The Energon Pub

[1984forever]

Fact. You don't know how old Tailgate was when he fell in the hole.

Some Transformers have exhibited mature personality traits minutes after being created. Some like G1 Hot Rod act like teenagers. Others act like children, such as G1 Wheelie. It would have been seen as inappropriate if Wheelie replaced Springer as Arcee's "love" interest.

Tailgate has a childlike personality. I find it inappropriate for him to be in relationships with Transformers that are depicted as older and more mature.

Parents like myself may become concerned that their children don't fully understand metaphors. That misunderstanding could be bad for Hasbro during the holiday season.

[D-Maximal_Primal]

Fact. You don't know how old Tailgate was when he fell in the hole.

Some Transformers have exhibited mature personality traits minutes after being created. Some like G1 Hot Rod act like teenagers. Others act like children, such as G1 Wheelie. It would have been seen as inappropriate if Wheelie replaced Springer as Arcee's "love" interest.

Tailgate has a childlike personality. I find it inappropriate for him to be in relationships with Transformers that are depicted as older and more mature.

Parents like myself may become concerned that their children don't fully understand metaphors. That misunderstanding could be bad for Hasbro during the holiday season.

Issue 21: Tailgate was only a few weeks old when he fell down in the whole. read.

Fact: That was 6 million years ago. He is very old. Does it matter that he was underground for the entire time? Yeah, hence why he needs to learn everything. And he is maturing. He is a hero for his skills he learned. He is not the child you keep playing him off to be. He may be immature, but he is not a child.

And do you think children could see this as bad? To them, it seems as though Tailgate is finding a best friend in Cyclonus as the new kid in school (I have an 8 year old cousin who reads the comics too: those were his exact words) You really just need to stop trying to make a pediphillic situation out of this. It is a principle of competing love interests and jealousy, not pedophiles. Getaway may be trying to take Tailgate, but it is not like he is taking a minor

[ZeroWolf]

Okay I should of worded it better, he's from the same age of cybertron as cyclonus. I.e. nova prime era. Though I note you didn't say anything about him being older then getaway.

Also don't play the parent card, (I'm a dad of two myself as not everyone will see the same and in fact, the general populace won't care a about two genderless robots in a relationship, I am willing to also state you're in the minority of the readers to have this issue with...This. ...issue heh, should of worded that better.

Also if hasbro didn't like this content they would of stopped this long ago. I would have no problem with my kids reading this. Any darker themes I could talk to them about...plus I seriously doubt that any one will read this and immediately translate it as being okay for a child to be with an adult.

If you don't like the concept of highly intelligent humanoid bipedal machines forming their relationships free from gender barriers or even class barriers then just say so. Don't stretch things that really aren't an issue to justify yourself

[D-Maximal_Primal]

Okay I should of worded it better, he's from the same age of cybertron as cyclonus. I.e. nova prime era. Though I note you didn't say anything about him being older then getaway.

Also don't play the parent card, (I'm a dad of two myself as not everyone will see the same and in fact, the general populace won't care a about two genderless robots in a relationship, I am willing to also state you're in the minority of the readers to have this issue with...This. ...issue heh, should of worded that better.

Also if hasbro didn't like this content they would of stopped this long ago. I would have no problem with my kids reading this. Any darker themes I could talk to them about...plus I seriously doubt that any one will read this and immediately translate it as being okay for a child to be with an adult.

If you don't like the concept of highly intelligent humanoid bipedal machines forming their relationships free from gender barriers or even class barriers then just say so. Don't stretch things that really aren't an issue to justify yourself

To piggyback onto this: how about those issues where the DJD brutally murder good and bad guys alike, tearing out their brains and making them eat them, cutting off peoples heads, ripping out organs after they are dead? THOSE are things that should trouble people more

[ZeroWolf]

That is an interesting point. It seems that intense robot violence is fine but when you bring up relationships that's when everything goes up in flames. It's double standards, but then it's nothing new in western society, violence gets less a hard time then anything to do with sex or sometimes anything to do with it.

[1984forever]

Tailgate stopped developing mentally a few weeks after creation due to the accident. He awoke after 6 million years with only a few weeks worth of life experience. He is a baby. He sees himself as a baby.

Cyclonus has been depicted as an older, experienced warrior in TF fiction. G1 Cyclonus spoke in a gravelly male voice. This is the version most people are familiar with.

Cyclonus, who has been seen for decades as a rough, mature male figure now envisions himself as a woman. Many people would assume that Cyclonus is gay and that he wants to be in a relationship with a young boy, Tailgate.

Next you have Getaway who is shown to be a creepy manipulator figure who has more life experience than Tailgate. Many people would view him as a child predator.

And somehow I'm reading this wrong and I'm the only person who is going to come to these conclusions?

[D-Maximal_Primal]

A) Avatars can be females without that character believing they are female.

B) Roberts would not descend to Pedophile relations. This is a case of someone trying to steal someone else's best friend.

C) You are reading way too deep into this. Tailgate is not meant to be a baby. Nor are transformers depicted as being baby. Just freshly made and cast out, implying rapid acceleration to "adulthood"

Now please cut this crap out. Before you go off again on pedophiles, remember Hasbro would not let that sort of thing in a comic and look at all the violence that is condoned and used in these book, then come back and talk about the violence and how that is far more consistent than love stories

[ZeroWolf]

Exactly, um has used both male and female avatars in the past. Does that mean he's bi? No because despite our opinions tfs (till the camiens arrived) were non-gendered as their species had a different way of producing life (either forged or constructed cold) thus those on cybertron didn't need genders. Though jihaxus thought it would be fun to experiment with arcee. So you're argument about cyclonus doesn't hold weight. Also I don't think of the toon g1 cyclonus in my head, that's a completely different guy to the one on mtmte as far as I'm concerned

[1984forever]

A) Avatars can be females without that character believing they are female.

B) Roberts would not descend to Pedophile relations. This is a case of someone trying to steal someone else's best friend.

C) You are reading way too deep into this. Tailgate is not meant to be a baby. Nor are transformers depicted as being baby. Just freshly made and cast out, implying rapid acceleration to "adulthood"

Now please cut this crap out. Before you go off again on pedophiles, remember Hasbro would not let that sort of thing in a comic and look at all the violence that is condoned and used in these book, then come back and talk about the violence and how that is far more consistent than love stories

Ok, let's talk about the robot violence issue it is less disturbing to people than a wildlife show where animals are ripped to gory shreds. Why? Because like animals, they're not human! Roberts is the one who introduced this level of over the top violence to the public anyway. Ripping out organs is ridiculous because robots are supposed to have mechanical parts. We should be seeing arcing, smoke and fire, not splatter. Eating brains is stupid because metal isn't edible. This is what happens when you stray too far from the source material. The public said the violence had reached a limit when the '86 movie was released, there was no need to take it any further than that.

I wonder if Milne bowed out of this issue to avoid controversy. This could prove to be career ending to some, and disastrous to the brand if someone commits a crime against a child claiming they were influenced by MTMTE.

[D-Maximal_Primal]

A) Avatars can be females without that character believing they are female.

B) Roberts would not descend to Pedophile relations. This is a case of someone trying to steal someone else's best friend.

C) You are reading way too deep into this. Tailgate is not meant to be a baby. Nor are transformers depicted as being baby. Just freshly made and cast out, implying rapid acceleration to "adulthood"

Now please cut this crap out. Before you go off again on pedophiles, remember Hasbro would not let that sort of thing in a comic and look at all the violence that is condoned and used in these book, then come back and talk about the violence and how that is far more consistent than love stories

Ok, let's talk about the robot violence issue it is less disturbing to people than a wildlife show where animals are ripped to gory shreds. Why? Because like animals, they're not human! Roberts is the one who introduced this level of over the top violence to the public anyway. Ripping out organs is ridiculous because robots are supposed to have mechanical parts. We should be seeing arcing, smoke and fire, not splatter. Eating brains is stupid because metal isn't edible. This is what happens when you stray too far from the source material. The public said the violence had reached a limit when the '86 movie was released, there was no need to take it any further than that.

I wonder if Milne bowed out of this issue to avoid controversy. This could prove to be career ending to some, and disastrous to the brand if someone commits a crime against a child claiming they were influenced by MTMTE.

And Because they are not human, things such as love and pedophiles and all that good stuff does not exist either! See, you just completely invalidated all your previous arguments since you say that nothing really matters since they are not human. And the source material is honestly very boring, a skeleton, meant to be expanded upon infinitely.

And besides: they are living beings, sentient living beings. What is wrong with giving them life like characteristics? Energon flows through them as blood does so many other beings. They have organs in the metallic form, not organic like ours. It is making them less like machines and more like sentient beings. And common man, some of the stuff in there (metal not edible, yet in the original comics Unicron ATE everything metal) is completely silly.

And as for that last comment: I highly doubt someone would bow out for a single issue over things like that, and then return for the comic in which it is very prevalent. Common man. And as previously stated, under your argument robots are not humans and therefore most human stuff should not be taken that seriously. Therefore, stop caring, and leave the book to those of us who enjoy it and actually read it rather than troll the forums just to complain about it not being 1984 all over again. Stop reading like you promised eons ago.

[ZeroWolf]

But the problem is that he would be happy if they did leave out the human stuff. It's something he's complained about a lot...and he never bothered to respond to the good arguments.

[ZeroWolf]

EDIT- gah double post

[1984forever]

D-Max, Zero Wolf. Transformers not being human does invalidate things like pedophiia. I am uncomfortable at how MTMTE gives the appearance of pedophiia, and I'm sure other people are too. MTMTE has relationships where the size ratio is 2:1. This size difference is most commonly seen between adults and kids. Even in heterosexual relationships the male is almost never 2x the size of the female.

It looks bad and that's the bottom line here.

[D-Maximal_Primal]

Ok then, if that makes you uncomfortable, ok. that's your opinion.

We were just trying to point out that the size of the transformer should not affect that decision.

[ZeroWolf]

Agreed but don't simply assume the worst in a situation like this. I think James Roberts would be downright shocked with accusations like what you said, unless you had prove the police would pay attention to...

Regardless I think we've gotten this sorted to a point.

[1984forever]

Ok then, if that makes you uncomfortable, ok. that's your opinion.

We were just trying to point out that the size of the transformer should not affect that decision.

it's not just the size. The size difference with Chromedome and Rewind was a little strange at first, but this is easily explained because we know that there are little dudes in Transformers. Then we see the same mismatch in height with Cyclonus/Getaway and Tailgate! Not only is Tailgate naive, but for reasons we can't agree upon, he is depicted as a baby by the holomatter generator. It makes me very suspicious of just what Roberts is trying to show here. It reminds me of the Decepticons with tongues that resemble sex organs in Kiss Players. What was going on there?

There is smoke here, and I believe someone will be forced to spend a lot of time fanning it away.

[ZeroWolf]

The kiss players thing has got more to do with Japan itself. That however is a discussion for another thread as it has no bearing on this

[D-Maximal_Primal]

Yeah, kiss players should be nowhere near related to this. Just nowhere close

And I am with Zero here: Roberts would not try to do this intentionally and Hasbro would notice and put it to a stop. i think this is being taken out of context

[1984forever]

The kiss players thing has got more to do with Japan itself. That however is a discussion for another thread as it has no bearing on this

i feel that Roberts may be trying to convey how he feels about certain situations thru MTMTE. I wanted to know if there was some kind of message or cause being championed by the people behind Kiss Players. I want to know why a writer would feel the need to inject a degree of human sexuality into a toy line comprised of Transformable robots fighting a war?

[D-Maximal_Primal]

The kiss players thing has got more to do with Japan itself. That however is a discussion for another thread as it has no bearing on this

i feel that Roberts may be trying to convey how he feels about certain situations thru MTMTE. I wanted to know if there was some kind of message or cause being championed by the people behind Kiss Players. I want to know why a writer would feel the need to inject a degree of human sexuality into a toy line comprised of Transformable robots fighting a war?

They are sentient, living beings. Why can't they have some feelings or emotions that we share? Besides: They cannot reproduce sexually, so there really isn't anything of that nature coming through (more like inseparable best friends) and since they are no longer at war (more skirmishes and fights while trying to live in peace while others dont want peace) they have the ability to explore more of those emotions.

[ZeroWolf]

Adding relationships allows writers to do more development of the characters. It's been pointed out that there species reproduces in a completely different way. There is no agenda behind Roberts work. Despite how you see it, things don't fall that way.

[1984forever]

Adding relationships allows writers to do more development of the characters. It's been pointed out that there species reproduces in a completely different way. There is no agenda behind Roberts work. Despite how you see it, things don't fall that way.

we now have a whole planet full of Fembots. Why has Roberts chosen to only show Male Transformers in relationships with other males who are half their size?

[D-Maximal_Primal]

Adding relationships allows writers to do more development of the characters. It's been pointed out that there species reproduces in a completely different way. There is no agenda behind Roberts work. Despite how you see it, things don't fall that way.

we now have a whole planet full of Fembots. Why has Roberts chosen to only show Male Transformers in relationships with other males who are half their size?

Because these characters have been around for a long time in his story and he has developed them in this way. the new planets and new females are just new, so no one has really had the ability to get on male/female relationships (though this really shouldn't matter all things included). Plus, while we may have this planet, there are still only a few females showing up, and those that have aren't really best friends enough with someone to be considered in love

[ZeroWolf]

Because despite what we think, and what has been done for our benefit (describing everyone and everything as it is on par with everythone and everything being called marklar,perfectly fine for them, confusing for everyone else), transformers from cybertron (barring two notable exceptions as par their origins: Arcee and Solus Prime) are all genderless. If you have trouble with this concept I would suggest thinking that these comics have been translated from cybertonian with pronouns added to help us.

[1984forever]

I'm not buying these explanations.

Roberts is God in MTMTE, he could have done anything he wanted to. Yet all of his relationships have been same sex and he chooses to give the most panel time to unions that appear visually to be men coupled with boys.