The Energon Pub

I don't think 10 year old TF toys are Obsolete or out of scale Because adults buy 3rd party toys not kids.

TF toy tech has vastly improved from 30 years ago. Tech hasn't improved much from 4-10 years ago.

Stuff is older & obsolete more for kids because they replace things quicker due to them breaking stuff,getting bored & throwing more stuff out.

Adult TF fans are hoarders they don't break anything or throw anything out. Most still have rooms chock full of TF toys released from 10 years ago.

Saying stuff like KFC UM is old scale & doesn't fit in with newer scaled toys,Thus isn't worth buyer. Makes no sense coming from a Adult TF fan hoarder. It doesn't have to fit in with scaled toys made from 2012-2014. If you've got a room chock full of toys from 10 years ago,Why can't you just place KFC UM on a shelf next to MP-01,MP-05,MP-22 & Armade super Mode Prime.

I don't get why some like X,Get overly bent out of shape in only wanting one newer updated toy line scale. If a room is chock full of over 100 TF toys on over 20 shelves,Why can't various shelves have different newer & older scales & themes on them?

I can totally understand not wanting to buy based off KFC's bad QC record. This at least is a valid reason. Waiting to buy until others have video reviewed the toy totally makes sense. As these toys are not cheaply priced. It's understandable not to wanting to rush spending the big bucks. Because lets face it nobody wants to have a exspensive toy break apart in there hands or overly riddled with QC issues.

In closing,Some like X are wrong about Hasbro setting a newer TF toy scale Bible. If TF toy history has taught us anything,This newer scale is bound to change in a few years. No HasTak TF toy scale is set in stone. Scales change whenever HasTak makes newer toys. whenever newer clueless employees join the team. it's a endless cycles of going up & down in scales for HasTak. HasTak doesn't care about giving character toys wrong scales like some fans think they do,2.0 is proof of this. For Hastak it's less about pleasing fans & more about making money. HasTak changes the scale to meet the demands of the ecomony & what they think the buyers can afford in that time frame.

Scale in the classics line was screwed from day 1. You have a small deluxe in Starscream and a regular deluxe in Bumblebee, making BB look beefier than Screamer. And it really hasn't gotten any better. I'm not sure if there is a "new scale" or "old scale" as much as there is a "small deluxe" scale and a "regular deluxe" scale.

I don't think things have gotten better over time. Not really. You have guys like Skids who are small deluxe and FP' Stunticons who are the same. And then you have guys like Hegemon and Orion (who don't size well with each other). Orion looks decent enough with the Autobots - they're all regular deluxe size and, if not, at least look right next to each other. But Hegemon dwarfs the cons. You need a guy like FoC Soundwave to get the scale right. iGear's seekers will help too (too bad I'm not too sure about their look).

And then you have what seems to be height competitions. Toyworld outdoing Hegemon's height with Orion. FP outdoing their Superion with Bruticus and MT outdoing that with Giant and Giant being outdone by Intimidator. TFC is much the same.

Anyway, I guess my point is ... I'll just get what looks right to me. Thinking about scale too much is troublesome.

Gauntlet101010 wrote: Scale in the classics line was screwed from day 1. I don't think things have gotten better over time. Not really.

Yeah,I'm also not willing to get overly crazy trying to match 3rd party scale with HasTak scale. Due to each 3rd party company creating there own rules & scale. HasTak cares more about profits & is only willing to please the fans so much as a result.

2.0 had the worse character toy scale i've ever seen. The 2011's Generations toy line gave almost everyone deluxe toys regardless if it made sense or not. 30th gave all those IDW bigger characters deluxe toys.

There is no Permanent newer scale for the fans catered lines like MP & Generations. Like some fans are overly convinced HasTak is hard at work creating. Scales will drastically change every 1-3 years,as they always do. As HasTak creates newer toys & scale to cater to the needs of what they calculate that projected time frame will desire & buy. Based of the Economy,latest fads & competitors products.

Gauntlet101010 wrote: Anyway, I guess my point is ... I'll just get what looks right to me. Thinking about scale too much is troublesome.

I feel the same way. I'm too old to get overly frustrated or get Bent out of shape. I have no desire to lay awake at night worrying about properly scaled plastic toys on my display shelves. The older I get the more lazy & the less,I care. I could care less about mixing various scales & different toy lines on the same shelves.

Scale is not an exact thing. The cartoon was all over the place, the Marvel comics had giant characters like Omega Supreme, Scorponok, ans Fortress Maximus go from towering monstrosities to slightly taller regular dudes in the span of a few issues. A new big toy meant a huge character but a couple month later when the shine's worn off they like a head or two taller then regular bots. Then Buzzsaw killed Omega Supreme. Scale never mattered in fiction. If a toy is a half inch too large or small I guarantee you can find something of them worse in fiction. And don't get me started on altmode scaling. The minibots in season 2 alone range from a dune buggy to a tank the a A-10 Thunderbolt to a hovercraft to a desk bell but all the botmodes are the same size. Altmode scaling alone wold make sure half the season 2 Autobots never get toys again.

Oh, and it was Cosmos. The desk bell joke was about Cosmos.

Can you not throw the term "hoarder" around?

If my wife learns it, I'm dead meat.

zodconvoy wrote:Scale is not an exact thing. The cartoon was all over the place, the Marvel comics had giant characters like Omega Supreme, Scorponok, ans Fortress Maximus go from towering monstrosities to slightly taller regular dudes in the span of a few issues. A new big toy meant a huge character but a couple month later when the shine's worn off they like a head or two taller then regular bots. Then Buzzsaw killed Omega Supreme. Scale never mattered in fiction. If a toy is a half inch too large or small I guarantee you can find something of them worse in fiction. And don't get me started on altmode scaling. The minibots in season 2 alone range from a dune buggy to a tank the a A-10 Thunderbolt to a hovercraft to a desk bell but all the botmodes are the same size. Altmode scaling alone wold make sure half the season 2 Autobots never get toys again.

Oh, and it was Cosmos. The desk bell joke was about Cosmos.

Some fans,Don't quite understand the lazy & cheap reasons. that dictated toy translations versions scale. in the 1980's TF cartoons & comics.

fort max & scorponok were Optimus scale. Because Marvel was too lazy & cheap to draw the huge,detailed bigger city former scale art.

The cartoon era back then was different. QC & scale were wrong or poor on purpose to save money & time.

The 1984-1987 TF cartoons & comics were cheaply made,low quailty things even for their era.

If you make one more post antagonizing X, I am going to snap.

Just frigging stop it already.

Gauntlet101010 wrote:I'll just get what looks right to me. Thinking about scale too much is troublesome.

thank you for this. "scaling" has been such an annoying topic lately, and ive never given it much thought until recently because of all these threads. the only line i want things scaled properly is MP. and even then i can let things slide. so long as things are moderately accurate, i dont care.

you think you know scaling pain? im a beast machines fan. and i can still live with those toys.

Some like X realize this:

The 80's G1 toys were designed to be toys and nothing more. The cartoon/comic took the toys and made much needed improvements, one of them being scale. Most adult G1 fans were kids in the 1980's and didn't own every G1 toy and have no attachment to G1 toy accuracy (including but not limited to scale) They grew up with the G1 cartoon and couldn't wait to get home from school every day and watch it. The cartoon is their bible (and the comic for some) My point is most classics collectors don't give a crap about toy accuracy because they don't look at the characters as homages to kiddie toys. They look at them as living beings like they are portrayed in the fiction. That's how the classics line was born in the first place. Fans wanted G1 character figures that looked lifelike, not like the toy they saw as a kid. Anything cartoon accurate gives them a sense of satisfaction that the original G1 toys never gave them. In a nutshell, if you care so much about vintage G1 toy specifications, go collect vintage G1 toys. Leave the classics and MP figures alone. They're obviously not for you.

Blurrz wrote:If you make one more post antagonizing X, I am going to snap.

Just frigging stop it already.

I'm a humble guy. No offense taken because he just seeks answers. I honestly tried to answer his question from my point of view. I don't think he will get it, but hey I tried...

Tsutsukakushi wrote:I don't think 10 year old TF toys are Obsolete or out of scale Because adults buy 3rd party toys not kids.

I've been pondering this sentence for a full day and I have no idea what you mean by it.

TF toy tech has vastly improved from 30 years ago. Tech hasn't improved much from 4-10 years ago.

Debatable. The movie lines certainly brought some interesting engineering designs. Of course in doing so they made the figures so fiddly that it turned some people away for TFs. The fact that they're returning to simpler designs should in no way indicate a lack of progress in Transformers engineering. b That's why we have Masterpiece figures.

Stuff is older & obsolete more for kids because they replace things quicker due to them breaking stuff,getting bored & throwing more stuff out.

Also kids have this nasty habit of growing up, discovering the opposite sex is attractive, and no longer care about what they were playing with 2 years ago. Hasbro needs to keep the TF brand alive to keep the kids who are currently interested that may not have been a year ago and won't be interested in two years from now.

Adult TF fans are hoarders they don't break anything or throw anything out. Most still have rooms chock full of TF toys released from 10 years ago.

These statements that you make annoy me because in two sentences you think you've captured the essence of the adult collectors. You haven't. You've just made the Star Trek equivalent statement of "All people who think Picard is the best captain are ignorant losers.". Each one of us collects, stores and displays differently than each other and you show NO respect for that.

Also, Picard is a bad-ass, although Sisko is undoubtedly the best Star Trek captain.

Saying stuff like KFC UM is old scale & doesn't fit in with newer scaled toys,Thus isn't worth buyer. Makes no sense coming from a Adult TF fan hoarder. It doesn't have to fit in with scaled toys made from 2012-2014. If you've got a room chock full of toys from 10 years ago,Why can't you just place KFC UM on a shelf next to MP-01,MP-05,MP-22 & Armade super Mode Prime.

Again, you're painting the fandom with a broad stroke of your assumptions. It may surprise you that, while I've been collecting since the days of Armada, I no longer have any of the figures you mention. So yes, to me KFC Ultra Magnus is too big.

:-? I don't get why some like X,Get overly bent out of shape in only wanting one newer updated toy line scale. If a room is chock full of over 100 TF toys on over 20 shelves,Why can't various shelves have different newer & older scales & themes on them?

This argument fallacy is called the straw man. You've built up in your mind what the adult TF collector looks like. Then you baqse all of your arguments and oppinions around that fictional image, thinking that you somehow speak for everyone. Does it come from your experiences, or your habits? Maybe so, maybe not; either way I don't care.

Don't tell me how to collect.

I can totally understand not wanting to buy based off KFC's bad QC record. This at least is a valid reason. Waiting to buy until others have video reviewed the toy totally makes sense. As these toys are not cheaply priced. It's understandable not to wanting to rush spending the big bucks. Because lets face it nobody wants to have a exspensive toy break apart in there hands or overly riddled with QC issues.

A fair point I can agree with.

In closing,Some like X are wrong about Hasbro setting a newer TF toy scale Bible. If TF toy history has taught us anything,This newer scale is bound to change in a few years. No HasTak TF toy scale is set in stone. Scales change whenever HasTak makes newer toys. whenever newer clueless employees join the team. it's a endless cycles of going up & down in scales for HasTak. HasTak doesn't care about giving character toys wrong scales like some fans think they do,2.0 is proof of this. For Hastak it's less about pleasing fans & more about making money. HasTak changes the scale to meet the demands of the ecomony & what they think the buyers can afford in that time frame.

Hasbro/Takara will make what they want to make and meanwhile TF collectors will buy whatever figures they want for whatever reasons they want. It is not your place to judge them or call them wrong because they do things differently.

Mkall,I was trying to explain the reasons why I & probably some others are going to be buying KFC Ultra Magnus & other oversized 3rd party toys like Nova Lord.

To me & some others,KFC UM is not a oversized toy that isn't worth buying as a result. I plan to buy & scale KFC UM on the same shelf next to similar scaled toys like MP-01,MP-05,MP-22 & Armada super mode Optimus.

I don't buy newer 2013-2014 3rd party toys exclusively to be scaled next to 2012-2014 HasTak TF newer scaled toys.

I bought Hexatron & Quakewave Because they were leader sized toys. That I felt would be display nicely next to other Leader sized toys From AEC,Movie verse,TFA,TFP-BH,MP-09,MP-10,MP-08,MP-seekers,MP-13.

I'm sure some won't be buying BTS Nova lord for similar reasons they are not buying KFC UM. Both in height & QC issues of companies they don't like.

Not everyone is buying 3rd party TF toys solely to scale with Classics Generations toys. Some are displaying 3rd party TF toys with other TF toy lines.

The reasons why I am buying KFC UM & BTS Nova lord outweigh the scales issues. To me other things take priority. like having one of my favorite G-1 charcters getting a great new toy. sculpt being beautiful & matching the G-1 designs very closely. having MP level articulation,hign sculpt & colors. Engineering,joints & Transformation being ground breaking superior. Needing to have the toy big because the original toy was.

I'm sure not everyone is buying BTS Nova lord & MP Star Sabre to scale next to Classics-Generations & MP TF toys made from 2012-2014. It may come as a shocker to some but others might be buying Nova lord & MP Starsabre to sit on shelves & scale next to the 1980's original toy versions.

shajaki wrote:

Gauntlet101010 wrote:I'll just get what looks right to me. Thinking about scale too much is troublesome.

thank you for this. "scaling" has been such an annoying topic lately, and ive never given it much thought until recently because of all these threads. the only line i want things scaled properly is MP. and even then i can let things slide. so long as things are moderately accurate, i dont care.

you think you know scaling pain? im a beast machines fan. and i can still live with those toys.

Yep, same here (on all counts, including Beast Machines ).

While I prefer things be pretty close in scale to the cartoon (or MY version of the cartoon that lives in my head ) for lines like MP, Beast Wars, Beast Machines, Prime etc., I can let things slide and if a figure represents a character well enough or is just cool enough, I'll get it. I've bought plenty of figures that had no business in my collection according to the other figures I already had. You know, those oddball 'standalone' figures that don't really fit in anywhere. I'm not building an army here, I'm collecting toys. I buy the toys I like, I skip the ones I do not.

MP is hitting all the right 'real G1' spots for me that Classics never did, and that set of toys currently has a Magnus shaped hole in it that Takara has plans to fill. If theirs is better than KFC's, then that's the one I'll get (price is not a factor, not when I'm willing to spend over $1000 on a single Beast Wars deluxe figure just because of how rare it is). Takara's track record with the current MPs tells me that in all likelihood their UM is going to knock my socks off, something that KFC's currently doesn't do.

And yeah, I'd prefer it if the scale of Magnus in bot mode looked relative to MP-10. And I expect Takara's will.

xyl360 wrote:

shajaki wrote:

Gauntlet101010 wrote:I'll just get what looks right to me. Thinking about scale too much is troublesome.

thank you for this. "scaling" has been such an annoying topic lately, and ive never given it much thought until recently because of all these threads. the only line i want things scaled properly is MP. and even then i can let things slide. so long as things are moderately accurate, i dont care.

you think you know scaling pain? im a beast machines fan. and i can still live with those toys.

Yep, same here (on all counts, including Beast Machines ).

While I prefer things be pretty close in scale to the cartoon (or MY version of the cartoon that lives in my head ) for lines like MP, Beast Wars, Beast Machines, Prime etc., I can let things slide and if a figure represents a character well enough or is just cool enough, I'll get it. I've bought plenty of figures that had no business in my collection according to the other figures I already had. You know, those oddball 'standalone' figures that don't really fit in anywhere. I'm not building an army here, I'm collecting toys. I buy the toys I like, I skip the ones I do not.

MP is hitting all the right 'real G1' spots for me that Classics never did, and that set of toys currently has a Magnus shaped hole in it that Takara has plans to fill. If theirs is better than KFC's, then that's the one I'll get (price is not a factor, not when I'm willing to spend over $1000 on a single Beast Wars deluxe figure just because of how rare it is). Takara's track record with the current MPs tells me that in all likelihood their UM is going to knock my socks off, something that KFC's currently doesn't do.

And yeah, I'd prefer it if the scale of Magnus in bot mode looked relative to MP-10. And I expect Takara's will.

Xyl360,I agree with Almost everything you said & I feel a similar way.

TF Toys I buy,don't need to fit in with others in either theme,Aesthetics or scale. I'm not a completist,I buy what I like because I really like the toy.

Scaling is nice but if it doesn't scale up with other TF toys,I might have other higher priority reasons for buying that newer HasTak or 3rd party TF toy.

I'm not hard core enough,don't care enough & don't want the headaches of being a completist of anything. I'd rather just buy what I really like. I just don't want to buy stuff I don't like or mildy like just to complete a theme of TF toys. I need to really like the toy all the way in order to buy it.

I have a lot of stand alone figures where I just bought one or Two figures from each TF toy line. To me it doesn't matter if they scale good next to anything. doesn't matter if they fit in any themes or Aesthetics.

Xly360,I don't see how it's possible for the MP-10 Mold to just gain one inch or a head taller. When all that MP-22 car carrier armor bits is applied all over the super robot mode. The armor boots are bound to add 1 to 2 inches at minimal. The bigger blue head with the big forehead & horns are bound to add 0.5 to 1 inches more at minimal. The trailer arms that covers up the white robot chest is bound to add 1 inch at minimal in height.

I'm calulating this MP-22 to be at least 12 to 13 inches minimal in Super Robot mode. Since the MP-10 Robot mode is already a big 9 to 9.5 inches tall robot mode.

Tsutsukakushi wrote:STUFF KFC UM STUFF

Why are you making this argument yet you want to KFC to change the size of their chicken?

Mkall, you basically summarize my feelings here. Thanks for taking the time.

mooncake623 wrote:

Tsutsukakushi wrote:STUFF KFC UM STUFF

Why are you making this argument yet you want to KFC to change the size of their chicken?

I decided a few hours ago,after seeing newer pics. To throw the scales issues out the window. I could care less if this scales well or not next to as many HasTak TF toys as possible.

This toy has superior MP level high sculpt,articulation & engineering. Scale became less of a issue to me with all these higher priority positives That I care much more about.

Tsutsukakushi wrote:Mkall,I was trying to explain the reasons why I & probably some others are going to be buying KFC Ultra Magnus & other oversized 3rd party toys like Nova Lord.

To me & some others,KFC UM is not a oversized toy that isn't worth buying as a result. I plan to buy & scale KFC UM on the same shelf next to similar scaled toys like MP-01,MP-05,MP-22 & Armada super mode Optimus.

I don't buy newer 2013-2014 3rd party toys exclusively to be scaled next to 2012-2014 HasTak TF newer scaled toys.

I bought Hexatron & Quakewave Because they were leader sized toys. That I felt would be display nicely next to other Leader sized toys From AEC,Movie verse,TFA,TFP-BH,MP-09,MP-10,MP-08,MP-seekers,MP-13.

I'm sure some won't be buying BTS Nova lord for similar reasons they are not buying KFC UM. Both in height & QC issues of companies they don't like.

Not everyone is buying 3rd party TF toys solely to scale with Classics Generations toys. Some are displaying 3rd party TF toys with other TF toy lines.

The reasons why I am buying KFC UM & BTS Nova lord outweigh the scales issues. To me other things take priority. like having one of my favorite G-1 charcters getting a great new toy. sculpt being beautiful & matching the G-1 designs very closely. having MP level articulation,hign sculpt & colors. Engineering,joints & Transformation being ground breaking superior. Needing to have the toy big because the original toy was.

I'm sure not everyone is buying BTS Nova lord & MP Star Sabre to scale next to Classics-Generations & MP TF toys made from 2012-2014. It may come as a shocker to some but others might be buying Nova lord & MP Starsabre to sit on shelves & scale next to the 1980's original toy versions.

Then I believe I called you out on a faulty interpretation of your views in a different thread. For that I apologise. However please refrain from making generic statements of adult collectors. You only truly know yourself, so speak in that frame of reference.

I too will be getting BTS Overlord, but I'll be placing him with my Classics because IMO, he's always been a huge figure.

megatronus wrote:Mkall, you basically summarize my feelings here. Thanks for taking the time.

Hooray! Another Sisko fan!

Mkall wrote:Hooray! Another Sisko fan!

I've got a major man crush on Sisko. Major balls on that man and he pulled off bald a hell of a lot better.

Also, dat goatee.

Midnight_Fox wrote:

Mkall wrote:Hooray! Another Sisko fan!

I've got a major man crush on Sisko. Major balls on that man and he pulled off bald a hell of a lot better.

Also, dat goatee.

Tsutsukakushi wrote:Xly360,I don't see how it's possible for the MP-10 Mold to just gain one inch or a head taller. When all that MP-22 car carrier armor bits is applied all over the super robot mode. The armor boots are bound to add 1 to 2 inches at minimal. The bigger blue head with the big forehead & horns are bound to add 0.5 to 1 inches more at minimal. The trailer arms that covers up the white robot chest is bound to add 1 inch at minimal in height.

I'm calulating this MP-22 to be at least 12 to 13 inches minimal in Super Robot mode. Since the MP-10 Robot mode is already a big 9 to 9.5 inches tall robot mode.

I doubt it. Magnus' 'boots' could just clip on around the lower legs and feet of the MP-10 mold. They don't have to necessarily add any height at all. You keep making all these claims about MP-22 when no one has seen a prototype yet, including you. You can speculate all you want, but all these statements about what it's height 'must' be are really getting old. You don't work for Takara, you're not a toy engineer, and you haven't seen a prototype so please just wait and see. I expect they will surprise you.

And by the way, the blue chest bit on KFC's version looks wrong. The shape of it has bugged me since their first teaser pics and they never did fix it. Also, the waist is too thin.

There, more reasons for me not to buy other than just scale.

You like the figure, you're going to buy the figure. That's fine. But unless you work for KFC, please quit trying to justify and rationalize why everyone else should be buying it.

I have MP-01 posed in a seated position with a heavily melted and mutilated head facing Transmetal Megatron (see my sig for the reference to what I was recreating when I did that). I don't need an MP Magnus to scale with that. Especially since Ultra Magnus was not aboard the Ark.

xyl360 wrote:...when I'm willing to spend over $1000 on a single Beast Wars deluxe figure just because of how rare it is.

what figure is that?

xyl360 wrote:I have MP-01 posed in a seated position with a heavily melted and mutilated head facing Transmetal Megatron.

i would LOVE to see a pic of that.

shajaki wrote:

xyl360 wrote:...when I'm willing to spend over $1000 on a single Beast Wars deluxe figure just because of how rare it is.

what figure is that?

2 of them actually. The first was the infamous green Ramulus:


The second was the blue Optimus Minor:


Supposedly only 4 of the former are known to exist. I suspect similarly low numbers on the unreleased blue Optimus Minor.

xyl360 wrote:

shajaki wrote:

xyl360 wrote:...when I'm willing to spend over $1000 on a single Beast Wars deluxe figure just because of how rare it is.

what figure is that?

2 of them actually. The first was the infamous green Ramulus.
The second was the blue Optimus Minor.
Supposedly only 4 of the former are known to exist. I suspect similarly low numbers on the unreleased blue Optimus Minor.

HO
LEE

very impressive. i thought i was quite the beast wars buff... but ive never even heard of those. nice!