The Energon Pub

Great Atlas wrote:creature are you in your 30's, do u live in your mother's basement, and have you never talked to a woman in real life?

Your being way too
It is just a movie and transformers aren't real and the designers should feel free to design them as they please with any explanation to how they work since they have the ability to do so

Awww, come on - I thought that we were beyond that reasoning (and personal attacks, for that matter) here. If discussion is pointless, just shut the whole forum down, turn the computer off and go work all day long.

Granted. It's still a very unsatisfying explanation, though. Especially since shields would be a huge waste of energy when a closed surface could do the same job.

Also, it can't really be explained in any sufficient way how the magical heat sabots got past those.

That's without the shadow of a doubt the biggest plothole indeed. I remember doing a mental doubletake when I read the atmospheric entry scene it in the script back then.

The movie's storyline really dug itself a lot more holes than necessary. Ironically enough, most of those could've been avoided being a little less "creative" with the changes.

I didn't think that it could happen, but I agree with you on this.

I never thought of that plot hole, very true.

But Insurgent said this on another thread:

Insurgent wrote:As for the armour thingy, perhaps because the extreme heat is not shaped like a bullet that is designed to pierce armour when flying through space means they don't get hurt.

Still, the Sabot rounds couldn't generate the heat of atmospheric entry. But at least that heat is spread over the entire protoform, a bullet is a precise focus, maybe that is a weakness the armour has.

The thing that alowed the protoforms to survive reentry were heat shields ove the survace of their reentry modes. They were basically in the form of dropships. Their internal systems and regular armor are not quite so heat resistant.

I was extremely disapointed when I saw the first pick of BumbleBee. Having seen the movie my opinion changed. The movie version of the characters are by far the most badass versions I have seen. I view G1 and the new movie as two completely different entities. I love the original characters. I love the new versions, for two very different reasons.

Creature SH wrote:Granted. It's still a very unsatisfying explanation, though. Especially since shields would be a huge waste of energy when a closed surface could do the same job.

Also, it can't really be explained in any sufficient way how the magical heat sabots got past those.

A force field would allow for greater range of motion, for one. And given the fact their alt modes are going to have to pass themselves off as whatever disguise they're taking on... well, someone's going to notice if a Camaro's hood is made up of armor plating. And given the fact that the nanotech transformation doesn't drain their energy levels, I can't imagine the shielding would be much of a concern in terms of energy usage.

I honestly have no idea why the screenwriters decided to confuse sabots with high heat, though. Sabots are based on kinetic energy, not "high heat", and probably would have made a lot more sense. Maybe, at some point, someone decided that most people wouldn't remember high school physics and rememeber what kinetic energy WAS, and just used heat instead. I dunno.

WOW, so many scientific discussions here. Any robotic students or professors here?

WOW, so many scientific discussions here. Any robotic students or professors here?

Most of the "science" is BS. The TFs are obviously much more advanced so the "Armour plating" they use would be a lot lighter and less noticable. The movie TFs were shown as being very agile so it's likely they weigh no more than the vehicles they turn into.

After seeing the movie, I can most certainly say that not only were the redesigns not necessary, they were a hindrence. I couldn't figure out what was going on half the time. Seing a Citreonformer advert when I got home(the latest which is IMO the worst and needs to be broken up a bit more) it really did hit me how poor a job they did with the design aesthetic.

Really, it would have pleased everyone if they looked like bulked out Citreon Bots or higher detail versions of Michael Smith's Nissan Sunstreaker, maybe with a little of the current aesthetic thrown in for good measure(or only using it for complicated TFs like, say, Bludgeon instead of using a pretender shell). People claim otherwise now, but I see absolutely no evidence that more than a tiny minority thought this way before the movie hype machine was started up.

Many of the Alternators won't work for the movie. Possibly much less than G1 can.

A few Examples:

***Corvette's robot mode has practically non-functional legs.

***Wrangler Jeep's robot mode has a big empty hole under chest. His upper torso is a big empty shell fully exposed from beneath.

***Impreza/RX-8's robot feet are too big and bulky. No way you can put that into fast action sequences.

***XB/BB's robot chest is too bulky. Much bigger than a fem bot with size EE bumpers.

***Mustang's robot rear skirt is too girly, and very clumsy to put into action.

couldn't the armor the Autobots/Decepticons have be something along the lines of transparent aluminum? Or something similar to that metal.

Born Yesterday wrote:I was extremely disapointed when I saw the first pick of BumbleBee. Having seen the movie my opinion changed. The movie version of the characters are by far the most badass versions I have seen. I view G1 and the new movie as two completely different entities. I love the original characters. I love the new versions, for two very different reasons.

Perfectly put. I'm seeing the new movie as a completely different facet of the Transformers.

I was at first shocked by the complexity of the new designs, and I didn't liked them, but when I saw the movie I saw that they worked better in action scenes. I read the story of how every little part inside of the alt modes was modelled and used in the transformation. Even special software was developed at ILM to manage the moving of those millions of parts. In the end, i liked the new designs, even when at the first time i watched the movie I had a hard time telling who was who. I had to watch it a second time and i noticed the distinctive looks of each Transformer.

Something many people is forgetting is that in the original alt modes, in many cases limbs of the robot used space inside what it should be the passengers place, so many original alt modes weren't even tripulable for humans. Movie's alt modes fix this.

Megatron looked way more like Galvatron, in my opinion. But a gun Megatron would have been smaller than Frenzy. An arm cannon would have made him more recognizable, IMHO.

And yes I loved G1, but I like a lot this new Transformers universe. And yes definitely is not the G1 universe.

Err, those are specific to the toys. It wouldn't matter much on a higher detail big budget CGI model where they could clean those up(but still retain the overall look).

Auto Bot wrote:Many of the Alternators won't work for the movie. Possibly much less than G1 can.

A few Examples:

***Corvette's robot mode has practically non-functional legs.

***Wrangler Jeep's robot mode has a big empty hole under chest. His upper torso is a big empty shell fully exposed from beneath.

***Impreza/RX-8's robot feet are too big and bulky. No way you can put that into fast action sequences.

***XB/BB's robot chest is too bulky. Much bigger than a fem bot with size EE bumpers.

***Mustang's robot rear skirt is too girly, and very clumsy to put into action.

Cleaning them up will be tantamount to redesigning them.

Just like G1, redesigned into Movie series. Only to a greater extent.

Blackout wrote:
Welcome to my main issue with the movie. How is it their protoforms can endure heat greater than the sun's surface and massive deceleration (in hitting the Earth's surface) yet get damaged by Sabot rounds?

Thanks for the name of those rounds, Creature. It was on the tip of my tongue.

This (slap-in-the-face-obvious) realization also further solidifies the appearance of the movie bots as being "weak" and flimsy inside, due to poor and excessive redesign.

In a pinched turd shape ball... plated across the surface and resistant to the ravages of atmospheric descent. (Shield generator or not.)

In robot mode with dingly dangly shards hanging off a pile of twist-tie guts... able to be offed by rocket launchers, or possibly an icecream cone thrown with good aim to pierce their heart. (Shield generator or not.)

Great Atlas
Post Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 5:15 pm

creature are you in your 30's, do u live in your mother's basement, and have you never talked to a woman in real life?

Your being way too Nerd
It is just a movie and transformers aren't real and the designers should feel free to design them as they please with any explanation to how they work since they have the ability to do so

Holy trolly.

Maybe they should have just landed in the Ark, instead of entering Earth in goofball form.

Auto Bot wrote:Maybe they should have just landed in the Ark, instead of entering Earth in goofball form.

Goofball form indeed. lol :))
I like that.

Well, the Ark was ditched. Or according to... to them...
Why do alien robots from outer space even NEED ships?

>___<

Kill me now.
Kill me swiftly.

Riotflea wrote:

Auto Bot wrote:Maybe they should have just landed in the Ark, instead of entering Earth in goofball form.

Goofball form indeed. lol :))
I like that.

Well, the Ark was ditched. Or according to... to them...
Why do alien robots from outer space even NEED ships?

>___<

Kill me now.
Kill me swiftly.

And the answer is....

Unicron!

No, i'm just kidding.

The answer is...

1. to protect themselves from the searing heat of entry into a planet's atmostphere coming from outer space.

2. to conserve their own energy.

3. to protect themselves from sub-zero freezing temperature of empty space.

4. to protect themselves from cosmic dust, meteors, solar radiation, solar wind, alpha rays.

5. to protect themselves from sublimation, a process wherein some elements or compounds converts directly from solid to gaseous state, in a pressure-less environment, and then disappears into the empty void.

6. to travel much faster than what their own jet pack or rocket shoes can provide; and in the case of non-flying Autobots, to enable them to travel thru space.

7. to be able to have the group travel in unison; rather than risking one or two or a few comrades unintentionally drifting away into a different course. It's the outer space, man. A slight tag or momentum can push you millions of miles apart in the course of light-years of travel.

8. to be able to bring equipments, extra weapons, and other necessary accessories along the trip.

9. to get enough boost to be able to escape from gravitational pull of the planet of origin.

10. to be able to rest, plan strategies, prepare weapons for battle, communicate with each other, during the course of the trip, before arriving directly into a possible battle scene.

Hmmm... Maybe 10 reasons are still not good enough for Bay.

What do you think?

Well, the reason why they didn't have a ship when they come to Earth is that it would draw too much attention. More than likely the Ark was kept out in a high orbit, proboably behind the moon or something, where it couldn't be detected. From what I understand, the prequel book does indeed give the Autobots a ship for interstellar travel. They only used their re-entry modes to get down to the planet incognito.