The Energon Pub

griftimus prime wrote:with this guy as a producer do not expect a good movie but i have been wanting another great beast line of toys for a while now.

They don't get much better than this.

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:

griftimus prime wrote:with this guy as a producer do not expect a good movie but i have been wanting another great beast line of toys for a while now.

They don't get much better than this.

new designs. new characters.

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:Name one Live Action design that is superior to it's contemporaries. That is, by agreed consensus.

Weighted question. You'll never get an agreed consensus on anything. You could change that phrase into "Name one Generation One design that is superior to it's contemporaries. That is, by agreed consensus" and still not come up with anything.

As for the subject of Beast Wars - I think it'd be a harder one to pull off well. I'd loathe to have a 20 foot metal Gorilla on screen and equally knowing they'd want the "human" element in there, too - I don't want a life-size robot Gorilla running around with humans, either.

griftimus prime wrote:new designs. new characters.

That's not Beast Wars you're after then. The Beast Era has no new characters or Designs, as it ended with Beast Machines finale. Given they did add two new Dinobots, renewed exposure in the rest of the G1 Beasts might be what you're after. They might even make the Firecons into something that looks decent . Let alone upscale the Horrorcons. MP Apeface could be amazing

Amelie wrote:As for the subject of Beast Wars - I think it'd be a harder one to pull off well. I'd loathe to have a 20 foot metal Gorilla on screen and equally knowing they'd want the "human" element in there, too - I don't want a life-size robot Gorilla running around with humans, either.

That is my biggest concern. Beast Wars was a pioneer of the Transformers series wherein no humans existed, nor were needed (the Neanderthals don't count). The movies to date are fixated on humans being the "heart" of the Live Action films. That doesn't mesh with anything Beast Wars related I would want to see.

A lot of people say beast wars as something that needs to be explored as in, realistic animal alts to robots in that style. Also G1 ended with Beast Machines yet we still keeping going over 1984 For all its faults, the Bay led movies did give us something new, so while it was divisive, it should still be applauded for the attempt.

ZeroWolf wrote:A lot of people say beast wars is something that needs to be explored as in, realistic animal alts to robots in that style.

How and on what grounds, Fan Service?? That's not a good enough reason to do anything worthwhile. To the credit of the creative team behind Beast Wars, they gave a legitimate reasoning to Beast Modes being what they were and the setting for the series. That caveat would have to be replicated otherwise Beast Modes are superficial and pointless.

They even left The inbetween years (Bots & Cons into Maxi's and Preds) ambiguous so as to not tie themselves into convoluted and unnecessary back story. I know Fan Fiction on this era does exist, but the beauty of Beast Wars was in its simplicity. There was no ongoing comic to Beast Wars, or anything else canon beside the show. So if it wasn't in the show, it doesn't really matter.

ZeroWolf wrote: Also G1 ended with Beast Machines yet we still keeping going over 1984 For all its faults, the Bay led movies did give us something new, so while it was divisive, it should still be applauded for the attempt.

Lets be blunt, G1 was so simple and bare bones it was easy to adapt. To mold into whatever the creative force behind it wanted it to be. Other than adhering to a checklist of visual and audio (VA) cues, G1 is literally a free for all. Sunbow to IDWverse is proof of this.

Beast Wars was different because it had depth and substance, absent from G1. Distinct characterisations not merely dependant on catchphrases and archetypes. Beast Wars was defined and set in stone, G1 was a jelly mold.

Hey I was just saying what some people meant by new characters and designs, also at its most simplistic level all you need to do is have Maximals vs Predacons (remember the toys dictated what the fiction had to explain) and a reason to why animal alts which would be the same as its the very same reason Grimlock and the Dinobots took their forms in Spotlight Shockwave in IDW. This wouldn't affect the old beast wars just like every other version of tf doesn't impact on the sunbow toon. Don't like it? You don't have to watch it. Beast Wars has already got two reimaginings under its belt with Shattered Glass and Beast Wars Uprising (oh and the IDW comics, as they are seperate to the Japanese Beast War toons)

(One loss of internet later)

I wasn't having a go, just stating a lot more went into making Beast Wars it's own distinct thing. Prior G1 was always broad strokes, the "Evil" Decepticons vs. the "Heroic" Autobots.
Artistically, G1 had a lot more to work with, to personalise creatively.

That said, the "new thing won't affect the old thing" is the most pedantic argument. It can be used as justification to plagiarise virtually everything ever made, highlighting how creatively bankrupt people have become. If everything save the name is different, it is not an original thing, it is merely a cash grab nothing more. For an example, I point you to Reboot: The Guardians Code.

I think saying "the new thing won't affect the old" is perfectly valid, after all look at Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, that's on its (counts fingers) ninth incarnation now? And its still the same core cast. Something new can't take away the old, the old thing still exists, plus there is one thing that while it's very blunt, is sadly true. Beast Wars is whatever Hasbro says it is, if they want to add a new chapter to tf lore where robots with realistic beast alts clobber each other, and call that Beast Wars: Second Impact that's their right, as they own it. It's not perfect but it is what it is,and at consumer level you can choose to consume or not.

Plus let's face facts anyway...They'll just keep pumping out G1 movies now that Bumblebee movie is profitable

ZeroWolf wrote:This wouldn't affect the old beast wars just like every other version of tf doesn't impact on the sunbow toon.

It is true, but the funny thing is, the characters in beast wars did try to affect the G1 toon, season 2 ended so helplessly, I thought they ended the series (ending like ALF with no new season (even though there was an ALF tv movie later)), and it was Hasbro saying transformers was over. It felt like our childhood was being attacked (by the fictional events, but it also made me ponder our actual real life, what if the G1 show never existed and we never had the toys) and there would be no new toys.
I bought my first beast wars toy that same day.

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:For an example, I point you to Reboot: The Guardians Code.

Oddly, a show called Zixx https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zixx kind of ripped off ReBoot, and it looks like the new ReBoot is closer to a reboot/ripoff of Zixx (gotta add those human characters it seems).

ZeroWolf wrote:I think saying "the new thing won't affect the old" is perfectly valid, after all look at Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, that's on its (counts fingers) ninth incarnation now? And its still the same core cast. Something new can't take away the old, the old thing still exists, plus there is one thing that while it's very blunt, is sadly true. Beast Wars is whatever Hasbro says it is, if they want to add a new chapter to tf lore where robots with realistic beast alts clobber each other, and call that Beast Wars: Second Impact that's their right, as they own it. It's not perfect but it is what it is,and at consumer level you can choose to consume or not.

The caveat is that G1 movies can keep being remade forever because, by pop culture recognition alone, that is The Transformers. Beast Wars is a sub-series, a spin-off. It is Batman Beyond, to Batman: TAS. The Batman can be remade time and again, but context is needed for another Batman Beyond/another Beast Wars to Transformers.

Sometimes however, as in the case with He-Man, the New Thing can kill the old thing stone dead. That does happen in all media.

Hasbro can say what they like, if people don't buy into it, they make it go away. Aligned Continuity, hello? DC's DCYou, Marvel's Heroes Reborn, Venus, the Female turtle of TMNT etc etc

S.o.L. wrote:

ZeroWolf wrote:This wouldn't affect the old beast wars just like every other version of tf doesn't impact on the sunbow toon.

It is true, but the funny thing is, the characters in beast wars did try to affect the G1 toon, season 2 ended so helplessly, I thought they ended the series (ending like ALF with no new season (even though there was an ALF tv movie later)), and it was Hasbro saying transformers was over. It felt like our childhood was being attacked (by the fictional events, but it also made me ponder our actual real life, what if the G1 show never existed and we never had the toys) and there would be no new toys.
I bought my first beast wars toy that same day.

That is probably the strangest take home message I've ever read regarding The Agenda. I thought we were being taken somewhere new, bold and exciting. Alas that didn't happen... At least we got Depthcharge

Aligned continuity did quite well as it only ended with Rid 2015, and so you agree then that if fans consume a new beast wars movie then things will go well this debate probably looks imposing for anyone else looking in so I think we may have exhausted it... At least till we actually get more concrete details on if a beast wars movie is in production, as we could just be forever talking about a hypothetical. You don't want it but I do, so I think that's it for now.

S.o.L@ out of curiosity, what bw toy was it you got?

ZeroWolf wrote: and so you agree then that if fans consume a new beast wars movie then things will go well

Well barring a couple of episodes and two characters, I adore Beast Wars more than any other Transformers series. To that end I hope nothing comes of this quote. Unless of course, they actually fulfil the promise of The Agenda's finale and give us that Dark timeline as a CG movie. Everyone barring Campbell Lane is still alive and viable for returning VO duties to make that happen too.

ZeroWolf wrote:S.o.L@ out of curiosity, what bw toy was it you got?

Ha, it was Transquito! Could have had Scorponok though
I liked the look of the giant insect more (except for the exposed hands).
Never would have guessed Scorponok could go up in value so much later, never got him.

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:Beast Wars is a sub-series, a spin-off. It is Batman Beyond, to Batman: TAS. The Batman can be remade time and again, but context is needed for another Batman Beyond/another Beast Wars to Transformers.

That does make some sense, a new version of a spinoff would likely be re-made entirely. If we must have humans, may I suggest someone like Turok instead of this:
.

S.o.L. wrote:blah blah blah

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:That is probably the strangest take home message I've ever read regarding The Agenda. I thought we were being taken somewhere new, bold and exciting. Alas that didn't happen... At least we got Depthcharge

The internet existed, I should have just looked up if they were making season 3. I did look up some later that year after it started and saw a TM2 dinobot wallpaper vs. Depth Charge, TM2 dinobot wasn't on the show yet, so couldn't tell what the thing was, legs were attacking so looked like it was standing on a tail only, like some kind of carnivorous bone-seahorse, but it was awesome anyway.

I always thought Dinobot 2 as a concept was wrong anyway. They should have used the toyline as inspiration, Made him Grimlock (an inversion on the existing toy palette swap of Dinobot) and have him voiced by Gregg Berger. Leave Dinobot to the greatest episode of Transformers ever made and stop copping out on important character deaths just because of petulant fanboy whining. But I digress...

I don't know I like the idea of Megs being evil enough to clone and twist Dinobots spark to his will, I liked the idea. Plus the idea of Dinobot 2 being like Frankenstein's Monster just adds to it

ZeroWolf wrote:I don't know I like the idea of Megs being evil enough to clone and twist Dinobots spark to his will, I liked the idea. Plus the idea of Dinobot 2 being like Frankenstein's Monster just adds to it

They just didn't do enough with him. Although a lot of Season 3 had that problem, TM2 Blackarachnia anyone? But using Grimlock would have been potentially more evil, implying he is messing even more with the timestream to win. Dinobot had a defining death, he should have been left there.

That's true but it couldn't have been Grimlock anyway if they were going by the G1 toon...Grimlock would be built in the future. This is why they should have said what elements where in the past leading yo to Beast Wars mind

ZeroWolf wrote:That's true but it couldn't have been Grimlock anyway if they were going by the G1 toon...Grimlock would be built in the future. This is why they should have said what elements where in the past leading yo to Beast Wars mind

Not necessarily

Wouldn't that mean that megs had turned the future Grimlock into a pred?

ZeroWolf wrote:Wouldn't that mean that megs had turned the future Grimlock into a pred?

As I said, that would have been more evil than cloning Dinobot For The Second Time. The change of heart finale would have still been equally as valid for Grimlock and would have made more sense given the lost 'Dark Glass' episode for Dinobot II.

Would they really do a Beast Wars movie? It would mean no humans and actually fleshing out the Cybertronian characters.

The 'no humans' part is the bit I am dubious about. The people behind the Live Action Movies tend to fixate on the humans. Beast Wars Traditionally doesn't/shouldn't have them. Time will tell

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:The 'no humans' part is the bit I am dubious about. The people behind the Live Action Movies tend to fixate on the humans. Beast Wars Traditionally doesn't/shouldn't have them. Time will tell

Yup it's a valid concern and a big reason I don't think a movie for Beast Wars ever gets off the ground.

Anyone who had hopes up for a "Live Action" Beast Wars film may want to tone down some expectations. With the Bumblebee movie opening in Japan, Lorenzo Di Bonaventura was back for some more interviews. While the latest interview is in Japanese, and certain aspects may be lost in translation, there are some key points that we can get from it.

Mainly, that they way Paramount is set to do a Beast Wars film would not be financially viable. The estimates for a full running time Beast Wars live action film would be $450 Million USD. And Lorenzo was quick to point out that investors would not pay that. This does not mean that there couldn't be a Beast Wars themed segment or elements in another film. The fact that Paramount is also unsure about the interest in a Beast Wars themed movie from the general public is also an issue.

You can read the full interview from The River here and translate it for yourself and let us know what you derive from it.