The Energon Pub

I'm glad to see iGear is making this piece so I know I don't have to worry about the November release and will not be available till next year.

Oh, people are always sounding the alarm when it comes to high quality 3rd party products.

FP, iGear, Justi Toys, and Impossible Toys are all glorified KO companies. None of them have a licence to produce TF stuff. Hasbro / Takara will always be hanging that axe over their heads and it will drop at any moment. So enjoy this stuff while it lasts, I say!

All I saw was Optimus' right hand doing the Shocker. That's awesome.

Gauntlet101010 wrote:Oh, people are always sounding the alarm when it comes to high quality 3rd party products.

FP, iGear, Justi Toys, and Impossible Toys are all glorified KO companies. None of them have a licence to produce TF stuff. Hasbro / Takara will always be hanging that axe over their heads and it will drop at any moment. So enjoy this stuff while it lasts, I say!

The axe is hanging but I imagine that the axe would have a good chance of dipping lower when a situation arises like the Miniature MP Optimus Prime product is introducted. It's true that products such as the City Commander add on is made for a Transformer and its concept is inspired by the G1 Ultra Magnus toy but iGear's mini MP OP closely replicates the original MP OP sculpt with two differences: The scale of the figure and the additional head sculpt. These two differences won't be enough to distinguish the product from the original MP OP if the finished product is as good as the prototypes appear.

I doubt Hasbro and Takara will look at something like City Commander in an entirely negative light. First of all, it isn't taking away business from the companies because it's a unique design. Secondly, it can be argued that such an add on will help the companies because the add on creates a desire to have the core original product being the Classics/Henkei Optimus Prime/Convoy.

If iGear's mini MP OP ends up being as good as the prototypes appear, it can be seen as an alternative to the official MP OP, and that's when a company will likely look at the situation as a potential threat to them because now it's not about an add on but a possibly cheaper option for people who would have purchased a Has-Tak MP OP before the emergence of the mini MP OP.

WST does have a similar situation of high quality replications of a different scale but they are pretty darn small whereas the mini MP OP is down to roughly large Deluxe or small Voyager class(it looks like it's the same scale as Classics/Henkei OP/Convoy) where the original is about Leader class. It's not a tiny replica and for those who want to display a masterpiece quality product and do not have a lot of money to spend, the mini MP OP can be an attractive alternative.

That being said, I DON'T want any problems coming from the production of the mini MP OP, I also do want it(I don't have an MP OP yet) but a figure replication product can't be put in the same boat as an add on product such as the City Commander.

The difference between these 3rd party companies and KO companies are fan-made use fan-related logic. The only difference between a KO company that may heavily modify an existing mold or give it superfluous add-ons is quality. That's it.

Fan-made companies tread on HasTak's intellectual property at the very least. At most they copy a mold. The confusion people are having is the quality, which is better than most KOs you can pick up in China Town and because they are making things we fans want to see. But the actions they are taking is really no different that what KO companies do. They are all just as illegitimate be they add-ons or mold copies.

That said, mini Prime runs a greater risk because they are copying the Autobot symbol. Even most KO companies try to avoid that. But again, it doesn't make an already illegitimate TF toy less legitimate. It just makes it somewhat more brazen.

Every single time 3rd party companies make anything the axe starts swinging. Be it your new Arcee toy to the Protector armor to this. This is just ... reality. I'll bet iGear and FP and everyone else knows that at any moment HasTak can come knocking. But the alternative is to just stop. So, all I'm saying, is that we should all just be aware that it could end at any time and that any product that's announced could be the last and enjoy it while it lasts.

Gauntlet101010 wrote:The difference between these 3rd party companies and KO companies are fan-made use fan-related logic. The only difference between a KO company that may heavily modify an existing mold or give it superfluous add-ons is quality. That's it.

Fan-made companies tread on HasTak's intellectual property at the very least. At most they copy a mold. The confusion people are having is the quality, which is better than most KOs you can pick up in China Town and because they are making things we fans want to see. But the actions they are taking is really no different that what KO companies do. They are all just as illegitimate be they add-ons or mold copies.

That said, mini Prime runs a greater risk because they are copying the Autobot symbol. Even most KO companies try to avoid that. But again, it doesn't make an already illegitimate TF toy less legitimate. It just makes it somewhat more brazen.

Every single time 3rd party companies make anything the axe starts swinging. Be it your new Arcee toy to the Protector armor to this. This is just ... reality. I'll bet iGear and FP and everyone else knows that at any moment HasTak can come knocking. But the alternative is to just stop. So, all I'm saying, is that we should all just be aware that it could end at any time and that any product that's announced could be the last and enjoy it while it lasts.

Realistically, any action by Hasbro/Takara will actually only make it harder for fans to buy this stuff. Hasbro can't stop these 3rd part groups at all. Just like they can't stop KO makers. But they can stop the retailers. For example, a store called Ages Three and Up use to operate here in Vancouver, along with a online store. They carried official Hasbro products, but also brought in G1 KOs and advertised them as such. Hasbro sent them a legal letter, which stopped them from selling the KOs. I would say it hurt them, as they had inventory that could not be moved. For the customers who were planning to buy, they would just have to move on and find another seller.

I expect if Hasbro or Takara makes a move, it will be similar to what happened to A3U. Also to add, Hasbro said their fine with the addons. They do have issues with those making full figures and charging over $100 for them. This was said at BotCon and in a previous TFCC newsletter.

Venksta wrote:Also to add, Hasbro said their fine with the addons. They do have issues with those making full figures and charging over $100 for them. This was said at BotCon and in a previous TFCC newsletter.

Excellent. At least now I know where Hasbro stands on 3rd party products. So add ons should be safe for the foreseeable future. Hmm, I don't know if I'll buy the mini MP OP if it's ever produced because while I'd like to support 3rd party companies, I don't want to support products that could lead to hindering future 3rd party efforts.

Venksta wrote:

Gauntlet101010 wrote:The difference between these 3rd party companies and KO companies are fan-made use fan-related logic. The only difference between a KO company that may heavily modify an existing mold or give it superfluous add-ons is quality. That's it.

Fan-made companies tread on HasTak's intellectual property at the very least. At most they copy a mold. The confusion people are having is the quality, which is better than most KOs you can pick up in China Town and because they are making things we fans want to see. But the actions they are taking is really no different that what KO companies do. They are all just as illegitimate be they add-ons or mold copies.

That said, mini Prime runs a greater risk because they are copying the Autobot symbol. Even most KO companies try to avoid that. But again, it doesn't make an already illegitimate TF toy less legitimate. It just makes it somewhat more brazen.

Every single time 3rd party companies make anything the axe starts swinging. Be it your new Arcee toy to the Protector armor to this. This is just ... reality. I'll bet iGear and FP and everyone else knows that at any moment HasTak can come knocking. But the alternative is to just stop. So, all I'm saying, is that we should all just be aware that it could end at any time and that any product that's announced could be the last and enjoy it while it lasts.

Realistically, any action by Hasbro/Takara will actually only make it harder for fans to buy this stuff. Hasbro can't stop these 3rd part groups at all. Just like they can't stop KO makers. But they can stop the retailers. For example, a store called Ages Three and Up use to operate here in Vancouver, along with a online store. They carried official Hasbro products, but also brought in G1 KOs and advertised them as such. Hasbro sent them a legal letter, which stopped them from selling the KOs. I would say it hurt them, as they had inventory that could not be moved. For the customers who were planning to buy, they would just have to move on and find another seller.

I expect if Hasbro or Takara makes a move, it will be similar to what happened to A3U. Also to add, Hasbro said their fine with the addons. They do have issues with those making full figures and charging over $100 for them. This was said at BotCon and in a previous TFCC newsletter.

Okay, that's probably what'd happen.

I didn't see anything with them being fine with add-ons. Even so ... I don't see any difference. Either way we don't need to scramble the jets every time a 3rd party company decides it's gonna make something "iffy".

this guy would go great with g3 trailer- if it would hook in - i asked BBTS if they were going to carrie him- so i could get my perorder in when ready -they said that they would not be ordering these-- i hope that is wrong-

Just buy it elsewhere. BBTS isn't the only shop in the sea.

It won't hook up with the G3 trailer. The legs too too big to fit under there. And it lacks the squar connecter peg. Maybe iGear will make a trailer for it in the future, though.

I've noticed that the 3rd picture his mouthplate seems to be a little different, without those sidecurves. I like it better that way. I can't find this new project of theirs on their site though.

I do have some minor points because I have the MP-04 and some details bothers me.

1. To activate the light of the matrix you have to press a button on his shoulder that is prominent blue... please a little less obvious..

2. His windows unfortunately aren't blue... though the artwork on the box indicates it is... and they don't necessary to be transparent, at least to me.

3. I have some problems keeping his gun tight & secured to his hand.

4. Make the gun BLACK like the Ultra Magnus version instead of grey and blue.

5. Record the voice of Peter Cullen as he says in the cartoon: Autobots Transform and roll out! and make that button on the back of his head instead of moving his mouthplate.

Hopefully they like some of my ideas!!

If this is the size of the Classics Prime it would be awesome if the G3 Fansproject trailer could attach.

Gauntlet101010 wrote:

Venksta wrote:

Gauntlet101010 wrote:The difference between these 3rd party companies and KO companies are fan-made use fan-related logic. The only difference between a KO company that may heavily modify an existing mold or give it superfluous add-ons is quality. That's it.

Fan-made companies tread on HasTak's intellectual property at the very least. At most they copy a mold. The confusion people are having is the quality, which is better than most KOs you can pick up in China Town and because they are making things we fans want to see. But the actions they are taking is really no different that what KO companies do. They are all just as illegitimate be they add-ons or mold copies.

That said, mini Prime runs a greater risk because they are copying the Autobot symbol. Even most KO companies try to avoid that. But again, it doesn't make an already illegitimate TF toy less legitimate. It just makes it somewhat more brazen.

Every single time 3rd party companies make anything the axe starts swinging. Be it your new Arcee toy to the Protector armor to this. This is just ... reality. I'll bet iGear and FP and everyone else knows that at any moment HasTak can come knocking. But the alternative is to just stop. So, all I'm saying, is that we should all just be aware that it could end at any time and that any product that's announced could be the last and enjoy it while it lasts.

Realistically, any action by Hasbro/Takara will actually only make it harder for fans to buy this stuff. Hasbro can't stop these 3rd part groups at all. Just like they can't stop KO makers. But they can stop the retailers. For example, a store called Ages Three and Up use to operate here in Vancouver, along with a online store. They carried official Hasbro products, but also brought in G1 KOs and advertised them as such. Hasbro sent them a legal letter, which stopped them from selling the KOs. I would say it hurt them, as they had inventory that could not be moved. For the customers who were planning to buy, they would just have to move on and find another seller.

I expect if Hasbro or Takara makes a move, it will be similar to what happened to A3U. Also to add, Hasbro said their fine with the addons. They do have issues with those making full figures and charging over $100 for them. This was said at BotCon and in a previous TFCC newsletter.

Okay, that's probably what'd happen.

I didn't see anything with them being fine with add-ons. Even so ... I don't see any difference. Either way we don't need to scramble the jets every time a 3rd party company decides it's gonna make something "iffy".

Don't think there's anything wrong with getting a little antsy about products like this-it's not that I don't like the idea of this figure, and I will probably get it IF iGear continues to make high quality products. However, the volume of over or under sized KOs starting to come out of them could eventually make their lives really difficult-and even you acknowledge that.

I'll also modify my stance on FP to one that's in line with some earlier comments. If FP continues to make add-ons that actually support the sale of their branded figures (how many people actually went out and purchased Hot Rod when the Protector armor was teased?), Hasbro ad Takara will probably leave them alone. Up to now, they've been enhancing their brands and products and promoting sales. But when these guys get into the figure business, that's where they could potentially get messy for them.

As you've put it and I'm rephrasing, they all live by the sword and could potentially die by it.

Gauntlet101010 wrote:It won't hook up with the G3 trailer. The legs too too big to fit under there. And it lacks the squar connecter peg. Maybe iGear will make a trailer for it in the future, though.

You're probably right about the peg, but the legs WILL fit. It does look a little off with the FP trailer, though. I would not be at all surprised if i-gear scaled down their TG-004 for it.

metaphorge wrote:

Gauntlet101010 wrote:It won't hook up with the G3 trailer. The legs too too big to fit under there. And it lacks the squar connecter peg. Maybe iGear will make a trailer for it in the future, though.

You're probably right about the peg, but the legs WILL fit. It does look a little off with the FP trailer, though. I would not be at all surprised if i-gear scaled down their TG-004 for it.

You know, usually I hate being wrong, but right now I'm loving it. Awsome! I didn't think it's be possible.

As you've put it and I'm rephrasing, they all live by the sword and could potentially die by it.

Yep, that's the deal. iGear, Fansprojects, and all the rest are going into this with their eyes wide open. I don't think it's something that can last forever. Every single project brings them, potentially, the wrath of HasTak, but the alternative is to just stop.

Gauntlet101010 wrote:Yep, that's the deal. iGear, Fansprojects, and all the rest are going into this with their eyes wide open. I don't think it's something that can last forever. Every single project brings them, potentially, the wrath of HasTak, but the alternative is to just stop.

Well, one of the alternatives is to simply not create products that have more likelihood to invoke the wrath of Hasbro and Takara. Hasbro made it clear to the public and to 3rd party producers that one of the things on their radar is expensive($100+) full figure products. So if the mini MP OP is finished and is sold at a price of over $100 then iGear is pretty stupid for not heeding Hasbro's warning.

If Hasbro says they don't have issues with add ons at this time as Venksta said then I think 3rd party producers like Fansproject are safe for the time being because they're smart enough to not cross the line that Hasbro has drawn. The Knight Morpher project by Master Mind Creation is near that line as a full figure product but doesn't cross it because it isn't priced at over $100.

Convotron wrote:

Gauntlet101010 wrote:Yep, that's the deal. iGear, Fansprojects, and all the rest are going into this with their eyes wide open. I don't think it's something that can last forever. Every single project brings them, potentially, the wrath of HasTak, but the alternative is to just stop.

Well, one of the alternatives is to simply not create products that have more likelihood to invoke the wrath of Hasbro and Takara. Hasbro made it clear to the public and to 3rd party producers that one of the things on their radar is expensive($100+) full figure products. So if the mini MP OP is finished and is sold at a price of over $100 then iGear is pretty stupid for not heeding Hasbro's warning.

If Hasbro says they don't have issues with add ons at this time as Venksta said then I think 3rd party producers like Fansproject are safe for the time being because they're smart enough to not cross the line that Hasbro has drawn. The Knight Morpher project by Master Mind Creation is near that line as a full figure product but doesn't cross it because it isn't priced at over $100.

I got the feeling off of Hasbro's statement that they simply don't want to see any of these groups making this into a business, and getting rich. As long as its done for fun/hobby, it'll be ok with them. Something FansProject stated in their interview with Seibertron, that the FP stuff is all a hobby, and they actually have full time jobs.

Though, with iGears, and at the rate they announce their products, I wouldn't be surprised if they really are a company, compared to a couple of fans doing all this. I can't see them having the time for all this and a full time job. Also to note, it seems you can buy directly from iGears. Their prices are the same as BBTS. So they'll be getting some more cash then have their products sold by retailers.

http://www.igear.tf08.net/?page_id=223

Venksta wrote:I got the feeling off of Hasbro's statement that they simply don't want to see any of these groups making this into a business, and getting rich. As long as its done for fun/hobby, it'll be ok with them. Something FansProject stated in their interview with Seibertron, that the FP stuff is all a hobby, and they actually have full time jobs.

Though, with iGears, and at the rate they announce their products, I wouldn't be surprised if they really are a company, compared to a couple of fans doing all this. I can't see them having the time for all this and a full time job. Also to note, it seems you can buy directly from iGears. Their prices are the same as BBTS. So they'll be getting some more cash then have their products sold by retailers.

http://www.igear.tf08.net/?page_id=223

Yeah, I've gotten the impression from FP that they are simply a fan comprised group. iGear seems more "professional", for a lack of a better term, with respect to how things seem to be run. Considering their offerings, not only the number of them but the way the extensive scale of the products like the computer base set, they have much more to be concerned about from Hasbro than FP.

iGear has barely released anything as of yet. Sure they've made a lot of announcements, but the goods have only trickled out. Not very professional IMHO.

These guys will produce what they'll produce. If iGear wants to tread the line ... so be it, I say. There's only so far you can go making small accessories. Eventually they'll wanna make their own full figures.

Seriously guys we've had a bazillion knock offs of MP prime, so a scaled KO isn't such a big deal in the grand scheme of things, and as far as I am concerned.. I seriously Doubt Hasbro or Takara Tomy is going to be swinging any axes any time soon..they would have done it 3 years ago when all the MP optimus Primes were coming out, or 10 Years ago with all the other KO's.. the difference is that these newer figures have some tender loving care and attention to detail.. so us collectors take notice.. an just because we like them doesn't mean that Hasbro or Takara aren't just dismissing them as KO's like all the rest that have shown up..

let's stop making this thing bigger then it should be, so Hasbro/Takara don't finally decided to step up and we are screwed out of any 3rd party merchandise..