Seibertron.com Energon Pub Forums

Nemesis Maximo wrote:The warping effect was poorly executed imo. It just looks like his paint has been torn away to me.

Also, why wasn't this revealed with the robot mode? It never hit me until now.

Because most of it would be on his back, out of sight. The only way we could have know was the purple coloring on his leg-mounted wings.

I will say this... I remember when trolling through Kay-B Toy store and seeing Machine Wars YEARS after they were released STILL on the shelf. Even back then before I really became a true collector I thought "What a bunch of crap!"

I recently went and looked at the galleries on here to make sure my memory wasn't failing since Botcon decided to pay Machine Wars homage...Nope, STILL crap. SOOooooo, I find it facinating they are trying to get us to buy something that little to none of us have affection for. I am all for reimaging a character, but the bastardizations Machine Wars created of our beloved characters even way back then were laughable. The ONLY redeming figures I recall are...

- Optimus: The mold overall is pretty cool, but that face...ugh, NOT OP.
- Soundwave: Cool Overall, but they could've colored him more like G1
- Sandstorm: Personally, I don't ever remember seeing this mold, but looking at it now, I am impressed...I would be interested in seeing Botcon do that one.
- Starscream: Overall cool mold, but personally it irks me that he got the badass mold and Megs got that crap dollar store mold.

So after that little tirade, count me in on the "haters" of this years exclusives...Not that I am going to waste money buying them anyways...Honestly, they could've found something better for Botcon and did these MW homages as a Generations exclusive to TRU or Amazon. Just my two cents for what its worth.

I wonder if the Machine Wars theme is also in response to the Beast Wars direction that Prime is taking...I wonder.

5 years in a row of disappointing BotCon sets. I'm seeing a pattern here which is unfortunate because I feel like a lot of thought and love went into the 2005, 2006, 2007 and 2008 sets (even though it appears the 2005 set has become less popular over the years as fans have found other replacements for Ironhide and Ratchet and even though I personally dislike the whole Shattered Glass idea it was still a fun idea for ONE year prior to it being overused).

I personally liked the "G2 Redux" set but think they missed an opportunity. If nothing else, it would've been a much better "G1.5" set, because that's what most of it was sans Breakdown and Streetstar. It wasn't much of a G2 set with the heavy hitters being G1 Europe characters. You needed black Sideswipe, blue or teal Grimlock and a few others to sell it properly as a G2 set.

The sell-out of a set does not mean that it is popular, especially when you are dealing with limited runs of 1,500+ for some figure sets or sets that are basically required to be purchased in order to enjoy the entirety of the convention because of what is available for Primus packages versus the other packages.

Bumblevivisector wrote:RRGH! This is bugging the heck outta' me: Does anyone else keep seeing the pic and thinking it's supposed to be Slingshot?

I mean, I know what MW Skywarp looks like, but with that tapered tail in those colors, the jet mode just keeps screaming Slingshot, like the theme is G2 Redux continued and the purple bits are actually side-effects of the nano-mechs or SG Scraplets that cured his gold-plastic syndrome. Maybe it's partly the mistake that briefly identified him as Dirge and made me think Machine Wars was intentionally blurring into Beast Wars II because they used the same flip-changer jet molds, but it just keeps looking like some Slingshot-Space Case hybrid.

Maybe I'd feel different if I had either MW Skywarp or this Bayniverse mold, but so far this just has me hoping they're saving their best reveals for last.

Yep, for a split second i thought it was Slingshot, then i remembered who it was

My experience was actually the opposite. But to tell this story, I need to tell one of 5 years earlier.

I was walking through the local World 4 Kids (that should tell people in Australia my age lol) when they had Constructicons on the shelf. I picked up Scrapper and Bonecrusher from memory and they were a fun nostalgia trip to a few years earlier. There were no Devastator parts to them, the card back was a little generic, but it was nice to have them again.

After applying the stickers on them though, I checked out the toy catalog/comic that came with it and I was blown away. There staring me in the face were 4 Autobot Cars. They were unknown characters, but they looked the size of the original Autobot Cars. Also there was a vibe I was getting from them - something I hadn't gotten since G1.

The years would go on, but it was because of that nostalgia moment, right when I would otherwise have probably moved on from Transformers, that the Euro G1 line has gained a special place in my heart.

Anyway, it was a few years later - 5 to be exact, when I saw the Machine Wars toys. I wouldn't say I was in the "Trukk not munkey" crowd when BW hit (it took Michael Bay to bring out a TF series I truly despise), however I remember seeing the MW stuff and feeling nostalgic for vehicles, something, as much as I loved BW, that I was sorely missing at the time. The fact that they were also reusing Predator and Turbomaster moulds,probably didn't harm their appeal to me either.

I lapped them up - until I got them home. At this point, I need to go into the love I have for the concept and the setting (which I imagined was somewhat futuristic/post-apocalyptic for some reason) but the love/hate relationship I have with the toys themselves. In fact ever since Machine Wars came out, I've been waiting and hoping that some day we'd see something for the line - to the point where at the initial announcement, I'd told myself it was gooing to be awesome and that I had to have the Botcon set this year.

First up, the small figures are wonderful - they still hold up well to this day, have decent articulation, and the auto-transform gimmick and hidden weapons (they were the first TFs to have both if you know your TF design history). Those guys I loved and still love - even if they got lazy with the card artwork.

However then you get to the medium and large figures. At this point, I need to defend the moulds themselves and say they're amazing moulds when they're done right - however that is the operative phrase. I understand US child safety standards were the fly in the ointment and accept that. However as a result, the figures, having their gimmicks gutted, are sadly shadows of their former selves. I don't hate the larger figures, but I almost feel sorry for the treatment the moulds got - in the same was a chef might feel pity if meat is cooked in a way which doesn't respect the animal it came from.

All in all, that's my sticking point here - it honestly seems like the line and the characters haven't been respected here. At this point, even though there have only been 2 reveals, we can already write off Thundercracker and Hubcap as well as Hoist and Skywarp. Hopefully Prowl/Mirage, Megatron/Megaplex, Soundwave, Prime, Sandstorm and Starscream have been done well. However with the designs of 40% of all the characters having been revealed, I'm not holding out hope for it.

Seibertron wrote:5 years in a row of disappointing BotCon sets. I'm seeing a pattern here which is unfortunate because I feel like a lot of thought and love went into the 2005, 2006, 2007 and 2008 sets (even though it appears the 2005 set has become less popular over the years as fans have found other replacements for Ironhide and Ratchet and even though I personally dislike the whole Shattered Glass idea it was still a fun idea for ONE year prior to it being overused).



The sell-out of a set does not mean that it is popular, especially when you are dealing with limited runs of 1,500+ for some figure sets or sets that are basically required to be purchased in order to enjoy the entirety of the convention because of what is available for Primus packages versus the other packages.

I feel the need to agree. I think that the 2005-2008 sets were rather well thought out....while the more recent ones just feel lazy. LAst years' being perhaps the worst offender, and honestly, I love SG.

As for the sets selling out, and that not being an exact measurement of popularity, well, that's true in everything. But in truth, we're supposed to accept a lot in this fandom based solely on sales. The Bay movies are these great summer blockbusters and make lots of money, so we should be thankful for them. Children allegedly purchase Bumblebees in enormous numbers, so despite them clogging stores everywhere we're supposed to think BB is the heart and soul of the franchise. Last years' Botcon set sells out, so we're supposed to accept that whatever the Club did is obviously right. I think the 05 set is much better than the last few years worth of sets (just me personally) and that didn't sell out until what, two years ago?

Dagon wrote:But in truth, we're supposed to accept a lot in this fandom based solely on sales.

Swap "this fandom" out for any consumer group these days and you've hit on a fairly universal truth. Quality tends not to matter these days sadly, just profit margins. One common criticism of the toy industry for example is that these days, they don't create trends like they used to in the 80s, but simply follow them trying to cash in on a fad whilst they can.

So you have this double blindness. The toy companies themselves don't see what will generate long term sales, or simply don't care.

Meanwhile consumers don't see the realities of what's going on in the toy industry. The reason prices have been cheap for so long is because they've been made essentially under sweatshop conditions in China of course. The kicker is that wages are now going up, which means prices go up for the consumer. The consumer doesn't realise that this is because wages and conditions have been improved and so when they complain about price rises they have no idea that they're actually complaining about toy factories moving away from sweatshop labour practices (although even that is far from uniform from an article I was reading on it today). Ironically many of these people would normally oppose sweatshop labour practices if they were directly aware of them.

Of course one of the big ironies of all this, is that Alan Hassenfeld (ala Hasbro) has made policing working conditions in Chinese factories servicing the toy industry a mission of his. Of course the irony that Hasbro is arguably the largest player in the toy industry, shouldn't be lost on anyone.

The upshot of all this of course is that consumerism is a raw deal for everyone but those at the top of the food chain. Those making the goods are generally trapped in a form of economic slavery, the consumers are generally reduced to passive consumption - devoid of any genuine choice, and ultimately the companies themselves lose out because the first casualty of chasing fads, is innovation, and therefore secure longevity.

Bowspearer wrote:

Dagon wrote:But in truth, we're supposed to accept a lot in this fandom based solely on sales.

Swap "this fandom" out for any consumer group these days and you've hit on a fairly universal truth. Quality tends not to matter these days sadly, just profit margins. One common criticism of the toy industry for example is that these days, they don't create trends like they used to in the 80s, but simply follow them trying to cash in on a fad whilst they can.

So you have this double blindness. The toy companies themselves don't see what will generate long term sales, or simply don't care.

Meanwhile consumers don't see the realities of what's going on in the toy industry. The reason prices have been cheap for so long is because they've been made essentially under sweatshop conditions in China of course. The kicker is that wages are now going up, which means prices go up for the consumer. The consumer doesn't realise that this is because wages and conditions have been improved and so when they complain about price rises they have no idea that they're actually complaining about toy factories moving away from sweatshop labour practices (although even that is far from uniform from an article I was reading on it today). Ironically many of these people would normally oppose sweatshop labour practices if they were directly aware of them.

Of course one of the big ironies of all this, is that Alan Hassenfeld (ala Hasbro) has made policing working conditions in Chinese factories servicing the toy industry a mission of his. Of course the irony that Hasbro is arguably the largest player in the toy industry, shouldn't be lost on anyone.

The upshot of all this of course is that consumerism is a raw deal for everyone but those at the top of the food chain. Those making the goods are generally trapped in a form of economic slavery, the consumers are generally reduced to passive consumption - devoid of any genuine choice, and ultimately the companies themselves lose out because the first casualty of chasing fads, is innovation, and therefore secure longevity.

Although its a sad clapping, as the loss of innovation is the worst loss of all. I think we, as consumers, should always ensure we do our share of research before buying anything. Seems like the only way to affect change on our side. We need to support the businesses that are taking the measures to deliver innovation without resorting to cut-corners or consumer gouging based on a trending fad. This is why I love to support 3rd party companies that take the effort to do this. Hell, it's good for business (or should be), so why not.

MINDVVIPE wrote:
Although its a sad clapping, as the loss of innovation is the worst loss of all. I think we, as consumers, should always ensure we do our share of research before buying anything. Seems like the only way to affect change on our side. We need to support the businesses that are taking the measures to deliver innovation without resorting to cut-corners or consumer gouging based on a trending fad. This is why I love to support 3rd party companies that take the effort to do this. Hell, it's good for business (or should be), so why not.

Honestly, the 3rd party stuff is a messy situation and then some. The problem is that the moment 3rd party companies start copying G1 character designs, then you're in the realms of one company ripping off character designs from another company. Add on kits should be simple and straightforward for Hasbro to give their official blessing to, but as they're not authorised, there's no licensing going on. I blame the 3rd party companies for theft and Hasbro for not doing anything definitive about the situation to resolve it.

Honestly, I'd have so much more respect for 3rd party characters if their figures were both original designs and original characters.

That said, one innovative idea which is on the horizon is Armarauders which I think we're all waiting for with baited breath.

Bowspearer wrote:That said, one innovative idea which is on the horizon is Armarauders which I think we're all waiting for with baited breath.

I'm sure as hell not "waiting for with baited breath"

I think it's a bit presumptuous to assume "we're all waiting for [Armarauders] with baited breath". I'd never even heard of them. I Googled them and checked them out, and they look cool, but I'm not really interested in them. I'm way more excited about the upcoming Transformers figures.

Arctorro wrote:I'm sure as hell not "waiting for with baited breath"

Then your "awesomeness" meter is broken

TFCC gave us caught wind of Machine Wars Strika. It's the Generations Warpath mold, and she's got a new head.

Yeah...Strika. Who'da thought?




Sources here.

U...G...L...Y... You ain't got no alibi! You ugly! What? What? You ugly!

*spittake* *cough cough* Strika?! Seriously?! I never would have expected that. Well done Fun Pub!

Wasn't Strike a Beast Machines figure, not Machine Wars?

GuyIncognito wrote:Wasn't Strike a Beast Machines figure, not Machine Wars?

Not only a Beast Machines figure, but a Beast Machines character. She wasn't even in Machine Wars, which makes it all more awesome.

But they told us we were getting some new Machine Wars characters anyway. Therefore, we're not limited to Optimus, Megaplex, Sandstorm, and co.


This is the only figure I like out of the BotCon 2013 Exclusives so far.

GuyIncognito wrote:Wasn't Strike a Beast Machines figure, not Machine Wars?

The club has said to not only do some of the original MW characters, but also add new characters into the mix, hence "Series 2". Besides, technically she's still G1-verse, given her Beast Machines debut and the placement of Machine Wars.

Here are some head turns that I forgot to include. I'll edit now.

BotCon has revealed the third figure in their 2013 convention set, Machine Wars Strika! The figure is a redeco of the Generations Warpath Deluxe mold featuring a new head sculpt. Check out the figure in robot mode below, along with a sketch of the new head sculpt.

EDIT: Never mind.

I like it. It has nothing to do with machine wars, but it just looks cool.

I also like it and am now curious if we'll get her partner in crime, Obsidian.