The Energon Pub

News Credits: 12 · by **robofreak** » Tue Mar 08, 2011 5:18 pm

Seibertron wrote:
robofreak wrote:
Amelie wrote:It seems unlikely that we could allow something to sink into the plastic in the case of GPS - don't forget the breakdown is caused by the metallic flecks breaking the plastic apart.

But... I think we could coat the plastic, maybe in a layer of resin\varnish to help hold the plastic together. Although even if that did work, you'd still be left with the issue that the new layer has left the toy rather still\unable to transform fully.

How about we just recast all the GPS affected parts and use a plastic that isn't as weak for the new batch?

That way, we can just replace all the parts.

I keep hoping a 3rd party company does this.

Give me a year, and I'll start pounding away at it. I've got some friends in injection molding and what I have been thinking about doing is creating a master set that can be bought that would have all the parts you would need to replace the plastic on a GPS figure. I should be able to find a completely new gold plastic that shouldn't have the breakdown issues.

News Credits: 3596 · by **Seibertron** » Tue Mar 08, 2011 5:21 pm

robofreak wrote:
Seibertron wrote:
robofreak wrote:
Amelie wrote:It seems unlikely that we could allow something to sink into the plastic in the case of GPS - don't forget the breakdown is caused by the metallic flecks breaking the plastic apart.

But... I think we could coat the plastic, maybe in a layer of resin\varnish to help hold the plastic together. Although even if that did work, you'd still be left with the issue that the new layer has left the toy rather still\unable to transform fully.

How about we just recast all the GPS affected parts and use a plastic that isn't as weak for the new batch?

That way, we can just replace all the parts.

I keep hoping a 3rd party company does this.

Give me a year, and I'll start pounding away at it. I've got some friends in injection molding and what I have been thinking about doing is creating a master set that can be bought that would have all the parts you would need to replace the plastic on a GPS figure. I should be able to find a completely new gold plastic that shouldn't have the breakdown issues.

The trick is figuring out which figures would be most desirable to have this problem resolved. I don't see a lot of people going out to buy expensive replacement parts for their BWII Randy. Maybe G2 Slingshot would be a good start since you could use G1 Slingshot to create the master.

News Credits: 33 · by **Amelie** » Tue Mar 08, 2011 5:25 pm

Seibertron wrote:I'd rather find a different solution. Coating the plastic seems like painting yellowed plastic.

What if it has something to do with the metallic flakes as well as the yellowing issue which is caused by the fire retardant breaking down in the ABS plastic? It would make sense that after X amount of time that both gold plastic and other colored plastic both suffer from the fire retardant breaking down. The gold plastic, due to its makeup, reacts differently by becoming fragile due to the metal flakes. No one bought a gold plastic figure off the shelf and had it break the moment they got home from the store. It always happens a few years later.

http://www.textilesfr.co.uk/FibresFlammability.html

It seems like the Bromine fire retardant is designed to behave in this fashion. To prevent the breakdown, we'd need a chemical that won't discolour the plastic, will permeate it and prevent the Bromine breaking down.

by **toyfixer** » Fri Apr 08, 2011 6:38 pm

Does anyone have pictures of toys they tried this on a year ago, and now? 2 years ago and now even?

I mostly collect Star Wars and people are using this method to whiten figures and then get them AFA graded higher...

I have heard both sides that they start to yellow again in a year, or they stay white.. but noone has produced good comparison-over-time photos AFAIK..

I would love to have some good before and after pics for my blog, too..

News Credits: 1 · by **Blackstreak** » Mon May 16, 2011 5:53 pm

I just found this thread and the links to retrobright. I decided to try this on my Battletrap. The helicopter has some of the worst yellowing in any of my collection.

So I start by dumping the heli in H2O2, then I read about not letting the H2O2 get to the metal parts like screws and springs. I began taking it apart and realize it's got metal posts that I can't just slide out. Anyone got a metal post-remover so I don't bang the crap out of my TF? :lol:

News Credits: 187 · by **GetRightRobot** » Thu Jul 14, 2011 11:01 am

Just thought I would post another testimonial. I used my most heavily yellowed figure, G1 Getaway. 4 days with the cheapest Hydrogen Peroxide Wal-Mart had to offer, 3% H2O2. I picked this figure up for a dollar at a yard sale, used 2 bottles of stuff and bought an $8 sticker sheet from Reprolabels.com so $11 bucks and he is WHITE. So umm.... anybody got a Powermaster/Nebulon Rev for sale???

This stuff works, it did fade the paint a tiny bit on the wind shield but had no noticeable affects on plastic strength or metal. I feel safe trying this on any figure.

News Credits: 3596 · by **Seibertron** » Sun Apr 15, 2012 11:44 pm

I restored my e-Hobby G1 Ghost Starscream, which was the first time I had tried this on a transparent or clear figure. I didn't think the H202 was working that well because the parts still had a slight yellow tint to them in person (which doesn't show up in my pictures), but it's a remarkable improvement as you can see for yourself below. The parts could have probably been left in the H202 for another day or two, but I was worried about damaging the clear plastic.

Note: there's nothing wrong with the red in my actual photos, it's how Facebook saved the pics at a lower JPEG quality that's causing the red to look weird in the pics below.

News Credits: 187 · by **GetRightRobot** » Mon Apr 16, 2012 4:51 am

yep, that's pretty.

News Credits: 3596 · by **Seibertron** » Fri Jul 27, 2012 3:14 pm

Has anyone tried putting a coating of vaseline over a sticker and left it on to see if that coats the sticker to prevent it from getting damaged while soaking it in h2o2? I have a G1 Masterforce Go Shooter that I just got that's a little off-white that I want to try but haven't decided which way I want to go to try to preserve the stickers as best as possible.

I could go the lighter fluid route and try to take the stickers off that way, but there's always the possibility of ripping or bending the sticker unintentionally. I thought I had read somewhere that someone put vaseline on their stickers first before submerging the figure in H202 but have never left stickers on a part when I've done the H202 treatment.

Just curious if anyone else has read about this (any links?) or tried this themselves.

News Credits: 1 · by **MightyMagnus78** » Fri Jul 27, 2012 5:48 pm

Seibertron wrote:Has anyone tried putting a coating of vaseline over a sticker and left it on to see if that coats the sticker to prevent it from getting damaged while soaking it in h2o2? I have a G1 Masterforce Go Shooter that I just got that's a little off-white that I want to try but haven't decided which way I want to go to try to preserve the stickers as best as possible.

I could go the lighter fluid route and try to take the stickers off that way, but there's always the possibility of ripping or bending the sticker unintentionally. I thought I had read somewhere that someone put vaseline on their stickers first before submerging the figure in H202 but have never left stickers on a part when I've done the H202 treatment.

Just curious if anyone else has read about this (any links?) or tried this themselves.

Doesn't the plastic turn yellow under the sticker anyway?

News Credits: 3596 · by **Seibertron** » Fri Jul 27, 2012 5:51 pm

MightyMagnus78 wrote:
Seibertron wrote:Has anyone tried putting a coating of vaseline over a sticker and left it on to see if that coats the sticker to prevent it from getting damaged while soaking it in h2o2? I have a G1 Masterforce Go Shooter that I just got that's a little off-white that I want to try but haven't decided which way I want to go to try to preserve the stickers as best as possible.

I could go the lighter fluid route and try to take the stickers off that way, but there's always the possibility of ripping or bending the sticker unintentionally. I thought I had read somewhere that someone put vaseline on their stickers first before submerging the figure in H202 but have never left stickers on a part when I've done the H202 treatment.

Just curious if anyone else has read about this (any links?) or tried this themselves.

Doesn't the plastic turn yellow under the sticker anyway?

Not necessarily. I've removed many stickers and it's as white as day underneath the sticker. I'm assuming that's because the sticker blocks the harmful sun rays from reaching the plastic underneath. I'm assuming this is not always the case and that there are instances where the stickers doesn't matter.

News Credits: 1 · by **MightyMagnus78** » Fri Jul 27, 2012 6:02 pm

Seibertron wrote:
MightyMagnus78 wrote:
Seibertron wrote:Has anyone tried putting a coating of vaseline over a sticker and left it on to see if that coats the sticker to prevent it from getting damaged while soaking it in h2o2? I have a G1 Masterforce Go Shooter that I just got that's a little off-white that I want to try but haven't decided which way I want to go to try to preserve the stickers as best as possible.

I could go the lighter fluid route and try to take the stickers off that way, but there's always the possibility of ripping or bending the sticker unintentionally. I thought I had read somewhere that someone put vaseline on their stickers first before submerging the figure in H202 but have never left stickers on a part when I've done the H202 treatment.

Just curious if anyone else has read about this (any links?) or tried this themselves.

Doesn't the plastic turn yellow under the sticker anyway?

Not necessarily. I've removed many stickers and it's as white as day underneath the sticker. I'm assuming that's because the sticker blocks the harmful sun rays from reaching the plastic underneath. I'm assuming this is not always the case and that there are instances where the stickers doesn't matter.

Fare point, but why risk it?

News Credits: 3596 · by **Seibertron** » Fri Jul 27, 2012 7:06 pm

MightyMagnus78 wrote:
Seibertron wrote:
MightyMagnus78 wrote:
Seibertron wrote:Has anyone tried putting a coating of vaseline over a sticker and left it on to see if that coats the sticker to prevent it from getting damaged while soaking it in h2o2? I have a G1 Masterforce Go Shooter that I just got that's a little off-white that I want to try but haven't decided which way I want to go to try to preserve the stickers as best as possible.

I could go the lighter fluid route and try to take the stickers off that way, but there's always the possibility of ripping or bending the sticker unintentionally. I thought I had read somewhere that someone put vaseline on their stickers first before submerging the figure in H202 but have never left stickers on a part when I've done the H202 treatment.

Just curious if anyone else has read about this (any links?) or tried this themselves.

Doesn't the plastic turn yellow under the sticker anyway?

Not necessarily. I've removed many stickers and it's as white as day underneath the sticker. I'm assuming that's because the sticker blocks the harmful sun rays from reaching the plastic underneath. I'm assuming this is not always the case and that there are instances where the stickers doesn't matter.

Fare point, but why risk it?

Because there are no repro labels for Go Shooter. He's a very expensive and rare G1 figure from Japan that was released in 1988. If these stickers are damaged, there's no replacing them for the time being.

News Credits: 60 · by **fenrir72** » Fri Jul 27, 2012 8:11 pm

I have the same dilema with my G1 Countdown. Half the white on the rocket is yellow(including the surface of the panel that hides the canon like weapon)

I know reprolabels already has the label sheet replacement and all I have to do is a bit of disassembly right? Though I kind of want to preserve the original labels.........

For the rocket booster, do I use pure H2O2( how much ml should I use) or dilute it in 1L of water?

News Credits: 5749 · by **El Duque** » Fri Jul 27, 2012 9:04 pm

Pure H2O2, don't dilute it.

News Credits: 5749 · by **El Duque** » Fri Jul 27, 2012 9:08 pm

Here's a brief tutorial I sent to a facebook friend who was interested in the process:

You'll need hydrogen peroxide and some clear sealable containers. You can use any strength peroxide, but I prefer the higher percentage stuff that you can buy at pool supply stores. I use Softswim Clarifier C, which is about 28% opposed to the 3% you can get at department stores. It does require some caution, if you get the high strength stuff on your skin it will turn bone white and sting for about an hour.

Disassemble your figure so you are only whitening the discolored parts. Make sure to remove any screws or pins as they will rust. Sometimes it's unavoidable with riveted-on parts or stubborn pins, if that's the case limited exposure isn't the end of the world just be sure to thoroughly dry the parts as soon as they come out. Stickers and paint will also survive limited exposure, the longer the soak the more they will fade and come loose, but for the most part they will survive this process.

Once you have the figure broken down, place the parts to be whitened into your containers and pour in the peroxide covering all the parts. Don't overcrowd the containers, because you want them to all get equal exposure to...............................................wait for it...............................the sun! Ironically, UV light is the catalyst for the whitening process. Once you have all your parts in the the containers with the peroxide, seal them and place them in direct sunlight. Magically watch the yellowing disappear. Time depends on the severity of the yellowing, but after about an hour in high strength peroxide and direct sunlight you should see a significant change in color.

I use sealable plastic containers from Wal-Mart. They come from the kitchen area and feature a clear spring loaded resealable lid. The clear lid allows more sunlight to enter the container. I also set my containers on a mirror, that way the sunlight is also reflected up on the bottom of the parts.

Once the desired whiteness is achieved remove the parts, rinse them in fresh water, and allow them to dry. Reassemble the figure and done!

Hope that helps!

News Credits: 60 · by **fenrir72** » Fri Jul 27, 2012 11:03 pm

I'll try that El Duque. Thanks for clarifying........

News Credits: 3596 · by **Seibertron** » Sat Jul 28, 2012 2:40 pm

I bought some of the pool supply stuff per El Duque's suggestion. Just got my hands on a couple of Go Shooters that I want to restore. I've got Go Shooter sitting out in a glass just that I filled part of the way with the Clarifier. Can't believe how much faster this stuff is than the 3% H2O2 from regular stores. Go Shooter should be all set here in about 30 minutes or so. He's been out for about an hour, just checked on him and it's bubbling like crazy and I can already see the difference. My biggest concern is the blue plastic that yellowed to a kind off bluish-green color. Hopefully because of how quickly this stuff works, it won't fade the blue and the blue will actual become de-yellowed just like the white plastic will.

News Credits: 5749 · by **El Duque** » Sat Jul 28, 2012 2:52 pm

Seibertron wrote:I bought some of the pool supply stuff per El Duque's suggestion. Just got my hands on a couple of Go Shooters that I want to restore. I've got Go Shooter sitting out in a glass just that I filled part of the way with the Clarifier. Can't believe how much faster this stuff is than the 3% H2O2 from regular stores. Go Shooter should be all set here in about 30 minutes or so. He's been out for about an hour, just checked on him and it's bubbling like crazy and I can already see the difference. My biggest concern is the blue plastic that yellowed to a kind off bluish-green color.

Actually the Clarifier should restore the discolored blue plastic as well. I used Clarifier to to restore a G1 Grotesque that had turned a deep maroon back to his original magenta.

by **Lazerface** » Sun Jul 29, 2012 4:26 pm

Has anyone tried peroxide to get the yellow out of a G1 Swoop's head or any similar clear plastic?

I don't think there is any way to take the head off to do it. I'm afraid of the head melting, and I'd have to find some way to cover the rest of the body so it wasn't exposed to the sun.

Does anyone have a broken head they could experiment with?

News Credits: 3596 · by **Seibertron** » Sun Jul 29, 2012 6:35 pm

Lazerface wrote:Has anyone tried peroxide to get the yellow out of a G1 Swoop's head or any similar clear plastic?

I don't think there is any way to take the head off to do it. I'm afraid of the head melting, and I'd have to find some way to cover the rest of the body so it wasn't exposed to the sun.

Does anyone have a broken head they could experiment with?

Peroxide doesn't "melt" plastic. I had some luck with the "clear" plastic in an H202 bath with ghost Starscream. You can see the before and after picks on Seibertron.com's Facebook page.

Before: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... =3&theater

After: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... =3&theater

by **Lazerface** » Sun Jul 29, 2012 8:55 pm

^ Yeah. I have done this with some synthesizer keys. I know the peroxide won't melt the plastic, but leaving something in the sun where I live means it will be in 100+ degree heat.

Those look like some good results with the Starscream. What % peroxide did you use? How did you apply the peroxide? How long did you leave it in the sun? What was temperature outside?

Thanks!

News Credits: 3596 · by **Seibertron** » Sun Jul 29, 2012 9:49 pm

Lazerface wrote:^ Yeah. I have done this with some synthesizer keys. I know the peroxide won't melt the plastic, but leaving something in the sun where I live means it will be in 100+ degree heat.

Those look like some good results with the Starscream. What % peroxide did you use? How did you apply the peroxide? How long did you leave it in the sun? What was temperature outside?

Thanks!

I used the 3% H2O2 that you buy at retail stores or pharmacies such as Walmart, Target, Walgreens, or your local Dollar store. If possible, you take apart the Transformer toy to isolate the parts that you want to de-yellow (generally white pieces that have yellowed). I put the pieces in a glass jar, poor in the H2O2, put them on a shelf wear I have a lamp with a daylight ultraviolet bulb that you use for plants (so it gives off the actual rays of light that will reverse the process) and let it sit for 3 to 7 days.

Just be warned that you do this at your own risk. I've fixed dozens of Transformers with this, but I've had two casualties so far on expensive Transformers. G1 Action Master Elite Double Punch's dark pink parts that had yellowed became bleached and G1 Headmaster Junior Go Shooter's painted windows severely faded and became extremely spotted (presumably from the bubbles and leaving it out for too long in the sun when using a 28% solution instead of the 3%). Those were some expensive casualties, but I won't let it stop me because once you've "fixed" one it's a very proud sense of accomplishment that you were able to reverse this process.

Live and learn ...

News Credits: 60 · by **fenrir72** » Sun Jul 29, 2012 10:07 pm

@ Ryan

Whats this "Clarifier"?

News Credits: 3596 · by **Seibertron** » Sun Jul 29, 2012 10:25 pm

fenrir72 wrote:@ Ryan

Whats this "Clarifier"?

This is the stuff El Duque recommended I try. It's 28% H2O2. Very powerful (and potentially dangerous) stuff. Make sure you are wearing disposable gloves and protective eye wear. You do not want to screw around with these chemicals. You should be able to find this product or something similar at your local pool supply store.

http://www.poolsupplyforless.com/22851bio.html

It cuts down the reversal process from a fews days to a week to an hour or so.

The company that makes the BioGuard SoftSwim C Clarifier has a store locator where you can find their products if you want this exact one: http://www.bioguard.com/Store_Locator