The Energon Pub

Rumble/Frenzy is Blue/Red arguements. That's some weird ass blue you people see. He's purple, otherwise it should be 'that episode with the giant blue griffon'!

Once met a man who though megatron was the leader of the autobots.

from fellow fans...only one thing...hmmm tough one. Probably the hate on Magnus for "I can't deal with that right now." because really, it wasn't his priority to deal with Kup and Hot Rod not being able to fly their ship, it was Kup and Hot Rod's responsibility. Like a good leader Magnus was dealing with more important matters like making sure his ship didn't end up the same way. Half of your force is possibly dead do you a)whine about it? or b)worry about not letting the other half end up the same way?


(lets not forget that he didn't exactly do a great job of what he was trying to do, but at least in the end he was the only one who died, and that was only for about 5minutes thanks to his Incredible Crash Dummy contstruction.)

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:

Fanboy wrote:

alldarker wrote:All those people that think Frenzy is the red tape, and that Rumble is the blue tape, based solely on a cartoon that was rife with coloration (and voice) mistakes, and in blind ignorance of all other proof that in fact Rumble is red and Frenzy is blue. It's insane to think that even people who call themselves Transformers fans still get them mixed up so badly.

but frenzy is bkue and rumble is red did you ever watch the cartoon ?

Toys came first, months before the cartoon. Not just that, I think the comics followed the toy colors more.

.. dammit, I promised myself to stay out the RiRFiB arguments from now on!

Well, then. I've been getting it wrong for a looong time.

Dear me...

"Rumble is Red,
Frenzy is Blue,
The cartoon was wrong,
Don't be wrong too."

Put this in your wallet.

"Rumble is Red,
Frenzy is Blue,
The cartoon was wrong,
Don't be wrong too."

Put this in your wallet.

No. Never.

FWIW re: the colours of Soundwave's little cassette buddies, one of them is purple and one of them is black, so you're all wrong!

Henry921 wrote: Really, Hasbro hasn't been consistent themselves, so I tend to just call them 'red robot' and 'blue robot', and then make jokes about cracking shells.

actually, up untill the recent release's Hasbro was indeed consistent.

When people think there's only one continuity.

When people think Japan puts all Transformers fiction into a single continuity.

When people think the WFC/FOC video games are direct prequels to the G1 cartoon or are G1 continuity family games.

When people think there is one and ONLY ONE true answer/solution to the FIRRIB vs. RIRFIB debates.

When people think the Cybertron cartoon is its own continuity from Armada/Energon (it may have been MADE like that, but that was NOT supposed to happen, and both Hasbro AND Takara--yes TAKARA--have made it clear that it's a sequel with the black hole mucking up reality).

When people think Animated was nothing but kiddie stuff.

When people think Beast Machines was about the idealogy of hippies and tree-huggers.

When people think Beast Wars II and Beast Wars Neo take place in the same "300 years after the Great War" time period that the American Beast Wars cartoon characters hailed from.

When people think Car Robots (not RiD, but its Japanese version) is in its own non-G1 continuity.

When people think Animated's Japanese version was changed into being a prequel to the live action movies.

When people think Barricade appeared in the Revenge of the Fallen movie.

When people think they can mix American and Japanese continuities together and pass the mixture off as canon fact.

When people think the cartoons/movies hold a higher fictional/canonical regard over comics or other media formats.

Oh, and this one's a kicker:

When people think the Beast Wars and Beast Machines cartoons (and their respective BotCon fiction from the time) are in the same continuity as the G1 cartoon.

Sabrblade wrote:
When people think Car Robots (not RiD, but its Japanese version) is in its own non-G1 continuity.

CR2000 is connected gto G1 in Japan?

pkease explain

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:
When people think Car Robots (not RiD, but its Japanese version) is in its own non-G1 continuity.

CR2000 is connected gto G1 in Japan?

pkease explain

You didn't know that?

http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Generation_1_cartoon_timeline_(Japan)

Car Robots was the last series released in Japan before Micron Densetsu (Armada), which was the series that introduced the concept of different continuity families over there. Until Armada came out, no series in Japan was considered to be a separate continuity family from G1.

Car Robots fits into the timeline thanks to a number of factors:

• The above-stated notion of no pre-Armada series being a different continuity family in Japan.
• Supplementary Car Robots catalog material stated that the Destrongers came from the future.
• A vague but still present line of dialogue from Fire Convoy in the cartoon that supported the catalog's statement (this line was apparently the only aspect of the Japanese cartoon that referred to this, as it was ignored in the English dub, which was reworked into its own continuity family as RiD).
• The manga mini-series "Star Gate Sen'neki" ("The Battle of the Star Gate") concluding with a massive battle that rendered the entire cast of G1 Transformers either offline or missing, leaving an opening for the Car Robots cast to come in with little conflict.
• The Japanese Car Robots characters having new names that didn't conflict with existing G1 character names.
• Kiss Players Position and Teletraan-15 Go! Go! establishing and solidifying Car Robots' placement in the year 2000 of the Japanese G1 cartoon continuity timeline, as well as creating the origin of Brave Maximus.
• The United EX fiction dating the creation of the Energon Matrix as 2035, necessitating Fire Convoy and God Magnus to have also come from the future like the Destrongers.

Sabrblade wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:
When people think Car Robots (not RiD, but its Japanese version) is in its own non-G1 continuity.

CR2000 is connected gto G1 in Japan?

pkease explain

You didn't know that?

http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Generation_1_cartoon_timeline_(Japan)

Car Robots was the last series released in Japan before Micron Densetsu (Armada), which was the series that introduced the concept of different continuity families over there. Until Armada came out, no series in Japan was considered to be a separate continuity family from G1.

Car Robots fits into the timeline thanks to a number of factors:

• The above-stated notion of no pre-Armada series being a different continuity family in Japan.
• Supplementary Car Robots catalog material stated that the Destrongers came from the future.
• A vague but still present line of dialogue from Fire Convoy in the cartoon that supported the catalog's statement (this line was apparently the only aspect of the Japanese cartoon that referred to this, as it was ignored in the English dub, which was reworked into its own continuity family as RiD).
• The manga mini-series "Star Gate Sen'neki" ("The Battle of the Star Gate") concluding with a massive battle that rendered the entire cast of G1 Transformers either offline or missing, leaving an opening for the Car Robots cast to come in with little conflict.
• The Japanese Car Robots characters having new names that didn't conflict with existing G1 character names.
• Kiss Players Position and Teletraan-15 Go! Go! establishing and solidifying Car Robots' placement in the year 2000 of the Japanese G1 cartoon continuity timeline, as well as creating the origin of Brave Maximus.
• The United EX fiction dating the creation of the Energon Matrix as 2035, necessitating Fire Convoy and God Magnus to have also come from the future like the Destrongers.

Next time, just say "Ever since the great TakaraTomy retcon of 2007". That's also how Galaxy Force got turned into a sequel of Superlink again (like Cybertron has always been to Energon), instead of its own series.

Sabrblade wrote:Loooads of things

It said ONE thing, quit being greedy

Sabrblade wrote:You didn't know that?

I only heard of rumors and had knowlidge of how Takara has tried to link many different continuities.But I never got "reliable" confermation that the intent was to have CR's linked to J-G1 toon.

as to your list

[*]The above-stated notion of no pre-Armada series being a different continuity family in Japan.

how is a "notion" evidence of a connection?

[*]Supplementary Car Robots catalog material stated that the Destrongers came from the future.

how is coming from the future evidence of a connection?

[*]A vague but still present line of dialogue from Fire Convoy in the cartoon that supported the catalog's statement


what was this line, and did it confirm a connection or confirm they are time travellers?

[*]The manga mini-series "Star Gate Sen'neki" ("The Battle of the Star Gate") concluding with a massive battle that rendered the entire cast of G1 Transformers either offline or missing, leaving an opening for the Car Robots cast to come in with little conflict.

what do you consider little conflict?Also, what year would that battle have taken place in?

[*]Kiss Players Position and Teletraan-15 Go! Go! establishing and solidifying Car Robots' placement in the year 2000 of the Japanese G1 cartoon continuity timeline, as well as creating the origin of Brave Maximus.

to me this presents a great conflict with J-G1 Headmasters.

I looked up what you posted above tf tf Wiki-states that Brave Max did not migrate from Cybertron with the others that he came from the futures/other dimension and landed on planet master.

The Headmaster cartoon tells a different story,Max was known on Cybertron in the past, which is confirmed by Kup.

[*]The United EX fiction dating the creation of the Energon Matrix as 2035, necessitating Fire Convoy and God Magnus to have also come from the future like the Destrongers.

Energon Matrix?

BTW, I was under the impression that takara originally wanted Armada to be part of G1 as well.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:how is a "notion" evidence of a connection?

*Everything* in Japan was connected to the G1 cartoon in some form before Armada came along.

Armada was the first series released in Japan that was explicitly non-G1. Before it came along, no series in Japan was seen as not being a part of the G1 continuity family (which the G1 cartoon formed the core of for them).

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:how is coming from the future evidence of a connection?

See above.

Also, the catalog mentioned Fire Convoy's team as being a "Dimensional Patrol".

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:what was this line, and did it confirm a connection or confirm they are time travellers?

I think it was something like Fire Convoy saying he would follow Gigatron wherever he went, "even if it's to the edge of the universe". That kinda-sorta fit in with his team being a "Dimensional Patrol", but like I said, it's pretty vague despite being the only piece related to the cast having come from another era.

Because the line was so vague, and the subject itself not really emphasized in the cartoon, Saban pretty much ignored all of it and instead dubbed RiD as a new continuity family.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:what do you consider little conflict?Also, what year would that battle have taken place in?

By "little conflict", I mean without intruding upon what had come before & after the year 2000 of the story's timeline.

As for the battle itself, it took place in the late 1990s.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:to me this presents a great conflict with J-G1 Headmasters.

I looked up what you posted above tf tf Wiki-states that Brave Max did not migrate from Cybertron with the others that he came from the futures/other dimension and landed on planet master.

The Headmaster cartoon tells a different story,Max was known on Cybertron in the past, which is confirmed by Kup.

Brave Max and Japanese Fort Max aren't the same guy. Brave Max was created on Earth in ancient times by Primus to be a guardian watching over Unicron's dormant Angolmois energy.

Gigatron and his Destrongers came to 21st Century Earth in the year 2000 to seek him out and seize his power (as shown in the cartoon).

After the transporting the Destrongers away to be imprisoned at the end of the cartoon, Brave Max returned on Earth after the cartoon, he was used to form the core of Autobot City when construction of it began in 2003. By 2007, he was being used by the Kiss Players singing group as part of a goodwill campaign to repair the ill relations between humans and Transformers that had waned during events in 2006. During this year, events involving Brave Max, the Kiss Players, and the Sparkbots sent the group on a time-traveling adventure that eventually led to an accident that scattered all members across time and space. Brave Max wound up four million years in the past, crash-landing on Planet Master. His planetfall was observed by the locals, and their leader, Fortress, used Brave Maximus' technology to refine his own "Headmaster", leading him to create the Transtectors and his own Battleship Maximus.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:Energon Matrix?

The lesser Matrices possessed by Japanese Optimus Primal, Lio Convoy, Big Convoy, Fire Convoy, and maybe God Magnus.

http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Energon_Matrix

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:BTW, I was under the impression that takara originally wanted Armada to be part of G1 as well.

The most I can find on this is this old Hasbro Q&A question asked twice by TFWiki:

The July 2003 issue of the magazine NewType USA contained an article on the then-upcoming Armada series, and featured an interview with the Japanese director of Armada, one Hidehito Ueda. According to the preamble of the interview, and we quote:

"In the beginning, Transformers Armada was planned as a sequel to The Rebirth, the last three-part Transformers episode shown in America featuring the Autobots and Decepticons, but later, partially because of Hasbro, it was produced as a completely new series."

Is this statement true? Was Armada originally conceived as a follow-up to the original Transformers cartoon?

To which Hasbro couldn't provide an answer, each time (in other words, they don't know).

I wouldn't be surprised if the Japanese director originally thought of it as being such before knowing more of what the story would actually entail, since as I said above, there were no non-G1 continuity family series in Japan before Armada came along. But as the final product shows, such initial speculations from the director (if they existed) didn't come to fruition in the end.

Sabrblade wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:how is a "notion" evidence of a connection?

*Everything* in Japan was connected to the G1 cartoon in some form before Armada came along.

Armada was the first series released in Japan that was explicitly non-G1. Before it came along, no series in Japan was seen as not being a part of the G1 continuity family (which the G1 cartoon formed the core of for them).

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:how is coming from the future evidence of a connection?

See above.

your reply didnt answer the question.

Also, the catalog mentioned Fire Convoy's team as being a "Dimensional Patrol".

still not seeing evidence of a narrative connection.

I think it was something like Fire Convoy saying he would follow Gigatron wherever he went, "even if it's to the edge of the universe". That kinda-sorta fit in with his team being a "Dimensional Patrol", but like I said, it's pretty vague despite being the only piece related to the cast having come from another era.

I dont see how that is evidence of a G1 connection

By "little conflict", I mean without intruding upon what had come before & after the year 2000 of the story's timeline.

As for the battle itself, it took place in the late 1990s.

then I see some conflicts

Brave Max and Japanese Fort Max aren't the same guy.......

thanks for the corrected info.

The lesser Matrices possessed by Japanese Optimus Primal, Lio Convoy, Big Convoy, Fire Convoy, and maybe God Magnus.

so at some poiint, Optimus possed 2 types of Matrices?

The most I can find on this is this old Hasbro Q&A

thats pretty much what I recall.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:your reply didnt answer the question.

still not seeing evidence of a narrative connection.

I dont see how that is evidence of a G1 connection

Nor is there any evidence of a narrative disconnection.What more do you want aside from "Micron Densetsu was the first non-G1 series in Japan"?

The guy who wrote the 2006-2007 Kiss Players toyline even clarified that (via personal consultation w/ Hydra):

Hydra wrote:Incidentally, I got in touch with the creator of the KissPlayers era Japanese timeline.
Car Robots was defined as being set in the G1 timeline with both factions from the future because:
*Until the Unicron Trilogy, no series released in Japan clearly identified itself as an alternate continuity.
*The Destrongers were clearly stated to be from the future in supplemental materials, but
the Cybertrons were determined to be from the future for 2 reasons:
1. The presence of an Energon Matrix
2. The fact that the Spychangers were described as a new generation of TF's in the G1 GoBots profile.

-Hydra

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:then I see some conflicts

Like what? The battle of the Star Gate made all the G1 guys (and then some) go MIA for several years, leaving Earth free and clean of TFs for the CR cast to come in during the year 2000.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:so at some poiint, Optimus possed 2 types of Matrices?

o_O

Sabrblade wrote:Nor is there any evidence of a narrative disconnection.What more do you want

a clear and direct connection from within the story.

Like what? The battle of the Star Gate made all the G1 guys (and then some) go MIA for several years, leaving Earth free and clean of TFs for the CR cast to come in during the year 2000.

I should have said "possible" conflict

Gregory Swofford, appeared to be roughly Spikes age or just a bit older when he was injured in the fight Optimus had with Megatron.

Which, again by appearance, must have taken place between the very late 90's and 2002

which would be the time that Prime and Megs are missing based on what you told me.

o_O

never mind, i MISS READ SOMETHING

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:a clear and direct connection from within the story.

Well, you're not gonna get it since it was written as a self-contained adventure. It was only in post-CR fiction that the connection was made more explicit.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:I should have said "possible" conflict

Gregory Swofford, appeared to be roughly Spikes age or just a bit older when he was injured in the fight Optimus had with Megatron.

Which, again by appearance, must have taken place between the very late 90's and 2002

which would be the time that Prime and Megs are missing based on what you told me.

Don't forget that season 3 took place in 2010 in Japanese continuity, meaning Spike and Daniel looked exactly the same 2005 as they did in 2010 and 2011 (Daniel, however, gets an excuse in that he was put in suspended animation after an accident).

You really think the animators at AKOM (who were already working with a lower quality than Toei) would have bothered to draw a younger-looking Gregory Swofford for a less-than-20-second flashback that he was barely even shown in?

It's no different than how "Fire in the Sky" drew pre-Earth Starscream having his F-15 altmode, "The Secret of Omega Supreme" drew the pre-Earth Constructicons with their Earth altmodes, etc. etc.

I did forget about trhe 2010 issue, I'm slipping, must be all the recent surgeries and meds.

Three more things.

When people think the G1 cartoon was the first piece of Transformers fiction ever, coming before all else and pretty much being the foundation on which all post-1980's TF fiction was inspired by.

When people think Car Robots was officially also called "Transformers 2000".

And this next one has kind of made me infamous, as anyone who reads the Twincast Podcast pages or listens to the podcast itself would know this (since the latter has playfully poked fun at me for it).

When people mispronounce names/terms.

"Bumblebee shouldn't talk! he never did before animated! Glad they fixed him."


RAGE

BeastProwl wrote:"Bumblebee shouldn't talk! he never did before animated! Glad they fixed him."


RAGE

You're mad Animated gave him a voice?

Sabrblade wrote:When people think the G1 cartoon was the first piece of Transformers fiction ever, coming before all else and pretty being the foundation on which all post-1980's TF fiction was inspired by.

this bugs me too

Sabrblade wrote:

BeastProwl wrote:"Bumblebee shouldn't talk! he never did before animated! Glad they fixed him."


RAGE

You're mad Animated gave him a voice?

I'm mad some people think Bumblebee made his first ever appearance in 2007, and let me tell you, there are quite a few. Some people think Bumblebee never spoke before Animated. Some people are really misguided.