The Energon Pub

In the movie, the special forces unit used small-arms Sabot-assisted anti-tank rounds to attack the Decepticons. These rounds used extreme heat (temperatures in excess of 6,000 degrees F) to damage them. They proved slightly effective, right?

So, if that's the case, then how is it that any of the Transformers could survive atmospheric reentry? During reentry, you're dealing with about 13,000 degrees F (that's hotter than the surface of the sun). How is it that they weren't burned up in the atmosphere, much less still be mobile afterward?

the robots are not in human mode when entering the earths atmosphear...they are in either thier vehicle mode (megatron, starscream) or thier cometary mode...

A Sabot is not a high heat round. It is a kinetic energy round used by tanks. Seemed like they made up some stuff when it came to this. As far as I know the cannons from the AC-130 is what destroyed Scorponok.

What about the hand launched ones?

In the movie, they said it was something about the HEAT that damaged them, not the kinetic energy. Sabot is not a round in itself. Sabot is the device surrounding the munition that prevents gases from escaping inside the launch mechanism, hence sabot assisted.

Im not sure which hand launched ones they were using, never heard of a hand launched sabot. The point of it is to travel very fast. I cant imagine someone launching that by hand. In the M1 tank its a depleted uranium rod that makes itself sharper as it penetrates the armor of a tank. High explosive and heat rounds are totally different. I really dont know what they meant when they said sabot rounds, did they have some kind of hand launcher? I thought they were referring to the AC130 or the A10 I need to watch it again and I will pay attention.

When they said "heat" they weren't referring to "heat," but to "H.E.A.T." rounds, meaning "High Explosive Anti-Tank."

H.E.A.T. rounds operate under the same premise as AT missiles meaning they explode and then inject molten metal (generally copper) into the fissure opened by the initial explosion.

Most tanks carry both HEAT/HEAP and sabot rounds. All AT missiles, whether vehicle mounted or man portable, are HEAT/HEAP (HEAP being High Explosive Armor Piercing).

yeah, I knew that they meant HE rounds but im not sure where the Sabot part came in. I dont remember them using it at all unless I missed something. I know it was mentioned though.

What they were doing was using a HEAT round, out of a larger barrel, with propellent gasses ment for a larger round. Meaning higher impact in a smaller area. Since, for some reason, they had a HEAT round with magnisium (sp?), it turned in to something like a tiny little cutting torch, melting right through the armour, with a high velocity, and a big bang.

what had the larger barrel? what is this weapon called? Ive never heard of it.

Since they said the grenade launchers were using sabot, it implies what ever they were using was smaller then the barrel of that weapon. But I've never heard of a sabot being used in a grenade launcher. Guns, cannons, tanks, but never grenade launchers.

yeah , I remember the grenade launcher now, when the guy was sliding on his back shooting at blackout I think. Guess they made something up because I dont see how it would be used in a handheld weapon.

Sabot aren't used just for Tanks. They can also be used for handheld weapons, mostly rifles (snipers for example).

maybe a rifle, im sure it is uncommon though because the advantage wouldnt be much better then a rifle round.

It does have an advantage. It allows a lighter weight round to travel with a higher muzzle velocity, then it would if it was fired from a gun it was originaly ment for.

Hell, some people use .22 sabots in shot guns, get all that power, behind a light round.

but what did this have to do with the movie? when were they using sabot rounds?

Did you even see the movie?

They made a whole deal about using sabot rounds on the plane ride home, and at the Hoover Dam.

this is how those rounds work and no it doesnt go over 6k pluss f it hits about 45-5000 and the tip of bullet has depleated uranium. basically this is how the round works it travels at such a speed that the kenetic energy on impact ignites the tip and basically heats to a super high temp as i stared b4 and burns threw about a 1/2-1 inch of metal plating. but while goiong threw the metal that it hits basically turns into liquid fire. this is how a armor piercing round kills it doesnt destroy anything really but it kills the cockpit crew pretty easy of a tank. cus it flys threw the metal shooting this liquid molten metal on them then u have a 50 cal bullet playing pinball inside lol.

Breeze wrote:In the movie, the special forces unit used small-arms Sabot-assisted anti-tank rounds to attack the Decepticons. These rounds used extreme heat (temperatures in excess of 6,000 degrees F) to damage them. They proved slightly effective, right?

So, if that's the case, then how is it that any of the Transformers could survive atmospheric reentry? During reentry, you're dealing with about 13,000 degrees F (that's hotter than the surface of the sun). How is it that they weren't burned up in the atmosphere, much less still be mobile afterward?

I hate it when Sci-Fi movies don't get their science part right. It makes the writers look like dumb asses. They contradict themselves several times when it comes to the Transformers capabilities and technology. I agree with your question WTF? How can they be so easily affected by our technology when they are capable of interstellar travel and they land by high velocity impact? I also noticed that freezing them is one way of keeping them under control like Megatron and BB but isn't space like super cold hence large balls of ice float around everywhere? How can this subdue them when they travel through super freezing conditions all the time? Oh well, I still loved the movie.

BACK TO THE ORIGINAL POST:

regardless of what sabot rounds actually do, it was implied that they used heat to damages the tf's, i really dont care what they do in reality, as for tfs being damaged by them and not heat generated by the entering the atmosphere, i found the movie guide to shed a little light on it all,

it says that the protoform comet forms they used to enter the atmosphere are capable of withstanding higher heat and cold than normal, due to the raw elements still intact, i also believe the shape would have alot to do with, i think in protoform they are more dense and stronger against the elements, its like getting a flat peice of all foil and punching holes in it, when you screw it up into a tight little ball it alot harder to put holes through it,

anyway thats how i make sense of it my mind, even if it dont make sense

I would solve that matter in the sequel in that way: they come from an orbiting spaceship, they reentry with a simply one use shell, or even a kind of one use energetic shell...

Lord_Megatron wrote:I also noticed that freezing them is one way of keeping them under control like Megatron and BB but isn't space like super cold...

Dang you! I wanted to make the point about space! But yeah, the bottom line is that there's no real science or science fiction going on here. At the beginning of the film, the 'Cons can't be killed by anything, and by the end they're being knocked off left and right because the movie's almost over. Basic summer movie rules.

XeroSyphon wrote:Did you even see the movie?

They made a whole deal about using sabot rounds on the plane ride home, and at the Hoover Dam.

Yes I saw it , you keep bringing up shotguns and sniper rifles, what Im asking is when were these weapons used? I dont remember them shooting shotguns at the decepticons.

Breeze wrote:In the movie, the special forces unit used small-arms Sabot-assisted anti-tank rounds to attack the Decepticons. These rounds used extreme heat (temperatures in excess of 6,000 degrees F) to damage them. They proved slightly effective, right?

So, if that's the case, then how is it that any of the Transformers could survive atmospheric reentry? During reentry, you're dealing with about 13,000 degrees F (that's hotter than the surface of the sun). How is it that they weren't burned up in the atmosphere, much less still be mobile afterward?

Too bad Transformers aren't made out of a "plot-hole" resistant metal...

...


That is a good observation though... maybe the type of metal changes from Cybertronian (entry modes and protoforms) to Earth metal (trucks, cars etc. even in robot mode... though this would be a huge disadvantage, especially when dealing with Megatron who, in you look at it that way, would be made out of a much stronger metal)

Maybe the reentry mode is a "special" layer of armor that covers them when they entry a planet.

Breeze wrote:In the movie, the special forces unit used small-arms Sabot-assisted anti-tank rounds to attack the Decepticons. These rounds used extreme heat (temperatures in excess of 6,000 degrees F) to damage them. They proved slightly effective, right?

So, if that's the case, then how is it that any of the Transformers could survive atmospheric reentry? During reentry, you're dealing with about 13,000 degrees F (that's hotter than the surface of the sun). How is it that they weren't burned up in the atmosphere, much less still be mobile afterward?

Sabot rounds concentrate heat and kinetic energy into one area.

The heat from atmospheric entry friction is distributed over the entire surface.


Michael