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Shadowman wrote:

MKF30 wrote:Ocean floor=part of earth, thus it doesn't matter. As long as there's a yellow sun in the same galaxy as Superman or Earth he's on he'll have his powers anywhere on Earth, Superman can use all his powers in the sky or inside the Earth's mantle. You seem to think Superman is 100% powerless under water when he's not.

No, but he WAS fully powerless, and he was NOT absorbing sunlight down there. Early on i the novelization, he mentions that working too hard during nighttime tires him out.

MKF30 wrote:I was referring to Superman generally speaking so I don't see how it's irrelevant. We are talking about "Superman" here are we not? Not different versions, it's the same Superman.

We ARE talking about two different versions of Superman. You may notice massive differences in power in many versions; in Justice League he was much weaker than, say, Silver Age, but much stronger than in the movies.

Yes, but again that was coming back from the DD fight..under normal circumstances Superman would have no issues under water or not.

Superman is one of those characters much like Thor, Hulk, SS etc other examples with time thru out comics where some think their powers are "inconsistent" at times pending on the writer.

Yeah, I've noticed that the movies(although portrayed still insanely powerful) it seems like nothing compared to some of the comicbound versions of him, which are also different from each other at times. Example, Silver Age vs. Golden Age and some modern stories his powers seem different then past versions.

Give Vader a Kryptonite saber and I vote for Vader to win.
Light Sabers require a force focus crystal for creation, use Kryptonite infused with the Dark side of the force.
Now Vader has the upper hand.

Under normal circumstances, Vader wouldn't have a chance or instant access to green K lol.

Supes could still nail him from a far with his heat vision, frie his cybernetic arm off lol.

MKF30 wrote:Supes could still nail him from a far with his heat vision, frie his cybernetic arm off lol.

All of Vader's limbs are cybernetic. "More machine than man," is how Obi-Wan described it.

The half way point yeah, lol. Remember seeing Revenge of the Sith, Anakin aka Darth Vader got pretty messed up. His legs nearly almost chopped off to the knee down...and his arms(one he already lost half of one in the clone wars fighting doku I believe) then in the third he lost most of his other arm as well.

That part was really cool seeing how he was put all together and all, that was also one of my fav lines in the series "He's more machine then man now"

In Superman Returns, Lex Luthor kicked the snot out of Superman. All he needed was a little kryptonite - well, okay, an entire island grown from kryptonite crystals. But still, he was able to knock him to the ground with one blow, work him over alongside his thugs, then stab him in the back. If not for Lois and her boyfriend, Superman would have been taken down by one weak but devious con man. Like Lex says, "Mind over muscle."

Vader isn't a complete idiot. Before he provokes a well-known, powerful enemy like Superman, he'll make sure to know his weaknesses. Finding a nice big chunk of Kryptonite can't be too hard for someone with an entire Imperial Starfleet at his command. Then, just like he did for Luke, Vader can easily lure him into a trap.

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(Superman smashes his way through the Executor's bridge window, setting off decompression alarms and sending the bridge crew scrambling for the exits.) "Give it up, Vader! I'll rip this ship apart with my bare hands if I have to!"

(Vader just stands there, unaffected by the vacuum.) "Impressive. Most impressive. You are indeed powerful. Your fame has spread from Earth to War World and Apokolips. I hear you even have enemies in the fifth dimension."

(Superman stalks toward Vader ... then feels himself breaking into a cold sweat.)

"However, I doubt you would have attempted to board my Star Destroyer had you been able to see through the lead shielding around its cargo bay - shielding which has just been removed, to allow that cargo to emit radiation freely."

(Superman begins gasping for air in the vacuum, as his superhuman powers begin to fade.) "I am told you have a ... soft spot for your original, shattered home planet. That a mere fragment makes you ... weak at the knees."

(Superman clutches his throat, dropping to his knees as Vader's fingers clench.) "Ah, good. In that case, I have prepared a gift for you, Kryptonian: a four million ton mass of your native soil. I see you are speechless with gratitude."

(Superman struggles to stand, as the Kryptonite radiation, hard vacuum and Vader's Force choke sap his strength.) "A pity there is no yellow sun in this part of the Galaxy, isn't it? Then you might have presented more of a challenge."

(Vader's lightsaber snaps to life as he steps forward, advancing on the now-helpless Superman.) "Now, you shall know the power of the dark side...."

Kzzz-SHUNK! Thud.

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And thus we see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb.

So did you stop watching the movie after Lex beat up Superman? Superman picked up the Kryptonite Island and threw it into space just after that, a shard of Kryptonite still lodged in him.

Fun fact: Superman cannot be stopped by Kryptonite. He can only be STALLED by Kryptonite.

Vader wins, mostly because I like him and don't care for Superman.

I don't think his speed would be a problem against Vader's Force speed and sense, and Vader's choke doesn't require any line of sight, so long as he can sense them in the Force. Superman is great, but I think he can be suffocated. He'd probably wake up though, but Vader has my vote

Armorock wrote:Vader wins, mostly because I like him and don't care for Superman.

I don't think his speed would be a problem against Vader's Force speed and sense, and Vader's choke doesn't require any line of sight, so long as he can sense them in the Force. Superman is great, but I think he can be suffocated. He'd probably wake up though, but Vader has my vote

Vader's Force Speed is still no match for Superman's speed. That, and Force Choke has it's limits, and Superman is well beyond that.

If the force was magic, Vader would have a chance...

but its microbes or some nonsense so its not magic

old-school superman physically turned back time. Can vader match that?

i dont think vaders force choke is powerful enough to stop supes.

if supes say a green lightsaber he'd probably just use lazer eye beams to make it 'splode. then freeze vader or blow him away with super breath or some other super powered nonsense.

supes wins, hands down

Name_Violation wrote:but its microbes or some nonsense so its not magic

A lot of people think that because a lot of people misunderstood what was actually said. They said that midichlorians "tell us the will of the Force." Midichlorians aren't the Force, they're just the method of channeling it.

Movie superman isn't that effected by the crypt, but small ville lays on the ground crying even when he's near the stuff. Vader does stop blasters with his hands, He's a tough dude, I take Movie superman to win, but small ville to get his but whopped like ever other episode on the show.

Darth Vader. Against Superman. Excuse me.

*Striker goes off and laughs until he's red in the face, clutching at his sides. After a few minutes, he calms down enough to speak*

Sport Vader a kryptonite lightsaber and Force=magic and I still give it to Superman 9,999 times out of 10,000.

I would assume that the Force can be considered magical, and therefore powers like force-choke would be as effective against Supes as against any human, but...

In Red Son Supes went up against a hundred or maybe a thousand green lanterns and took them all out by virtue of speed. Their rings, like the force, relied on the thoughts and will of their users, and no human can think fast enough to match Superman. Once he escaped their initial attack, he removed all of their rings, one at a time, before they could have a thought.

[And precognition has its limits - consider Quicksilver vs. Mister X]

Does anybody really think Vader would stand a chance against Superman, especially since Supes has heat vision and Vader is terrified of getting burned again.

God Thundercracker wrote:Does anybody really think Vader would stand a chance against Superman, especially since Supes has heat vision and Vader is terrified of getting burned again.

What do you mean by "terrified?" Like he has some sort of aversion to being near extreme temperatures like, for example, the blade of a Lightsaber?

this fight depends entirely on whether the force would damage superman. im going to operate on the assumption that it would, it is mystical in nature, even if there is a biological component to sentient species being able to understand it. and if it didnt work there would be no fight at all.

supermans main weapon in this would be his speed, if he wanted he could have put his fist through vaders head before vaders brain could process the precognitive sense that superman was about to kill him. however superman practically never leads with a speedblitz. it also never fights at full power so this isnt a likely scenario. hes going to give vader a look over with his x ray vision and decide to use kid gloves when bringing in this barely biological half-corpse.

vader on the other hand, even if he was aware of supermans power would assume that the power of a yellow sun was insignificant next to the power of the force, and lead with a force choke. while superman might not need oxygen, having his throat crushed isnt something hes going to take lightly. he will probably try his heat vision on vader to get him to release it, which could be neutralized by a lightsaber. so supermans next move would be to fly over and go hand to hand (ice breath is useless when your throat has collapsed).

now it will depend on whether vader can use the force to halt supermans momentum and keep him in place with the force. if not superman will get in a few shots but will only be trying to beat some reason into vader, not kill him. vader is no stranger to pain so this probably wont keep him down for long, and he will follow up with something very lethal, like pulling supermans brain out through his nose. superman goal would be to reason with or disable vader without causing him serious harm, vaders goal would be to kill superman, no questions, no gloating and no mercy.

so ultimately supermans powers are superior, to vaders, even if the force is effective. but personality is going to play the biggest part. like optimus prime supermans greatest weakness is his personality. hes going to hold back the vast majority of his power, even after he realizes vader can hurt him, and vader is going to be holding nothing back from the start.

if superman knew what vader could do hed have a much greater chance of success because he could keep moving and ko vader before vader could close in on him, but if they just happened across each other in a random meet (and the force worked on kryptonians) id give it to vader probably 7-8/10. he has the tools to kill superman and he just doesnt screw around.

I'm fairly certain the raw momentum of someone like Superman flying at Vader would be a bit too much for him to counteract. This is a guy who ties in races with the Flash, after all.

Both are over-powered and impossible. Invaders are super, man!