The Energon Pub

Here's a idea that suddenly hit me after drinking a couple of beers. Why not have classes that represent subgroups?

It would eliminate the need to have subgroups like for instance Headmasters as a altmode group. It enables us to pick pretty much any altmode for any subgroup. The more we upgrade the class, the more efficient the subgroup special abilities become.

Here's some example that I've thought of:

- Actionmaster: These bots/cons gain advantages to strength, endurance and speed. They would be able to choose a altmode. As a bonus they could get a "charge" tactic.

- Sparkabot/Firecon: Greater resistance against firebased attack. They'd also do additional heatdamage to their own attacks. Or alternately, they could get a "flamethrower" special attack.

- Combiner: You'd need five or six guys like this. This, the higher the class level, the more efficient the gestalt will be.

- Targetmaster: Similar to the altmode that was outlined by OS. Although this bot wouldn't be able pick any weapons outside of their nebulon partner. This class would become more efficient by dumping some extra XP into firepower and skill. It would efficiently do damage like the Assault class.

- Triplechangers: Choose two altmodes. The higher the classlevel, the use is made of both alternating between both modes.

- Transmetal: A Maximal/Predacon exclusive, this class would provide certain powerups and specials. But would be more expensive then a regular BW TF.

We could potentially make all these classes more expensive then the standard current ones.


Any thoughts on this?

you need to drink morw often!
Seriously, those are some great thoughts. I'm just wondering if coding would be the primary red light on that project.

Stormwolf wrote:
- Actionmaster: These bots/cons gain advantages to strength, endurance and speed. They would be able to choose a altmode. As a bonus they could get a "charge" tactic.

Actionmasters don't transform, so why need an alt mode? Though I like the bon us to stats as a make-up for not having tactics, but maybe just to one stat that you choose because one tactic =/= 3 stats.

Daneki wrote:

Stormwolf wrote:
- Actionmaster: These bots/cons gain advantages to strength, endurance and speed. They would be able to choose a altmode. As a bonus they could get a "charge" tactic.

Actionmasters don't transform, so why need an alt mode? Though I like the bon us to stats as a make-up for not having tactics, but maybe just to one stat that you choose because one tactic =/= 3 stats.

Typo, that should have been "They wouldn't be able to choose a altmode.".

This is a really great idea assuming OS could get the code to dance like that. Personally it would make Action Masters even more viable as a building strategy. Plus it would fix it so the alt. mode pics could be used by anybody without the special tactics making or breaking the deal. There would be no Alt. pics stuck exclusively with the special-tactic classes and inversely those looking to make a *master would have the entire alt. list within their faction to choose from. And that is just the tip of the iceberg I imagine.

It was already recommended to OS that Headmasters and Targetmasters be tied to robot modes rather than alt modes, but AFAIK he's stuck with the original idea of having them be Alt modes.

It may possibly be because he wants to stick with the 'Masters being able to transform and attack, which is a tactic, and doesn't want to or can't give the botmodes tactics.

You mentioned the forbidden word!
Combiners

Oh, also, if you guys are wanting to continue kicking this idea around, you should know that the Botmodes can't have bonuses that directly boost tactics. A bot mode can't boost Ram to 15 for example, it can only boost Strength which feeds Ram.

Caelus wrote:Oh, also, if you guys are wanting to continue kicking this idea around, you should know that the Botmodes can't have bonuses that directly boost tactics. A bot mode can't boost Ram to 15 for example, it can only boost Strength which feeds Ram.

Hmmm... How about this idea then?

Make a couple of new alt. classes and call them Action Master, but instead of giving them alt. pics and three tactics give them a null picture and 1-2 basic tactics. The null picture would be a blank picture that can take color attributes in the edit menu so that someone could choose a robot mode and customize it's color. It would be even better if you could fix it so that the Robot Mode would be displayed in place of a blank space on the team view pages, arena, and missions.

As for the 'basic' tactics give them abillities like strafe, fireblast, etc. Stuff that an Action Master could do on it's own without an alt. mode. An example of things that an Action Master probably could not do would be repair, avoid, bite, and so on. Here is where being able to replace the null picture with the bot mode pic. would come in handy again, since the bot mode could show up in the little box at the end of an attack statement instead of a blank.

Would any of this be feasable Caelus?

Caelus wrote:Oh, also, if you guys are wanting to continue kicking this idea around, you should know that the Botmodes can't have bonuses that directly boost tactics. A bot mode can't boost Ram to 15 for example, it can only boost Strength which feeds Ram.

Interesting, which leads to a new question could the the botmodes unlock tactics that in turn are boosted by the regular stats?

If that's so, then you for instance could have pretenders like this:

Pretender class:
- Unlocks a pretender shell that can function as a extra combatant during one or two rounds.
- Needs skill, endurance and intelligence as the feed stat.
- The pretender class robotmode boosts skill and intelligence to make the pretendershell do more damage and to stay active for more rounds.
- Endurance makes the pretendershell take more damage, but it is not included in the boost stat for let's say balance issues.

Would something like that work?

Knives wrote:Would any of this be feasable Caelus?

You just got quoted to the Planning Forum b/c that sounds like it would be a pretty simple addition to the game - AFAIK the tricky part would be having it not say "Banzaitron transforms into an Action Master..."

But it could be possible to say, add two alt-classes that have icons from the bot modes list (or preferably null icons as you suggested - that would allow players more aesthetic flexibility, though it would be more complicated for OS), with two different sets of tactics.

Tactic wise though, I was thinking AMs would have:

Charge - Something you could do in robot mode - I would say Ram as well but that just sounds wrong.
Repair - Again, something a good medic could do in robot mode
Avoid - Ditto
Absorb - You can be a bot the size of a tank just as easily as a bot that turns into a tank
Strafe/Anti-Air/Fireblast - Actionmasters would probably have some mounted weaponry besides what they carry
Targetmaster - A LOT of the G1 Actionmasters had targetmaster partners

So, maybe:

AM Class 1: Avoid/Targetmaster/Strafe
AM Class 2: Absorb/Repair/Charge



Not a lot of variety I know, but each faction already has a lot of Alt classes.

And Storm, I'm thinking Pretenders would best be reskinned from the Target or Headmasters. Essentially, the bot jumps out of his Shell, attacks in alt-form, and Pretender shell also attacks. Then plug the recognizable Pretender Shells under the Bulk-Class Robot Mode list, since that was what the shells did - provided more armor and endurance. The Pretender tactic could then be fed by Endurance, so upgrading the 'robot mode' would improve the damage dealt by the Pretender Shell when it attacks.

Pretender Alt Class might provide: Strafe/Pretender Shell/Ram.

Is that too far off from what you had in mind? Or would it be close enough?

Caelus wrote:
Is that too far off from what you had in mind? Or would it be close enough?

Potentially, the entire class concept could go in pretty much any direction. But my actual aim was to add a fourth tactic "the pretender shell" to a existing altmode.

But I guess we could better ask OS what can or can`t be done

V2 is gonna be real complicated.
And damn interesting!


I can pratically hear Tammy crying at the thought of all this.

As great as thi idea is, would it not be a little too late i nthe day for what sounds to me like a serious departure from how hmw has worked, and as such how it would be writern?


Id be estatic if it could be included, cuase it brings HMW closer to RPG style games which is something I have felt its needed for ever.

I like where these ideas are going, and it'd be great if some of them could actually be implemented. As a note to Stormwolf, though, I think I have a good idea why a couple of these might not be feasible:

Sparkabots/Firecons: To provide extra protection against particular classes of attacks, in this case heat-based, you'd first need those types of attacks to exist, and I don't think the weapons are designed to be that complicated. Bearing in mind, if you were going to have heat-based attacks, it wouldn't be fair to stop there and you'd need electric, acid, liquid, light, sound, radiation...

Gestalts: An idea that people have been clamouring for since year dot. But even if you could have four, five, or six mechs that could combine into a gestalt form, it wouldn't be much use, since without a major re-shake of the game, they wouldn't be allowed to go into the same battles together...

Triplechangers are already starting to see light, even though we can't play them yet, in the form of the Overcharge drones. I quite like the way they're implemented too, basically allowing tactic combinations that wouldn't easily gel otherwise (transform to tank mode and Ram, transform to jet mode and Strafe or Avoid).