killing Sentinal its because his father figure turned against him. If your guardian figure turned against you to team up with " the bully at school" . It tore him on the inside that's all. Optimus was conveying emotion and optimus probably lost trust in Sentinal and avenged Ironhides death.

If your own father who loved and cared for you suddenly turned on you, then that makes it right for you to kill him? Terrible analogy, man. Just terrible.

[chivesbot20]

Its actually pretty good considering it WAS the exact same situation for Optimus and Sentinal.But than whats your analogy.

[SlyTF1]

I agree with sub-prime and NoDeathForProwl. And with Optimus killing Sentinal its because his father figure turned against him. If your guardian figure turned against you to team up with " the bully at school" . It tore him on the inside that's all. Optimus was conveying emotion and optimus probably lost trust in Sentinal and avenged Ironhides death.

If your own father who loved and cared for you suddenly turned on you, then that makes it right for you to kill him? Terrible analogy, man. Just terrible.

I'd say so. Especially if he cost hundreds of other lives.

[SKYWARPED_128]

I agree with sub-prime and NoDeathForProwl. And with Optimus killing Sentinal its because his father figure turned against him. If your guardian figure turned against you to team up with " the bully at school" . It tore him on the inside that's all. Optimus was conveying emotion and optimus probably lost trust in Sentinal and avenged Ironhides death.

Regarding Ironhide, all they had to do was switch up the dialogue a bit. Throw out some of that self-righteous crap about good and honor, and have Optimus say something more personal.

(Finale)

Sentinel: "Optimus... all I ever wanted... was the survival of our race... You must see why I had to betray you..."

Optimus Prime: [picks up Megatron's gun] "Tell that to Ironhide".

That single sentence would have shown Optimus' thoughts and intentions about avenging Ironhide.

[Sub-Prime]

You know what y'all stick to your G1 style of battles that go no where for seasons. In TF Prime I like that robots died almost every episode even if it's foot soldiers for the most part. In war there will be casualties and I guess we as Americans like to sugarcoat the fact of it. If battles were waged and no deaths come of it the critics would have another thing to complain about. I probably would hate movie Optimus being like G1 Optimus 100%. A fight breaks out only to hear Megatron scream retreat would piss me off while watching it. It's illogical!

[Rodimus Prime]

I still can't see why folks like the last 3 more than AOE. It baffles me!

That's the problem with most people in this debate, on both sides. It baffles them that someone has an opinion different than theirs.

A fight breaks out only to hear Megatron scream retreat would piss me off while watching it. It's illogical!

It's illogical to have a retreat ordered in a battle when you know you're going to lose? You would rather continue the fight and send all your soldiers to their deaths? Man, I hope no squad will let you strategize a fight for them, much less lead them into battle, you'd get them all killed!

[Sabrblade]

FWIW, G1 Optimus and the G1 cartoon are overrated.

[Sub-Prime]

I still can't see why folks like the last 3 more than AOE. It baffles me!

That's the problem with most people in this debate, on both sides. It baffles them that someone has an opinion different than theirs.

A fight breaks out only to hear Megatron scream retreat would piss me off while watching it. It's illogical!

It's illogical to have a retreat ordered in a battle when you know you're going to lose? You would rather continue the fight and send all your soldiers to their deaths? Man, I hope no squad will let you strategize a fight for them, much less lead them into battle, you'd get them all killed!

You fail to grasp my point so let me explain it well. In G1 there were plenty of battles waged and nobody died.That's what folks want for the movies.A more kid inspired type movie! Show me a time in human history where battles were waged and had no casualties? Especially considering these robots have deadly weaponry.

[Sabrblade]

You fail to grasp my point so let me explain it well. In G1 there were plenty of battles waged and nobody died.That's what folks want for the movies.

Not everyone wants that. G1 ain't the end all be all for non-Movie Transformers.

A more kid inspired type movie!

Would that really be so bad, considering that this is a kids toy brand anyway?

Show me a time in human history where battles were waged and had no casualties? Especially considering these robots have deadly weaponry.

Show me a time in human history where battles were something endearing and entertaining, rather than grotesque and bitter, to watch. Especially considering that these robots are trying to sell toys to grade schoolers.

[Sub-Prime]

One thing G1 and movieverse share in common is that both weren't perfect. It's funny to me to see folks saying it was perfect in comparison to the movies when they are both equally fun in their own ways and also equally critical in a negative way. But I still like em even with flaws and all. Transformers Prime was probably the best iteration IMO because it blended the movieverse with the cartoon world of TF perfectly.

[ZeroWolf]

To be fair sarblade what about the gladiator battles of Rome? Do they count. However you are right, which was a point I was trying to make last page. Kids are the target market, for the entire brand with some exceptions. Hence why the new toon is aimed at a lower crowd, some of which will stay with the brand for life. Again, I point out that the perfect movie will never be made, as no one will be able to agree what the perfect movie is!

[Sabrblade]

To be fair sarblade what about the gladiator battles of Rome? Do they count.

Hmm, well, those could get pretty graphic and bloody too, but then that's what a lot of those events' spectators went there to see (as sickminded as that sounds), so the waters might be a bit muddied (or bloodied ) on that one.

However you are right, which was a point I was trying to make last page. Kids are the target market, for the entire brand with some exceptions. Hence why the new toon is aimed at a lower crowd, some of which will stay with the brand for life. Again, I point out that the perfect movie will never be made, as no one will be able to agree what the perfect movie is!

It strikes me as though these films are afraid of seeming even remotely like something for kids or nerds, trying to be as dark and edgy as they can get, like an insecure male teenager who arbitrarily condemns anything cute or silly as a shallow means to assert his manhood and "maturity".

[Sabrblade]

dp

[Sub-Prime]

Kids aren't really the ones who are big TF fans. I'm sure most of the guys on here is early 20s to possible 40s. I was born 3 days before G1 first aired. I make 30 when TF makes 30. I can't beleive you guys want TF movies to feel like a Disney and Pixar film..lol. That's when these movies will fail epically.

[Sabrblade]

I can't beleive you guys want TF movies to feel like a Disney and Pixar film..lol. That's when these movies will fail epically.

Disney and Pixar film... fail epically... Such strange words you speak.

[Sub-Prime]

Cartoon movies can fail too. I think Planes failed at the box office. But I can only imagine a TF film in a Disney/Pixar style where both the bots and cons barely have any real conflict for the sake of the children in the audience.

[Sabrblade]

Cartoon movies can fail too. I think Planes failed at the box office.

Planes wasn't Pixar, and exists only as a cheap cashgrab rather than as anything decent.

But I can only imagine a TF film in a Disney/Pixar style where both the bots and cons barely have any real conflict for the sake of the children in the audience.

Clearly it has been a while since you've seen any Disney/Pixar film.

But then again, you can't really use Disney and Pixar as any example since they've rarely ever made any war/combat movies to adequately compare the TF movies to.

[Sub-Prime]

I grew out of TF when I got older because everything they had was too kid inspired for me. The 2007 movie is what brought me back to it and countless others. I thought TF Prime was going to be another kiddy TF show until I watched the first episode. It was then I realized the writers cared for a older crowd of TF lovers. That rescue bots crap I would never watch. The new cartoon for 2015 looks like it might be horrible.

My favorte things from TF is the last couple years is the

1. Live action movies
2. War and Fall of Cybertron games
3. Transformers Prime.

None of these felt kiddy to me one bit.

[Sabrblade]

Transformers is for kids.

[chivesbot20]

Im a kid

[Sabrblade]

Granted, it isn't easy to tell how old some users on here are when not everyone's ages are viewable in their profiles.

[Rodimus Prime]

like an insecure male teenager who arbitrarily condemns anything cute or silly as a shallow means to assert his manhood and "maturity".

You just described Michael Bay's mentality as a director of these films. He's great at actions scenes, no doubt.

[Sub-Prime]

This debate really engrave in my head that there will never be a Transformers live action movie that a lot of folks can agree on. I think if the 4 movies were made to be for 5 year olds I would be like the guy who was hating on Bay a couple pages back. When they do reboot TF films if they go the opposite route the franchise won't see a dime of my money. You can't please everybody.

[ZeroWolf]

To be fair sarblade what about the gladiator battles of Rome? Do they count.

Hmm, well, those could get pretty graphic and bloody too, but then that's what a lot of those events' spectators went there to see (as sickminded as that sounds), so the waters might be a bit muddied (or bloodied ) on that one.

However you are right, which was a point I was trying to make last page. Kids are the target market, for the entire brand with some exceptions. Hence why the new toon is aimed at a lower crowd, some of which will stay with the brand for life. Again, I point out that the perfect movie will never be made, as no one will be able to agree what the perfect movie is!

It strikes me as though these films are afraid of seeming even remotely like something for kids or nerds, trying to be as dark and edgy as they can get, like an insecure male teenager who arbitrarily condemns anything cute or silly
as a shallow means to assert his manhood and "maturity".

It may be because of the trend in movies was 'dark is cool' at the time, Batman Begins had successfully restarted the movie franchise with it's dark realism (not a fan of this however), so it wouldn't surprise me if that trend had an impact on how transformers developed. Could also explain why prime himself had such a darker personality (although I don't want to open that can of worms again, my take is that I can separate him from other primes but I wouldn't have him as a leader, there is too much difference between what he says and does)

Anyway, I'll second the transformers are for kids sentiment, but once you make peace with it, you can really start to enjoy yourself, and enjoying it with the true target audience is the best feeling of all

Also Sub-Prime two things:
1) kids are just as much fans of TF as us, afterall we were once in the same position as them, how would you have felt if an adult came over to you and said you weren't as big as a fan then him/her?

2) Pixar rock, they know how to tell a story and get emotion out of it, like the Toy Story trilogy and up (especially the beginning of Up), sure Pixar do fall down, but they're only human.

Now though I realize what kind of TF movie I would like to see, a movie I can watch safely with my two boys when they are old enough. A TF movie that can cross generations. Of course I have no idea how to achieve this but it should be possible, not that it would happen I think