>
shop.seibertron.com amazon.seibertron.com Facebook Twitter X YouTube Pinterest Instagram Myspace LinkedIn Patreon Podcast RSS
This page runs on affiliate links — your clicks may earn us a few Shanix. Want the full transmission? Roll out to our Affiliate Disclosure.

Requesting insight on 'gh' sound in pre English languages of British Isles (Homework matter).

Welcome to the General Discussion area where just about anything goes! This area is designed to discuss all matters and does not necessarily have to be Transformers related. Please keep topics relevant.

Requesting insight on 'gh' sound in pre English languages of British Isles (Homework matter).

Postby G1 Smoketreader » Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:02 am

Motto: "Continue building from within,attack your designated target,defend everyone."
Weapon: Double-Barreled, Armor-Piercing Particle Beam Cann...
Heya.

Was helping someone with English Homework the other day- the question came up as to why Dough and Tough are both spelled with 'gh' but are sounded differently.

I promised I'd try to find out.

My assumption is that they come from differing root languages but the sound was somehow grouped into the same spelling by the academics of the time, tho it occured to me that it's just as likely that they were originally pronounced the same but were changed over time with the evolution of topical dialects.

My guess is that perhaps Gaelic or Celtic play a role in the origins tho my education on these languages is severely stunted, and I realized I wasn't taught at all about Welsh in Australia where I grew up. Of course English also consists of Angle,Saxon and Jute, Norse/Nordic/Northern European Group of Languages (respectfully),Germanic, French...and plenty I don't even know have a seperate identity and history or have forgotten right now (again: Respectfully).

Is there anyone who can provide me with insights based on their own knowledge from their Pre-English native tongue(s)? I'm actually really curious now about the root, now... and there's a group of English Teachers also waiting to learn the result out of curiosity. (LOL)

Thanks to ALL.
"Everyone has a hobby.Even people who say they don't still have one under another name.If we're sick,injured, we still go to it and get down to see how it is.If it needs something, we bring it,make sure the attention is perfect.It exercises our care and protection and gives us back philosophies.It's a living thing to us,and is the most perfect way to teach a young person how to be towards a living thing. It's something that should never be taken away."
-my Wife
G1 Smoketreader
Headmaster Jr
Posts: 578
Joined: Sat Jul 24, 2010 3:54 am
Strength: 10
Intelligence: 8
Speed: 8
Endurance: 8
Rank: 10+
Courage: 9
Firepower: 9
Skill: 8

Re: Requesting insight on 'gh' sound in pre English languages of British Isles (Homework matter).

Postby Va'al » Tue Jun 12, 2012 4:08 am

Motto: "Till All Are Pun!"
I'm going to cheat (:P) and use my Uni access to the OED Online, which I recommend for any kind of etymological need!

Dough - Etymology: A Common Germanic n.: Old English dáh, genitive dáges, = Old Frisian deeg, Dutch deg, Old High German, Middle High German teic, German teig, Old Norse deig, (Swedish deg, Danish deig, dei), Gothic daigs < Old Germanic *daigoz, < verbal stem dig-, deig-, pre-Germanic *dhigh- to form of clay, to knead: compare Sanskrit dih- to besmear, Latin fig-, fingĕre; compare Greek τεῖχος wall.

Tough - Etymology: Old English tóh < *tǫnh < *tanh, Old Germanic *taŋχu-z; North Frisian toch, tuch. From an Old Germanic stem *taŋχ-, taŋg-, whence Old English ge-tęnge. Compare (with ending of -ja declension) Old Saxon *tâhi (Middle Low German tâ, tei, Low German taa, tage, tau, Dutch taai); Old High German zâhi (Middle Low German zâhe, zæhe, zæch, German zähe, zäh)

The pronunciation for tough seems to remain pretty much unvaried, and looking very close to present-day glottals in Dutch 'g' and Scots 'ch'. The switch to a softer sound appears as of the 17th century in Middle English.
As for dough, again it's arounf C17 that the sound changes to the almost invisible present-day pronunciation. Similar to 'way' and 'day', tough. There is still a U.S. and British regional version of 'duff', meaning backside, which relates back to 'dough'.
User avatar
Va'al
God Of Transformers
Posts: 17010
News Credits: 6188
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2011 12:00 pm
Location: Italy
Buy from Va'al on eBay

Re: Requesting insight on 'gh' sound in pre English languages of British Isles (Homework matter).

Postby Va'al » Tue Jun 12, 2012 7:28 am

Motto: "Till All Are Pun!"
As an afterthought, I would recommend the amazingly well written Cambridge Encyclopedia of English Language (2nd Edition) by David Crystal, and most of his other books, really.
User avatar
Va'al
God Of Transformers
Posts: 17010
News Credits: 6188
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2011 12:00 pm
Location: Italy
Buy from Va'al on eBay

Re: Requesting insight on 'gh' sound in pre English languages of British Isles (Homework matter).

Postby G1 Smoketreader » Wed Jun 13, 2012 8:02 am

Motto: "Continue building from within,attack your designated target,defend everyone."
Weapon: Double-Barreled, Armor-Piercing Particle Beam Cann...
That's phenomenal Va'al! Thank you very, very much! :grin:
"Everyone has a hobby.Even people who say they don't still have one under another name.If we're sick,injured, we still go to it and get down to see how it is.If it needs something, we bring it,make sure the attention is perfect.It exercises our care and protection and gives us back philosophies.It's a living thing to us,and is the most perfect way to teach a young person how to be towards a living thing. It's something that should never be taken away."
-my Wife
G1 Smoketreader
Headmaster Jr
Posts: 578
Joined: Sat Jul 24, 2010 3:54 am
Strength: 10
Intelligence: 8
Speed: 8
Endurance: 8
Rank: 10+
Courage: 9
Firepower: 9
Skill: 8

Re: Requesting insight on 'gh' sound in pre English languages of British Isles (Homework matter).

Postby Va'al » Wed Jun 13, 2012 8:26 am

Motto: "Till All Are Pun!"
A pleasure!

Nice to see my degree can be used somewhere.
(On a forum about giant robots and their plastic redition. But still!)
User avatar
Va'al
God Of Transformers
Posts: 17010
News Credits: 6188
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2011 12:00 pm
Location: Italy
Buy from Va'al on eBay


Return to General Discussion


[ Incoming message. Source unknown. ] No Signal - Please Stand By [ Click to attempt signal recovery... ]


Transformers and More @ The Seibertron Store

Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "Ghost Rider Wolverine WEAPONS VENGEANCE #1 Marvel Comics MAY238596 (CA) Logo"
Ghost Rider Wolver ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "DEADPOOL KILLS MARVEL UNIVERSE #1 Facsimile Marvel Comics 2024 ptg APR240569"
NEW!
DEADPOOL KILLS MAR ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "Ghost Rider Wolverine WEAPONS VENGEANCE #1 Marvel Comics MAY238597 (CA) Logo"
Ghost Rider Wolver ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "X-MEN #1 3D Edition Gatefold Marvel Comics 2025 0924PG802 Pan-Universal Galactic"
X-MEN #1 3D Editio ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "X-MEN LEGENDS #11 Marvel Comics 2022 NOV210886 (W) Simonson (A/CA) Simonson"
NEW!
X-MEN LEGENDS #11 ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "Ghost Rider Wolverine WEAPONS VENGEANCE #1 Marvel Comics JUN230943 (CA) Stegman"
Ghost Rider Wolver ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "Ghost Rider Wolverine WEAPONS VENGEANCE #1 Marvel Comics JUN230947 (CA) Perez"
Ghost Rider Wolver ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "X-MEN AGE OF REVELATION #0 Shadow Drop Variant Marvel Comics 2025 (CA) Ramos"
NEW!
X-MEN AGE OF REVEL ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "DEADPOOL #1 Facsimile Foil Marvel Comics 2024 ptg APR240894 (CA) McGuinness"
DEADPOOL #1 Facsim ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "Ghost Rider Wolverine WEAPONS VENGEANCE #1 var Marvel Comics JUN230944 Texeira"
Ghost Rider Wolver ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "WOLVERINE #28 Marvel Comics 2022 OCT220912 (CA) Yu (W) Percy (A) Ryp"
WOLVERINE #28 Marv ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "Deadpool Circle Chase #1 Facsimile 3D Marvel Comics 2024 ptg APR240892 Madureira"
Deadpool Circle Ch ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "X-FORCE #27 var Promo Marvel Comics 2022 FEB220949 (W) Percy (CA) Weaver (A)Gill"
X-FORCE #27 var Pr ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "Ghost Rider Wolverine WEAPONS VENGEANCE #1 Marvel Comics JUN230949 (CA) Kuder"
Ghost Rider Wolver ...
These are affiliate links. We may earn a commission.
Details subject to change. See listing for latest price and availability.

Featured Products on Amazon.com

Buy "Transformers MPM04 Optimus Prime" on AMAZON
Buy "Transformers: Generations Power of The Primes Legends Class Autobot Outback" on AMAZON
Buy "Transformers Studio Series 09 Voyager Class Movie 2 Thundercracker" on AMAZON
Buy "Transformers: Generations Power of The Primes Megatronus Prime Master" on AMAZON
Buy "Transformers Studio Series 10 Deluxe Class Movie 1 Autobot Jazz" on AMAZON
Buy "Transformers: Bumblebee -- Energon Igniters Nitro Series Optimus Prime" on AMAZON
Buy "Transformers: Generations Power of The Primes Evolution Optimal Optimus" on AMAZON
Buy "Transformers Generations Power of the Primes Deluxe Class Autobot Novastar" on AMAZON
Buy "Transformers Generations Combiner Wars Voyager Class Sky Lynx" on AMAZON
Buy "Hasbro Transformers Generations Titans Return Soundwave and Soundblaster" on AMAZON
Buy "Transformers Generations Titans Return Legends Class Autobot Rewind" on AMAZON
Buy "Transformers: Generations Power of The Primes Micronus Prime Master" on AMAZON
These are affiliate links. We may earn a commission.
Details subject to change. See listing for latest price and availability.