The Energon Pub

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

oldskooltf wrote:Give it a chance. And remember that it's not just Michael Bay at work -- it's the people who work with him too -- all the artists and computer graphics guys... many of which are big TF fans!

I agree in giving it a chance but the fact that artists and computer graphics guys claim to be fans means nothing to me.

The writters of the last film claimed to be big TF fans as well and we know how the characterizations turned out.

I had little problems with the characterizations. Yes, there were minor things here and there, but overall I enjoyed the first movie a lot.

The one artist had like tons of toys all over his office/work space. I'm not trying to start a comparison argument, but he's obviously a big fan, and others were too, including the writers. Maybe not as big of fans as some on this site -- but who on this site is making movies for hollywood?

Yes, Michael Bay knew very little about TF history and probably is still learning about it! Yes, he called Scorponok "Scorpinox" which is wrong and the whole devastator/brawl problem is very annoying to me too.

But Bay has lots of good qualities as a movie maker -- he's just not a long time TF fan -- but what director in Hollywood is? And even if you can find one, would they be as good at making the explosions and action realistic as Bay can and do they have the same amazing relationship with the US Military as Bay did?

Before you say "who cares", I for one am thankful Bay has that relationship because otherwise Starscream would not have been an F22 -- and in my opinion (okay I'm a big Starscream fan) he should be the fastest bad @zz jet out there.


I just feel like there are people on this site (not saying everyone, but there are some) that will never be happy with a TF live-action movie. It's like you've been given a 12 oz steak after not having one in 22 years, and you complain about it not being a prime rib. I just don't agree with that train of thought (not trying to be offensive... I respect the ability to agree to disagree).

I don't get were this attitude of "Bay is dumb cos he knows little to nothing about a toyline" comes from. And I really dislike the fact that people have to analyse the damn movie for all it's worth, seriously grow up and just watch it as what it is a god damn movie about gad damned robots from outa space that kill things.

I just wish they had done 1 of 2 things with the first film.

1] A better script

or

2] more or a resemblance to the G1 counterparts in appearance.

either would have made me much happier.

Dead Metal wrote:I don't get were this attitude of "Bay is dumb cos he knows little to nothing about a toyline" comes from. And I really dislike the fact that people have to analyse the damn movie for all it's worth, seriously grow up and just watch it as what it is a god damn movie about gad damned robots from outa space that kill things.

If it was actully a movie about that then we wouldn't have a problem. Did we even see the same movie? I didn't see "a god damn movie about gad damned robots from outa space that kill things" I saw a gawd damn movie about a bunch of humans getting stuck in the middle of a war between a bunch of poorly designed alien robots with little to no characterization blowing **** up and getting their asses kicked by said humans.

Short version. It's not a movie about alien robots, it's a movie about humans reacting to alien robots. To put it more clearly it's like makeing a Batman movie, haveing only the villians in the movie and not showing Batman/Bruce Wayne at all till the last 15 min of the entire movie. Then you leave the movie wandering where the hell he was for the mojority of the movie and what he was doing all that time. That's basically how Transformers turned out.

The main focus of Transformers should of been the Transformers, insted they were little more than a way to increase ticket sales on a title that had little to do with what the movie was actully about. No the movie was not about alien robots, it was about HUMANS... on Earth... being invaded by alien robots... and as such the movie was no better than any alien invasion film that came before it. Aliens come, cause mayhem, get killed by inferior race of fleshlings, and all just to make said inferior race of fleshlings feel a little less inferior despite the fact they know that if that actully happened it would be the end of our world.

Here's the twist though, some of the aliens are on our side but how much did they actully help us?

Were the Autobots around when the air base was under attack? Nope, just humans and 2 Decepticons with no characterization throughout the entire movie.

Were the Autobots around to save thoughs humans in the desert from Scorpinok? Nope they had to fight him themselfs and some of them actully survived throughout the whole movie. Hell they even figured out how to kill the **** robots.

Were the Autobots around at any point in the movie to save any humans from being killed? Bumblebee saved Sam and Mikala multiple times, that was all and even they had to fight Frenzy by themselfs. Oh and while they were doing that Bumblebee had that great fight with Barricade that was so freaking awsome oh wait no it wasn't because we never got to see it.

I think everyone who liked that movie must of seen an entirely different version that I'm not aware of because the movie I saw had verry little to do with the Transformers.

Saber Prime wrote:

Dead Metal wrote:I don't get were this attitude of "Bay is dumb cos he knows little to nothing about a toyline" comes from. And I really dislike the fact that people have to analyse the damn movie for all it's worth, seriously grow up and just watch it as what it is a god damn movie about gad damned robots from outa space that kill things.

If it was actully a movie about that then we wouldn't have a problem. Did we even see the same movie? I didn't see "a god damn movie about gad damned robots from outa space that kill things" I saw a gawd damn movie about a bunch of humans getting stuck in the middle of a war between a bunch of poorly designed alien robots with little to no characterization blowing **** up and getting their asses kicked by said humans.

Short version. It's not a movie about alien robots, it's a movie about humans reacting to alien robots. To put it more clearly it's like makeing a Batman movie, haveing only the villians in the movie and not showing Batman/Bruce Wayne at all till the last 15 min of the entire movie. Then you leave the movie wandering where the hell he was for the mojority of the movie and what he was doing all that time. That's basically how Transformers turned out.

The main focus of Transformers should of been the Transformers, insted they were little more than a way to increase ticket sales on a title that had little to do with what the movie was actully about. No the movie was not about alien robots, it was about HUMANS... on Earth... being invaded by alien robots... and as such the movie was no better than any alien invasion film that came before it. Aliens come, cause mayhem, get killed by inferior race of fleshlings, and all just to make said inferior race of fleshlings feel a little less inferior despite the fact they know that if that actully happened it would be the end of our world.

Here's the twist though, some of the aliens are on our side but how much did they actully help us?

Were the Autobots around when the air base was under attack? Nope, just humans and 2 Decepticons with no characterization throughout the entire movie.

Were the Autobots around to save thoughs humans in the desert from Scorpinok? Nope they had to fight him themselfs and some of them actully survived throughout the whole movie. Hell they even figured out how to kill the **** robots.

Were the Autobots around at any point in the movie to save any humans from being killed? Bumblebee saved Sam and Mikala multiple times, that was all and even they had to fight Frenzy by themselfs. Oh and while they were doing that Bumblebee had that great fight with Barricade that was so freaking awsome oh wait no it wasn't because we never got to see it.

I think everyone who liked that movie must of seen an entirely different version that I'm not aware of because the movie I saw had verry little to do with the Transformers.

On many of your points, I agree with your frustration.

I too wanted more TFs and less humans. I wanted more characterization, especially Starscream & Megatron.

It is to my understanding that we got so much human time due to (1) limited budget which means they could only afford so much TF time (robot mode) and (2) the plot of mankind figuring out who the TFs are.

I actually didn't mind the plot though when I watched it for the first time. I enjoy most of the humor (key word is most), and the ending did not dissappoint me (Starscream's transforming in the air and taking out a jet and then transforming back to jet mode was very cool).

So... honestly, when I watch it now by myself, I watch Blackout in the beginning, skip to Frenzy on Air Force One, skip to Scorponok, skip to Barricade and Bumblebee, and then skip to when the other autobots come to earth. I watch the rest of the movie from that point on.

So, SaberPrime, I'm agreeing with you on a lot of your frustration, but I guess the difference is... I still enjoy the 2007 movie a lot and I'm definitely looking forward to RotF. Now Bay and his crew have a much bigger budget -- so I'm not suprised that now we're getting 40 robots including more of Starscream and also Devastator...

... and I hope more characterization.

Despite it's flaws (and IMHO every movie has its flaws), my opinion is that the 2007 movie was great for bringing Transformers to people who weren't fans before, and it was enjoyable for me as long time a fan (since I was a kid in the 80s).

oldskooltf wrote:It is to my understanding that we got so much human time due to (1) limited budget which means they could only afford so much TF time (robot mode) and (2) the plot of mankind figuring out who the TFs are.

1 is the main reason I'm even going to attempt to watch the second movie even though I think it's not going to be much if at all better than the first. In this particular instance I actully hope that I'm wrong and the larger budget will allow for a better movie that I can enjoy despite the designs which I still hate. (as I said before I can overlook the designs as long as the story is good.)

So, SaberPrime, I'm agreeing with you on a lot of your frustration, but I guess the difference is... I still enjoy the 2007 movie a lot and I'm definitely looking forward to RotF. Now Bay and his crew have a much bigger budget -- so I'm not suprised that now we're getting 40 robots including more of Starscream and also Devastator...

... and I hope more characterization.

If that part about 40 robots is true and I'd like to know where you heard that from, then I doubt there will be much characterization.

If I've learned one thing from past TF series that I wish the shows would learn it's that the more TFs you try to shove on screen the less characterization they'll actully have. Basically there's no way in hell you can give that many characters enough screen time for them to all have characterization done and the majority of them as a result become little more than extras to fill space in crowd and/or battle scenes. Which is preddy much what I thought of all the Transformers in the first movie except for Bumblebee.

Anyway this is one of the reasons I like Beast Wars, Beast Machines, and Transformers Animated so much. They never have an overload of cast members trying to fight for screen time. Animated actully does have quite a large cast but they've managed to work around that by devoting episodes to only small groups of them at a time which so far has worked rather well for that series.

I think the only character so far to appear on screen in Animated and not get any Characterization is Cliffjumper. He technically hasn't even been named on screen yet but come on do you know any other red Bumblebee look-a-likes?

I figure the "40 TFs" will be, aside from the main characters, more or less background characters and cannon fodder, like most of the mutants in X-Men 3.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:I just wish they had done 1 of 2 things with the first film.

1] A better script

or

2] more or a resemblance to the G1 counterparts in appearance.

either would have made me much happier.

I hate to say this like every other day, but(this is not to just you, but everyone):

IF YOU WANT G1, GO WATCH G1!!!!

_________________________________________________

Megatron is definately in the movie

*Soundwave* wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:I just wish they had done 1 of 2 things with the first film.

1] A better script

or

2] more or a resemblance to the G1 counterparts in appearance.

either would have made me much happier.

I hate to say this like every other day, but(this is not to just you, but everyone):

IF YOU WANT G1, GO WATCH G1!!!!

I can't speak for sto_vo_kor_2000, but my guess is that's not what he meant. You can wish more resemblance to G1 without wanting it to be G1. For example... TF Animated is NOT G1 however many of its characters have resemblances to G1 -- Megatron is not a gun and his voice is not the same as G1, however his cannon, face, and other parts of him give nods to G1.

I'm guessing that's what sto_vo_kor_2000 and others were hoping for in the live action movies.

Movie Optimus Prime and Bumblebee are some of the few who do justice giving nods to their original G1 counterparts (especially Optimus). Movie Jazz, Ratchet, and Ironhide are not the same color schemes but yet their roles as autobots are essentially the same (example: Ratchet being a medical officer). Apparently the color red and also white are not live action movie friendly???

Movie Megatron does have a similar color scheme to G1 (grey/silver) and Starscream is still the fastest jet and Frenzy is still very small.

I'd say Brawl (hate it how it says Devastator in the 2007 movie for him) is IMHO a good updated live action movie version of his former G1 self (aside from the fact that he doesn't combine with 4 other deceps to make Bruticus). Same goes for Scorponok (aside from being much smaller in scale than his G1 self).

Many of the fans just don't get why Starscream's face has no resemblance to G1 at all. Why call a "Buffalo" military vehicle Bonecrusher? -- perhaps they didn't know they'd make constructicons in TF2 back when making TF1 or just wanted to use the "cool" name.

In TF:RotF, it appears that less emphasis is being put on resemblance to G1 than TF1 did. Devastator is still 6 constructicons but looks WAY different -- many resent the ape look.

So... it's not that people want G1 all over again (I don't), but they want the live action films to be even more inspired by G1 than what it already is (color scheme and face). I'd guess that people would be more happy with the designs if it wasn't for the faces (aside from Prime's, and maybe ok for Blackout and Brawl too).


Personally, I like that the graphic designers have at least tried to make movie characters with G1 names have at least one similar characteristic -- color, alt mode, personality, or role -- to their G1 counterpart (aside from maybe Skids and Bonecrusher).

Saber Prime wrote:If that part about 40 robots is true and I'd like to know where you heard that from, then I doubt there will be much characterization.

If I've learned one thing from past TF series that I wish the shows would learn it's that the more TFs you try to shove on screen the less characterization they'll actully have. Basically there's no way in hell you can give that many characters enough screen time for them to all have characterization done and the majority of them as a result become little more than extras to fill space in crowd and/or battle scenes. Which is preddy much what I thought of all the Transformers in the first movie except for Bumblebee.

I have to admit... you make a good point. Maybe they'll just focus on the developing 6-12 characters in depth and the rest are for higher numbers for epic battles.

*Soundwave* wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:I just wish they had done 1 of 2 things with the first film.

1] A better script

or

2] more or a resemblance to the G1 counterparts in appearance.

either would have made me much happier.

I hate to say this like every other day, but(this is not to just you, but everyone):

IF YOU WANT G1, GO WATCH G1!!!!

Its not about wanting G1 to say you would like to see more of a reseblannce to it.

G1 started it all and there's nothing wrong in wanting to see a few nods in their appearances.

After all they went with G1 names.....is it so much of a problem to make the characters a little recognizable???

oldskooltf wrote:

*Soundwave* wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:I just wish they had done 1 of 2 things with the first film.

1] A better script

or

2] more or a resemblance to the G1 counterparts in appearance.

either would have made me much happier.

I hate to say this like every other day, but(this is not to just you, but everyone):

IF YOU WANT G1, GO WATCH G1!!!!

I can't speak for sto_vo_kor_2000, but my guess is that's not what he meant. You can wish more resemblance to G1 without wanting it to be G1. For example... TF Animated is NOT G1 however many of its characters have resemblances to G1 -- Megatron is not a gun and his voice is not the same as G1, however his cannon, face, and other parts of him give nods to G1.

I'm guessing that's what sto_vo_kor_2000 and others were hoping for in the live action movies.

Movie Optimus Prime and Bumblebee are some of the few who do justice giving nods to their original G1 counterparts (especially Optimus). Movie Jazz, Ratchet, and Ironhide are not the same color schemes but yet their roles as autobots are essentially the same (example: Ratchet being a medical officer). Apparently the color red and also white are not live action movie friendly???

Movie Megatron does have a similar color scheme to G1 (grey/silver) and Starscream is still the fastest jet and Frenzy is still very small.

I'd say Brawl (hate it how it says Devastator in the 2007 movie for him) is IMHO a good updated live action movie version of his former G1 self (aside from the fact that he doesn't combine with 4 other deceps to make Bruticus). Same goes for Scorponok (aside from being much smaller in scale than his G1 self).

Many of the fans just don't get why Starscream's face has no resemblance to G1 at all. Why call a "Buffalo" military vehicle Bonecrusher? -- perhaps they didn't know they'd make constructicons in TF2 back when making TF1 or just wanted to use the "cool" name.

In TF:RotF, it appears that less emphasis is being put on resemblance to G1 than TF1 did. Devastator is still 6 constructicons but looks WAY different -- many resent the ape look.

So... it's not that people want G1 all over again (I don't), but they want the live action films to be even more inspired by G1 than what it already is (color scheme and face). I'd guess that people would be more happy with the designs if it wasn't for the faces (aside from Prime's, and maybe ok for Blackout and Brawl too).


Personally, I like that the graphic designers have at least tried to make movie characters with G1 names have at least one similar characteristic -- color, alt mode, personality, or role -- to their G1 counterpart (aside from maybe Skids and Bonecrusher).

Thank you.

I have to agree with the two who talked about the G1 Resembalance. I get sick of people thinking that just because we want something recognizable as a character to Transformers that some how automatically means we want a pure remake of G1.

Most people unless they actully ARE G1 purists who hate every TF line except the original when they say they want more of a resembalance to G1 characters or more recognizable as G1 characters all that means is appearance not story or characterization.

Look at all the super hero movies we have. How many comic book characters can you think of who have gone so far off their original incarnation that they are no longer even recognizable as that character? The answer, Green Goblin. The movie version of Green Goblin looks absolutly nothing like his comic book counterpart however he does still maintain some trade marked traits of the original. The mirror scene in the movie was pulled from the original as was haveing his helmet/mask hang off the chair and Osborn talking to it.

How much of the Transformers can actully be recognized as Transformers characters? Optimus Prime still has the same blue helmet and mouth plate just with more detailing and his head is oddly thin now. Jazz managed to keep his visored look but he got killed before his character could even be devoloped.

Bumblebee, aside from being yellow, looks horrible and like he doesn't even have a face. Ratchet looks more like Tidal Wave but he definatly has the wrong alt mode to be the Decepticon Air Craft Carrior. Ironhide, I don't what the hell that is supose to be.

My other problem with the designs. The Decepticons look so different from the Autobots in their head sculpts that I can't even belive they're supose to be from the same planet. Autobots look alot better than the Decepticons do and one of them doesn't even have a face.

The Decepticons look like they were built by a race of giant insects while the Autobots actully look somewhat human. If they're going to screw up the designs like that they could at least do it for both sides so they actully look like they're from the same planet.

There is not one single Decepticon in the movie I can recognize as anything related to Transformers. There is however one Decepticon I think Lucas Arts should own the rights to. That would be Frenzy, I sware he looks like a droid from Star Wars and I guess they can get away with it because of the Transformers Star Wars Crossovers.

Every character in the first movie at least is like that. I can recognize them as anything EXCEPT Transformers. I can't look at any robot toy without thinking it's from the movie line and takeing a closer look at it.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

*Soundwave* wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:I just wish they had done 1 of 2 things with the first film.

1] A better script

or

2] more or a resemblance to the G1 counterparts in appearance.

either would have made me much happier.

I hate to say this like every other day, but(this is not to just you, but everyone):

IF YOU WANT G1, GO WATCH G1!!!!

Its not about wanting G1 to say you would like to see more of a reseblannce to it.

G1 started it all and there's nothing wrong in wanting to see a few nods in their appearances.

After all they went with G1 names.....is it so much of a problem to make the characters a little recognizable???

Ok, I see your view now

I agree with you too, mostly on the main characters (OP, Megatron, SS, SW, etc) you should be able to tell that it is them. Like with Starscream, I know hes not the right colors or shape or anything, but if Bay is telling the truth, the way he acts in the new movie will be reminiscent of him. As for Megatron, of course you can't have a giant gin floating around.

TOLD YOU!!! Orci confirms because he could no longer hide behind my logic. Now... why did Bay lie?

crashbarbarian wrote:TOLD YOU!!! Orci confirms because he could no longer hide behind my logic. Now... why did Bay lie?

Because there's a misinformation campaign. Mr. Bay is making up a bunch of fake spoilers and info to disguise real spoilers and info, so everything is kept a surprise until it comes out.