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Nekoman wrote:Group of dudes A says Hasbro's working conditions are inhumane!
Group of dudes B says Hasbro's working conditions are perfectly fine, the allegations are false.
I'm not going to say who's telling the truth here, but I believe you can chose where you work in China. Even then, if they're willing to work in poor conditions, and are, they probably need that money they earn.
After an unannounced, nine hour inspection, both Hasbro and the I.C.T.I. determined the facility met "Hasbro's rigorous requirements."
JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:I'll be blunt as always with you guys: if any of you are thinking about giving up the hobby or boycotting it altogether, you may as well throw out every single thing that was fabricated in China. Every, single, thing. And trust me that'll be quite a lot to throw out.
In a sense it's our own damn fault for being such big consumers. Large demand will make companies look for cheaper places to produce, and those places will cut corners wherever possible, no matter the consequence. And it will always be this way no matter where the companies will settle next.
Nekoman wrote:JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:I'll be blunt as always with you guys: if any of you are thinking about giving up the hobby or boycotting it altogether, you may as well throw out every single thing that was fabricated in China. Every, single, thing. And trust me that'll be quite a lot to throw out.
In a sense it's our own damn fault for being such big consumers. Large demand will make companies look for cheaper places to produce, and those places will cut corners wherever possible, no matter the consequence. And it will always be this way no matter where the companies will settle next.
This is an intelligent thought more should ponder.
What surprises me is how many people are acting like this is something new. Everyone makes **** in China, not just Hasbro. Also, China in general isn't known for their good human rights. This has been apparent for... forever.
You could stop buying from Hasbro, but Mattel's no different. Jazwares or whatever their name is either, or Bandai, or any other toy company.
Life sucks. In some places more so than others. You really can't blame Hasbro for **** like this cause you know it happens no matter who you buy from.
Ultimately it's up to the Chinese to fix their own problems.
Nekoman wrote:JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:I'll be blunt as always with you guys: if any of you are thinking about giving up the hobby or boycotting it altogether, you may as well throw out every single thing that was fabricated in China. Every, single, thing. And trust me that'll be quite a lot to throw out.
In a sense it's our own damn fault for being such big consumers. Large demand will make companies look for cheaper places to produce, and those places will cut corners wherever possible, no matter the consequence. And it will always be this way no matter where the companies will settle next.
This is an intelligent thought more should ponder.
What surprises me is how many people are acting like this is something new. Everyone makes **** in China, not just Hasbro. Also, China in general isn't known for their good human rights. This has been apparent for... forever.
You could stop buying from Hasbro, but Mattel's no different. Jazwares or whatever their name is either, or Bandai, or any other toy company.
Life sucks. In some places more so than others. You really can't blame Hasbro for **** like this cause you know it happens no matter who you buy from.
Ultimately it's up to the Chinese to fix their own problems.
Deszaras1979 wrote:Apple says if the ipad were produced in America it would be unaffordable, this is BS, yeah it would cost more, but they would have to pay their workers a decent wage and that is not bad, let's look at the logistics of this, Apple moves manufacturing to America, hires x amount of people to produce the ipad, prices of the ipad goes up, however; if wages for the production of ipad are raised to coincide with increase in retail price, let's say the ipad doubles it's retail price to 1000.00 for a base model, the linemen are making 15 to 20 an hour working 40 to 50 hours a week, at 15 an hour times 40 hours a week times 4 weeks a month, thats $2400 a month, American workers could afford a base model ipad and where I live, still be able to pay there bills and have money left over, instead companies send jobs over seas, americans lose jobs, income, etc, chinese people are paid pennies on the dollar, inferior products are made and everyone loses out in the end. Do you think a chinese worker could afford a base model ipad now? Apple pockets all the money, the workers get shiite, and we get crappy products. I know my economics are flawed in the above example, so don't crucify me on it, but this profit before people mentality is why we are in a recession/depression depending on where you live.
Jeep! wrote:Why do I imagine Dead Metal sounding exactly like Arnie?
Intah-wib-buls?
Blurrz wrote:10/10
Leave it to Dead Metal to have the word 'Pronz' in his signature.
Dead Metal wrote:Deszaras1979 wrote:Apple says if the ipad were produced in America it would be unaffordable, this is BS, yeah it would cost more, but they would have to pay their workers a decent wage and that is not bad, let's look at the logistics of this, Apple moves manufacturing to America, hires x amount of people to produce the ipad, prices of the ipad goes up, however; if wages for the production of ipad are raised to coincide with increase in retail price, let's say the ipad doubles it's retail price to 1000.00 for a base model, the linemen are making 15 to 20 an hour working 40 to 50 hours a week, at 15 an hour times 40 hours a week times 4 weeks a month, thats $2400 a month, American workers could afford a base model ipad and where I live, still be able to pay there bills and have money left over, instead companies send jobs over seas, americans lose jobs, income, etc, chinese people are paid pennies on the dollar, inferior products are made and everyone loses out in the end. Do you think a chinese worker could afford a base model ipad now? Apple pockets all the money, the workers get shiite, and we get crappy products. I know my economics are flawed in the above example, so don't crucify me on it, but this profit before people mentality is why we are in a recession/depression depending on where you live.
Do you know what the word profit means?
It means the money that is left after all the investments have been earned back, including wages.
If the retail price goes up due to Apple having to pay higher wages, guess what would happen if they increased their wages even further. You guessed it the iPAd would be even more expensive.
Companies don't get the money to pay their workers from thin air, they have to earn it first.
If someone used your example we would have an even higher inflation than now.
Deszaras1979 wrote:Dead Metal wrote:Deszaras1979 wrote:Apple says if the ipad were produced in America it would be unaffordable, this is BS, yeah it would cost more, but they would have to pay their workers a decent wage and that is not bad, let's look at the logistics of this, Apple moves manufacturing to America, hires x amount of people to produce the ipad, prices of the ipad goes up, however; if wages for the production of ipad are raised to coincide with increase in retail price, let's say the ipad doubles it's retail price to 1000.00 for a base model, the linemen are making 15 to 20 an hour working 40 to 50 hours a week, at 15 an hour times 40 hours a week times 4 weeks a month, thats $2400 a month, American workers could afford a base model ipad and where I live, still be able to pay there bills and have money left over, instead companies send jobs over seas, americans lose jobs, income, etc, chinese people are paid pennies on the dollar, inferior products are made and everyone loses out in the end. Do you think a chinese worker could afford a base model ipad now? Apple pockets all the money, the workers get shiite, and we get crappy products. I know my economics are flawed in the above example, so don't crucify me on it, but this profit before people mentality is why we are in a recession/depression depending on where you live.
Do you know what the word profit means?
It means the money that is left after all the investments have been earned back, including wages.
If the retail price goes up due to Apple having to pay higher wages, guess what would happen if they increased their wages even further. You guessed it the iPAd would be even more expensive.
Companies don't get the money to pay their workers from thin air, they have to earn it first.
If someone used your example we would have an even higher inflation than now.
For one, I already said my economics were flawed, I am not a professor, and yes, I know what profit is, companies were doing just fine making a profit and employing people at a decent wage when Clinton was president, anyone who says different knows crap about politics nay reality, the only reason so much is manufactured overseas is so companies can make their bottom line look better for stockholders, you think they really care about delivering a product to you at a reasonable price? NO. Just what kind of job do you hold? I am not a flaming liberal, but neither am I a narrow minded conservative. There are many companies that could move jobs back over here and make money, they just refuse to. We all know companies don't get capital from thin air, they get it from the taxpayers in the form of bailouts, slush funds, etc. What is your economic theory, pay everyone that works on a production line two cents an hour so only the elite and rich can afford what someone else had to sweat and possibly bleed to produce? And yes if a company is only producing in a third world country, they are not investing crap back into the business. You do realize corporate profits are at an all time high, yet there are few and far between jobs and wages have been stagnant for the last 15 years. In fact wages have gone down in some cases due to some factories laying off permanent employees, only to bring them back through a temp service at a reduced wage.
Jeep! wrote:Why do I imagine Dead Metal sounding exactly like Arnie?
Intah-wib-buls?
Blurrz wrote:10/10
Leave it to Dead Metal to have the word 'Pronz' in his signature.
Dead Metal wrote:Deszaras1979 wrote:Dead Metal wrote:Deszaras1979 wrote:Apple says if the ipad were produced in America it would be unaffordable, this is BS, yeah it would cost more, but they would have to pay their workers a decent wage and that is not bad, let's look at the logistics of this, Apple moves manufacturing to America, hires x amount of people to produce the ipad, prices of the ipad goes up, however; if wages for the production of ipad are raised to coincide with increase in retail price, let's say the ipad doubles it's retail price to 1000.00 for a base model, the linemen are making 15 to 20 an hour working 40 to 50 hours a week, at 15 an hour times 40 hours a week times 4 weeks a month, thats $2400 a month, American workers could afford a base model ipad and where I live, still be able to pay there bills and have money left over, instead companies send jobs over seas, americans lose jobs, income, etc, chinese people are paid pennies on the dollar, inferior products are made and everyone loses out in the end. Do you think a chinese worker could afford a base model ipad now? Apple pockets all the money, the workers get shiite, and we get crappy products. I know my economics are flawed in the above example, so don't crucify me on it, but this profit before people mentality is why we are in a recession/depression depending on where you live.
Do you know what the word profit means?
It means the money that is left after all the investments have been earned back, including wages.
If the retail price goes up due to Apple having to pay higher wages, guess what would happen if they increased their wages even further. You guessed it the iPAd would be even more expensive.
Companies don't get the money to pay their workers from thin air, they have to earn it first.
If someone used your example we would have an even higher inflation than now.
For one, I already said my economics were flawed, I am not a professor, and yes, I know what profit is, companies were doing just fine making a profit and employing people at a decent wage when Clinton was president, anyone who says different knows crap about politics nay reality, the only reason so much is manufactured overseas is so companies can make their bottom line look better for stockholders, you think they really care about delivering a product to you at a reasonable price? NO. Just what kind of job do you hold? I am not a flaming liberal, but neither am I a narrow minded conservative. There are many companies that could move jobs back over here and make money, they just refuse to. We all know companies don't get capital from thin air, they get it from the taxpayers in the form of bailouts, slush funds, etc. What is your economic theory, pay everyone that works on a production line two cents an hour so only the elite and rich can afford what someone else had to sweat and possibly bleed to produce? And yes if a company is only producing in a third world country, they are not investing crap back into the business. You do realize corporate profits are at an all time high, yet there are few and far between jobs and wages have been stagnant for the last 15 years. In fact wages have gone down in some cases due to some factories laying off permanent employees, only to bring them back through a temp service at a reduced wage.
I'm a student and economics is a part of my subject.
I never said that companies weren't doing fine during Clinton, I also never said that they cared about delivering a quality product.
I simply told you have flawed your "example" was, also, if you knew it was flawed, then why the hell did you post it as an example in the first place?
They are companies and care about their bottom line, that and growing further, that is all companies care about. And the cheaper they can produce and sell their product, the more money they can make since more people can afford it and are more willing to buy it.
They are investing money in their businesses, they want to grow and reach more customers, in business terms increasing your capital and company size is investing in the business.
Also you need to stop blaming companies for everything, only large and important companies that employ a whole lot of people get bailouts so that they can keep as much of their work force as possible. It's our every fault for wanting everything cheaper than it should be and not thinking in long-term investments anymore. We want the best now, for cheap, and we want to replace it as soon as the never "better" version comes along.
We're currently living in an age of consumption, extreme consumption what used to be a long-term investment and was bought to last as long as possible, has become a cheap fashion accessory to be replaced once it's gone out of fashion.
Companies have tasted the "high-life", as in they earn more than ever due to the general public buying and buying and buying and buying, if everything went back to normal, we would take greater care of the money we spent and would keep our ipads longer, instead of getting rid of them once the new model comes out. Companies would earn less than now, which they just cannot accept anymore.
Deszaras1979 wrote:The flaw in your example is that as companies hire people at reduced wages, outsource jobs overseas, the cost of living has gone up and disposable income among the poor and middle class is non-existent. Thus in the long run the poor and middle class in America will be living day to day while only the wealthy can afford anything not considered an essential to survive in the world today.
Our economy is surviving on borrowed income, the govt. is in debt to other countries, a lot of the people are in debt to the credit card companies or banks, and there are no good jobs available, working at McDonald's doesn't cut it.
I am glad you are a student, it is always good to further your education. However, it sounds to me like all your knowledge of the workforce comes from a book, I have been working since the mid nineties and things have never been as bad as they are now, I do not just blame the companies, our corrupt federal officials and the banks have to assume a large amount of responsibilty as well, btw, I have an AS in computer programming, I graduated with a 3.97 gpa in 2010, and am currently going for an AS in networking and servicing, I finished my first semester with straight A's. Jobs are few and far between in either field right now in my area, which is why I plan to move when I finish. You need to look beyond the books though, where I live used to be a mecca for furniture manufacturing but more and more plants are closing everyday, I know people who have worked at places for 15 years or more and are now having to struggle because their job was outsourced or they were replaced by temp workers who make way less than their full-time counterparts. I still stand by my opinion that profit over people will be the downfall of the whole damn economic system. There is no equilibrium right now.
And it's not getting any better. I am very proud of my book knowledge, but the real world is a different place. p.s. I have not taken an economics class, though I did take an accounting class. Your example about earning back your investment is good if your talking about an upstart or a small business, but these companies that pay their CEOs 100 mil plus a year?
Jeep! wrote:Why do I imagine Dead Metal sounding exactly like Arnie?
Intah-wib-buls?
Blurrz wrote:10/10
Leave it to Dead Metal to have the word 'Pronz' in his signature.
Dead Metal wrote:And all this will stay as is, unless the Occupy Wall Street movement is heard and gets their way. Which I hope it will.
Shadowman wrote:I will put forth the theory that it was the internet itself trying to punch him in the face.
5150 Cruiser wrote:Dead Metal wrote:And all this will stay as is, unless the Occupy Wall Street movement is heard and gets their way. Which I hope it will.
The "Occupy" movement is a bunch of garbage. A bunch of self righious people who think the world is owed to them. Its steady loosing steam as well as public support and I for one, and thankfull.
Jeep! wrote:Why do I imagine Dead Metal sounding exactly like Arnie?
Intah-wib-buls?
Blurrz wrote:10/10
Leave it to Dead Metal to have the word 'Pronz' in his signature.
Dead Metal wrote:5150 Cruiser wrote:Dead Metal wrote:And all this will stay as is, unless the Occupy Wall Street movement is heard and gets their way. Which I hope it will.
The "Occupy" movement is a bunch of garbage. A bunch of self righious people who think the world is owed to them. Its steady loosing steam as well as public support and I for one, and thankfull.
Why, what's wrong with what they say?
Dead Metal wrote:5150 Cruiser wrote:Dead Metal wrote:And all this will stay as is, unless the Occupy Wall Street movement is heard and gets their way. Which I hope it will.
The "Occupy" movement is a bunch of garbage. A bunch of self righious people who think the world is owed to them. Its steady loosing steam as well as public support and I for one, and thankfull.
Why, what's wrong with what they say?
Autobot032 wrote:Hmm. The Occupy issue is a mixed bag for me. On the one hand, what they're saying and fighting for is right. (At least in my mind.) However, their actions have done nothing but cost money and time and injury.
There are better ways to rage against the machine, this is not one of them.
Shadowman wrote:I will put forth the theory that it was the internet itself trying to punch him in the face.
Dead Metal wrote:5150 Cruiser wrote:Dead Metal wrote:And all this will stay as is, unless the Occupy Wall Street movement is heard and gets their way. Which I hope it will.
The "Occupy" movement is a bunch of garbage. A bunch of self righious people who think the world is owed to them. Its steady loosing steam as well as public support and I for one, and thankfull.
Why, what's wrong with what they say?
Court Jester wrote:To clarify without political debate...
The occupy movement was initially about bringing to light the homelessness caused by foreclosures of properties held by banks connected to wall street exchange firms. These toxic loans were wagered and traded against other commodities, were the cause of the need for bailouts, hence the last resort effort to bring to light (in the media, to the public) the juxtaposition of people who risked and lost yet still got paid and bailed out by the government to the people who really have no other course of action due to the recent decline of jobs being shipped to cheaper labor (Indian customer support call centers, Asian sweat shops, et al). Everything is connected internationally. I would go on, but this is something I've been following passionately, hence would not be in the best interest of the thread.
Just one other thing... to the person that said superpowers no longer want to war with each other; please take a deep breath, get something warm to drink, and reconsider that position with just a bit more analytic regard.
Zombie Starscream wrote: After reading this article at the beginning of this thread, I went and looked at all four of the Takara Masterpiece Transformers that I own.
And they were all made in China. And that made me sad. I'd hate to think of the toys that I have being made in horrid conditions. I'd rather know that they were made by employees that were well treated and given good wages. I hope that is the case, but I'm not so sure now.![]()
Zombie Starscream wrote:I'm willing to put up with a price increase if it comes from that product being made in the US. It means that someone is being paid a living wage, can eat well and doesn't have so little money he is forced to live in a dump. Yes, it would hurt my wallet a little, but dammit it's worth it.
Shadowman wrote:I will put forth the theory that it was the internet itself trying to punch him in the face.
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