The Energon Pub

http://www.comingsoon.net/news/movienews.php?id=76485

"You don't make that much money on a movie - it doesn't become the number one movie in America that year if people hated it," Bay says honestly. "Yes, it might have gone south on the direction, but we were under the gun. There was a terrible writers strike and it was a sh*t position to be in. We were under a tremendous amount of pressure. We had to write it real quick. A lot of people [on a third film] will check out and get a paycheck. I've been working every day for two years because I want to make up for the second one and I want to leave this franchise the best I can."

It's been said in alot of articles that Michael Bay "hated" Revenge of the Fallen. I've been sticking to the belief he's under pressure from executives at Paramount to make critics happy with half hearted apologies. I quote the above to validate my point. He doesn't seem sorry for making it so much as he knew that if conditions had been better (no writer's strike or tightened film schedule for example) he'd have been able to make a better film.

What do you guys think? Constructive discussion only please.

There's probably a little truth to it, but I think it's more DOTM marketing than anything else. It's a great way to get those disgruntled fans who were disappointed with the previous two films interested.

oh blah. Quit blaming the writers strike. Even if it hadn't happened you would have still had those two hacks Orci and Kurtzman writing. Even with extra time nothing would have helped those two.

Capt.Failure wrote:It's been said in alot of articles that Michael Bay "hated" Revenge of the Fallen. I've been sticking to the belief he's under pressure from executives at Paramount to make critics happy with half hearted apologies. I quote the above to validate my point. He doesn't seem sorry for making it so much as he knew that if conditions had been better (no writer's strike or tightened film schedule for example) he'd have been able to make a better film.

I think you hit the nail on the head board. Does he hate ROTF? No. Does he feel it could have been better? Yes. Even if he knew at the time of release that it wasn't his best work, he's not going to just come out and say it. He had to say it was good to please the boss's and get people to watch. Now that its been a couple years, he can preety much say whatever he wants. Even though ROTF broke sales numbers and made in 3 times its buget, there's always going to be room for improvment. Luckly he reconises this, and is attempting to make better with DOTM.

Burn wrote:oh blah. Quit blaming the writers strike. Even if it hadn't happened you would have still had those two hacks Orci and Kurtzman writing. Even with extra time nothing would have helped those two.

I thought they did a great job with Star Trek.

Burn wrote:oh blah. Quit blaming the writers strike. Even if it hadn't happened you would have still had those two hacks Orci and Kurtzman writing. Even with extra time nothing would have helped those two.

True. Granted, the strike didn't help either. Filming with half a script because your hacks can't finish writing it only compounds the existing problem.

5150 Cruiser wrote:

Burn wrote:oh blah. Quit blaming the writers strike. Even if it hadn't happened you would have still had those two hacks Orci and Kurtzman writing. Even with extra time nothing would have helped those two.

I thought they did a great job with Star Trek.

I agree with both of those statements. I have some resentment towards those 2 for what happened. They could have put a little more effort into RotF, instead they chose to completely kiss the Trekkies' asses. And RotF still made more money than Star Trek.

5150 Cruiser wrote:

Burn wrote:oh blah. Quit blaming the writers strike. Even if it hadn't happened you would have still had those two hacks Orci and Kurtzman writing. Even with extra time nothing would have helped those two.

I thought they did a great job with Star Trek.

Abrams. 'nuff said.

Burn wrote:Abrams. 'nuff said.

I dunno if that fair though. Because ROTF wasn't the best, you blame Orci and Kurtzman. But when they take part in something you like (well, i'm usuming you liked it), then it all has to be based on the director. I'm not saying that Abrams didn't have anything to do with its turn out. His vision, along with O. and K writing, created movie unlike anything we've seen in the Star Trek universe.

Rodimus Prime wrote:I agree with both of those statements. I have some resentment towards those 2 for what happened. They could have put a little more effort into RotF, instead they chose to completely kiss the Trekkies' asses. And RotF still made more money than Star Trek.

To be perfectly honest, (and i might be flamed for saying this), but i think Star Trek has much better story material to work with than TF. Its focus has always been about characters and science first, with battles and explosions taking the back burner. Not to say that TF doesn't have its own back ground to follow, but with Trek, it just seems alot eaiser.

ROTF was great IMO. Best movie ever! Too bad the people who don't like it keep complaining about how much they didn't like it. If they didn't do that, I wouldn't get so pissed off about people not liking it. Alas, they did; so I do.

5150 Cruiser wrote:

Burn wrote:Abrams. 'nuff said.

I dunno if that fair though. Because ROTF wasn't the best, you blame Orci and Kurtzman. But when they take part in something you like (well, i'm usuming you liked it), then it all has to be based on the director. I'm not saying that Abrams didn't have anything to do with its turn out. His vision, along with O. and K writing, created movie unlike anything we've seen in the Star Trek universe.

Actually I didn't like Star Trek all that much for a number of varying reasons.

Plus I don't think those two deserve any credit for that movie. They had 30+ years of a somewhat set continuity to draw from.

Plus I do attribute Abrams because of Fringe. He, along with those two, created it. And it's good. It's really good.

So the way I see it, two series which they have worked on have had pretty good success and both have a shared factor. Abrams.

Look at everything else they've worked on. Nothing special there. But give them a good director and their garbage can be turned into gold.

SlyTF1 wrote:ROTF was great IMO. Best movie ever! Too bad the people who don't like it keep complaining about how much they didn't like it. If they didn't do that, I wouldn't get so pissed off about people not liking it. Alas, they did; so I do.

Their constant complaining is no different to the constant heaping of praise by those who liked it.

And you get pissed off because you need to see a doctor.

I don't think he hated it. He was probably not completely satisfied with it, but if I remember correctly, he said some pretty good stuff about it before it was released. Still, I hope that Bay is right about DOTM being better than ROTF, and it having a better story. What I really hope, however, is that the immature crude humor is gone from DOTM. I care about that far more than I care about the story. A movie with good action but without a good story can still be fun. Speed Racer is an excellent example of this. ROTF, however, was ruined by the crude humor and the action being so hard to follow.

Okay, so many are saying "well, if Michael Bay didn't like the way ROTF turned out, he wouldn't have done it the way he did in the first place."
Tell me this, have any of you ever posted on here- or any forum- with something you thought was really going to prove everyone wrong, then when you went back, or saw the reactions and looked at it again, you began to wonder why you even said what you did in the first place? It's happened to me, many, many times here.
You see, the filmmakers probably thought ROTF was going pretty well when they did it. However, with all the wars it started, and all the negative reviews, it probably warped their perspective when they went back and studied it again.
Does Michael Bay HATE ROTF? No. Is he honestly disappointed with it? Quite possibly so. If everyone loved the movie, would Michael Bay feel differently about it? Probably, because what reason would he have to reexamine the movie and try to find anything unsatisfactory? None.
Is this Bay dissapointment related to DOTM's box office sales? Possibly. But could Michael Bay actually be truly disappointed with the last film? Also possible.

OptiMagnus10 wrote:Okay, so many are saying "well, if Michael Bay didn't like the way ROTF turned out, he wouldn't have done it the way he did in the first place."
Tell me this, have any of you ever posted on here- or any forum- with something you thought was really going to prove everyone wrong, then when you went back, or saw the reactions and looked at it again, you began to wonder why you even said what you did in the first place? It's happened to me, many, many times here.
You see, the filmmakers probably thought ROTF was going pretty well when they did it. However, with all the wars it started, and all the negative reviews, it probably warped their perspective when they went back and studied it again.
Does Michael Bay HATE ROTF? No. Is he honestly disappointed with it? Quite possibly so. If everyone loved the movie, would Michael Bay feel differently about it? Probably, because what reason would he have to reexamine the movie and try to find anything unsatisfactory? None.
Is this Bay dissapointment related to DOTM's box office sales? Possibly. But could Michael Bay actually be truly disappointed with the last film? Also possible.

Oh, I have it with LOADS of things. Not just in here, in real life, too.

SlyTF1 wrote:ROTF was great IMO. Best movie ever! Too bad the people who don't like it keep complaining about how much they didn't like it. If they didn't do that, I wouldn't get so pissed off about people not liking it. Alas, they did; so I do.

It's like those people on youtube who leave trolling comments about video's they hate. If you don't like Justin Bieber, or Lady Gaga, or whoever then don't watch their videos. It's like they have nothing better to do than look for something to complain about.

So how i see this now is that Michael Bay doesnt hate ROTF,he just thought that if given the chance he could go back and fix it right?

Anyways I heard/read somewhere that during filming for ROTF,Bay was already working on DOTM.Any possibility that Bay wasnt too focused on ROTF but rather DOTM?

Ultimately his public opinion, as stated, could spawn from executive pressure. The influencing factors are...

1. Public opinion of the film was positive (75% Rotten Tomatoes viewer approval, 90% approval from viewers in interviews)
2. Box office earnings were VERY positive. ($800+ million worldwide)
3. Critical opinion was EXTREMELY negative. ("Worst movie ever." - every critic that saw it)
4. Movie site buzz was equally negative. (20% Rotten Tomatoes critic approval)

Given these four sources of info and Hollywood's natural ability to consider general audiences idiots, it's safe to assume they went with critical opinion/aggregate review scores and told Bay to hate on the film to drum up positive hype for the next film.

Note on #3: That's not totally right. Armand White liked it. Funny that the guy who goes against the norm is considered for removal from Rotten Tomatoes scoreboards, but that's a rant for another day.

I think he kind of over exaggerated. he disliked it, but i think him saying he hated it was just him trying to cover up for his mistakes . I think he just hopped on the bandwagon of ingenuity and grief.

DOTMsoundwave wrote:So how i see this now is that Michael Bay doesnt hate ROTF,he just thought that if given the chance he could go back and fix it right?

Anyways I heard/read somewhere that during filming for ROTF,Bay was already working on DOTM.Any possibility that Bay wasnt too focused on ROTF but rather DOTM?

Yeah, you pretty much hit the nail on the head.
Bay probably would want to go back on it if he could. But hey, it is what it is. It's in the past. Maybe it will serve as a good learning experience. I just hope he's not still too overly worried about ROTF but just builds upon it with the third movie.

Yes, Bay did already have a third film planned when he was making the second one. However, from what we know, he didn't do a very large amount of work on it, but probably had some of the big ideas already set up *cough* Sentinel Prime *cough*. Do I think he was more focused on #3 than #2? No. He had enough on his plate with ROTF with a writers strike and a deadline to beat, and I'm very sure a third film was the last thing he wanted to think about. In fact, he actually wanted to "take a break from Transformers" by making TF3 not two years after ROTF, but three. However, when Dreamworks called him for a release date, he accidentally said 2011 instead of 2012, so here we are.

OptiMagnus10 wrote:

DOTMsoundwave wrote:So how i see this now is that Michael Bay doesnt hate ROTF,he just thought that if given the chance he could go back and fix it right?

Anyways I heard/read somewhere that during filming for ROTF,Bay was already working on DOTM.Any possibility that Bay wasnt too focused on ROTF but rather DOTM?

Yeah, you pretty much hit the nail on the head.
Bay probably would want to go back on it if he could. But hey, it is what it is. It's in the past. Maybe it will serve as a good learning experience. I just hope he's not still too overly worried about ROTF but just builds upon it with the third movie.

Yes, Bay did already have a third film planned when he was making the second one. However, from what we know, he didn't do a very large amount of work on it, but probably had some of the big ideas already set up *cough* Sentinel Prime *cough*. Do I think he was more focused on #3 than #2? No. He had enough on his plate with ROTF with a writers strike and a deadline to beat, and I'm very sure a third film was the last thing he wanted to think about. In fact, he actually wanted to "take a break from Transformers" by making TF3 not two years after ROTF, but three. However, when Dreamworks called him for a release date, he accidentally said 2011 instead of 2012, so here we are.

You know, what you said got me thinking. What if Bay went back to RotF and made a director's cut? After the last two film's he probably has more money than God and could pull it off, and I've seen other films easily made better by director's cuts. Kingdom of Heaven especially comes to mind in this regard.

Of course knowing fandoms this would split things off into those who hated RotF, those who liked it, those who liked the directors but hated the original cut and those who hated the director's and the original oh I've gone crosseyed.

Capt.Failure wrote:What if Bay went back to RotF and made a director's cut?

Any improvement on RotF would be welcome, but would a director's cut be an improvement? He'd just be adding stuff he already shot. It's not like he'd shoot brand new scenes for the movie.

Rodimus Prime wrote:

Capt.Failure wrote:What if Bay went back to RotF and made a director's cut?

Any improvement on RotF would be welcome, but would a director's cut be an improvement? He'd just be adding stuff he already shot. It's not like he'd shoot brand new scenes for the movie.

Director's cuts aren't just adding things, but also removing things. The humor in RotF didn't bother me, for example, just as Deckard's voiceovers in Bladerunner don't bother some people. The directors cuts (of which there are many) of Bladerunner always remove the voiceovers. Maybe a DC of RotF would remove the more pointless humor scenes, or they could CGI in an extended final battle with the Fallen?

Mind you they should leave Sam's mom being high on pot in there. The amazingly embarassing nature of the scene just fits her character.

Edit: Actually, my OCD kicked in and I decided to think of some potential director's cuts...

Remove
Humping dogs
Simon's thong
The midget guard

Add
Extended fight between Optimus and the Fallen
Scene of Devestator swatting Skids (or was it Mudflap?) aside as he advances on the pyramid
Scene of Skids and Mudflap getting a pat on the back from an injured Ironhide for standing up to Devestator
Some scenes of Jolt, Arcee, Sideswipe, and Ironhide fighting during the Pyramid battle.

Hmm, good thinking. A few things to be removed for me would be:

-Dog humping
-Wheelie leg humping
-Devastator ballz
-most of Leo's dorm room and college scenes

Stuff I'd like to see added:

-More interaction between Megatron and Starscream
-longer fight between Prime and Fallen
-more exposition from Jetfire on the Transformers' past

Rodimus Prime wrote:-Devastator ballz

Yeah that they could just digitally cut out, and Simon's line would still make sense cause Simons is wierd enough to say a line like that. ("I'm right beneath the enemy's scrotum!")

Capt.Failure wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:-Devastator ballz

Yeah that they could just digitally cut out, and Simon's line would still make sense cause Simons is wierd enough to say a line like that. ("I'm right beneath the enemy's scrotum!")

Just to be clear (not to be annoying or anything), it was more like: "I am directly below (whispering) the enemy scrotum!"

Evil_the_Nub wrote:

SlyTF1 wrote:ROTF was great IMO. Best movie ever! Too bad the people who don't like it keep complaining about how much they didn't like it. If they didn't do that, I wouldn't get so pissed off about people not liking it. Alas, they did; so I do.

It's like those people on youtube who leave trolling comments about video's they hate. If you don't like Justin Bieber, or Lady Gaga, or whoever then don't watch their videos. It's like they have nothing better to do than look for something to complain about.

A great analogy that doesn't apply here at all. If you're on this site, you're a Transformers fan, you see. So we're not people who hate Transformers making negative comments, we're people who LOVE Transformers, and wanted to see it get a better adaptation on the big screen...who leave negative comments.

Capt.Failure wrote:Remove
Humping dogs
Simon's thong
The midget guard

Add
Extended fight between Optimus and the Fallen
Scene of Devestator swatting Skids (or was it Mudflap?) aside as he advances on the pyramid
Scene of Skids and Mudflap getting a pat on the back from an injured Ironhide for standing up to Devestator
Some scenes of Jolt, Arcee, Sideswipe, and Ironhide fighting during the Pyramid battle.

That, all of that. Cut the crude humor, and replace it with more face-time for the robots.