The Energon Pub

i was watching this the other day on youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nObpz3Pl4c

that whole scene towards the end of the fight where superman literally dies in a blaze of glory

maybe its just me but does anyone else here think that would be a all to fitting way for a hero like prime to die whilemaking the ultimate sacrifice?

way i figure it in a fight to the death even a bot or con like optimus or megatron could die from a lethal combination of eletromagnetism/ solar/gamma irradiation just look at what it did to megatron at the begining of transformers animated as a example on the matter.

Personally, I think killing Prime would be a big mistake. It's been done before and there is no sense in repeating something that people are already expecting. They'll never be able to have Prime's death be as shocking as in the animated movie. I'd rather the writers work on a more crative way of showing the cost of war than just killing more characters. More death doesn't make the war anymore significant in an imaginary world. I have argued in the past that Jazz's death in the previous movie was basically pointless in the absence of any character development. To convey the true impact of war there needs to be an emotional conotation that the viewers can latch on to. It's kind of like when you watch the news and hear of someone's death. It may be a bummer, but it is difficult to get emotional over someone you don't know. Same goes for movies. Blockbusters like Transformers need a little more substance than big explosions and transforming robots. Although, those things are pretty cool.

Optimist Prime wrote:Personally, I think killing Prime would be a big mistake. It's been done before and there is no sense in repeating something that people are already expecting.

Eh, IMO this really doesn't hold all that much weight. Only the die-hard fan base would have any real knowledge or memory of Prime's many deaths in the previous series; anyone who went into the movie who wasn't already a fan wouldn't have known what to expect outside of giant robots smacking the crap outta each other, frankly.

They'll never be able to have Prime's death be as shocking as in the animated movie.

Again, this is something only the hardcore fans would probably click on to, and that's tenuous at best considering that every promo ad I remember seeing for the animated movie back in 1986 had the announcer booming "WILL OPTIMUS PRIME DIE???" as it showed the footage of Megatron pumping him full of hot plasma, and on top of that, at the same time, Hasbro was running commercials for the toy of a new Autobot leader named RODIMUS PRIME.

I'd rather the writers work on a more crative way of showing the cost of war than just killing more characters. More death doesn't make the war anymore significant in an imaginary world.

There's no more effective way to underscore the toll that war takes than death, creativity or no. That's what war does. That's kind of the point of the whole thing; to kill as many people as it takes for your enemy to get the point, and if they don't take the hint, pfft, kill them too. Nobody would have been rooting for the Death Star to get blown to atoms if it hadn't destroyed Alderaan, and Khan's wrath wouldn't have amounted to squat as a Star Trek film if Spock hadn't bit the bullet in the process.

I have argued in the past that Jazz's death in the previous movie was basically pointless in the absence of any character development. To convey the true impact of war there needs to be an emotional conotation that the viewers can latch on to. It's kind of like when you watch the news and hear of someone's death. It may be a bummer, but it is difficult to get emotional over someone you don't know. Same goes for movies. Blockbusters like Transformers need a little more substance than big explosions and transforming robots. Although, those things are pretty cool.

IMO that's precisely why they SHOULD kill Prime. Or Bumblebee. But preferably Prime, because it would make the situation more dire for our heroes than Bumblebee's death would. You want them to do something unexpected? Here's an idea: I'd like to see them kill Prime and have him actually STAY DEAD for once. Maybe have him appear to Bumblebee or Sam in Allspark-induced visions or something, but nothing more corporeal than that. We're all grown up now; it's not 1986 anymore. And I'd wager today's kids, with their R-rated video games and having seen Anakin chop Mace's arms off, are a lot more accustomed to the notion of beloved characters buying the farm than they were twenty years ago. Just 'cuz something's been done already, doesn't mean you can't be creative with THAT.

Nice post, Jaw Crusher. I agree that Prime is the only Autobot who isn't completely disposable so... disposing of him would have the greatest impact, if not the only impact.

Plus Bay can do Transformers right and bring in Ultra Magnus to be the Autobot leader just like how G2 was supposed to be...

All good points. I suppose I'll never be able to get beyond my G1 influences, thus being in the small percentage that will never be happy with anything Bay does. However, I feel that my previous post still illustrates the need to involve more Transformer characters in the actual plot. Otherwise, the only options for killing a character that matters are Optimus Prime or the human boy.

Yes, killing Sam Witwicky would have an impact.
Wild cries of jubilation from much of the TF community, I'd wager.

That said, I don't mind the human element as much as some people do.
I do hope there will be more TF screen time in ROTF, though.

Should they kill Prime off?
On that I am uncertain.
On one hand, it would be a somewhat unexpected move, I think.
On the other hand, would it really be a good thing?
What would the Bayverse be like without Optimus Prime?
Just picture that for a moment: Bumblebee, Ratchet, Ironhide... without Prime.
Then there would be *nothing but* the human element. Lol...

Wha! Oh god no! Then it wouldn't be Transformers no matter how you twist it. It would be...giant robots that turn into cars. Optimus has been established as leader he is leader. This is not a fan girl rant this is what happens when they do a change leads in series or film series suddenly. They fail horrably and very few are successful after the change.

Sky Glory of Iacon wrote:Wha! Oh god no! Then it wouldn't be Transformers no matter how you twist it. It would be...giant robots that turn into cars. Optimus has been established as leader he is leader. This is not a fan girl rant this is what happens when they do a change leads in series or film series suddenly. They fail horrably and very few are successful after the change.

IMO it's highly arguable how much of a "lead" Optimus could be considered in Bay's continuity. That's like saying that no one except James T. Kirk should ever be captain of the Enterprise. The only reason Optimus is at the forefront as Autobots go is because he and Bumblebee are Hasbro's poster boys for the entire brand.

And IMO Marvel's original G1 comic did just fine without Optimus after they killed him off - heck, it went three years when the cartoon could barely make it one more season - in fact, once they brought Optimus back, THAT's when I really feel the book started losing creative steam - slowly at first (barring its opening setup, the Underbase Saga wasn't too bad, IMO - I liked seeing Starscream finally become nigh-omnipotent and go to town wiping out all the other TFs before overloading himself), but nonetheless it started devolving toward an excuse to shove in the newest figures and gimmicks of the toy line with every issue.

Even worse, after Optimus came back the plotlines started to mirror the sillier stuff of the G1 cartoon (and I mean pre-animated movie, when Warpath was fighting medieval jousts and Powerglide and Seaspray were courtin' chicks and Red Alert was beaming up at his strapping savior Inferno and the Autobots had to surf to a Decepticon camp) - in Optimus' absence, Bumblebee/Goldbug had fallen out with the other Autobots, Grimlock took command and basically started ticking everybody off, Ratchet became guilt-ridden over his failure to revive Optimus, Megatron was gnawing himself over the fact that he never really BEAT Optimus, and Shockwave was getting set to take over once Megs finally went crackers - in other words, the other TFs were given better character dilemmas to deal with when Optimus was dead than they had when he was alive (although even from the early issues of the book, Ratchet and Megatron had a leg up over everyone else in that department). By contrast, after Optimus comes back, Sky Lynx is found in a space circus, the Autobot Micromasters become pro-wrestlers, Skullgrin becomes a movie star, and at one point the Decepticons take a page from Cobra's book of evil plans and OPEN AN ISLAND RESORT GETAWAY FOR HUMANS, HOSTING IT THEMSELVES, as a cover for their search for the Underbase (this the aforementioned "opening setup" to the saga I was talking about earlier, truly the book's jump-the-shark moment [that issue even has Overbite's shadow on the cover, propitiously enough]). By this direction, I think it was pretty appropriate that the issue where they resurrect Optimus AGAIN was the last issue.

Jaw Crusher wrote:

Sky Glory of Iacon wrote:Wha! Oh god no! Then it wouldn't be Transformers no matter how you twist it. It would be...giant robots that turn into cars. Optimus has been established as leader he is leader. This is not a fan girl rant this is what happens when they do a change leads in series or film series suddenly. They fail horrably and very few are successful after the change.

IMO it's highly arguable how much of a "lead" Optimus could be considered in Bay's continuity. That's like saying that no one except James T. Kirk should ever be captain of the Enterprise. The only reason Optimus is at the forefront as Autobots go is because he and Bumblebee are Hasbro's poster boys for the entire brand.

Ummm...no not that at all. You just took Prime out of context. Captain Kirk was a charector played by an actor. When the ST came back it was a super long time since anything new was made of ST When TNG came into public view.

Prime is sort of stuck in that role in the Bayformers movie for now and to change it this soon would devasate the franchise.

And IMO Marvel's original G1 comic did just fine without Optimus after they killed him off - heck,

Okay first off this is a movie franchise not a comic book. Two entertainment worlds here fella one is motion images the other is stationary images. The comics were a differnt storyline and a differnt art form than a motion picture/televison show.

The comics were ment for another audience and are written differntly than a televison show. The Marvel Comics were not handled as well as the IDW comics are now. Some weren't well written and the art varied form artist to artist and even the coloring was out of wack alot.

Wha! Oh god no! Then it wouldn't be Transformers no matter how you twist it. It would be...giant robots that turn into cars. Optimus has been established as leader he is leader. This is not a fan girl rant this is what happens when they do a change leads in series or film series suddenly. They fail horrably and very few are successful after the change.

IMO it's highly arguable how much of a "lead" Optimus could be considered in Bay's continuity. That's like saying that no one except James T. Kirk should ever be captain of the Enterprise. The only reason Optimus is at the forefront as Autobots go is because he and Bumblebee are Hasbro's poster boys for the entire brand.

Ummm...that is not at all what I said
Prime is sort of stuck in that role in the Bayformers movie franchise for now and to change it this soon would devasate the franchise.

And IMO Marvel's original G1 comic did just fine without Optimus after they killed him off - heck,

Okay first off this is a movie franchise not a comic book. Two entertainment worlds here fella one is motion images the other is stationary images. The comics were a differnt storyline and a differnt art form than a motion picture/televison show.

The comics were ment for another audience and are written differntly than a televison show. The Marvel Comics were not handled as well as the IDW comics are now. Some weren't well written and the art varied form artist to artist and even the coloring was out of wack alot.

All I can say is he better not.

We may not have to assume. I'm not sure if you can see this thread without registering, but a member claims to be an extra navy seal on the set (he also has a ton of pictures from the set) and... and I'll just let you read his post. Major spoiler right off the bat, just so you know.

http://www.ls2.com/forums/showthread.ph ... did=710510

Originally posted by -=boM=-
:lol:
No.
I had to chase a bunch of villagers out of the area because the Decepticons were attacking, then had to protect Optimus Prime's corpse. There were a shitload of us out there.
The food and catering was awesome. A lot of downtime. Just like a deployment.
I did an interview for the DVD. We will see if that is on it too. The asked me a bunch of questions about the military. The autobots are behind me on top of a sand dune. I did a GM plug. They liked that.
Micheal Bay loves the military. I got to speak with him very briefly. He gets so angry on set at the actors but doesn't dare yell or demean the military. It was a trip. He said something to me like do you want a job as a DA (Directors Assistant), I said hell yeah. He was getting pissed at his DA. His DA was like trust me you dont want this job.
I have two closeup shots if they do decide to put them in the movie. One was walking with the camera on the tracks going along with me but at a slower pace. The camera was right on the side of my face following me but at a slower rate. There were two others behind me. The other close up was while I was defending from a corner of a building on one knee. The boom camera went from the ground to over head of us all. I was up front in the scene. The camera came up to my face then began to ascend over the area. It was pretty cool.
Another scene was Optimus getting dropped off by a chinook. I had to run up to the area then stop as Optimus was getting dropped.
Another was with Josh and Tyrese when they argue with The President on the flightline. I am in the background.
As much time as I spent filming (9-10 hours a day for 4 days) I hope I am seen at least once. Hell I'll be happy to be on teh DVD.

http://www.ls2.com/forums/showthread.ph ... st11135382

Don't know if he stays dead, if it is in the begining or the end of the movie. They were secretive. They never refered to him as being dead. They always said his body. So there no spoiler.

Body doesn't have to mean dead. Could easily just be their direction to the military extras to help imagine the giant imaginary form of Optimus Prime on the set.

A surprising lack of credit to the importance of Optimus Prime.

Prime defines Transformers. Prime IS Transformers.

He is what children think of when they think of Transformers. He is the fond memory that 20 somethings (now 30 somethings) have in regards to the franchise. He's the core of every show. When he's been gone in the comics, the point of that story-arc was waiting for him to come back. From the old G1 cartoon, he's the father figure in the cast of stereotypes. He's the most sold and marketed Transformer toy.

Killing him in the 85' Movie was the worst mistake Hasbro made of that time period. It was so bad they had to rush production of the show and toy line to fix it.

Yes Virginia there are heroes and foremost among them is Optimus Prime. No amount of bad-writing, delivered for shock-value, in order to satiate the blood thristy and gritty commentators will dimish the fact that without Prime, Transformers is just another mech story.

Rest assured that if Prime 'dies' in the movie, it will only be for dramatic suspense for his return at the film's conslusion.

Well Prime does get his butt whooped, maybe they 'freeze' him so they can get him to a safe place so Ratchet can repair him more easily. So the "corpse" can just sort of look like that. They take a heavily damaged Prime to a secure base (course what base is truly secure in the TF-Verse). After all, Prime is a frickin big bot. Even as a semi, he's still kinda big to transport and if he's damaged, easier to freeze him or just chinook him out.

Gee...for once I'm of two minds on the issues.

In the first place, I am a diehard Decepticon fan. I do not own an Optimus Prime figure, I do not like the character, I would probably woot for joy if they killed him off....seriously, that'd be a big happy moment for me.

On the other hand, I don't see them doing it. Not because its something they've done before (Most, if not all of whats occured in the movie is at least referential to the G1 series, and killing Prime is certainly a component of that) but because, as others have said, Prime IS the brand. They're not going to kill him off, and destroy Hasbro's nest egg...I might could see it happening at the end of one movie...but he stands about as much chance of remaining dead as Megatron does.

Edit: I will say the idea that they can't do as dramatic a death with Optimus in the movie as in the cartoon is...absurd. Just because Jazz got punked doesn't mean Optimus can't have a long, drawn out death scene, lying shattered on the ground, as the other Autobots look on in wonder. Theres no reason at all that it can't have the same emotional impact as...Optimus Prime turning gray...

My useless opinion: Starscream's gonna die. Let's face it, he ALWAYS dies. In just about every continuity I can think of, Starscream gets it. It always makes me cry (because I loff heeem!) I desperately hope that Bay goes against the trend with this, but I strongly suspect I'm gonna need the extra strength Puffs Plus.

HK

Optimist Prime wrote:I have argued in the past that Jazz's death in the previous movie was basically pointless in the absence of any character development.

Exactly. I couldn't even identify which TF was which in the movie because of the constant action blur and lack of character definition, so it was truly a moment wasted on me. I felt nothing. OP's death in the animated movie was tragic, emotional and had real impact because he was a well-developed character in the tv series. Same goes for some of the other casualties as well (Prowl, et al). Bay's formers need more personality and personal stories. Then he can go and kill them off for an emotional payoff if he likes.

I think he may actually die but not toward the ending of the movie.

Optimus looked like he was getting his ass handed to him bye the fallen in the trailer.

Also the scene with Devestator or whoever that is didnt look like that was going to well either.


That will make for a great conclusion to this movie and the 2nd one can pick up were it leaves off from.

Jetfire, Hot Rod, or Ultramagnus can then be brought in to replace Optimus until he returns.

*Gets depressed* Please, if I have to live through another death scene of Optimus then I'll wait till I see it on the big screen. But if he goes out it needs to be in a massive epic battle against Megatron. Even better yet, lets see Prime kill Megatron for a change instead of coming close or some human doing it.